Understanding what is the "Abomination of Desolation".

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Eternally Grateful

Well-Known Member
Feb 27, 2020
14,602
8,283
113
58
Columbus, ohio
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The Prophecy of Seventy Weeks in Daniel chapter 9, is the 490 years of uninterrupted period starting from "the time the word goes out to rebuild and restore Jerusalem," of Daniel 9:25 and ending 3½ years after Jesus' death.

This is your first error

The uninterrupted period of time is from the command to restore, until Christ enters Jerusalem on a donkey.

If you follow the passage, you see things occur after this..

“And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall [j]be cut off, but not for Himself;


1. After the 62nd week (when messiah is introduced) Jesus is cut off (Killed)



And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.


2. Rome will destroy the city and sanctuary, It was done almost 40 years AFTER the 69th week ended

The end of it shall be with a flood,

And till the end of the war desolation's are determined.

3. The city will remain desolate for a period of time, which is predetermined (By God) But unknown to man.
4. During this time their will be multiple war desolation's or many wars. Look at the last 2000 years. how many wars have occurred in the middle east?

27 Then he shall confirm a [k]covenant with many for one week;

5. Then, the 70th week will begin after all these things occur. When the prince of the people who destroyed the city confirms a 7 year covenant with many

But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.

And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,

6. In the middle of that week (3.5 years) That prince will break his covenant, and place an abominable object in the holy place. renduring it desolate, bringing to an end sacrifice and burnt offering

Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the [l]desolate.”


7. It will remain desolate until God punishes the world.. and that time is also determined..



The starting point identified with a decree by Artaxerxes I in 458/7 BC to provide money to rebuild Jerusalem and its temple.

Now there where two earlier decrees by Cyrus and Darius’. So why don't these two decrees qualify to start the prophecy of Daniel 9:25? Well lets take a look at these two decrees. The first is the decree of Cyrus, given in his first year (537/536 B.C.) which is recorded in Ezra 1:1-4. An undated decree of Darius (520/519 B.C.) which is found in Ezra 6:1-12 merely reconfirms the decree of Cyrus. however, the first two decrees are about the temple, and its reconstruction, whereas the statement in Daniel 9:25 is concerned with the decree that resulted in the rebuilding of the city of Jerusalem.

The first two decrees can be omitted from consideration, because they deal only with the building of the temple, and not the rebuilding of the city and restoration, "that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times." So we can see that the third decree of Artaxerxes is the one that started the prophecy of Daniel 9 and was implemented in September/October 457 B.C.
Agree
The appearance of "Messiah the Prince" at the end of the 69 weeks (483 years) is aligned with Jesus' baptism in 27 CE.
This is in error. Jesus was never fortold to come at some baptism, He came when Isaiah said he would. riding on a donkey.. During Jesus whole ministry, he kept repeating the same words. its not my time yet.. It was not time for him to be introduced as messiah


The 'cutting off' of the "anointed one" is applied to the Jesus' execution 3½ years after the end of the 483 years, bringing "atonement for iniquity" and "everlasting righteousness". Jesus' death is said to 'confirm' the "covenant" between God and mankind by in 31 CE "in the midst of" the last seven years. The end of the 70th week is associated with 34 AD when the gospel was redirected from only the Jews to all peoples.
The rest of this makes no sense, and is not according to daniels prophecy.
 

Hobie

Well-Known Member
Jun 11, 2009
2,577
994
113
South Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Lets look at the vision and see what we it shows..
Daniel 9:23-27
23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

So in verse 24 the angel Gabriel says that “seventy weeks are determined for your people and for your holy city” So, the prophecy begins with 70 weeks which equals 490 days, and since its being given in prophecy, that is 490 prophetic years. Gabriel in verse 25 then gives a timeline that from the "going forth of the command to restore and build Jerusalem" until Messiah the Prince, would be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks. So, seven weeks plus 62 weeks comes to 69 weeks, or 483 days. Thus, 69 of the 70 weeks until Messiah comes, and at the same time gives the starting point of the 70 weeks.

