Will unbelievers never be saved?

[Wrangler]

romans 2: 6 does NOT support your view.

Sure it supports my view. Action, not belief, is the basis of Judgement for those not under the law.

What construction of words would support my view?

 

[Wrangler]

romans 4 says we will be saved by this same faith.

Did you read the OP on the logic of a guarantee?

If you do not believe, you are condemned.

Evolving doctrine of Apostolic writing, as Bishop Spong pointed out.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes. See post on Bishop Spong.

Do what? Can you repost it?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The law does not apply to Gentiles - never did.

So romans 3 is not to gentiles? Gal 3 is not to gentiles?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Do you see how you are adding text in red while ignoring the “especially” in blue? Especially does not mean exclusively, does it

I did not ignore anything

The bible can not contradict. if it does. throw it all out. it is meaningless.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Sure it supports my view. Action, not belief, is the basis of Judgement for those not under the law.

What construction of words would support my view?

No it does not , you totally misread the context of the whole passage and why paul said what he is saying.. Again, Romans 3 is his concluding comment, which proves it does not support you

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Did you read the OP on the logic of a guarantee?

Yes, Your logic was flawed

Evolving doctrine of Apostolic writing, as Bishop Spong pointed out.

Who cares what some Bishop said?

The bible can not contradict itself. if it does, it can not be trusted. period.

 

[Taken]

A few issues. Scripture does not support your view.

John 3: 18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 5: 38 - But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe.

John 8: 24 Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”

2 Thess 2: 12 - that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

1 John 5: 10 - He who believes in the Son of God has the witness in himself; he who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed the testimony that God has given of His Son.

If anyone does not believe, they are condemned. There will be no unbeliever in heaven.

Even in the OT. Abraham Believed, and he was saved

Yes. People (flesh bodies) do not go to Gods heavenly kingdom…departed saved souls and born again spirits go to heaven …

In the END of these days…Of mortal flesh….
Living saved departed souls AND quickened born again spirits of men….shall return to their RAISED (on Earth) in their Glorified Bodys’….and the Barrier Between Heaven and Earth…thus BEING as it is IN Heaven so also shall it BE ON EARTH….
Gods ONE WHOLE KINGDOM, King OVER and WITH His FAITHFUL People.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Wrangler]

Do what? Can you repost it?

Yes.

To reconcile John 3:18 with Romans 2:6, 14-15 and 1 Tim 4:10.

Here is a context to consider, the slaying of another sacred cow; that reconciling contradictory Scripture stretches what it means to reconcile to straight up eisegesis rationalization. Bishop John Shelby Spong explores this in Why Christianity Must Change or Die from the realization evolving theology - even among Apostolic writers.

The earlier the writing, the more divergant the text is from today's mainstream Christianity. Spong shows the answer of when Jesus became the son of God got earlier with later writings:

• After the resurrection
• After the baptism
• At conception
• Before Creation

 

[Wrangler]

So romans 3 is not to gentiles? Gal 3 is not to gentiles?

I didn't say that.

 

[Wrangler]

I did not ignore anything

The bible can not contradict. if it does. throw it all out. it is meaningless.

Of course you did ignore it and you are ignoring it. "Especially" does not mean "exclusively."

You draw a hard line on textual contradiction. Just because some things contradict does not mean there is no value in the whole of it. But I suppose that is why this is a powerful IDOL. It's all or nothing. That's unfortunate.

 

[Wrangler]

No it does not , you totally misread the context of the whole passage and why paul said what he is saying.. Again, Romans 3 is his concluding comment, which proves it does not support you

Not an answer to my question of What construction of words would support my view?

 

[Wrangler]

Yes, Your logic was flawed

Assertion. Not proof.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I didn't say that.

Then you have the answer to your question. Because they both say the law is to the gentile what it is to the jew. Given to shut every mouth. because all have sinned.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Of course you did ignore it and you are ignoring it. "Especially" does not mean "exclusively."

You draw a hard line on textual contradiction. Just because some things contradict does not mean there is no value in the whole of it. But I suppose that is why this is a powerful IDOL. It's all or nothing. That's unfortunate.

Or you could look up the greek. it has a few meaning, like above all. or very, or above all.

And you also look at John 3.

You want a contradictory bible.you can have one. count me out

 

[MatthewG]

@Wrangler I see all people being saved from sin, death, Satan, hades.

I do not however see that everyone is saved to the kingdom of heavenly Jerusalem due their own desire to be away from God.

That’s how it’s seen in revelation.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Not an answer to my question of What construction of words would support my view?

Sorry Bud, I answered your question by putting romans 2 in context and taking it to its completion

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Assertion. Not proof.

thats all we have here then.. on both sides. if thats the game you want to play

 

[Eternally Grateful]

@Wrangler I see all people being saved from sin, death, Satan, hades.

I do not however see that everyone is saved to the kingdom of heavenly Jerusalem due their own desire to be away from God.

That’s how it’s seen in revelation.

so everyone will be saved?

 

[APAK]

And again, as I mention in others words previously, Romans 2:6 says the judgement is based on deeds or actions, and then these deeds flow or are derived from Romans 2:2, "...the judgement of God is according (based on) the truth against them who are unrighteous and commit these unrighteous deeds.

And the righteous truth therefore means those who believe in the gospel Romans 1:16-17; 2:2,16.

And the unrighteous truth is of self-righteous men who altered(s) the righteous truth. (Romans 1:18, 25)

So logically and in summary:

Belief in Gospel (Romans 1:16-17; 2:16) ---->righteous truth (Romans 2:2) ---> basis for judgement ----> seen via actions or deeds whether righteous or unrighteous. (Romans 2:6). A judgement in favor of, or against men


And so not every one will be saved as God is merciful and also just @MatthewG .