Has "Christian Forums" become a Catholic site?

[The Gospel of Christ]

Brother I totally agree that we must not get carried away by the whole Hebrew roots thing and idolizing the Jews or Israel. I don't know much about the Khazarians, I've heard of that but don't know how much truth there is to it. But I do know that God knows who the real descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are....and their gifts and callings are without repentance......they can be discerned. I worked for seven years in a Jewish health care facility and got to know and discern Jewish people quite well in that time. God has not forgotten them and still calls out to them...they are still loved on account of the patriarchs....even though at different times some of them can be enemies for the gospel's sake.

As for Israel after the flesh, there IS still an Israel after the flesh (as well as the Israel of God of course)....and it is the Lord who raises and lowers kings and kingdoms in this world, both by what He allows and whether or not He intervenes in some way. So if Israel has become a nation again, it is because the Lord has allowed it and perhaps even made a way for it to happen. I believe there will be a harvest of souls there, as well as I'm sorry to say, the Lord showed me a strong deception associated with the rebuilt Temple. I believe the final strong delusion (that if it were possible it would deceive even the very elect) will be centred there. Maybe a move of God around the same time as the devil is making his last stand.

Sister, I appreciate your heart — and I agree with you on one key point:
God absolutely knows who are truly His, and yes, He still calls out to the descendants of Abraham — but only through the Gospel, not through the land, not through lineage, and not through Levitical shadows.

But here’s the danger:
When we say things like “there’s still an Israel after the flesh,” we begin to tread the same path Paul explicitly warned against in Romans 9:6:

“For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel.”

Why?
Because the covenant was never about flesh to begin with. Even Abraham's true children, Paul says, are those of the promise — not just DNA. (Romans 9:8)

When Paul says in Romans 11:28 that Jews are “beloved on account of the patriarchs,” he’s not handing modern Israel a pass. He’s saying God fulfilled His covenant with the patriarchs — in Christ.

And now, under the New Covenant, there is one olive tree — and only those grafted into Christ remain in it. Paul says clearly: "If they do not continue in unbelief, they will be grafted in."
That’s individual redemption through faith — not national restoration through warfare or political legitimacy.

You said:

“If Israel has become a nation again, it is because the Lord has allowed it...”

Sure — but the Lord also allowed Babylon to rise, Rome to crucify Christ, and Herod to massacre babies. Permission isn’t the same as approval. What God allows and what God blesses are not always the same thing.

As for “Israel after the flesh” — yes, it exists. But Scripture makes it clear:
That fleshly Israel has no covenantal privilege unless it enters through Christ.
Jesus is the gate. There is no backdoor through Abraham’s DNA. And the idea that God will somehow do a side-deal with the modern nation-state of Israel outside the Gospel is the exact lie Dispensationalism is built on.

You said you believe there will be a deception around the rebuilt Temple — and I fully agree.
But let’s not say “maybe” a move of God will happen around it.
That entire temple system was already judged and replaced.
To suggest His Spirit will endorse it again would be like saying Christ’s sacrifice wasn’t enough.

“Do you not know that your bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit?” — 1 Corinthians 6:19
“The Most High does not dwell in temples made by hands.” — Acts 17:24

So let me say this plainly:

The modern state of Israel is not a prophetic miracle.
It’s a geopolitical entity built on the rejection of Jesus Christ.
The only move of God that will happen there is individual repentance — the same as anywhere else on Earth.

There are not two peoples.
There is not “Israel after the flesh” and “Israel of the Spirit” on parallel tracks.
There is one Body, one Gospel, one promise — and that’s through Jesus alone.

So yes — God still calls to Jews. He loves them. He draws them.
But He doesn’t have two plans — one for them and one for us.
He has one Son. One cross. One covenant. One Church.

The moment the Church starts giving a theological pass to anyone outside of Christ —
we are no longer standing with Jesus.

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

The scriptures say you should assemble to worship the Lord…. The early Christians assembled to worship the Lord….You should assemble to worship the Lord.

The scriptures say to give to the church-congregation….the early Christians gave to the church-congregations….You should give to the church.

If you stood up in one of those congregations and said the things you said here they would consider you damn. All the study you do not to be a participate Christian is anti-Christian….you would be a good spokesman for the Anti-Christ. On Judgment say all this to Christ and see what happen. Excuses! Excuse! Excuses! Fire! Fire! Fire!

