Can a tare become saved?

[grafted branch]

Where is this concept taught in scripture? Who are these people that are sown by Satan and never have any opportunity to be saved?

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

It was impossible for those in Hebrews 6 to become saved, they are the tares. The scribes and Pharisees did understand that Messiah was coming, they were enlightened. Once they rejected Jesus as the Messiah and became the children of the wicked one, there was no hope for them.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

It was impossible for those in Hebrews 6 to become saved, they are the tares.

That is not at all what that passage says. That passage indicates that those who are saved can fall away, and if they do, they can't be renewed again unto repentance. How can someone not be renewed AGAIN to repentance if they weren't renewed unto repentance in the first place?

The scribes and Pharisees did understand that Messiah was coming, they were enlightened. Once they rejected Jesus as the Messiah and became the children of the wicked one, there was no hope for them.

I'm glad that Paul didn't have your perspective because he hoped to save some of those who you say had no hope of salvation.

Romans 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. 12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? 13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

 

[grafted branch]

That is not at all what that passage says. That passage indicates that those who are saved can fall away, and if they do, they can't be renewed again unto repentance.

That is what that passage says. You’re trying to make it say a person can lose their salvation and that’s impossible under the new covenant.

How can someone not be renewed AGAIN to repentance if they weren't renewed unto repentance in the first place?

They were observing repentance through the old covenant. When the validity of that covenant ended and they rejected Jesus and the new covenant, it was impossible to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

I'm glad that Paul didn't have your perspective because he hoped to save some of those who you say had no hope of salvation.

Paul wasn’t told who was and who wasn’t a tare. Not every single Jew was a tare. The Son of man sowed first in that old covenant field then Satan sowed the tares. Some Jews were tares some were not.

and might save some of them.

Exactly some might be saved but not all as some were tares

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

That is what that passage says. You’re trying to make it say a person can lose their salvation and that’s impossible under the new covenant.

So, you are obviously a Calvinist and that explains some things while your belief in preterism explains the rest.

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Explain how any of "those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come" could possibly not be saved? If that isn't a description of a saved person, then I don't know what is.

They were observing repentance through the old covenant. When the validity of that covenant ended and they rejected Jesus and the new covenant, it was impossible to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

You don't seem to understand how salvation works. It has always worked the same in the sense that it has always been by grace through faith and not by works. So, anyone who repented in old covenant times was saved. That passage is talking about the possibility of people who were saved to fall away.

Paul wasn’t told who was and who wasn’t a tare. Not every single Jew was a tare. The Son of man sowed first in that old covenant field then Satan sowed the tares. Some Jews were tares some were not.

Have you actually read Romans 11? He differentiated between the elect remnant who were saved and the rest who were blinded (Romans 11:5-7). In Romans 11:11-14 he was only referring to those who were blinded and said that they stumbled (only unbelievers stumbled, not believers) but did not fall and then said he hoped to help save some of those who stumbled, which were those who were blinded in order for the gospel to go to the Gentiles so that they would then be provoked to jealousy by the Gentiles.

Exactly some might be saved but not all as some were tares

All of those that Paul was talking about in Romans 11:11-14 were tares because the context involved only those who were blinded and not the remnant who were already saved. Paul said he hoped to lead some of those who were blinded to salvation. They were not blinded permanently, but only temporarily while the gospel went to the Gentiles. God's plan for them was to blind them since it was His plan for them to remain in unbelief and reject His Son so that He would make His planned sacrifice on the cross and it was His plan for the gospel to go to the Gentiles so that those blinded Israelites would then be provoked to jealousy and want to be saved like the Gentiles were. That's why Paul had the hope to lead some of them to salvation because he understood God's plan for them.

 

[grafted branch]

Explain how any of "those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come" could possibly not be saved? If that isn't a description of a saved person, then I don't know what is.

OT Israel was enlightened, tasted of the heavenly gift, were partakers of the Holy Ghost, tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come.

I think the problem is that you don’t recognize the new covenant as the age that was to come and I do.

