The Gospel of Reconciliation

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Behold

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Ok...what do you mean the cross is not for everyone?

That is "LIMITED ATONEMENT">

= Calvin's Demonic LIE..

Calvin teaches that the CROSS is only given by God = to those that God pre-chose (forced to believe in Jesus) and that you are this "pre-destined one" before you are born...

So that means, if your mother, your brother, your wife, your husband, your children, are not "pre-destined" to "Believe" as Calvin's Lie teaches, then according to John The Devil Calvin, God chose all of them to not be able to BELIEVE IN JESUS, and they died being FORCED to Reject Christ.. = not allowed by GOD to Believe in Jesus.

And then God sends them to Hell for being a Christ Rejector.


See that?

Calvin just created a Theology, that defines God as a COSMIC PSYCHOPATH, WHO WONT let some people trust in Christ, and then when they DIE.. God sends them to hell for being a Christ Rejector.

This is so crazy, and yet so many people, believe this THEOLOGICAL doctrine of devils., As that is how strong is the Devil's anointing on John Calvin and His THEOLOGY>

Paul says that these people will "bewitch you".

Its "spell binding"......its like being under the influence of Sorcery..

And that is a fact. = CALVINISM
 

Ritajanice

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That is "LIMITED ATONEMENT">

= Calvin's Demonic LIE..

Calvin teaches that the CROSS is only given by God = to those that God pre-chose (forced to believe in Jesus) and that you are this "pre-destined one" before you are born...

So that means, if your mother, your brother, your wife, your husband, your children, are not "pre-destined" to "Believe" as Calvin's Lie teaches, then according to John The Devil Calvin, God chose all of them to not be able to BELIEVE IN JESUS, and they died being FORCED to Reject Christ.. = not allowed by GOD to Believe in Jesus.

And then God sends them to Hell for being a Christ Rejector.


See that?

Calvin just created a Theology, that defines God as a COSMIC PSYCHOPATH, WHO WONT let some people trust in Christ, and then when they DIE.. God sends them to hell for being a Christ Rejector.

This is so crazy, and yet so many people, believe this THEOLOGICAL doctrine of devils., As that is how strong is the Devil's anointing on John Calvin and His THEOLOGY>

Paul says that these people will "bewitch you".

Its "spell binding"......its like being under the influence of Sorcery..

And that is a fact.
I’m not into any of Calvin belief...I just have given my testimony...

Calvin has no influence over me only the Holy Spirit can penetrate my heart with Gods truth...as you well know..xx
 

Behold

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I used to think, everyone must be Born Again the same way as me.


Everyone is born again by the Holy Spirt of God, into the Spirit of God., once they BELIEVE.

Calvin teaches that not everyone is allowed to Believe in Jesus., and that is his "limited atonement" doctrine of devils.


So, everyone has the same spiritual birth, but not everyone heard about Jesus the same way.

The "gospel" that is , Jesus died for your sins,, and rose again........this "preaching of the Cross"... can come to you in a movie.
It can come to you by me doing what im doing right now on this forum.
or...
In a Song.
In a book.
In a Tract.
In a Dream.

In Person.... you can have a heavenly visitation...

The MESSAGE of The Cross is going to find you.....and this has many methods.....but its the Same Jesus on the Cross.. and its the same Faith in Christ for us all, that we give to God.
 
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Ritajanice

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Everyone is born again by the Holy Spirt of God, into the Spirit of God.

So, everyone has the same spiritual birth, but not everyone heard about Jesus the same way.

The "gospel" that is , Jesus died for your sins,, and rose again........this "preaching of the Cross"... can come to you in a movie.
In a Song.
In a book.
In a Tract.
In a Dream.
In Person.... you can have a heavenly visitation...

The MESSAGE is going to find you.....and this has many methods.....but its the Same Jesus on the Cross.. and its the same Faith in Christ for us all.
It’s funny...I was listening to “ it must have been LOVE”,by Roxette....when the Holy Spirit came to me, I was sobbing on my bed....much more to it than that....very personal time...the mess of my life..etc..will say no more,xx
 
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Ritajanice

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Ok....well one day, near the end of a work day, a co-worker asked me out of the blue if I wanted to know God and his Son on a personal level, as I already I told him I was disillusioned with the religions of God that brought me no closer to God since when I first hear of him as a child.