Daniel had being praying as we see right before the vision..
Daniel 9:16-19
16 O Lord, according to all thy righteousness, I beseech thee, let thine anger and thy fury be turned away from thy city Jerusalem, thy holy mountain: because for our sins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and thy people are become a reproach to all that are about us.
17 Now therefore, O our God, hear the prayer of thy servant, and his supplications, and cause thy face to shine upon thy sanctuary that is desolate, for the Lord's sake.
18 O my God, incline thine ear, and hear; open thine eyes, and behold our desolations, and the city which is called by thy name: for we do not present our supplications before thee for our righteousnesses, but for thy great mercies.
19 O Lord, hear; O Lord, forgive; O Lord, hearken and do; defer not, for thine own sake, O my God: for thy city and thy people are called by thy name.

In his prayer, Daniel pleaded with God to forgive His people and restore them to their land and capital city, Jerusalem. He asked the Lord for the fulfillment of His promises to the prophets that Jerusalem and its temple would be rebuilt after the destruction that it suffered.
So we see in the vision that God was showing Daniel that He opened his eyes to the coming Messiah and at the same time answered Daniel’s prayer. His people were to be sent back to their homeland by Cyrus, and allowed to rebuild the temple, and eventually rebuild the city of Jerusalem. But God went on beyond Daniel’s requests, and God gave Daniel instruction about the Messiah who was to come to His people after the city and temple were rebuilt.

In this prophecy, God designated the time when the Messiah would come. It was to be marked off from the time of the event Daniel had been praying about, the rebuilding of Jerusalem. This clearly is is given by Gabriel in verse 25 when he says that “from the going forth of the word to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times”

The date for the beginning of this period of the prophecy must coincide with the going forth or issuing of the word or decree that led to the commencement of the reconstruction of Jerusalem. The decree that led to that commencement can be identified as the decree which Artaxerxes I gave to Ezra. And this came in as we see in history as 457 BC, as the date for the decree of Artaxerxes in Ezra 7. Because this was the decree which led to the commencement of the reconstruction of the city of Jerusalem, so you have starting date for the specification for the prophecy. That Daniel 9:25 can be paraphrased here to identify its starting point as, “From the going forth of the word (the decree of Artaxerxes I) to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem (by Ezra according to the decree of Ezra 7 and the actions of Ezra 4), in 457 B.C.”

So you have 69 of the 70 weeks until "Messiah the Prince" comes, and you find that the prophecy of the 69 weeks, or the 483 full historical years of Daniel 9, culminates in A.D. 27. So now we look at what the words “unto Messiah the Prince” mean? They should indicate the time for the coming of the Messiah. It should be noted carefully what a Messiah is, it means an anointed one. Thus the Messiah is one who is anointed. Before that anointing the person involved was not fully the Messiah yet. Thus we are not talking here about the time of the Messiah’s birth or the time of His death; we are talking about the time when He would appear as the Messiah. There is one person and one only who fulfills this requirement, and that is the one who was anointed as the Messiah in A.D. 27, Jesus. His anointing at the Jordan River, by both John the Baptist and His heavenly Father, took place in the fifteenth year of Tiberius Caesar or A.D. 27.

All that remains is one week, the last, the seventieth where Gabriel says, “And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself” in verse 26. And because only one week remains in the prophecy, this verse is referring to the seventieth week, the last seven days. This final week is depicted again: “Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; but in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering” in verse 27. In the midst of the last week, or in three and a half days, the “sacrifice and offerings” will cease, right at the death of Jesus at the cross. The prophecy is sure and concludes just as given..
 
Last edited:
  • Love
Reactions: Cassandra

Hobie

Well-Known Member
Jun 11, 2009
2,577
994
113
South Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Here is a good study to go over.."

The Historical Context of Daniel’s Prophecy of Seventy Weeks​

Because of Israel’s apostasy, the prophet Jeremiah had foretold that the Jews would be delivered as captives to Babylon. In that foreign land they would be confined for seventy years (Jeremiah 25:12; 29:10). Sure enough, the prophet’s warnings proved accurate. The general period of the Babylonian confinement was seventy years (Daniel 9:2; 2 Chronicles 36:21; Zechariah 1:12; 7:5). But why was a seventy-year captivity decreed? Why not sixty, or eighty? There was a reason for this exact time frame.