You don't seem to understand how salvation works. It has always worked the same in the sense that it has always been by grace through faith and not by works. So, anyone who repented in old covenant times was saved. That passage is talking about the possibility of people who were saved to fall away.

Well, I don’t want to get into an in-depth debate over OSAS, but you are correct, to recognize we have differences in how salvation works which is impacting our interpretations.

Have you actually read Romans 11? He differentiated between the elect remnant who were saved and the rest who were blinded (Romans 11:5-7).

Yea, I’ve read it, and again you and I have a different view of what blindness in part is referring to.

Here’s the bottom line, you have tares becoming wheat and wheat becoming tares which means sometimes Satan sows believers and sometimes the Son of man sowed unbelievers. Why would the servants of the householder care that tares were sown in Matthew 13:27 if those tares could’ve eventually become wheat? Shouldn’t the servants have said something like “great, someone has sown more seed into our field, this is a good thing”?

 

[PinSeeker]

I read the parable as a line in the sand. Everyone exists in the world together. Those are Satan's and Christ says these are my chosen. Straight up, Jesus Christ knows who belong to Him and the tares will be burnt. There is no crossing the line.

Well, there will be no crossing the line, right, Rocker? Everyone is a child of the devil at birth, but for some, at some point ~ when they are born again of the Spirit ~ that is no longer the case; they are then children of God. So the answer to the question posed in the original post ("can a tare become saved?") is yes and no...

• yes, in the sense that anyone who at whatever point in his/her life he/she becomes born again of the Spirit, he/she was previously a tare, but has been made to be wheat ~ was lost but now is found, in the words of everyone's favorite hymn... <smile>
• and no, in a different sense, the sense that, on Jesus's return, all who are going to be saved will have been saved; that's actually what prompts Christ's return at the end of the current age, so no, that that point, there will be no "crossing the line."

To the follow-up question, "how does this fit with Satan being bound or not bound?"... The only place in the Bible where the reason for Satan's binding is mentioned is Revelation 20:2-3. He is absolutely restricted from "deceiving the nations," which means he absolutely cannot prevent the spread of the Gospel ~ he is bound and sealed from doing so ~ beyond the nation of Israel as he once could before the coming of Jesus 2000 years ago, which is depicted in Revelation 20:1 as an "angel coming down from heaven," Who "seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years." Jesus Himself says in Matthew 12:29, "how can someone enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? Then indeed he may plunder his house." So even then, Jesus is saying He had entered Satan's "house" and bound him and was plundering Satan's "goods" ~ which is to say that people who were once Satan's children were being made His... He was taking His own unto Himself. And by the ongoing work of the Holy Spirit, this is still happening to this day... and will continue to the end of this age.

Grace and peace to all.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

OT Israel was enlightened, tasted of the heavenly gift, were partakers of the Holy Ghost, tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come.

I think the problem is that you don’t recognize the new covenant as the age that was to come and I do.

It's a serious problem for you to think that the new covenant age started in 70 AD when it was the blood of Christ that established the new covenant.

Well, I don’t want to get into an in-depth debate over OSAS, but you are correct, to recognize we have differences in how salvation works which is impacting our interpretations.

Yes, that is quite clear. I'm not interested in debating that here right now, either, even though I have done that on this forum before. It's not really the right forum for that, though.

Yea, I’ve read it, and again you and I have a different view of what blindness in part is referring to.

Here’s the bottom line, you have tares becoming wheat and wheat becoming tares which means sometimes Satan sows believers

For those who once belonged to Satan and were delivered from his grasp, who sowed their unbelief?

and sometimes the Son of man sowed unbelievers. Why would the servants of the householder care that tares were sown in Matthew 13:27 if those tares could’ve eventually become wheat? Shouldn’t the servants have said something like “great, someone has sown more seed into our field, this is a good thing”?

This is hopeless. We are too far apart in our perspectives of things to make it worth continuing this discussion. Thanks for the discussion, anyway, though.

 

[PinSeeker]

You’re trying to make it say a person can lose their salvation and that’s impossible under the new covenant.