I was raised as a RC and thought 'they' were hypocritical who thought more of their image(s) and their wealth and church buildings, their convents and rectories...over their faith in God/

more to come.....sip sip...I see Behold is off on another rant about Calvin.....who?....I read the Bible as my source...and the Spirit within me...
Love your testimony Brother and I Love you,xx
 
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APAK

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@Ritajanice back to my experience...

So my work mate began to read from his KJV Bible as I knew of it as such much later.

He read about the state of man today,...works are as dirty rags in God's eyes....God so loved the world...John 3:16 ...about repentance of sins....before he could even finish I was already in! I believe God already possessed me with his Son's spirit at that very moment as I could not stop reading scripture from that point on...My wife looked at me as a man possessed. I was on fire as best as I could describe it...The Bible suddenly came alive and I could understand it....my new friend in Christ gave me a Bible before he left.....the basic gospel areas at least at that time I could understand. This fire within me went on for months....it was very hard to contain myself...I kept praising God for CHOOSING ME! I never felt at any time I chose him, even today. It does not work that way. Our will is very limited as compared with or maker. And I do/did not need any Augustine or Calvin to tell me this experience either...as being real. I do not need anyone to speak for me of/on my holy miraculous transformation of rebirth into Christ.

And I gave up all the white lies and the petty theft of things I did in my teen years and even as a young man etc....it was suddenly all gone, out of me...this is what the Spirit does, take away sinful vices etc..and it starts with the easy ones first..

In the process, and over time, my parents shunned me and the rest of my siblings...I never really cared anyway at that point. I even sent my Dad a Bible in the mail, written in his own native tongue, that I was raised to speak in..

So the 'wind' as you say did cover me and immersed me Rita that very evening on that pivotal day...And what an experience...and you know with all the ups and downs in my live my faith has grown and never went to empty, ever....thank you God, and in Christ always

So Sis, there is my story, in pieces and bursts, of God meeting me where he knew I was going to be in the first place on that miraculous day. He never misses an appointment with his own...
 
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Ritajanice

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@Ritajanice back to my experience...

So my work mate began to read from his KJV Bible as I knew of it as such much later.

He read about the state of man today,...works are as dirty rags in God's eyes....God so loved the world...John 3:16 ...about repentance of sins....before he could even finish I was already in! I believe God already possessed me with his Son's spirit at that very moment as I could not stop reading scripture from that point on...My wife looked at me as a man possessed. I was on fire as best as I could describe it...The Bible suddenly came alive and I could understand it....my new friend in Christ gave me a Bible before he left.....the basic gospel areas at least at that time I could understand. This fire within me went on for months....it was very hard to contain myself...I kept praising God for CHOOSING ME! I never felt at any time I chose him, even today. It does not work that way. Our will is very limited as compared with or maker. And I do/did not need any Augustine or Calvin to tell me this experience either...as being real. I do not need anyone to speak for me of/on my holy miraculous transformation of rebirth into Christ.

And I gave up all the white lies and the petty theft of things I did in my teen years and even as a young man etc....it was suddenly all gone, out of me...this is what the Spirit does, take away sinful vices etc..and it starts with the easy ones first..

In the process, and over time, my parents shunned me and the rest of my siblings...I never really cared anyway at that point. I even sent my Dad a Bible in the mail, written in his own native tongue, that I was raised to speak in..

So the 'wind' as you say did cover me and immersed me Rita that very evening on that pivotal day...And what an experience...and you know with all the ups and downs in my live my faith has grown and never went to empty, ever....thank you God, and in Christ always

So Sis, there is my story, in pieces and bursts, of God meeting me where he knew I was going to be in the first place on that miraculous day. He never misses an appointment with his own...
Amen!!!


Praise God....what a wonderful testimony to the “ Power” Of God!!..and his Holy Spirit....

A child of God and you know, that’s the biggest Honour and Privilege we can ever receive!!!..xx
 

CadyandZoe

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Can you explain what your are all talking about by Calvin nonsense..what is Calvin nonsense?xx
Beloved rejects the teaching of John Calvin, a French theologian and Reformer from the 1500's, calling it "Calvin Nonsense." Why do people reject an entire theology?

Suppose you decide to buy a basket of fruit from a street vendor. All you can see is the fruit at the top of the basket. Without dumping all the fruit out on the table, how do you decide? The fruit at the bottom of the basket might be spoiled.