The law of Moses had commanded the Israelites to acknowledge every seventh year as a sabbatical year. The ground was to lie at rest (Leviticus 25:1-7). Apparently, across the centuries Israel had ignored that divinely-imposed regulation. In their pre-captivity history, there seems to be no example of their ever having honored the sabbath-year law. Thus, according to the testimony of one biblical writer, the seventy years of the Babylonian captivity was assigned “until the land had enjoyed its sabbaths” (2 Chronicles 36:21).

If each of the seventy captivity-years represented a violation of the sabbatical-year requirement (every seventh year), as 2 Chronicles 36:21 appears to suggest, this would indicate that Israel had neglected the divine injunction for approximately 490 years. The captivity era therefore looked backward upon five centuries of sinful neglect. At the same time, Daniel’s prophecy telescoped forward to a time—some 490 years into the future—when the “Anointed One” would “make an end of sins” (9:24). Daniel’s prophecy seems to mark a sort of midway point in the historical scheme of things.

In the first year of Darius, who had been appointed king over the realm of the Chaldeans (ca. 538 B.C.), Daniel, reflecting upon the time-span suggested by Jeremiah’s prophecies, calculated that the captivity period almost was over (9:1-2). He thus approached Jehovah in prayer. The prophet confessed his sins, and those of the nation as well. He petitioned Jehovah to turn away his wrath from Jerusalem, and permit the temple to be rebuilt (9:16-17). The Lord responded to Daniel’s prayer in a message delivered by the angel Gabriel (9:24-27). The house of God would be rebuilt. A more significant blessing would come, however, in the Person of the Anointed One (Christ), who is greater than the temple (cf. Matthew 12:6). This prophecy was a delightful message of consolation to the despondent Hebrews in captivity.

The Messiah’s Mission​

This exciting context sets forth the primary purpose of Christ’s mission to Earth. First, the Messiah would come to deal with the problem of human sin. He would “finish transgression,” make an “end of sins,” and effect “reconciliation for iniquity.” That theme is developed gloriously throughout the New Testament (see Matthew 1:21; 20:28; 26:28; 1 Corinthians 15:3; 2 Corinthians 5:21; Galatians 1:4; Ephesians 1:7; Colossians 1:20; 1 Peter 2:24; Revelation 1:5—passages that are but a fractional sampling of the New Testament references to this exalted topic).

The advent of Christ did not put an end to sin in the sense that wickedness was eradicated from the earth. Rather, the work of the Savior was to introduce a system that could provide effectually and permanently a solution to the human sin predicament. This is one of the themes of the book of Hebrews. Jesus’ death was a “once-for-all” event (see Hebrews 9:26). The Lord never will have to return to the earth to repeat the Calvary experience.

It is interesting to note that Daniel emphasized that the Anointed One would address the problems of “transgression,” “sin,” and “iniquity”—as if to suggest that the Lord is capable of dealing with evil in all of its hideous forms. Similarly, the prophet Isaiah, in the fifty-third chapter of his narrative, revealed that the Messiah would sacrifice himself for “transgression” (vv. 5,8,12), “sin” (vv. 10,12), and “iniquity” (vv. 5,6,11).

It is worthy of mention at this point that Isaiah 53 frequently is quoted in the New Testament in conjunction with the Lord’s atoning work at the time of his first coming. Since Daniel 9:24ff quite obviously has an identical thrust, it, too, must focus upon the Savior’s work at the cross, and not upon Jesus’ second coming—as is alleged by premillennialists.

Second, in addition to his redemptive work in connection with sin, Daniel showed that the Messiah would usher in an era of “everlasting righteousness.” This obviously is a reference to the Gospel dispensation. In the pages of the New Testament, Paul forcefully argued that Heaven’s plan for accounting man as “righteous” was made known “at this present season” (Roman 3:21-26) through the Gospel (Romans 1:16-17).

