Once saved, always saved is a myth.

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JunChosen

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To All Who Believe OSAS Is A Myth!!

Scripture stipulates: "The wages of sin (singular) is death." Romans 6:23.
By this statement, we are told that it only takes one sin to send a person to hell.
In order to understand the Bible, we must understand it's doctrine and how to interpret it's meaning.

By the way, does anyone know that our salvation is a two part salvific?
Romans 7:14-25 reads:
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that [it is] good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

John 1:11-13 reads....
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

1 John 3:9 reads....
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

OSAS is a true statement!!! Once our Lord Jesus redeems/ransoms the sins of a person he CANNOT lose his salvation because all of his sins have been paid for by Jesus on the cross.

John 10 27-28 reads:
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father’s hand.
30 I and [my] Father are one.

To God Be The Glory
 

MatthewG

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To All Who Believe OSAS Is A Myth!!

Scripture stipulates: "The wages of sin (singular) is death." Romans 6:23.
By this statement, we are told that it only takes one sin to send a person to hell.
In order to understand the Bible, we must understand it's doctrine and how to interpret it's meaning.

By the way, does anyone know that our salvation is a two part salvific?
Romans 7:14-25 reads:
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that [it is] good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

John 1:11-13 reads....
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

1 John 3:9 reads....
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

OSAS is a true statement!!! Once our Lord Jesus redeems/ransoms the sins of a person he CANNOT lose his salvation because all of his sins have been paid for by Jesus on the cross.

John 10 27-28 reads:
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father’s hand.
30 I and [my] Father are one.

To God Be The Glory

You have decided to leave out bible scriptures pertaining to people walking away from the faith all together. While you are free to believe what you believe, it’s a disservice to your fellow people to not include those things.

”For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: but that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.“
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6‬:‭4‬-‭8‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 

MatthewG

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There is only one sin that is unforgivable.

”Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: but he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:“
‭‭Mark‬ ‭3‬:‭28‬-‭29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

”He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad. Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.“
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭12‬:‭30‬-‭32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

”but he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the angels of God. And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.“
‭‭Luke‬ ‭12‬:‭9‬-‭10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus speaks of how this sin, is not forgiven in this life or in the age “world” to come (in the afterlife.)
 

MatthewG

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When it comes to study it’s important to consider what Jesus and the writers of the Bible say, while one person can show you one portion you could be missing a portion which you may really rather do without, but without both portions there is no fulfillment in understanding and growing and progressing in the matters concerning Heavenly matters, or weights one could say.
 

Taken

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@Taken, I just simply desire to know the question, how is a person once saved, and always saved?

* Believe IN YOUR HEART…
* Call on the Lord, CONFESS your sorrow for when you DID NOT believe in YOUR HEART.
* Confess you ARE Willing to Freely GIVE your bodily LIFE unto DEATH for your Belief and Love of God.


THEN…does the Lord God SEARCH your Heart, that YOUR CONFESSION BE TRUE…

“IF” it be TRUE…RIGHT then YOU BECOME Forgiven for your SIN of having HAD disbelief IN the Lord God….RIGHT then your SOUL IS MADE SAVED….RIGHT then your SPIRIT made born again of Gods SEED, by the Power of God….AND the Lords Spirit of Truth shall dwell WITH and IN you all the days of your life and YOU SHALL dwell WITH and IN Christ the Lord all the day of your life…
Ie OSAS.

A man WiTH and IN Christ the Lord….IS a Converted Believer….and WITH the Lord God FOREVER.

A man who simply believes, can stop any time.
 

Taken

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Yep,,,,,,how about that guy who SAYS WITH HIS MOUTH, before Witnesses HE Believes IN his Heart, IN the Lord God…..but Doesn’t?

Men will believe him….but the All Knowing God will know He has LIED to the Holy Spirit.
 

Taken

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Yup. Pathetic that you discard the words of God in favor of manmade doctrine.

If OSAS was true, Jesus would have no need to tell anyone "go and sin no more" …

Uh … Jesus was still on EARTH…
What Jesus SAID was TRUE….but men STILL had to WAIT to receive the HOLY SPIRIT ….
AFTER Jesus ascended BACK UP TO HEAVEN.
 