Suppose you see a piece of fruit at the top of the basket that has blemishes, in that case, you might reject the entire basket.

Some people reject Calvin's entire theological picture, based on one or two concepts they find offensive. In other words, they reject the entire basket of fruit based on the presence of one or two bad apples.

Calvin's followers have summarized his teaching with the pneumonic acronym: TULIP

T = Total depravity
U = Unconditional Election
L = Limited Atonement
I = Irresistible Grace
P = Perseverance of the Saints.

This theological perspective seeks to answer the question, "How much does man participate in his (or her) salvation?" Both Theologians and Bible students seek a balance between two principles: 1) God's sovereignty and 2) Man's responsibility. Calvinists maintain that salvation is by grace alone and, therefore, man has little to do with being saved. Those who are being saved are the victims of God's grace, if I can put it that way.

Hopefully this gives you a bird's eye view of the issue. :)
 

Ritajanice

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Beloved rejects the teaching of John Calvin, a French theologian and Reformer from the 1500's, calling it "Calvin Nonsense." Why do people reject an entire theology?

Suppose you decide to buy a basket of fruit from a street vendor. All you can see is the fruit at the top of the basket. Without dumping all the fruit out on the table, how do you decide? The fruit at the bottom of the basket might be spoiled.

Suppose you see a piece of fruit at the top of the basket that has blemishes, in that case, you might reject the entire basket.

Some people reject Calvin's entire theological picture, based on one or two concepts they find offensive. In other words, they reject the entire basket of fruit based on the presence of one or two bad apples.

Calvin's followers have summarized his teaching with the pneumonic acronym: TULIP

T = Total depravity
U = Unconditional Election
L = Limited Atonement
I = Irresistible Grace
P = Perseverance of the Saints.

This theological perspective seeks to answer the question, "How much does man participate in his (or her) salvation?" Both Theologians and Bible students seek a balance between two principles: 1) God's sovereignty and 2) Man's responsibility. Calvinists maintain that salvation is by grace alone and, therefore, man has little to do with being saved. Those who are being saved are the victims of God's grace, if I can put it that way.

Hopefully this gives you a bird's eye view of the issue. :)
Well I never.

I certainly believe I and P....I’ll have to look the others up as I’m not understanding them...thanks for posting, Brother and so good to see you back posting more,xx
 
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CadyandZoe

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Beloved is rejecting the doctrine of "Limited Atonement." I can't speak for Beloved but others reject the doctrine of "Limited Atonement" on the basis of another doctrine called "Prevenient Grace", which teaches that God's grace consists of many things, including the atonement and the work of the Holy Spirit to open our eyes. God has extended his grace to "whomever" shall believe. In other words, God's grace goes only so far to save mankind. Individuals must do their part and accept God's offer of grace. Accepting salvation must be a free-will choice.

(I don't believe the doctrine of Prevenient Grace but I offer this explanation so that you might have more background information by which to understand the debate.) :)
 
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CadyandZoe

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Well I never.

I certainly believe I and P....I’ll have to look the others up as I’m not understanding them...thanks for posting, Brother and so good to see you back posting more,xx
Thank you for your kind words. I also believe in I and P. I don't believe in T. We can talk about the others if you like.

I simply can't accept that salvation is nothing more than getting the right answer on a true/false test. :) I think you know what I mean sis.
 
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CadyandZoe

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when i was a little boy......... about 10 yrs old, i use to tie sticks together, in the shape of a Cross, and wonder why.

"what is that".

My parents were dead faith believers, and i was raised to be anything but a Messianic Believer.

I went to one church service in my entire life, until i was 16 yrs old.
And i was about 6 yrs old when i went to that service., and i did have a week of Sunday School when i was 6.
That is all the "church" i had in my life, till i was '16.

Eventually through circumstances, i ended up going to church when i was 16, for a while. A couple of years.
Then, on one Sunday morning,. i BELIEVED.
And....For a while i was a completely different person...... and Then, over the next decade, i just sort of lived life...not related to Christianity.


One day, im in my living room, in '1996.... while looking at a High School Year book....
I had not been to church in at least a decade, ., and i had a visitation in that living room., while looking at my High School Year book.
"Out of the blue'.
I was not reading a bible. I had not prayed in years. I had "dead faith".....= ZERO concern about "Christianity".
And...In comes Heaven, and i was by myself..... and it was scary.
It was not "lay on the floor in joyful convulsions". at all.
It was..>"you are now going to be shown some things, and you were not prepared to see them or know them."
"Hold on".
And for 2 yrs....i saw a lot of signs and wonders., in the day time, and sometimes at night.
At times i was really afraid, because i had no idea that all this "Christian stuff" was so very true, even tho i was a nominal at best, Christian.