Third, the angel’s message suggested that as a result of the Messiah’s work, “vision and prophecy” would be sealed up. The Hebrew term denotes that which is brought to a conclusion or is finished (Gesenius 1979, 315). It should be emphasized that the major burden of the Old Testament was to proclaim the coming of God’s Son. Peter declared that the prophets of ancient times heralded the “sufferings of Christ and the glories that should follow them.” He affirmed that this message now is announced in the Gospel (1 Peter 1:10-12). Here is a crucial point. With the coming of the Savior to effect human redemption, and with the completion of the New Testament record which sets forth that message, the need for vision and prophecy became obsolete. As a result, prophecy (and other revelatory gifts) have “ceased” (see 1 Corinthians 13:8-13; Ephesians 4:11-16). There are no supernatural visions and prophecies being given by God in this age. [For further study, see Chapter 5 of Judisch, Jackson (1990, 114-124), and Miracles.]

Fourth, Daniel stated that the “most holy” would be anointed. What is the meaning of this expression? Dispensational premillennialists interpret this as a reference to the rebuilding of the Jewish temple during the so-called “millennium.” But the premillennial concept is not supported by the facts.

Any view that one adopts regarding this phraseology must be consistent with other biblical data. The expression “most holy” probably is an allusion to Christ himself, and the “anointing” a reference to the Lord’s endowment with the Holy Spirit at the commencement of his ministry (Matthew 3:16; Acts 10:38). Consider the following factors.

  1. While it is possible that the grammar can reflect a “most holy” thing or place (i.e., in a neuter form), it also can yield a masculine sense—“Most Holy One.” The immediate context tips the scales toward the masculine since the “anointed one, the prince” is mentioned in verse twenty-five.
  2. The “anointing” obviously belongs to the same time frame as the events previously mentioned, hence is associated with the Lord’s first coming, not the second one.
  3. Thompson has observed that the act of anointing never was associated with the temple’s “most holy” place in the Old Testament (1950, 268).
  4. Anointing was practiced in the Old Testament period as a rite of inauguration and consecration to the offices of prophet (1 Kings 19:16), priest (Exodus 28:41), and king (1 Samuel 10:1). Significantly, Christ functions in each of these roles (see Acts 3:20-23; Hebrews 3:1; Matthew 21:5).
  5. The anointing of Jesus was foretold elsewhere in the Old Testament (Isaiah 61:1), and, in fact, the very title, “Christ,” means anointed.
Fifth, the Anointed One was to “make a firm covenant with many” (Daniel 9:27a, ASV). A better rendition would be: “Make a covenant firm.” The meaning seems to be: the Messiah’s covenant surely will remain firm, i.e., prevail, even though he is killed. The “covenant,” as E.J. Young observed, “is the covenant of grace wherein the Messiah, by His life and death, obtains salvation for His people” (1954, 679).

Sixth, as a result of Christ’s death, “the sacrifice and the oblation” would cease (9:27a). This is an allusion to the cessation of the Jewish sacrifices as a consequence of Jesus’ ultimate sacrificial offering at Golgotha. When the Lord died, the Mosaic law was “nailed to the cross” (Colossians 2:14). That “middle wall of partition” was abolished (Ephesians 2:13-17), and the “first covenant” was replaced by the “second” one (Hebrews 10:9-10). This was the “new covenant” of Jeremiah’s famous prophecy (Jeremiah 31:31-34; cf. Hebrews 8:7ff), and was ratified by the blood of Jesus himself (Matthew 26:28). This context is a rich depository of truth concerning the accomplishments of Christ by means of his redemptive work....

 
  • Love
Reactions: Cassandra

Hobie

Well-Known Member
Jun 11, 2009
2,577
994
113
South Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States

The Prophetic Chronology​

The time element of this famous prophecy enabled the studious Hebrew to know when the promised Messiah would die for the sins of humanity. The chronology of this prophetic context involves three things: a commencement point, a duration period, and a concluding event.

The beginning point was to coincide with a command to “restore and rebuild Jerusalem.” The time span between the starting point and the concluding event was specified as “seventy weeks.” This would be seventy weeks of seven days each—a total of 490 days. Each day was to represent a year in prophetic history. Most conservative scholars hold that the symbolism denotes a period of approximately 490 years (Payne 1973, 383; Archer 1964, 387; cf. RSV). Finally, the terminal event would be the “cutting off,” (i.e., the death) of the Anointed One (9:26). [NOTE: Actually, the chronology is divided into three segments, the total of which represents 486½ years. This would be the span between the command to restore Jerusalem, and the Messiah’s death.]