Ah, there it is — the Scofield meltdown.
Not a single verse refuting what I actually said — just threats, accusations, and a fantasy that Jesus is going to hurl me into hell because I won’t join a Zionist-flavored country club with a pulpit.

Let’s talk about “assembling” — yes, we’re told not to forsake the gathering of the saints (Hebrews 10:25).
But the verse doesn’t say where, it doesn’t say under whose hierarchy, and it sure doesn’t say submit to apostasy for the sake of optics.
It says to exhort one another — not get fleeced by wolves in suits selling tickets to the next prophecy conference.

I assemble with believers regularly — and when I do, Christ is the center, not the flag of a Christ-rejecting nation.
If you think God is impressed with buildings, budgets, and weekly programs while truth is trampled at the altar, then you’ve missed the entire point of the New Covenant.

As for giving — the early Christians didn’t tithe to megachurches with fog machines and ATM kiosks.
They gave to the needs of the saints — freely, joyfully, not under compulsion (2 Corinthians 9:7).
They sold land to feed the poor, not to fund $90 million jets or send weapons to a blood-soaked false Israel.

Now you want to imagine me “saying this to Jesus” on Judgment Day?
Gladly. I’ll say:

“Lord, I stood on Your Word. I refused to bow to counterfeit gospels. I refused to call unbelief blessed. I refused to replace the cross with a flag. I refused to worship the synagogue of Satan.”

And He’ll say — if His Word means anything:
“Well done, good and faithful servant.”

You call me anti-Christian?
That’s fine.
They said the same about Paul when he refused to bow to religious liars who boasted in circumcision and bloodline (Galatians 1–3).
I’m in good company.

You shout “Fire! Fire! Fire!” like that’s some kind of prophetic anointing.
But honestly?
That’s just the sound of Scofield’s blasphemous footnotes going up in flames.

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

Again, your entire argument is built on twisting Scripture to fit a theology that replaces God’s clear promises with your own redefinitions. You say I’m preaching a “second-track gospel,” but you’re the one cutting apart the Word of God to deny what He plainly said. God promised Abraham a land, a nation, and a blessing to all families of the earth (Genesis 12:1–3), and He confirmed it as an everlasting covenant (Genesis 17:7–8). The Hebrew word for everlasting is ‘olam, meaning perpetual and without end. You have no biblical authority to turn that into symbolism.

You quote 2 Corinthians 1:20, “All the promises of God in Him are yea,” as if that gives you the right to cancel the content of those promises. It doesn’t. That verse affirms God’s faithfulness, not your liberty to rewrite His Word. If God promises land, then fulfilling that in Christ doesn’t erase the land. Jesus didn’t come to spiritualize the Bible, He came to fulfill it exactly as it was written (Matthew 5:17–18). You’re twisting “fulfillment” into a license to gut every Old Testament prophecy and turn Israel into a metaphor. That’s not biblical interpretation, that’s deception.

Romans 11 destroys your view. Paul says God has not cast away His people (Romans 11:1–2), and he still calls Israel “beloved for the fathers’ sakes” (Romans 11:28). The Church has not replaced Israel, that lie is nowhere in Scripture. You mock the idea of Jesus returning to rule in a literal kingdom, yet Jesus said His apostles would sit on twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel (Matthew 19:28). That’s not symbolic, it’s a future literal reign. The disciples asked about the restoration of Israel after the resurrection (Acts 1:6–7), and Jesus didn’t correct them. He confirmed it was still coming, just not for them to know the timing.

You’re calling literal prophecy “Zionist propaganda” while promoting a theology that guts God’s Word and then accuses others of blasphemy for simply believing what it says. That is arrogant and spiritually dangerous. You say God fulfilled the land promises in Christ, but you can’t produce a single verse where the New Testament redefines the land, the nation, or the throne of David as purely symbolic. Jesus is the Seed, yes, but Galatians 3:29 says believers are Abraham’s seed according to the promise, not in place of the promises made to national Israel.

You accuse me of nationalism and idolatry, but you’re the one putting God’s faithfulness on trial and claiming His covenant with Israel was either a mistake or a metaphor. That’s not bold theology, that’s unbelief. Your version of faith makes God a liar, reduces prophecy to poetry, and replaces the eternal promises of God with vague spiritual slogans. That’s not magnifying Christ, that’s minimizing the authority of Scripture.

The real issue here is not politics or borders, it’s whether God says what He means. If you can’t accept the plain text of Scripture because it doesn’t fit your system, then your argument is not with me, it’s with God. And you will answer for it.

