What was wrong with Adam and Eve knowing good and evil?

[Phil .]

I appreciate your perspective, Aunty Jane, but it's just not mine. I believe the Genesis account is mythical - a spiritual lesson - not literal in the slightest.

When it’s seen just how simple & literal it is, it’s seen in wonder, tears, and more love than any one could handle. Crushing, devastating, undeniable, infinitely limitless humbling love.

The Fall was inevitable because this is what it means to be human.

If you believe you are a human, that’s circular logic.

If they hadn't fallen right off the bat, they would have fallen the next week, next day or next year.

That assumption is the overlooking of what’s said (in the Bible).

There was no possibility from the moment of creation that humans with free will would not fall. It was not only inevitable but the only way they could ever enter into genuine communion with God. To remain ignorant of Good and Evil is to be less than human.

Post a picture of this ‘free will’, since you’re so sure you have ‘it’.
To believe one is “the knower”, which “knows there is good & evil” - is the ignorance.
To assert this is profound arrogance.

 

[Webers_Home]

~
FAQ: According to Rom 5:12, Adam's entire posterity became joint principals
with him in the act of tasting the forbidden fruit. Does that include Christ?

REPLY: Yes.

FAQ: Didn't Jesus virgin birth isolate him from Adam?

REPLY: Mary wasn't Jesus' surrogate mother. He was conceived in her womb
rather than implanted. Also, Jesus was David's biological descendant rather
than David's adopted descendant. (Ps 132:11, Acts 2:29-30, & Rom 1:3) So
if David and Mary descended from Adam, then so did Jesus due to his being
their biological offspring.

FAQ: But the Bible says Adam's sin became everyone's sin. How then can
1Pet 1:19 honestly say Jesus was a lamb without blemish or spot?

REPLY: Jesus committed no personal sins of his own to answer for. (John
8:29, 2Cor 5:21, Heb 4:15, 1Pet 2:22)

FAQ: Wasn't Adam's act a hell-worthy sin?

REPLY: The retribution for that particular sin is limited to mortality; nothing
else. (Gen 2:16-17)

FAQ: But if Adam started out with immortality, how then was it possible for
him to end up dead?

REPLY: Immortality and eternal life are not the same. Immortality can be
washed out, whereas eternal life is indelible; so to speak.
_

 

[Ronald Nolette]

and they are ...?

6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I doubt they ate something. Even today in America we still talk like that. I might say such a thing that you're asking me to do is hard to swallow. And it often does not mean eating something.

Why do you doubt? what extra biblical evidence have you obtained to say it was not a piece of fruit or whatever?

 

[Phil .]

Why do you doubt? what extra biblical evidence have you obtained to say it was not a piece of fruit or whatever?

Doubt is an emotion, not an action.

“You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.'"

"Adam lived a total of 930 years..”


Perhaps if you attempt to go eat from a tree of the knowledge of good & evil, you’ll not find it to be like going to eat from an apple tree, and see the metaphorical aspect.

To eat, biblically, means to focus on, believe, and in that sense consume or make a part of you as it were. Like the difference between walking by an apple tree and an apple not being a part of you… vs eating of the apple tree, and believing in ‘knowing there is, and what & who is, good & evil’. “You will surely die” does not mean in any physical sense. It’s metaphorical. (Adam lived 930 years).

 

[Aunty Jane]

It’s actually very, very , very simple. It’s just how simple it is which seems to be complex.

Don’t. Judge.

Which means… don’t believe ‘you know’, there is good and evil. (The knowledge of good & evil).

It’s so simple, straightforward, clear & direct.

I wonder how many other people believe as you do Phil? You seem to be off on a distant planet with alien thoughts that you promote as absolute truth.....are there other people on your planet?

You speak a language and use terms that no one else understands......

Infinitude.

What appears to forget, forgets by appearing.

What on earth does that even mean?

 

[Phil .]

I wonder how many other people believe as you do Phil?

That there are not good & bad people is not a belief and is in accordance with the Bible.

That there are good & bad people is a belief which is not supported by the Bible.

You seem to be off on a distant planet with alien thoughts that you promote as absolute truth.....are there other people on your planet?

Thank you for thinking of me, but the judgement is felt directly.
Heaven is within you.

You speak a language and use terms that no one else understands......

What on earth does that even mean?

What was it like, being born?
Not seeing a baby born - being born?