MatthewG

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Thank you for sharing that with me, @Taken.

There are many things here that I agree with you on. Such as a person who believes from the heart, and they believe that Yahavah resides in them, and understands that God does dwell in them, they continue to have a relationship. Becoming forgiven of sin by virture of the blood of the Lord Yeshua, and a person becomes saved unto the Kingdom of Heaven. They are given the holy spirit, and the spirit of Christ to help them in their life.

The only thing I would not agree on is, that it's any individual can choose to walk away from Yahavah. If Angels were able to do it, so are human beings, even Satan chose his choice by desiring darkness rather than light. There is no way to say it's permanent except to those who are from the heart having faith in the life, death, burial, and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ (that is a continous ongoing belief - that doesn't mean a person who doubts is not dwelled by God, it's just this ongoing belief that God exist.)

Of course there are those who do not know the Lord Jesus Christ, by that name, and only know Yahavah by his creation, they to can receive the holy spirit, and the spirit of Christ, because of what Jesus has done, by deciding to seek out God, who rewards those who seek him.

Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

Psalm 19:1 The heavens proclaim the glory of God. The skies display his craftsmanship.

There are many who reject, even believers who can become choked out by the world. Yahavah will search the hearts of all people. The Lord Jesus also spoke on this matter.

Mark Chapter 4

Parable of the Sower and Soils​

4 Again He began to teach by the sea. And such a very large crowd gathered to Him that He got into a boat on the sea and sat down; and the whole crowd was by the sea on the land. 2 And He was teaching them many things in parables, and was saying to them in His teaching, 3 “Listen to this! Behold, the sower went out to sow; 4 as he was sowing, some seed fell beside the road, and the birds came and ate it up. 5 Other seed fell on the rocky ground where it did not have much soil; and immediately it sprang up because it had no depth of soil. 6 And when the sun had risen, it was scorched; and because it had no root, it withered away. 7 Other seed fell among the thorns, and the thorns came up and choked it, and it yielded no crop. 8 Other seeds fell into the good soil, and as they grew up and increased, they yielded a crop and produced thirty, sixty, and a hundred times as much.” 9 And He was saying, “He who has ears to hear, [a]let him hear.”

10 As soon as He was alone, [b]His followers, along with the twelve disciples, began asking Him about the parables. 11 And He was saying to them, “To you has been given the mystery of the kingdom of God, but for those who are outside, everything comes in parables, 12 so that while seeing they may see, and not perceive, and while hearing, they may hear, and not understand, otherwise they might return and it would be forgiven them.”

Explanation of the Parable​

13 And He *said to them, “Do you not understand this parable? How will you understand all the parables? 14 The sower sows the word. 15 These are the ones who are beside the road where the word is sown; and when they hear, immediately Satan comes and takes away the word which has been sown in them. 16 And in a similar way these are the ones sown with seed on the rocky places, who, when they hear the word, immediately receive it with joy; 17 and yet they have no firm root in themselves, but are only temporary; then, when affliction or persecution occurs because of the word, immediately they [c]fall away. 18 And others are the ones sown with seed among the thorns; these are the ones who have heard the word, 19 but the worries of the [d]world, and the deceitfulness of wealth, and the desires for other things enter and choke the word, and it [e]becomes unfruitful. 20 And those are the ones sown with seed on the good soil; and they hear the word and accept it and bear fruit, thirty, sixty, and a hundred times as much.”
 

BlessedPeace

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@BlessedPeace, will you answer my question on post 228.
Because when Jesus cant reach you with his Gospel, and you in fact deny its truth by using scripture to bolster that position,I wisely defer to Jesus' words . No one comes to him unless they are able to hear his words.
 
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Taken

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Thank you for sharing that with me, @Taken.

There are many things here that I agree with you on. Such as a person who believes from the heart, and they believe that Yahavah resides in them, and understands that God does dwell in them, they continue to have a relationship. Becoming forgiven of sin by virture of the blood of the Lord Yeshua, and a person becomes saved unto the Kingdom of Heaven. They are given the holy spirit, and the spirit of Christ to help them in their life.