You keep talking about “plain reading” — but plain reading without Christ is blindness, not faith.

“To this day, whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their hearts.”
— 2 Corinthians 3:15

You said “God made an everlasting covenant with Abraham, including land.”
I agree. And Scripture tells us how that covenant is fulfilled:

“Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made...
He does not say, ‘and to seeds,’ as of many, but as of one — ‘And to your Seed,’ who is Christ.”
— Galatians 3:16

You said “the Hebrew word olam means forever.”
Sure — and so did the Levitical priesthood (Exodus 40:15), the temple ordinances (Leviticus 16:34), and the burning of incense (Exodus 30:8) — all called “everlasting” — and all fulfilled, ended, or superseded in Christ.

“In speaking of a new covenant, He makes the first one obsolete.”
— Hebrews 8:13

You said “fulfilling doesn’t mean spiritualizing.”
Exactly — fulfilling means completing. Jesus didn’t come to “spiritualize” the law — He came to embody it, fulfill it, and replace the shadows with substance:

“These are a shadow of things to come, but the reality is found in Christ.”
— Colossians 2:17

You cite Romans 11:1–2 — “Has God cast away His people?”
But Paul’s answer is clear: “I am an Israelite… of the tribe of Benjamin.”
He’s not saying national Israel gets a second covenant. He’s saying a remnant remains — and that remnant comes through faith in Christ.

“They are not all Israel who are of Israel.” — Romans 9:6

You quoted Romans 11:28 — “beloved for the fathers’ sake.”
But what does verse 23 say?

“If they do not continue in unbelief, they will be grafted in.”
That’s the condition. Not land. Not bloodline. Faith.
They’re beloved because the door is still open through Christ — not because they get a pass around Him.

You quote Matthew 19:28 as proof Jesus will reign in a literal land-based kingdom.
Funny — because in the very next chapter, Jesus enters Jerusalem, weeps over it, and says:

“Your house is left to you desolate.” — Matthew 23:38

That “throne of David” you keep waiting to see in Jerusalem?

“The Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David…”
— Luke 1:32
And where is He seated right now?
“He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high.” — Hebrews 1:3

That’s not symbolic. That’s present tense.

You cited Acts 1:6 — “Will You now restore the kingdom to Israel?”
Jesus doesn’t say “Yes, just wait a few dispensations.”
He says:

“It is not for you to know the times or seasons…”
And then what happens?
He ascends, the Spirit falls, and Peter declares:
“This is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel…” — Acts 2:16
The Kingdom had already begun — and they were still looking in the wrong direction.

You keep demanding land deeds and geopolitical fulfillment.
But the New Testament never points back to land. It points to Christ as the inheritance:

“In Him we have obtained an inheritance.” — Ephesians 1:11
“The meek shall inherit the earth.” — Matthew 5:5
“A better country — a heavenly one.” — Hebrews 11:16

Your problem isn’t that I “spiritualize” prophecy.
It’s that I center it in Christ — and you don’t.
You’ve exalted a secular nation over the Savior.
You’ve made unbelief sacred, and geography divine.

And worse — you accuse those who stand on the Gospel of “twisting Scripture” —
but you’ve twisted the entire purpose of Scripture: to testify of Jesus.

“You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life — but these are they which testify of Me.”
— John 5:39

You follow a system that says the Church is a pause button.
That Jesus will return not to judge the nations, but to reward the one that rejected Him.

You accuse others of arrogance?
No — your theology demotes Christ to a side character in His own story.

Let me make it plain:

Jesus didn’t die to bring people back to Sinai.
He died to bring them to Zion.

And any doctrine — I don’t care how many footnotes it has —
that puts a bloodline above the blood of Christ is not just wrong.
It’s a false gospel.

 

[Grailhunter]

Ah, there it is — the Scofield meltdown.
Not a single verse refuting what I actually said — just threats, accusations, and a fantasy that Jesus is going to hurl me into hell because I won’t join a Zionist-flavored country club with a pulpit.

Let’s talk about “assembling” — yes, we’re told not to forsake the gathering of the saints (Hebrews 10:25).
But the verse doesn’t say where, it doesn’t say under whose hierarchy, and it sure doesn’t say submit to apostasy for the sake of optics.
It says to exhort one another — not get fleeced by wolves in suits selling tickets to the next prophecy conference.