Hmmm, well, it's impossible, period. Right, GB? I mean, Hebrews 11 says, unequivocally, that all who are saved are saved the same way, through faith, regardless of Old or New Testament times... from Abraham on up... through faith, which is the gift of God (Ephesians 2:8). So yes, and we know also that "the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable" (Romans 11:29). But yes, you're right, if we've been given the gift of faith, having been called by God through the working of His Spirit, we cannot lose our salvation... God does not take back what He has given.

OT Israel was enlightened, tasted of the heavenly gift, were partakers of the Holy Ghost, tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come.

Yes, the key to that Hebrews 6 passage is that they "were partakers" and thus "tasted of the heavenly gift," which is to say they participated in it and experienced it but implicitly speaking were never truly recipients of it... this gift was never actually given them by God through the working of His spirit. These are the ones who fall away. The apostle John speaks to this in 1 John 2, speaking of many who once participated with believers but at some point "went out from us..." (this 'us' being Christians, those born again of the Spirit) "...but... were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us... they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us." Those who are of God will not fall away, because they are kept in the faith they have been given by the Spirit in His ongoing work in them, which we call sanctification.

• As Paul says in Philippians 1:6, "He Who began a good work in us will..." ~ not might or might not, but will ~ "...bring it to completion at the day of Christ."
• And as Peter says in 1 Peter 1:3-9, "According to (God's) great mercy, He has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. In this you rejoice, though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been grieved by various trials, so that the tested genuineness of your faith ~ more precious than gold that perishes though it is tested by fire ~ may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ. Though you have not seen Him, you love Him. Though you do not now see Him, you believe in Him and rejoice with joy that is inexpressible and filled with glory, obtaining the outcome of your faith, the salvation of your souls."
• Back to Paul in Romans 8, "we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us... (nothing) in all creation will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord."
• And the writer of Hebrews later says (in Hebrews 12:2), "Jesus (is) the Founder and Perfecter/Finisher of our faith."

So yes, we have eternal life now... and when eternity comes, will then also. Without fail. Our faith will then finally be sight. Thanks be to God!

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Rockerduck]

Well, there will be no crossing the line, right, Rocker? Everyone is a child of the devil at birth, but for some, at some point ~ when they are born again of the Spirit ~ that is no longer the case; they are then children of God. So the answer to the question posed in the original post ("can a tare become saved?") is yes and no...

• yes, in the sense that anyone who at whatever point in his/her life he/she becomes born again of the Spirit, he/she was previously a tare, but has been made to be wheat ~ was lost but now is found, in the words of everyone's favorite hymn... <smile>
• and no, in a different sense, the sense that, on Jesus's return, all who are going to be saved will have been saved; that's actually what prompts Christ's return at the end of the current age, so no, that that point, there will be no "crossing the line."

To the follow-up question, "how does this fit with Satan being bound or not bound?"... The only place in the Bible where the reason for Satan's binding is mentioned is Revelation 20:2-3. He is absolutely restricted from "deceiving the nations," which means he absolutely cannot prevent the spread of the Gospel ~ he is bound and sealed from doing so ~ beyond the nation of Israel as he once could before the coming of Jesus 2000 years ago, which is depicted in Revelation 20:1 as an "angel coming down from heaven," Who "seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years." Jesus Himself says in Matthew 12:29, "how can someone enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? Then indeed he may plunder his house." So even then, Jesus is saying He had entered Satan's "house" and bound him and was plundering Satan's "goods" ~ which is to say that people who were once Satan's children were being made His... He was taking His own unto Himself. And by the ongoing work of the Holy Spirit, this is still happening to this day... and will continue to the end of this age.

Grace and peace to all.

If you are Chosen from the foundation of the world in the Lamb's book of Life. You are born with sin like everyone else, but you were separated and different because God was in control of every moment of your life up to and after your salvation. You were never a tare, God knew you would be one of His children. The tares Jesus was talking about are those He knew were never going to be His. The tares could be in your family or your best friends, but Christians are separated in the womb.
Follow up question - Satan is out there right now, I've talked to him. He is the deceiver and liar and father of lies. He isn't bound up. It is his demons that mess with people. Satan is a master manipulator, he knew your parents, grandparents, great grandparents, etc. Satan know what buttons to push. In Christ, he has no power at all. It behooves me how Christians can be deceived so easy. Teachers and preachers who preach what they conceive in their minds. Just like you did. What did Jesus say when did He it.