The only thing I would not agree on is, that it's any individual can choose to walk away from Yahavah. If Angels were able to do it, so are human beings, even Satan chose his choice by desiring darkness rather than light. There is no way to say it's permeant except to those who are from the heart having faith in the life, death, burial, and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ.


When a man by his own TRUE Heartful WORD Promises his own bodily LIFE unto DEATH….(called crucified with Christ)….

Your BODY is instantly ACCOUNTED DEAD.
ACCOUNTED IN the Lambs book of Life.
You there after LIVE YOUR LIFE … ‘IN” Christ Jesus’ RISEN BODY…(until your own body is RAISED in its own Glorified, sinless, holy body)

Mean time….ONCE you have crucified your BODY with Christ……with what BODY do you then suppose you can WALK AWAY FROM CHRIST?
Your DEAD BODY?
IN Christ’s Body?

That phrase….”IN” Christ (spoken some 78 ties in the New Testament ….literally means “IN” Christ., and reveals it Consequence for BEING IN Christ….such as:

Rom 8:
[2] For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Once Consequence for BEING “IN” Christ….
Free from the law of sin and death.

BTW….every individual has freewill to CHOOSE or REJECT the Lord God…
AND
So do Angels have the SAME Freewill Choice.

God does not WANT anyone with HIM, who is AGAINST Him……any more than you want your home filled with people against you.
 

MatthewG

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There are people who will say they were chosen and elected by God, even in the bible it is suggested that they could end up falling away. So I do not know what to think, @BlessedPeace.
 

MatthewG

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When a man by his own TRUE Heartful WORD Promises his own bodily LIFE unto DEATH….(called crucified with Christ)….

Romans 6:3-11
3 Or have you forgotten that when we were joined with Christ Jesus in baptism, we joined him in his death? 4 For we died and were buried with Christ by baptism. And just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glorious power of the Father, now we also may live new lives.

5 Since we have been united with him in his death, we will also be raised to life as he was. 6 We know that our old sinful selves were crucified with Christ so that sin might lose its power in our lives. We are no longer slaves to sin. 7 For when we died with Christ we were set free from the power of sin. 8 And since we died with Christ, we know we will also live with him. 9 We are sure of this because Christ was raised from the dead, and he will never die again. Death no longer has any power over him. 10 When he died, he died once to break the power of sin. But now that he lives, he lives for the glory of God. 11 So you also should consider yourselves to be dead to the power of sin and alive to God through Christ Jesus.
Your BODY is instantly ACCOUNTED DEAD.
ACCOUNTED IN the Lambs book of Life.
Not so sure if my name is in the Lambs book of life for sure, there was mention in the old testament, and in the new testament about peoples names already being written in it. Do not know if that fully pertains to us or not or them then.
You there after LIVE YOUR LIFE … ‘IN” Christ Jesus’ RISEN BODY…(until your own body is RAISED in its own Glorified, sinless, holy body)
Yes, a person who is spiritually awaken now has relationship with Yahavah, and starts off as a babe in Christ, and grows into a son or daughter of God, the more they mature from the milk, and the meat of the word. Then a new spiritual body is given at the end of life, which is either of resurrection of life, or a better resurrection. Non-believers, resurrection of condemnation.
Mean time….ONCE you have crucified your BODY with Christ……with what BODY do you then suppose you can WALK AWAY FROM CHRIST?
Your DEAD BODY?
IN Christ’s Body?
The Flesh, by the mind/will/emotion of the soul which operates the body.
That phrase….”IN” Christ (spoken some 78 ties in the New Testament ….literally means “IN” Christ., and reveals it Consequence for BEING IN Christ….such as:
Just as close to gay as one can get. I do not mean gay in a bad way.
Rom 8:
[2] For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Once Consequence for BEING “IN” Christ….
Free from the law of sin and death.
Okay.
BTW….every individual has freewill to CHOOSE or REJECT the Lord God…
AND
Okay. That has been what the whole conversation has been about the whole time.
So do Angels have the SAME Freewill Choice.
Okay.
God does not WANT anyone with HIM, who is AGAINST Him……any more than you want your home filled with people against you.
God loves those who do not want him in their life, and allows them the ability to not incorporate him into their life.
 