I assemble with believers regularly — and when I do, Christ is the center, not the flag of a Christ-rejecting nation.
If you think God is impressed with buildings, budgets, and weekly programs while truth is trampled at the altar, then you’ve missed the entire point of the New Covenant.

As for giving — the early Christians didn’t tithe to megachurches with fog machines and ATM kiosks.
They gave to the needs of the saints — freely, joyfully, not under compulsion (2 Corinthians 9:7).
They sold land to feed the poor, not to fund $90 million jets or send weapons to a blood-soaked false Israel.

Now you want to imagine me “saying this to Jesus” on Judgment Day?
Gladly. I’ll say:

“Lord, I stood on Your Word. I refused to bow to counterfeit gospels. I refused to call unbelief blessed. I refused to replace the cross with a flag. I refused to worship the synagogue of Satan.”

And He’ll say — if His Word means anything:
“Well done, good and faithful servant.”

You call me anti-Christian?
That’s fine.
They said the same about Paul when he refused to bow to religious liars who boasted in circumcision and bloodline (Galatians 1–3).
I’m in good company.

You shout “Fire! Fire! Fire!” like that’s some kind of prophetic anointing.
But honestly?
That’s just the sound of Scofield’s blasphemous footnotes going up in flames.

It is not that complex Sherlock. As it is Christianity is the simplest of religions there is. But it absolutely does not support or recognize non participants. Meaning no scripture supports non participation. Excuse regardless of how crafty will only land you in Hell.

 

[bdavidc]

Bible only is some where between a fallacy or a strange religion….Christ did not return.... Christianity continued and adopted the Gentile Wedding Ceremony….The scriptures do not require a Wedding Ceremony to be married….in the 16th century the Protestants made a church Wedding Ceremony a requirement to be married. Shortly after the Catholic Church made the same requirement.

As centuries continued Christianity established a moratorium on polygamy and concubinage and eventually slavery and fathers choosing their daughter's husband with money transfers. The scriptures never condemned or put a moratorium on polygamy and concubinage and slavery and fathers choosing their daughters husband with money transfers. As it is now they are working on women’s rights.

Bible only would still allow polygamy and concubinage and slavery and fathers selling their daughter as sex slaves…..Bible only supports a strange religion.

The point is Christianity continued to advance after the biblical era….God – the Holy Spirit continued to guide Christianity to a better religion.

What you just wrote is pure rebellion against the authority of God’s Word, and I will not entertain any more of your foolishness. You are not speaking by the Holy Spirit, you are speaking against the very Scriptures the Holy Spirit inspired. 2 Timothy 3:16–17 says, “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.” The Greek word for “inspiration” is theopneustos (θεόπνευστος), meaning God-breathed. God’s Word is not outdated, it is eternal truth.

You falsely claim that the Bible promotes slavery, polygamy, and sex trafficking. That is slander against the holy Word of God. The Bible records history, including man's sin, but that does not mean God condones it. Jesus clearly affirmed that “from the beginning it was not so” (Matthew 19:8) regarding multiple wives, affirming that God's design was one man and one woman (Genesis 2:24). Slavery as practiced in the ancient world is not equal to the racial slavery of modern times, and the New Testament calls masters to treat servants with justice and fairness (Colossians 4:1), while also commanding, “If thou mayest be made free, use it rather” (1 Corinthians 7:21).

You say “Bible only is a strange religion,” but Scripture says, “Thy word is truth” (John 17:17). The Holy Spirit does not guide people into a better religion, He guides them into all truth (John 16:13), and that truth never contradicts what He has already revealed. You are deceived. Jude 3 commands us to “earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.” That means the faith was delivered in full, not left open to human improvement. You are not advancing truth, you are rejecting it.

Your logic is carnal, worldly, and perverse. You speak like one who is wise in their own eyes, but Proverbs 14:12 warns, “There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.” You exalt human tradition and moral drift over the unchanging Word of God. For that, you will be held accountable.

I will not listen to any more of your blasphemous rhetoric. Titus 3:10–11 is clear, “A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject.” You have shown yourself to be that man. You have not spoken by the Spirit, you have spoken against Him. Repent, or face judgment.

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

It is not that complex Sherlock. As it is Christianity is the simplest of religions there is. But it absolutely does not support or recognize non participants. Meaning no scripture supports non participation. Excuse regardless of how crafty will only land you in Hell.

So now we’re back to the central dogma of Scofieldian religion:
“No participation = no salvation.”
Not obedience. Not faith. Not regeneration.
Just show up, tithe, and sit in the pew — or burn.