 

[Davidpt]

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

It was impossible for those in Hebrews 6 to become saved, they are the tares. The scribes and Pharisees did understand that Messiah was coming, they were enlightened. Once they rejected Jesus as the Messiah and became the children of the wicked one, there was no hope for them.

That passage isn't teaching it is impossible for them to be saved. It is teaching that if they fall away after having been saved it is then impossible for them to regain their initial saved status at that point. IOW, that passage is yet another passage that proves NOSAS is Biblical.

 

[Rockerduck]

Hmmm, well, it's impossible, period. Right, GB? I mean, Hebrews 11 says, unequivocally, that all who are saved are saved the same way, through faith, regardless of Old or New Testament times... from Abraham on up... through faith, which is the gift of God (Ephesians 2:8). So yes, and we know also that "the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable" (Romans 11:29). But yes, you're right, if we've been given the gift of faith, having been called by God through the working of His Spirit, we cannot lose our salvation... God does not take back what He has given.




Yes, the key to that Hebrews 6 passage is that they "were partakers" and thus "tasted of the heavenly gift," which is to say they participated in it and experienced it but implicitly speaking were never truly recipients of it... this gift was never actually given them by God through the working of His spirit. These are the ones who fall away. The apostle John speaks to this in 1 John 2, speaking of many who once participated with believers but at some point "went out from us..." (this 'us' being Christians, those born again of the Spirit) "...but... were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us... they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us." Those who are of God will not fall away, because they are kept in the faith they have been given by the Spirit in His ongoing work in them, which we call sanctification.

• As Paul says in Philippians 1:6, "He Who began a good work in us will..." ~ not might or might not, but will ~ "...bring it to completion at the day of Christ."
• And as Peter says in 1 Peter 1:3-9, "According to (God's) great mercy, He has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. In this you rejoice, though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been grieved by various trials, so that the tested genuineness of your faith ~ more precious than gold that perishes though it is tested by fire ~ may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ. Though you have not seen Him, you love Him. Though you do not now see Him, you believe in Him and rejoice with joy that is inexpressible and filled with glory, obtaining the outcome of your faith, the salvation of your souls."
• Back to Paul in Romans 8, "we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us... (nothing) in all creation will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord."
• And the writer of Hebrews later says (in Hebrews 12:2), "Jesus (is) the Founder and Perfecter/Finisher of our faith."

So yes, we have eternal life now... and when eternity comes, will then also. Without fail. Our faith will then finally be sight. Thanks be to God!

Grace and peace to you.

See the "if". Paul did not say when he said if they do. like, if you touch that hot pan you will get burnt.
Hebrews 6:6 - If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh and put him to an open shame.

 

[Rockerduck]

That passage isn't teaching it is impossible for them to be saved. It is teaching that if they fall away after having been saved it is then impossible for them to regain their initial saved status at that point. IOW, that passage is yet another passage that proves NOSAS is Biblical.

Don't be ridiculous. OSAS is biblical. You didn't save yourself, you didn't ask for salvation, God gave it to you. It is a gift. What man can tell God what to do, Jesus said I will never leave you or forsake you. Hebrew 6 is a warning for Jews not to go back into Mosiac law. Threaten a Christian that you'll lose the Holy Spirit will straighten anyone up, even if Paul knew it would not happen.

 

[Triumph1300]

Christians are separated in the womb.

Oh, that's interesting.
Never heard that before.
So, some kids that die and are not within the separate bunch are going straight to hell.

 

[Rockerduck]

Oh, that's interesting.
Never heard that before.
So, some kids that die and are not within the separate bunch are going straight to hell.

That's up to God, and not for you to figure out. His ways are higher than our ways, and His thoughts are higher than ours.

 

[Triumph1300]

Satan is out there right now, I've talked to him.