Have you any memory or frame of reference whatsoever of you beginning?

Not pictures, stories & VHS tapes - have you any actual direct experience of being born or having been born?

The truth is not surprisingly related to honesty & integrity.

 

[Webers_Home]

~
● Gen 3:2-3 . . The woman replied to the serpent: We may eat of the fruit of
the other trees of the garden. It is only about fruit of the tree in the middle
of the garden that God said: You shall not eat of it or touch it, lest you die.

Is that really what God said? No, that's not what God said. He forbade Adam
eating the fruit, yes; but said nothing about touching it. (Gen 2:16-17)

The woman failed to quote God verbatim, rather, she interpreted what He
said. Apparently, in her mind's eye, the ban on eating the fruit implied not
touching it. Consequently; her humanistic reasoning put a spin on God's
instructions so that instead of following them to the letter, the woman
revised them to mean something that God didn't really say.

The woman fell prey to a very human weakness: that of not only
interpreting God, but also of a tendency to embellish His instructions and
make them more cumbersome and more strict than they really are.
_

 

[Peterlag]

Why do you doubt? what extra biblical evidence have you obtained to say it was not a piece of fruit or whatever?

I said I doubt. I did not say anything about extra biblical evidence that I have.

 

[Aunty Jane]

That there are not good & bad people is not a belief and is in accordance with the Bible.

That there are good & bad people is a belief which is not supported by the Bible.

So the judgment passed on the people of Noah's day, or those in Sodom and Gomorrah, and even those whom God punished in the wilderness, are just figments of the Bible writer's imagination? Was Moses just a figment too? If he recorded those things and they are not true....then God is a liar because he inspired scripture....you appear to deny it, or to give it some very strange 'otherworldly' meaning.

I have tried to reread your statements, but nothing registers with what I know from many years of Bible study.

Thank you for thinking of me, but the judgement is felt directly.
Heaven is within you.

Heaven is where God resides.....if you are speaking of Jesus' statement to the Pharisees, then you have misread it.
"The kingdom of God is in your midst" is what he said, correctly translated.
Since the Pharisees were the ones addressed, and Jesus condemned them to "gehenna" (everlasting death) he would never have told them that their wicked hearts was a place for the Kingdom of God. (Matt 15:7-9)
They had the king of God's kingdom right there "in their midst" and they failed to identify him because he did not fit their model of what the Messiah should be.

What was it like, being born?
Not seeing a baby born - being born?

Have you any memory or frame of reference whatsoever of you beginning?

Not pictures, stories & VHS tapes - have you any actual direct experience of being born or having been born?

Strangely I do have vivid recollections of my birth. I had a recurring dream as a child and it continued on into my teens and it was like a nightmare but I could not describe it......then I happened to read of those who had a difficult birth reliving their birth experience.....the dream was not something I could relate to anything in my life, but when I read that and asked my mother if my birth was a difficult one, she told me that the umbilical cord was around my neck, which was choking me with each contraction....that is what fitted the dream exactly, and I never had it again.

The truth is not surprisingly related to honesty & integrity.

Again your statements make no sense.....you sound like you have your very own religion.....does anyone share it? If not then you are not a Christian, because Jesus never taught what you claim to believe.....are you the only one who believes what you seem to want others to accept? There is nothing I find remotely acceptable...sorry.

 

[Phil .]

So the judgment passed on the people of Noah's day, or those in Sodom and Gomorrah, and even those whom God punished in the wilderness, are just figments of the Bible writer's imagination? Was Moses just a figment too? If he recorded those things and they are not true....then God is a liar because he inspired scripture....you appear to deny it, or to give it some very strange 'otherworldly' meaning.

Passing judgement doesn’t equate to there being good & bad people.

I have tried to reread your statements, but nothing registers with what I know from many years of Bible study.

The casual reference to nothing is the overlooking of the actuality referred to.
Put another way, you don’t know what nothing is, yet refer to nothing as if nothing were something, which isn’t registering with “what you know”.
If you have any more questions feel free.

Heaven is where God resides.....if you are speaking of Jesus' statement to the Pharisees, then you have misread it.
"The kingdom of God is in your midst" is what he said, correctly translated.
Since the Pharisees were the ones addressed, and Jesus condemned them to "gehenna" (everlasting death) he would never have told them that their wicked hearts was a place for the Kingdom of God. (Matt 15:7-9)
They had the king of God's kingdom right there "in their midst" and they failed to identify him because he did not fit their model of what the Messiah should be.