That’s not Christianity.
That’s clerical extortion with a Bible verse stapled to it.

You say, “No scripture supports non-participation.”
But I’ve already told you: I do participate — just not in your counterfeit circus.
I gather with believers. I worship Christ. I exhort the saints.
What I don’t do is submit to spiritual gaslighting from people who think flying a Zionist flag stamped with the Star of Remphan over their pulpit somehow earns them bonus righteousness.

“Where two or three are gathered in My name, there am I in the midst of them.” — Matthew 18:20

He didn’t say “where 300 are gathered under a 501(c)(3) building with fog lights and a sound team.”

Your logic is pure Pharisee:
“You’re not part of our system, so you must be lost.”
That’s exactly what they said to the blind man Jesus healed in John 9.
They tossed him out of synagogue participation — and Jesus went and found him.

You want simple? Here it is:
“He who has the Son has life.” — 1 John 5:12
Not: he who shows up every Sunday to cheer for unbelieving False Israel™ and fill out a tithe envelope.

You’re shouting “Hell! Hell! Hell!” like a preacher with no Gospel.
But threats don’t scare people who’ve actually read the New Testament.
You can scream “non-participant!” all you want —
but I’d rather be found faithful outside your temple than deceived inside it.

You’ve mistaken external alignment for internal transformation.
You’ve traded the Shepherd’s voice for the crowd’s applause.
And unless you repent, you’ll stand before Christ — the same Christ who said:

“Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord...’ and I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you.’” — Matthew 7:22–23

Not because they didn’t participate —
but because they were never born again.

 

[Grailhunter]

What you just wrote is pure rebellion against the authority of God’s Word, and I will not entertain any more of your foolishness. You are not speaking by the Holy Spirit, you are speaking against the very Scriptures the Holy Spirit inspired. 2 Timothy 3:16–17 says, “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.” The Greek word for “inspiration” is theopneustos (θεόπνευστος), meaning God-breathed. God’s Word is not outdated, it is eternal truth.

You falsely claim that the Bible promotes slavery, polygamy, and sex trafficking. That is slander against the holy Word of God. The Bible records history, including man's sin, but that does not mean God condones it. Jesus clearly affirmed that “from the beginning it was not so” (Matthew 19:8) regarding multiple wives, affirming that God's design was one man and one woman (Genesis 2:24). Slavery as practiced in the ancient world is not equal to the racial slavery of modern times, and the New Testament calls masters to treat servants with justice and fairness (Colossians 4:1), while also commanding, “If thou mayest be made free, use it rather” (1 Corinthians 7:21).

You say “Bible only is a strange religion,” but Scripture says, “Thy word is truth” (John 17:17). The Holy Spirit does not guide people into a better religion, He guides them into all truth (John 16:13), and that truth never contradicts what He has already revealed. You are deceived. Jude 3 commands us to “earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.” That means the faith was delivered in full, not left open to human improvement. You are not advancing truth, you are rejecting it.

Your logic is carnal, worldly, and perverse. You speak like one who is wise in their own eyes, but Proverbs 14:12 warns, “There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.” You exalt human tradition and moral drift over the unchanging Word of God. For that, you will be held accountable.

I will not listen to any more of your blasphemous rhetoric. Titus 3:10–11 is clear, “A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject.” You have shown yourself to be that man. You have not spoken by the Spirit, you have spoken against Him. Repent, or face judgment.

You are the one saying Bible Only. As they say….you can’t have your cake and eat it to.

 

[Grailhunter]

So now we’re back to the central dogma of Scofieldian religion:
“No participation = no salvation.”
Not obedience. Not faith. Not regeneration.
Just show up, tithe, and sit in the pew — or burn.

That’s not Christianity.
That’s clerical extortion with a Bible verse stapled to it.

You say, “No scripture supports non-participation.”
But I’ve already told you: I do participate — just not in your counterfeit circus.
I gather with believers. I worship Christ. I exhort the saints.
What I don’t do is submit to spiritual gaslighting from people who think flying a Zionist flag stamped with the Star of Remphan over their pulpit somehow earns them bonus righteousness.

“Where two or three are gathered in My name, there am I in the midst of them.” — Matthew 18:20

He didn’t say “where 300 are gathered under a 501(c)(3) building with fog lights and a sound team.”