You talked to satan?
About what.
What did satan tell you?
Did he tell you, for instance that the prophesies in Book of Revelations already happened?

 

[Triumph1300]

That's up to God, and not for you to figure out.

Then why did you figure this out?
Are you somebody special, Don?

Or did this come up during your conversation with satan?

 

[Scott Downey]

Well, there will be no crossing the line, right, Rocker? Everyone is a child of the devil at birth, but for some, at some point ~ when they are born again of the Spirit ~ that is no longer the case; they are then children of God. So the answer to the question posed in the original post ("can a tare become saved?") is yes and no...

• yes, in the sense that anyone who at whatever point in his/her life he/she becomes born again of the Spirit, he/she was previously a tare, but has been made to be wheat ~ was lost but now is found, in the words of everyone's favorite hymn... <smile>
• and no, in a different sense, the sense that, on Jesus's return, all who are going to be saved will have been saved; that's actually what prompts Christ's return at the end of the current age, so no, that that point, there will be no "crossing the line."

To the follow-up question, "how does this fit with Satan being bound or not bound?"... The only place in the Bible where the reason for Satan's binding is mentioned is Revelation 20:2-3. He is absolutely restricted from "deceiving the nations," which means he absolutely cannot prevent the spread of the Gospel ~ he is bound and sealed from doing so ~ beyond the nation of Israel as he once could before the coming of Jesus 2000 years ago, which is depicted in Revelation 20:1 as an "angel coming down from heaven," Who "seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years." Jesus Himself says in Matthew 12:29, "how can someone enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? Then indeed he may plunder his house." So even then, Jesus is saying He had entered Satan's "house" and bound him and was plundering Satan's "goods" ~ which is to say that people who were once Satan's children were being made His... He was taking His own unto Himself. And by the ongoing work of the Holy Spirit, this is still happening to this day... and will continue to the end of this age.

Grace and peace to all.

Yes, seems the binding is selectively applied.
Peter says this too, and the attack is on all believers all over the world.

1 Peter 5

8 Be [c]sober, be [d]vigilant; [e]because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. 9 Resist him, steadfast in the faith, knowing that the same sufferings are experienced by your brotherhood in the world. 10 But [f]may the God of all grace, who called [g]us to His eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after you have suffered a while, [h]perfect, establish, strengthen, and settle you. 11 To Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.

****************
As far as tares vs wheat, tares cannot turn into wheat, nor wheat into tares, God makes the wheat born of Him, which means He is their Father, and they are His child.

And the parable is from an eternal view point, as it is about the harvest of souls at the end of the world.
God has it all figured out, trust in Him.

We who believe are chosen in Him before the foundation of the world.
But the elect who will have faith still need to believe to be saved. No one is born saved.

We got a simple few versus from Christ about this thing.
He does say a good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.
So, once you are a new creation in Christ, you will not be a bad fruit bearer.
But there are lots of false brethren. Paul and the apostles warn us and them about that as did Christ about the fake news Christians, who have no root.

You Will Know Them by Their Fruits​

15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

Then there is the parable of the sower. Only the ones who bore good fruit to God are saved. If you do not bear good fruit, guess what, your eternal destiny is proven to be hellfire according to Christ. Only those who are 'of God' will bear the good fruit to God.
And one measure of good fruit is the fruit of our lips. Those who are of God will acknowledge Christ before men.
Since they are justified by grace and faith in Christ, no one can bring a charge against God's elect.

Romans 8:33
Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect [when it is] God Who justifies [that is, Who puts us in right relation to Himself? Who shall come forward and accuse or impeach those whom God has chosen? Will God, Who acquits us?]

32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? 33 Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.

Matthew 13

The Parable of the Sower​

1 On the same day Jesus went out of the house and sat by the sea. 2 And great multitudes were gathered together to Him, so that He got into a boat and sat; and the whole multitude stood on the shore.