MatthewG

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People who heard the words of Jesus, after following: left him, @BlessedPeace.

John 6

Words to the Disciples

59 These things He said in the synagogue as He taught in Capernaum.

60 So then many of His disciples, when they heard this, said, “This statement is very [k]unpleasant; who can listen to it?” 61 But Jesus, aware that His disciples were complaining about this, said to them, “Is this [l]offensive to you? 62 What then if you see the Son of Man ascending to where He was before? 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh provides no benefit; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit, and are life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was who would [m]betray Him. 65 And He was saying, “For this reason I have told you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.”


Peter’s Confession of Faith

66 As a result of this many of His disciples left, and would no longer walk with Him. 67 So Jesus said to the twelve, “You do not want to leave also, do you?” 68 Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life. 69 And we have already believed and have come to know that You are the Holy One of God.” 70 Jesus answered them, “Did I Myself not choose you, the twelve? And yet one of you is a devil.” 71 Now He meant Judas the son of Simon Iscariot; for he, one of the twelve, [n]was going to betray Him.
 

BlessedPeace

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When a man by his own TRUE Heartful WORD Promises his own bodily LIFE unto DEATH….(called crucified with Christ)….

Your BODY is instantly ACCOUNTED DEAD.
ACCOUNTED IN the Lambs book of Life.
You there after LIVE YOUR LIFE … ‘IN” Christ Jesus’ RISEN BODY…(until your own body is RAISED in its own Glorified, sinless, holy body)

Mean time….ONCE you have crucified your BODY with Christ……with what BODY do you then suppose you can WALK AWAY FROM CHRIST?
Your DEAD BODY?
IN Christ’s Body?

That phrase….”IN” Christ (spoken some 78 ties in the New Testament ….literally means “IN” Christ., and reveals it Consequence for BEING IN Christ….such as:

Rom 8:
[2] For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Once Consequence for BEING “IN” Christ….
Free from the law of sin and death.

BTW….every individual has freewill to CHOOSE or REJECT the Lord God…
AND
So do Angels have the SAME Freewill Choice.

God does not WANT anyone with HIM, who is AGAINST Him……any more than you want your home filled with people against you.
This might help understand where the errant doctrines arise from.

 

MatthewG

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Thank you for participating in the subject matter @BlessedPeace. Perhaps you are someone who sees me as a person who is a liar, or a heretic or other matters. Who knows really, but I hope and pray your fellowship is with the Father and with the Son of God, and may you and your family be blessed. It's okay for people to just admit, that they disagree with each other but continue to encourage one another in the Lord. Just desirous to share things which are mentioned in the bible in order for people to view and decide for their ownselves.


Some people believe in the inability of ever letting go of God, and I get that, and may none of the faithful people who are actively having a good relationship with the living LORD by and through the spirit, but may those who are having troubles, doubts, trails from the world continue to hold on to the Lord Yeshua, who pulls us above the waters which try to drown us out. Sometimes the world can try to pull and drag people away from the Lord and it's just a true struggle between the individual and their self.

May all those on this board realize, that I do not doubt any of you of being a faithful believer in the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ, - some may not believe like I do as far as Jesus returning already that is fine - but over all the importance is to encourage one another while today is called today, and let not the heart of deceitfulness, get us into a heart of unbelief.


Hebrews 3:
12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but [a]exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, 15 while it is said:

“Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.”
 

JunChosen

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When it comes to study it’s important to consider what Jesus and the writers of the Bible say, while one person can show you one portion you could be missing a portion which you may really rather do without, but without both portions there is no fulfillment in understanding and growing and progressing in the matters concerning Heavenly matters, or weights one could say.
There is only one sin that is unforgivable.

”Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: but he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:“
‭‭Mark‬ ‭3‬:‭28‬-‭29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

”He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad. Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.“
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭12‬:‭30‬-‭32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

”but he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the angels of God. And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.“
‭‭Luke‬ ‭12‬:‭9‬-‭10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus speaks of how this sin, is not forgiven in this life or in the age “world” to come (in the afterlife.)
And what is this unforgivable sin? How do you understand what it is?
 
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