Your logic is pure Pharisee:
“You’re not part of our system, so you must be lost.”
That’s exactly what they said to the blind man Jesus healed in John 9.
They tossed him out of synagogue participation — and Jesus went and found him.

You want simple? Here it is:
“He who has the Son has life.” — 1 John 5:12
Not: he who shows up every Sunday to cheer for unbelieving False Israel™ and fill out a tithe envelope.

You’re shouting “Hell! Hell! Hell!” like a preacher with no Gospel.
But threats don’t scare people who’ve actually read the New Testament.
You can scream “non-participant!” all you want —
but I’d rather be found faithful outside your temple than deceived inside it.

You’ve mistaken external alignment for internal transformation.
You’ve traded the Shepherd’s voice for the crowd’s applause.
And unless you repent, you’ll stand before Christ — the same Christ who said:

“Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord...’ and I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you.’” — Matthew 7:22–23

Not because they didn’t participate —
but because they were never born again.

I am just following scripture.....have fun on judgment day

 

[bdavidc]

You accuse others of arrogance?
No — your theology demotes Christ to a side character in His own story.

Your entire reply is a masterclass in twisting Scripture while accusing others of doing exactly what you are guilty of. You quote verses, but rip them out of context to prop up a theology that denies God’s integrity, rewrites His covenants, and redefines His promises. You use Galatians 3:16 to claim that all the promises to Abraham are fulfilled only in Christ as the singular Seed, but you conveniently ignore that Paul also says in Romans 15:8 that “Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers.” Confirm, not cancel. Fulfill, not reinterpret. God doesn’t speak one way in Genesis and mean something completely different in Galatians.

You mock “plain reading,” yet Jesus said, “Have ye not read…” again and again, because the Word of God is clear to those who are not blinded by unbelief (Matthew 22:31, John 10:35). You cite Hebrews 8:13 as if it voids God's everlasting covenant with Abraham, but the context of Hebrews is about the Mosaic Covenant, not the unconditional promise of land and nation made in Genesis 12 and reaffirmed in Genesis 15 and 17. The Greek word diathēkē (διαθήκη) refers to covenant, and nowhere does Scripture say the Abrahamic Covenant was made obsolete. It says the old covenant of law was.

You say the kingdom began in Acts 2, but that is false. The disciples asked in Acts 1:6, “Wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?” and Jesus did not rebuke their question. He said, “It is not for you to know the times…” meaning it will happen, just not now. That is not spiritualizing, that is reading what is plainly there. Jesus promised in Matthew 19:28 that the twelve apostles will sit on twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel. If that is symbolic, then so is the resurrection, the return of Christ, and every other future promise.

You accuse me of exalting a secular nation, but what I exalt is the faithfulness of God. Romans 11:28 says Israel is “beloved for the fathers’ sakes,” and verse 29 immediately adds, “For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.” You can't spiritualize that into irrelevance. Paul says the natural branches will be grafted back in (Romans 11:24), and if you deny that, then you are the one cutting Scripture to pieces. You are not centering Christ, you are replacing His promises with theological spin.

Your claim that Jesus is now sitting on David’s throne is unbiblical. The throne of David is on earth, in Jerusalem, not in heaven. That is why the angel said, “He shall reign over the house of Jacob forever” (Luke 1:33). Jacob is Israel. That is not symbolic, it is literal. Christ is seated now at the right hand of the Father, yes, but He has not yet taken the throne of David. That will happen at His return (Revelation 20:4–6).

You have shown that you do not believe God means what He says. You scoff at the idea that Jesus will reign from Jerusalem, despite Zechariah 14:4 stating clearly that His feet shall stand on the Mount of Olives. You replace the plain promises of Scripture with abstract theology and then dare to call it gospel. But Galatians 1:8 warns that any gospel not rooted in the truth originally delivered is accursed.

I will not listen to any more of your foolishness. Titus 3:10 says to reject a divisive man after the first and second warning, and you have received more than enough. You are not defending Christ, you are demoting His Word and turning His promises into riddles. The gospel is about grace through faith, but it is also about trusting the God who keeps His Word exactly as He gave it. If you don’t believe that, then your argument is not with me, it is with God Himself.

And let me make it absolutely clear, you are the one promoting a false gospel. You have taken the clear promises of God and twisted them to fit a man-centered system that denies His faithfulness and redefines the inheritance He promised. You are not upholding Christ, you are using His name to undermine what He confirmed. That is not biblical truth, it is deception. And I will have no part in it.