If one is able to determine the date of the commencement point of this prophecy, it then becomes a relatively simple matter to add to that the time-duration specified in the text, thus concluding the precise time when the Lord was to be slain. Let us therefore narrow our focus regarding this matter.

There are but three possible dates for the commencement of the seventy-week calendar. First, Zerubbabel led a group of Hebrews out of captivity in 536 B.C. This seems to be an unlikely beginning point, however, because 486 years from 536 B.C. would end at 50 B.C., which was eighty years prior to Jesus’ death. Second, Nehemiah led a band back to Canaan in 444 B.C. Is this the commencement point for computing the prophecy? Probably not, for 486 years after 444 B.C. ends at A.D. 42—a dozen years after the death of Christ. However, in 457 B.C., Ezra took a company from Babylon back to Jerusalem. Does this date work mathematically? Indeed. If one starts at 457 B.C., and goes forward for 486½ years, the resulting date is A.D. 30—the very year of Christ’s crucifixion! This is the common view (Scott 1975, 5.364).

The strongest objection to this argument is the claim that Ezra issued no charge to rebuild the city of Jerusalem, and so the starting point of the prophecy could not date from the time of his return. Noted scholar Gleason Archer has responded to this allegation by affirming that Ezra’s commission

apparently included authority to restore and build the city of Jerusalem (as we may deduce from Ezra 7:6,7, and also 9:9, which states, ‘God . . . hath extended lovingkindness unto us in the sight of the kings of Persia, to give us a reviving, to set up the house of God, and to repair the ruins thereof, and to give us a wall in Judea and in Jerusalem,’ ASV). Even though Ezra did not actually succeed in accomplishing the rebuilding of the walls till Nehemiah arrived thirteen years later, it is logical to understand 457 B.C. as the terminus a quo for the decree predicted in Daniel 9:25 (1964, 387; emphasis in original).
In “the midst” of the seventieth week, i.e., after the fulfillment of the 486½ years, the Anointed One was to be “cut off.” This is a reference to the death of Jesus. Isaiah similarly foretold that Christ would be “cut off out of the land of the living” (Isaiah 53:8).

But why are the seventy weeks of Daniel’s prophecy divided into three segments—seven weeks, sixty-two weeks, and the “midst” of one week? There was purpose in this breakdown.

  1. The first division of “seven weeks” (literally, forty-nine years) covers that period of time during which the actual rebuilding of Jerusalem would be underway, following the Hebrews’ return to Palestine (9:25b). This was the answer to Daniel’s prayer (9:16). That reconstruction era was to be one of “troublous times.” The Jews’ enemies had harassed them in earlier days (see Ezra 4:1-6), and they continued to do so in the time of Ezra and Nehemiah. [For further discussion of this circumstance, see Whitcomb 1962, 4435.]
  2. The second segment of sixty-two weeks (434 years), when added to the previous forty-nine, yields a total of 483 years. When this figure is computed from 457 B.C., it terminates at A.D. 26. This was the year of Jesus’ baptism and the beginning of his public ministry.
  3. Finally, the “midst of the week” (three and one-half years) reflects the time of the Lord’s preaching ministry. This segment of the prophecy concludes in A.D. 30—the year of the Savior’s death."......
 

Earburner

Well-Known Member
Feb 2, 2019
6,552
1,543
113
74
South Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
"15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:"

The Jewish Rabbis have pushed the view that it was when in 167 B.C. a Greek ruler by the name of Antiochus Epiphanies set up an altar to Zeus over the altar of burnt offerings in the Jewish temple in Jerusalem. He also sacrificed a pig on the altar in the Temple in Jerusalem.
Yeah, it's called the literal "history" that fulfilled the literal "prophecy" of "the abomination that maketh desolate". Unfortunately, "church-ianity" isn't keen on history, but rather prefers to belive in futuristic religious sci-fy.
But it doesn't fit, as Jesus declared it looking forward in time, so was it the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. And will it be a event turning the temple in Jerusalem into a place of worship for the Antichrist or the false Christ, which is truly an “abomination.” So what is the abomination of desolation.
Herein lies the problem with the Premil crowd, everything fulfilled in the past must be manipulated into the future, in order to support the theory of a future 1000 year reign of Christ on earth.