Within you & in your midst are different ways of saying it’s this.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Doubt is an emotion, not an action.

“You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.'"

"Adam lived a total of 930 years..”


Perhaps if you attempt to go eat from a tree of the knowledge of good & evil, you’ll not find it to be like going to eat from an apple tree, and see the metaphorical aspect.

To eat, biblically, means to focus on, believe, and in that sense consume or make a part of you as it were. Like the difference between walking by an apple tree and an apple not being a part of you… vs eating of the apple tree, and believing in ‘knowing there is, and what & who is, good & evil’. “You will surely die” does not mean in any physical sense. It’s metaphorical. (Adam lived 930 years).

Sorry Phil, but all forms of the verb akai mean to literally consume or physically eat.

Now whether the fruit if that tree actually endowed one with the knowledge of deciding right from wrong or not can be debated. This was a test of obedience for Adam and Eve,

And the Hebrew about dying means "in dying you shall die". Adam did die that day- He died spiritually as declared in Ephesians that we are dead in opr trespasses and sins.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I said I doubt. I did not say anything about extra biblical evidence that I have.

So you doubt based on zero evidence that it could be real fruit or not? Every normal doubt is brought about by some conflicting evidence to the fact stated. So you are just doubting to doubt?

 

[Phil .]

Sorry Phil, but all forms of the verb akai mean to literally consume or physically eat.

Simply get in the car, drive to a tree of knowledge of good & evil, and eat. It’ll get clearer I promise.

Now whether the fruit if that tree actually endowed one with the knowledge of deciding right from wrong or not can be debated. This was a test of obedience for Adam and Eve,

It’s simply self-inherent. One would no more reasonably debate holding one’s hand on a hot stove. The common sense is self-evident.

And the Hebrew about dying means "in dying you shall die". Adam did die that day- He died spiritually as declared in Ephesians that we are dead in opr trespasses and sins.

Yeah, judgement is a real aliveness zapper.

 

[Phil .]

So you doubt based on zero evidence that it could be real fruit or not?

Not quite. Doubt’s an emotion, which is felt. Emotion is infallible guidance for thoughts. So to speak, I simply listen to the guidance.

Every normal doubt is brought about by some conflicting evidence to the fact stated. So you are just doubting to doubt?

No. When doubt is believed to be a thought, what’s overlooked is the very content of the thought. It’s overlooked by “I doubt”.
With doubt as an emotion, one can have a look at the content of the thought, and question why the emotional guidance of doubt, is felt about this thought.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Simply get in the car, drive to a tree of knowledge of good & evil, and eat. It’ll get clearer I promise.

If it was still here sure! but God removed it so we can't so the point is irrelevant.

It’s simply self-inherent. One would no more reasonably debate holding one’s hand on a hot stove. The common sense is self-evident.

Well I guess you think 99% of christianity lacks common sense for that is how many people believe it was a real tree with real fruit that had to be eaten like Eve gasve to Adam and he ate !

Yeah, judgement is a real aliveness zapper.

Yup. He died spiritually that day and began the process of physical death as well.

Not quite. Doubt’s an emotion, which is felt. Emotion is infallible guidance for thoughts. So to speak, I simply listen to the guidance.

No, doubt may be felt in the emotions, but doubt isd an intellectual property of questioning certain facts. I do await Peterlags response to this.

 

[Phil .]

If it was still here sure! but God removed it so we can't so the point is irrelevant.

Not sure I’d casually dismiss the single most significant point of the Bible.
It’s right there in the beginning with very good reason.
If that’s misinterpreted, so is everything which follows.

Well I guess you think 99% of christianity lacks common sense for that is how many people believe it was a real tree with real fruit that had to be eaten like Eve gasve to Adam and he ate !

There’s no lack of common sense. It’s a given. Whether common sense is obscured by beliefs is the differentiator.

Yup. He died spiritually that day and began the process of physical death as well.

No, doubt may be felt in the emotions, but doubt isd an intellectual property of questioning certain facts. I do await Peterlags response to this.

Not ‘in the emotions’… is an emotion.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Passing judgement doesn’t equate to there being good & bad people.

What does that even mean? Your statements do not have anything to back them up…..they are just your words which I am sure mean a lot to you, but they mean “nothing“ to me.