3 Then He spoke many things to them in parables, saying: “Behold, a sower went out to sow. 4 And as he sowed, some seed fell by the wayside; and the birds came and devoured them. 5 Some fell on stony places, where they did not have much earth; and they immediately sprang up because they had no depth of earth. 6 But when the sun was up they were scorched, and because they had no root they withered away. 7 And some fell among thorns, and the thorns sprang up and choked them. 8 But others fell on good ground and yielded a crop: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty. 9 He who has ears to hear, let him hear!”

The Parable of the Sower Explained​

18 “Therefore hear the parable of the sower: 19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside. 20 But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. 22 Now he who received seed among the thorns is he who hears the word, and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful.

23 But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.”

 

[PinSeeker]

If you are Chosen from the foundation of the world in the Lamb's book of Life. You are born with sin like everyone else...

Right...

...but you were separated and different because God was in control of every moment of your life up to and after your salvation.

Hmmm... I both agree and disagree with this, in certain senses... I mean, as Job finally says to God in Job 42:2, "I know that you can do all things, and that no purpose of yours can be thwarted." God is always in control of what happens anywhere and to everyone, both making things to happen and allowing things to happen. As Isaiah says ~ quoting God, actually ~ "as the rain and the snow come down from heaven and do not return there but water the earth, making it bring forth and sprout, giving seed to the sower and bread to the eater, so shall My Word be that goes out from My mouth; it shall not return to Me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it." As Paul says in Romans 8:28, "for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to His purpose."

God knew you would be one of His children.

Right, but I was once not; originally my father was Satan, This is true of everyone from birth, even from conception, and this is the result of the fall of Adam and Eve, our first parents, as documented by Moses in Genesis 3.

The tares Jesus was talking about are those He knew were never going to be His.

Right, and He's speaking of the end of the age; those tares, who remain tares to the end of the age, will not be saved.

The tares could be in your family or your best friends, but

Absolutely.

Christians are separated in the womb.

In that they are chosen, yes, but they are not of God until they are born again of the Spirit. This is what we have to understand about the wheat and the tares, that the former, the wheat, are those who are of God, and the tares are those who are of the devil. All are, from birth, of the devil, but some do not remain so. The others are "given over" by God "to their own selfish passions and desires," as Paul says in Romans 1, and they remain in this state.

Follow up question - Satan is out there right now, I've talked to him. He is the deceiver and liar and father of lies. He isn't bound up.

In one sense he is not ~ he is able to deceive individuals ~ but in another sense he absolutely is, in the sense of what is said in Revelation 20:2-3, that he is absolutely restricted from deceiving the nations... whole people groups, all people groups except Israel; he absolutely cannot prevent the spread of the Gospel to Gentiles as well as Israel... peoples of every tongue, tribe, and nation. Thus Jesus's commission of us all in Matthew 28 to "make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded."

It is his demons that mess with people. Satan is a master manipulator, he knew your parents, grandparents, great grandparents, etc. Satan know what buttons to push. In Christ, he has no power at all.

Absolutely.

It behooves me how Christians can be deceived so easy.

Hmmm, well not me...

Teachers and preachers who preach what they conceive in their minds.

Often they do, yes. But that does not mean, necessarily, that they are not led by the Spirit to do so.

Just like you did.

I did not. <smile>

What did Jesus say when did He it.

<smile>

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Scott Downey]

About the New creation in Christ, Paul writing to the Corinthian church and not to the unbelieving world, it says,
we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God.

In all churches some have no saving relationship with God. Children are born to believing parents, they attend church, they participate, but this does not mean they are saved. Others come in from outside, attend services , does not mean they are saved.

Be Reconciled to God​

12 For we do not commend ourselves again to you, but give you opportunity to boast on our behalf, that you may have an answer for those who boast in appearance and not in heart. 13 For if we are beside ourselves, it is for God; or if we are of sound mind, it is for you. 14 For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all, then all died; 15 and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again.

16 Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer. 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. 18 Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not [d]imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

20 Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God. 21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

 

[PinSeeker]

To RockerDuck: Then why did you figure this out? Are you somebody special, Don? Or did this come up during your conversation with satan?

Ouch... <chuckles>

Grace and peace to you, Triumph.