Maybe if all would would read (and perceive) about the 7th abomination in KJV Proverbs 6:16-19, they might suddenly realize which abomination it was, who it was against, and who it really was that actually committed it.
Clue:
Mat. 27
[25] Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: covenantee

covenantee

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2022
4,595
1,873
113
73
Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
to find out what an abomination of desolation is. We can just look at the words in the original text.
Or we can just look at the interpreting synoptic parallel text in Luke 21:20, which identifies the abomination of desolation as the Roman armies.

They were an abomination to the Jews because of the pagan ensigns which they bore into battle, and worshiped.

They were the desolation which God visited through judgment and destruction upon the apostate nation which had rejected Him.
 

Douggg

Active Member
Nov 26, 2020
653
34
28
75
Memphis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The full 7 year 70th week of Daniel 9:27 remains unfulfilled. The time of the end 2300 days of Daniel 8:11-14 regarding the little horn will fit within that 7 years. As do the 1335 days and 1290 days of Daniel 12:11-12, regarding the abomination of desolation.

Also in Ezekiel 39, the 7 years in verses 9-10 follow the destruction of Gog's army in verses 1-6. Armageddon at the end of the 7 years is in verses 17-20. And Jesus's return, Second Coming in verses 21-29.

No one who thinks that Jesus was cutoff in the middle of the 70th week - ever looks at Ezekiel 39.
 

covenantee

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2022
4,595
1,873
113
73
Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
The 70th week is undecapitated from, and contiguous with, the 69 weeks which precede it.

It is the week of the establishment of the glorious New Covenant by Messiah the Prince at Calvary.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Earburner

Eternally Grateful

Well-Known Member
Feb 27, 2020
14,602
8,283
113
58
Columbus, ohio
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Or we can just look at the interpreting synoptic parallel text in Luke 21:20, which identifies the abomination of desolation as the Roman armies.
No, actually you could not. Because an army is not an unclean thing or an Idol. and it is not standing in THE holy place.

Luke speaks of 70 AD

Matt 24 speaks of the time right before Christ returns..

2 different events.
They were an abomination to the Jews because of the pagan ensigns which they bore into battle, and worshiped.

They were the desolation which God visited through judgment and destruction upon the apostate nation which had rejected Him.
again, This is not an abomination (idol or unclean thing) which causes desolation (unclean) in a holy place.
 

covenantee

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2022
4,595
1,873
113
73
Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
No, actually you could not. Because an army is not an unclean thing or an Idol. and it is not standing in THE holy place.

Luke speaks of 70 AD

Matt 24 speaks of the time right before Christ returns..

2 different events.

again, This is not an abomination (idol or unclean thing) which causes desolation (unclean) in a holy place.
Scripture interprets Scripture, whether you believe it or not.

Whom to believe?

1. Jesus, Matthew, and Luke.
or
2. You.

Do you need a hint?
 

Eternally Grateful

Well-Known Member
Feb 27, 2020
14,602
8,283
113
58
Columbus, ohio
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Scripture interprets Scripture, whether you believe it or not.

Whom to believe?

1. Jesus, Matthew, and Luke.
or
2. You.

Do you need a hint?
You believe Jesus

In luke, he said when you see the armies surround you know the destruction is near

In Matt he said when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of in Daniel standing IN THE HOLY PLACE, you know the great tribulation is near.

2 events. 2 time periods..

Or you can listen to yourself.
 

covenantee

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2022
4,595
1,873
113
73
Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
You believe Jesus

In luke, he said when you see the armies surround you know the destruction is near

In Matt he said when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of in Daniel standing IN THE HOLY PLACE, you know the great tribulation is near.

2 events. 2 time periods..

Or you can listen to yourself.
The HOLY PLACE was the holy city of Jerusalem.

Where the Roman armies were standing.

And where the only idol is the one in your imagination.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cassandra

Eternally Grateful

Well-Known Member
Feb 27, 2020
14,602
8,283
113
58
Columbus, ohio
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The HOLY PLACE was the holy city of Jerusalem.
No

In Israel. the Holy Place was the inner sanctum, or place inside the temple where sacrifice and burnt offering was offered.