The casual reference to nothing is the overlooking of the actuality referred to.
Put another way, you don’t know what nothing is, yet refer to nothing as if nothing were something, which isn’t registering with “what you know”.

”Nothing” means “not any thing”….so referring to “nothing you say“, I mean “not a thing” you say means “anything” to me. You are speaking a foreign language.…and not just to me, judging by other’s responses to your posts.

If you have any more questions feel free

I seriously could not think of a question to ask, because I cannot relate to your responses. They raise more questions than they answer, and it’s doing my head in trying to figure out what the heck you’re trying to say.

Within you & in your midst are different ways of saying it’s this.

“It’s this”? It’s what? You speak in riddles.
Jesus wasn’t saying that the kingdom is something “within you”…..descriptions in other parts of the Bible tell us exactly what God’s kingdom is, and how it “comes”, and what it will do for all humanity in the future.

God is seeking citizens for life in his kingdom, but they have to qualify to live there, just as any other kingdom must vet those who wish to become citizens…..there is criteria. If you fail to meet the requirements, no entry will be granted. It’s really as simple as that.

Your world of altered reality is not where I live.…sorry.

 

[Peterlag]

So you doubt based on zero evidence that it could be real fruit or not? Every normal doubt is brought about by some conflicting evidence to the fact stated. So you are just doubting to doubt?

Of course I have some reason to think it was spirit they gave back. God told them they would die if they did it. Giving spirit back would have done that. Eating an apple would not have done that. Jesus got the spirit back for us.

 

[Phil .]

So the judgment passed on the people of Noah's day, or those in Sodom and Gomorrah, and even those whom God punished in the wilderness, are just figments of the Bible writer's imagination? Was Moses just a figment too? If he recorded those things and they are not true....then God is a liar because he inspired scripture....you appear to deny it, or to give it some very strange 'otherworldly' meaning.

I have tried to reread your statements, but nothing registers with what I know from many years of Bible study.

What does that even mean? Your statements do not have anything to back them up…..they are just your words which I am sure mean a lot to you, but they mean “nothing“ to me.

Though it might initially sound crass, in refraining from talking about me, what I’m saying can be heard. Most of what you’re saying is mockery, demeaning and personal. I don’t mind, but it prevents you from hearing what someone is saying. If you have a specific question about anything I said, I’m happy to answer it.

Meaning is a word. A thought. Like unicorn, there’s not something the thought points to.

”Nothing” means “not any thing”….so referring to “nothing you say“, I mean “not a thing” you say means “anything” to me. You are speaking a foreign language.…and not just to me, judging by other’s responses to your posts.

English isn’t a foreign language.

The belief, or, casual reference “nothing”, similar to judgment & mockery, is all that obscures truth from being seen clearly. This is nothing. Look around. There may be a thought that some thing is here, present, actual or happening but this is the thought and not perception.

Nothing’s happening.

I seriously could not think of a question to ask, because I cannot relate to your responses. They raise more questions than they answer, and it’s doing my head in trying to figure out what the heck you’re trying to say.

If you related you wouldn’t have a question. If you have a question, feel free.

It’s only the judgement, mockery, personal remarks, etc, which are tense, stressful or discordant (doing my head in). It’s like putting your hand on the same hot stove over & over.

“It’s this”? It’s what? You speak in riddles.
Jesus wasn’t saying that the kingdom is something “within you”…..descriptions in other parts of the Bible tell us exactly what God’s kingdom is, and how it “comes”, and what it will do for all humanity in the future.

God is seeking citizens for life in his kingdom, but they have to qualify to live there, just as any other kingdom must vet those who wish to become citizens…..there is criteria. If you fail to meet the requirements, no entry will be granted. It’s really as simple as that.

Your world of altered reality is not where I live.…sorry.

No riddles. It, as in what’s being talked about… is not some other place, some other thing, some other time… It… is this. (Look around).

Within you is exactly what Jesus said.

This , is, within, you.

You are not “inside some thing”.

This… can not possibly come… because this is already… this.

This can not possibly be “there”. “There” is the thought “there”, and is never experienced other than as a thought.

There is no qualification for or of…. This. This is self-evident.

This is not “just as any other kingdom”.

There is no one to vet you.

No one is coming.

There is no one who fails.

Entry can not be denied to this, as this is already this.

There is no “your world of altered reality” - I’m literally talking about this, about reality as is - heaven - and not - some “other place”, some “other time”, etc.