Within a few months God put me in a Christian Radio station, ( as i had some Broadcasting/Communications) in College.
I was there for 2 yrs,. I actually lived at this Station..... and it was a literal sabbatical from the world..
All i did was deal with Preachers, listen to and write and record Christian music, and study the Bible.
It was a spiritual boot camp..
It was the "enabling" regarding my "Call".

I had no idea what it was, at that time.
I just knew that i was not in control of what i was seeing, learning,...
I was in "the harness".

And then one day, i was sitting on a porch swing, about 6am, in the summer, sun was coming up and im studying the bible.
This is about '1991. And God showed me more.. and that is when my "call" was put on Track that i'd received in that living room, some yrs earlier.

Now, .... a lot of time has passed and ive done a lot of Evangelizing and Teaching, ive worked as an officer(s) in the Church...many things that i never expected, have happened to me.

So, all of that....Its what i do in REAL life, as this "forum stuff" is just the fact that i care about Believers on Forums, because i know that "christian" forums are anything but that,, is the reality.
And i want them to have a chance to see HOW to SEE and HEAR Deception, and SPOT deceivers/heretics al, and get some Good Cross Centered Pauline Theology also..., so that they can get grounded In God's Grace and Power, and sometimes actually be delivered from a cult or a theology that has them so bound and in the darkness.
I know you care, I can see that. :)
 
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Ritajanice

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I know you care, I can see that. :)
He does care and I thank God for him.

We have our differences..but, Behold and I have never fallen out over our differences....he’s a big softy...even though he comes across as stern, he’s mature, imo anyway......but, he will stand on God’s word and NO one will uproot him.xx
 
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Ritajanice

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I used to go to church as a teenager, I went with my friends Mum and Dad..I also cleaned for a vicar and his wife....my ex husbands Brother was Born Again, I was a non believer at the time, I thought he was loopy all this Jesus praising,hehehe..now look at me, every opportunity I get, Jesus comes into the conversation even with strangers....my neighbors know I’m Born Again....they think I’m loopy I’ve been told,hehehe....I pray that they too come to know Jesus as I do.

I witness a lot to a neighbour..so, who knows what God is doing there..it’s all in his hands...xx

My youngest Son and I often talk about the Lord, he was about 5 when I became Born Again, so, that’s all he’s known,xx
 

brightfame52

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Now in order for those Christ died for to be reconciled to God BY HIS DEATH, while they are yet enemies Rom 5:10, there must have been an application of the cleansing blood to their account, while they were still in unbelief, because without the taking away of sin by the blood/death of Christ, there's no reconciliation !

Remember, Jesus passed up into the heavens after He died and ascended as the High Priest of His People Heb 4:14

Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.

And as High Priest He performs the sprinkling of the blood, that is, He applies it to account of those sinners He died for. Isaiah writing of Christ as High Priest Isa 52:13-15

13 Behold, my servant shall deal prudently, he shall be exalted and extolled, and be very high.

14 As many were astonied at thee; his visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men:

15 So shall he sprinkle many nations; the kings shall shut their mouths at him: for that which had not been told them shall they see; and that which they had not heard shall they consider.

Heb 12:24

And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

1 Pet 1:2

Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Now those He died for, He put away their sin before God Heb 9:26

26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself [His death/blood].


So thats how those Christ died for are reconciled to God even as in themselves they are yet enemies/unbelievers !

15
 

Ritajanice

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Remember, Jesus passed up into the heavens after He died and ascended as the High Priest of His People Heb 4:14
This is what I believe was revealed to my spirit today by God...so this, is like he is reinforcing his word, thank you .
 

Ritajanice

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Beloved is rejecting the doctrine of "Limited Atonement." I can't speak for Beloved but others reject the doctrine of "Limited Atonement" on the basis of another doctrine called "Prevenient Grace", which teaches that God's grace consists of many things, including the atonement and the work of the Holy Spirit to open our eyes. God has extended his grace to "whomever" shall believe. In other words, God's grace goes only so far to save mankind. Individuals must do their part and accept God's offer of grace. Accepting salvation must be a free-will choice.

