Jesus is the ONLY mediator between man and God! So you are making Mary equal to Jesus!We are asking Her to pray to God for us.
1 Timothy 2:5
5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,
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Jesus is the ONLY mediator between man and God! So you are making Mary equal to Jesus!We are asking Her to pray to God for us.
FWIW, Mary clearly was a much more central figure in early Christianity than she is in Protestant theology today:For me a key point comes in "how we read the Bible". When someone holds to a doctrine which is refuted in Scripture, they have to do something about that refutation. Typically this is address (in my experience) by "It says THIS, but it really means THAT." So that all no longer means all, or that "this is a symbol/metaphor for . . ."
If we get into the habit of allowing this kind of loose interpretation in our minds, that, to me, is a problem.
Much love!
I've read enough early church writings to know they were all over the map on many things, and many things they wrote appear to me to be in direct contradiction to the Scriptures.but when doctrines go back to the Apostolic Fathers and Early Church Fathers
I don't reject Mary as a very remarkable young woman, chosen by God to be the mother of his son. What I do reject is the claim she was sinless, without sin at birth and nobody has been able to prove me wrong from the bible - I do no accept any other source. Even you. I asked for a simple passage from the bible which says she is without sin but you couldn't provide it because your source is outside of biblical scripture. I rest my case.Jesus Himself explicitely states the Mother of God Incarnate is without sin as well, and explains why, but His words are found in a book you reject, at least right now. At this time, you need to read "Mary was sinless" in the Bible in order to accept that She was, and I'm patient and understanding as to why. Now, in the writings that make up the Bible, we don't have anyone explicitly writing"Mary was sinless" like you want, but it is in there, there's just more than one way to something, and you have to recognize those other ways. For example, the very fact that God Himself was conceived and took form in Her as Jesus, God Incarnate. Read the opening post again, and if you still believe God, the Most Holy and Perfect One, would want to and could reside in someone stained with original sin, etc., then explain why.
Locusts and honey isn't enough protein?Whether John the Baptist ever went fishing - now THAT deserves a thread of its own!
Well, since he was doing his baptismal thing in the Jordan River anyway, he just kind of figured "What the heck ..."Locusts and honey isn't enough protein?
Praying to Mary to pray to God for you is still praying to Mary.The words in the Hail Mary prayer come from Scripture, and it begins by addressing Mary using the words the angel, Gabriel, and Her cousin used:
"Hail, Mary, full of grace,
the Lord is with you. (Lk. 1:26-28)
Blessed art you among women
and blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus. (Lk. 1:42)
Holy Mary, Mother of God,
pray for us sinners,
now and at the hour of our death.
Amen."
We are asking Her to pray to God for us. We're not praying to Her in the way we, including Her, prays to God. See, @Jack, this is an example that people believe the lie that we pray to Mary.
I don't know if Mary was sinless or not. The Bible is silent on the issue. To those who say that such silence proves she wasn't sinless, I say your logic is faulty; the Bible is silent on a great many things that are true. So @Pearl, you shouldn't have rested your case so quickly. (On the other hand, the burden of proof isn't on you, so the verdict will probably go your way anyway.)I don't reject Mary as a very remarkable young woman, chosen by God to be the mother of his son. What I do reject is the claim she was sinless, without sin at birth and nobody has been able to prove me wrong from the bible - I do no accept any other source. Even you. I asked for a simple passage from the bible which says she is without sin but you couldn't provide it because your source is outside of biblical scripture. I rest my case.
Exactly. God didn't give us the Bible because He thought we needed more doorstops.I've read enough early church writings to know they were all over the map on many things, and many things they wrote appear to me to be in direct contradiction to the Scriptures.
And I also understand that the victor writes the history, that is, the ones who gather the writings have the option of which to keep and which not to. I have no assurance that the extant material is in fact complete, or even representative.
I'm a sola Scriptura kind of guy, what that means to me is that everything is to be checked and confirmed by the Bible.
Much love!
Not sure about John, but I believe that Moses always had a rod with him.Well, since he was doing his baptismal thing in the Jordan River anyway, he just kind of figured "What the heck ..."
And no one can deny that there is existing FALSE information about people/places/events that is lacking in the writings that make up the Bible. You really need to get off this "The Bible doesn't say No, therefore YES" kick. You've got some good points to make, and this type of silliness only detracts from your credibility.
It IS an argument for her sinlessness!
Praying to Mary to pray to God for you is still praying to Mary.
I asked for a simple passage from the bible which says she is without sin but you couldn't provide it because your source is outside of biblical scripture.
Jesus is the ONLY mediator between man and God! So you are making Mary equal to Jesus!
1 Timothy 2:5
5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,
Asking Mary is in fact praying to Mary. Making petition of Mary.
Much love!
I don't ask dead people to join me in prayer! LOL!!!So, you don't ask others to join you in prayer to God for yourself or another?
I don't ask dead people to join me in prayer! LOL!!!
Already said, I don't ask dead people anything. How many dead people do you talk to? Do they answer you?Well, no one is dead in the eternal, whether they are in Heaven or Hell, because the soul is immortal. So, again, do you not ask others, whether those alive on earth or in Heaven, to join you in prayer to God for yourself or another?
Already said, I don't ask dead people anything. How many dead people do you talk to? Do they answer you?
Do they ever talk back to you? Do you hear voices?Again, no one is dead in the eternal, whether they are in Heaven or Hell, because the soul is immortal. Therefore, there's technically no talking to dead people, but rather only living people who are either alive in the temporal or alive in the eternal. So, how many living people do I talk to who are in the eternal? Well, there's God the Father, Jesus, His Mother, the apostles, my family, friends, etc. Does God answer my prayers? Yes, He just hasn't audibly, at least in my experience so far. Do you not ask others alive on earth or alive in Heaven, to join you in prayer to God for yourself or another?
Do they ever talk back to you? Do you hear voices?
Yes I do.Before I answer a question from you, can you answer the one I've had to ask you multiple times now? Do you not ask others alive on earth
No I don't. They are gone.or alive in Heaven, to join you in prayer to God for yourself or another?
Your turn. Do you hear voices? Do they answer you?I like to try and keep discussion fair
No I don't.They are gone.
Do you hear voices?
I didn't say "immortal souls". People who died are not here, including Mary.Thank you for answering. So, what do you mean immortal souls are "gone?"
So you talk to them but they don't answer.Audible voices? I personally haven't, at least not yet, but others have.