Where the Roman armies were standing.

And where the only idol is the one in your imagination.
No one say an idol in the holy place.

But continue to believe what you will..
 

covenantee

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2022
4,595
1,873
113
73
Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
No

In Israel. the Holy Place was the inner sanctum, or place inside the temple where sacrifice and burnt offering was offered.



No one say an idol in the holy place.

But continue to believe what you will..
In Israel. the Holy Place was the inner sanctum, or place inside the temple where sacrifice and burnt offering was offered.
In Israel, the holy city of Jerusalem was a holy place.
No one say an idol in the holy place.
From your post #69:

"Because an army is not an unclean thing or an Idol."

Did you forget your idol so soon?
 

Eternally Grateful

Well-Known Member
Feb 27, 2020
14,602
8,283
113
58
Columbus, ohio
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
In Israel, the holy city of Jerusalem was a holy place.

From your post #69:

"Because an army is not an unclean thing or an Idol."

Did you forget your idol so soon?
You need to study the OT my friend. The sacrifice and burnt offering does not happen in the whole city of Jerusalem.

An army is an unclean thing? Never even that in the OT.

Me thinks your just making things up
 

covenantee

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2022
4,595
1,873
113
73
Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
You need to study the OT my friend. The sacrifice and burnt offering does not happen in the whole city of Jerusalem.

An army is an unclean thing? Never even that in the OT.

Me thinks your just making things up
An unclean thing is an abomination.

I explained in post #66 how an army that worshiped idols was an abomination to the Jews. Don't you believe the Jews?

Trade in your spectacles.
 
Last edited:

Eternally Grateful

Well-Known Member
Feb 27, 2020
14,602
8,283
113
58
Columbus, ohio
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
An unclean thing is an abomination.

I explained in post #66 how an army that worshiped idols was an abomination to the Jews. Don't you believe the Jews?

Trade in your spectacles.
lol

Worshiping and Idol is not an idol itself

Daniel said he would place the abomination which causes desolation in the wing of the temple. The holy place.

Thats not an army

I see fine, You need to put on your thinking cap
 

covenantee

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2022
4,595
1,873
113
73
Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Worshiping and Idol is not an idol itself
Did you flunk kindergarten English?
Daniel said he would place the abomination which causes desolation in the wing of the temple. The holy place.

You're hallucinating. But that's a typical dispensational futurite affliction.

Daniel said nothing of the sort. Here's what he did say:

"for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate", referring to the overwhelming desolation which would be inflicted by the Roman armies.

When you follow the grammatical referent chain back through the verses, "he" is "Messiah the Prince", who was the Divine Commander-in-Chief of the Roman armies visiting judgment, destruction, and desolation upon the nation that had rejected Him.

If you can't comprehend it, leave it for those who can.
 

Douggg

Active Member
Nov 26, 2020
653
34
28
75
Memphis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The abomination of desolation, at the time of the end Daniel 12:9, will be a statue image of the beast-king in the standing position. The holy place - the temple mount. Out in the open, viewable, so that them in Judea will know to flee to the mountains.

-----------------------------------------------------

Back in Luke 21:20-24 is the 70 AD event, with the same instructions to flew to the mountains.


The 70 AD event is a different event from the end times abomination of desolation set up. Recognize that, but don't argue over it.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Eternally Grateful

covenantee

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2022
4,595
1,873
113
73
Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
The abomination of desolation, at the time of the end Daniel 12:9, will be a statue image of the beast-king in the standing position. The holy place - the temple mount. Out in the open, viewable, so that them in Judea will know to flee to the mountains.

-----------------------------------------------------

Back in Luke 21:20-24 is the 70 AD event, with the same instructions to flew to the mountains.


The 70 AD event is a different event from the end times abomination of desolation set up. Recognize that, but don't argue over it.
Only different for those insisting on imposing their own modernist futurized fallacious personal interpretations on the inspired text.

Not at all different for those recognizing that Scripture interprets Scripture.

The Holy Spirit even included the root desolat in both verses to facilitate understanding and recognition.

Except for those refusing to understand and recognize.