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

Your entire reply is a masterclass in twisting Scripture while accusing others of doing exactly what you are guilty of. You quote verses, but rip them out of context to prop up a theology that denies God’s integrity, rewrites His covenants, and redefines His promises. You use Galatians 3:16 to claim that all the promises to Abraham are fulfilled only in Christ as the singular Seed, but you conveniently ignore that Paul also says in Romans 15:8 that “Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers.” Confirm, not cancel. Fulfill, not reinterpret. God doesn’t speak one way in Genesis and mean something completely different in Galatians.

You mock “plain reading,” yet Jesus said, “Have ye not read…” again and again, because the Word of God is clear to those who are not blinded by unbelief (Matthew 22:31, John 10:35). You cite Hebrews 8:13 as if it voids God's everlasting covenant with Abraham, but the context of Hebrews is about the Mosaic Covenant, not the unconditional promise of land and nation made in Genesis 12 and reaffirmed in Genesis 15 and 17. The Greek word diathēkē (διαθήκη) refers to covenant, and nowhere does Scripture say the Abrahamic Covenant was made obsolete. It says the old covenant of law was.

You say the kingdom began in Acts 2, but that is false. The disciples asked in Acts 1:6, “Wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?” and Jesus did not rebuke their question. He said, “It is not for you to know the times…” meaning it will happen, just not now. That is not spiritualizing, that is reading what is plainly there. Jesus promised in Matthew 19:28 that the twelve apostles will sit on twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel. If that is symbolic, then so is the resurrection, the return of Christ, and every other future promise.

You accuse me of exalting a secular nation, but what I exalt is the faithfulness of God. Romans 11:28 says Israel is “beloved for the fathers’ sakes,” and verse 29 immediately adds, “For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.” You can't spiritualize that into irrelevance. Paul says the natural branches will be grafted back in (Romans 11:24), and if you deny that, then you are the one cutting Scripture to pieces. You are not centering Christ, you are replacing His promises with theological spin.

Your claim that Jesus is now sitting on David’s throne is unbiblical. The throne of David is on earth, in Jerusalem, not in heaven. That is why the angel said, “He shall reign over the house of Jacob forever” (Luke 1:33). Jacob is Israel. That is not symbolic, it is literal. Christ is seated now at the right hand of the Father, yes, but He has not yet taken the throne of David. That will happen at His return (Revelation 20:4–6).

You have shown that you do not believe God means what He says. You scoff at the idea that Jesus will reign from Jerusalem, despite Zechariah 14:4 stating clearly that His feet shall stand on the Mount of Olives. You replace the plain promises of Scripture with abstract theology and then dare to call it gospel. But Galatians 1:8 warns that any gospel not rooted in the truth originally delivered is accursed.

I will not listen to any more of your foolishness. Titus 3:10 says to reject a divisive man after the first and second warning, and you have received more than enough. You are not defending Christ, you are demoting His Word and turning His promises into riddles. The gospel is about grace through faith, but it is also about trusting the God who keeps His Word exactly as He gave it. If you don’t believe that, then your argument is not with me, it is with God Himself.

And let me make it absolutely clear, you are the one promoting a false gospel. You have taken the clear promises of God and twisted them to fit a man-centered system that denies His faithfulness and redefines the inheritance He promised. You are not upholding Christ, you are using His name to undermine what He confirmed. That is not biblical truth, it is deception. And I will have no part in it.

You say I twist Scripture? No — I expose the lies propped up by a system that demotes Christ to a placeholder in a Zionist fantasy.

Let’s start with Romans 15:8:
Yes, “Christ was a minister to the circumcision to confirm the promises made to the fathers.”
But what were those promises?
Paul explains in the very next breath — “that the Gentiles might glorify God for His mercy” (v9).
The promises weren’t about land — they were about mercy. About Christ. About uniting Jew and Gentile into one new body (Eph 2:14–16).
You quote confirm, but ignore that Christ fulfilled the Law, fulfilled the Prophets, and fulfilled every shadow (Matthew 5:17, Luke 24:27, Hebrews 10:1).

To confirm doesn’t mean “postpone for geopolitical Israel” — it means embody and complete.

The New Covenant isn’t about dirt in the Middle East. It’s about the blood of Christ.

“The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say ‘and to seeds,’ as of many, but as of one: ‘And to your seed,’ who is Christ.” — Galatians 3:16

“And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.” — Galatians 3:29
No side covenants. No dual inheritances. No separate plans.