(I don't believe the doctrine of Prevenient Grace but I offer this explanation so that you might have more background information by which to understand the debate.) :)
I don’t believe in Prevenient grace either..accepting salvation makes no sense to me...how can you accept being Born Of The Spirit...when it’s an act of God....
 
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APAK

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when i was a little boy......... about 10 yrs old, i use to tie sticks together, in the shape of a Cross, and wonder why.

"what is that". ??????????? I had no idea.

My parents were dead faith believers, and i was raised to be anything but a Messianic Believer.

I went to one church service in my entire life, until i was 16 yrs old.
And i was about 6 yrs old when i went to that one service., and i did have a week of Sunday School when i was 6.
That is all the "church" i had in my life, till i was '16., other then a "Jack Chick" Tract i found on the ground when i was 6 and i read it and it never has left my mind.

Eventually through circumstances, i ended up going to church when i was 16, for a while. A couple of years.
Then, on one Sunday morning,. i BELIEVED.
And....For a while i was a completely different person...... and Then, over the next decade, i just sort of lived life...not related to Christianity.


One day, im in my living room, in '1986....and heaven came down while i was looking at a High School Year book....
I had not been to church in about a decade, ., and i had a visitation in that living room., while looking at my High School Year book.
"Out of the blue'.
I was not reading a bible. I had not prayed in years. I had "dead faith".....= ZERO concern about "Christianity".
And...In comes Heaven, and i was by myself..... and it was scary.
It was not "lay on the floor in joyful convulsions". at all.
It was..>"you are now going to be shown some things, and you were not prepared to see them or know them."
"Hold on". !!
And for 2 yrs....i saw a lot of signs and wonders., in the day time, and sometimes at night, and ive seen more since then on both sides of the world.
Ive seen miracles happen before my EYES, in the DAYTIME.
At times, early on, that first 5 yrs.... i was really afraid, because i had no idea that all this "Christian stuff" was so very true, even tho i was a nominal at best, Christian.

Within a few months God put me in a Christian Radio station, ( as i had some Broadcasting/Communications) in College.
I was there for 2 yrs,. I actually lived at this Station..... and it was a literal sabbatical from the world..
All i did was deal with Preachers, listen to and write and record Christian music, and study the Bible.
It was a spiritual boot camp..
It was the initial "enabling" regarding my "Call".

I had no idea what it was, at that time.
I just knew that i was not in control of what i was seeing, learning,...
I was in "the harness".

And then one day, i was sitting on a porch swing, about 6am, in the summer, sun was coming up and im studying the bible.
This is about '1991. And God showed me more.. and that is when my "call" was put on Track that i'd received in that living room, some yrs earlier.

Now, .... a lot of time has passed and ive done a lot of Evangelizing and Teaching, ive worked as an officer(s) in the Church...many things that i never expected, have happened to me.

So, all of that....Its what i do in REAL life, as this "forum stuff" is just the fact that i care about Believers on Forums, because i know that "christian" forums are anything but that,, is the reality.
And i want them to have a chance to see HOW to SEE and HEAR Deception, and SPOT deceivers/heretics, and get some Good Cross Centered Pauline Theology also..., so that they can get grounded In God's Grace and Power, and sometimes actually be delivered from a cult or a theology that has them so bound and in their darkness.
Thank you in truth for this personal testimony Behold. I've not heard these words from you before. And I know you spoke from the heart. I knew you had it in you all along......love you for this openness brother...I can also come across a little rough and intimidating to try and get my points across as well. Once in a while I need someone to nudge me into a lower gear. My wife does that for me and I do appreciate her for it.

In the love of Christ Jesus and of his God, and the Cross he wore as his instrument for servicing his legal obligation to his Father, for us to be reconciled to himself; of the atonement of sins and for our sins to then be forgiven by every one of us who God moved to himself with his Spirit, to believe, and in faith of this miraculous event on Calvary, indeed. He is our risen leader, brother, lord and saviour in the Kingdom of God today.
 
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Ritajanice

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Thank you for your kind words. I also believe in I and P. I don't believe in T. We can talk about the others if you like.

I simply can't accept that salvation is nothing more than getting the right answer on a true/false test. :) I think you know what I mean sis.
Can you start a thread about TULIP?..then we can talk about the others..you can lead the way, as you have understanding of it...it sounds interesting..xx
 
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