You say I void the Abrahamic Covenant?
No — I preach its true fulfillment.

The Mosaic Covenant was temporary and conditional (Hebrews 8:13).
The Abrahamic promise — fulfilled in Christ — was never about ethnicity. It was about faith (Romans 4:13, Galatians 3:7).
Christ is the promised Seed. The land promise was a shadow. The people of God were always those of faith.

You’re stuck in types and shadows, and refuse to acknowledge the light has come.

You say the Kingdom hasn’t started?
Then what was Pentecost — a dress rehearsal?

Jesus said plainly:
“The Kingdom of God does not come with observation... for indeed, the Kingdom of God is within you.” — Luke 17:20–21
“If I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the Kingdom of God has come upon you.” — Matthew 12:28
“My Kingdom is not of this world.” — John 18:36

Peter declared the risen Christ was already seated on David’s throne:
“God had sworn an oath… that He would raise up Christ to sit on his throne... this Jesus God has raised up… therefore being exalted to the right hand of God...” — Acts 2:30–33

David’s throne isn’t in a Jerusalem tourist trap under U.N. guard.
It’s at the right hand of the Father — and Christ is reigning now.

You cite Matthew 19:28 as proof of a future geopolitical throne?
Yes, the apostles will judge the twelve tribes — and they’re doing that now, through the gospel.
Each time someone repents and believes, the Word judges their tribe.
And Revelation 20? That “millennium” is symbolic — just like the sword in Christ’s mouth and the beast with seven heads.
The early Church never taught a literal thousand-year earthly reign.
That came later — with the rise of political Zionism and Darby’s dispensational circus.

You throw Romans 11 like a grenade, but let’s read it honestly.

The “natural branches” can be grafted in only through faith in Christ (Rom 11:23).
Paul’s hope wasn’t for ethnic supremacy — it was that the Jews would abandon unbelief and join the body.
The “all Israel” that will be saved? It’s the Israel of God — not a passport nation, but those “in Christ” (Galatians 6:16).
That’s the remnant — not the Knesset.

You invoke Luke 1:33 — that Christ will reign over Jacob forever?

He is — but “not all Israel is Israel” (Romans 9:6).
Jacob has been renamed. His name is now Jesus.
He reigns over the new Israel — His Church.
You’re still waiting for Jesus to walk down Ben Yehuda Street while He’s ruling the cosmos.

You accuse me of spiritualizing?

Brother, the New Covenant is spiritual.
It’s written on hearts, not stone. It’s ratified in blood, not borders.
It includes people of every tribe and tongue — not just the circumcised.

“The true Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is of the heart, by the Spirit...” — Romans 2:29

You want to return to shadows and genealogies — Christ calls you forward into the light of fulfillment.

As for Galatians 1:8?

That curse applies to your gospel — not mine.

Because your gospel says Jesus didn’t finish it.
Your gospel says the Church is Plan B.
Your gospel says God shows partiality to bloodlines.

“God is no respecter of persons.” — Acts 10:34
“In Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek…” — Galatians 3:28

Your gospel isn’t the gospel of Jesus Christ.
It’s Scofield’s — a man-made delusion dressed in footnotes.
And I reject it — fully, publicly, and without apology.
And anyone who truly wants to walk with the Lord should do the same.

 

[Brakelite]

Over 30,000 Protestants denominations with differing beliefs. You surely have beliefs that are different than other Protestants. As it is now because there are so many denominations that believe differently, and differently than you, it does not justify singling the Catholics out to condemn them. And again as it is now differing beliefs are a norm. As I said, I am use to this sort of thing, but it is not smart or rational or justifiable.

There are things however that all Protestantism shares, and which Catholicism has on her own. And the reformation was not a rebellion as certain Catholics would have you believe. The reformation, still ongoing by the way, while it has thus far resulted in a myriad of disunited and disparate groups, was and is still a searching for truth. Truth that Catholicism enshrouded in mystery, and trod under foot.
Take for example the very foundation of the gospel...the sacrifice of Christ for man. Official Catholic teaching has Christ dying as an example of humility, but not dying for you. In Catholic theology, your salvation is based on merit. Some yours, but most belonging to others, whether it be Mary, Jesus, or the saints. If you come up short, then the Vatican merit bank will help you out. But first, you need to prove yourself worthy by going through purgatory. Of course, while there, those on earth can buy indulgences with either money or pilgrimages or attendance at certain arranged masses at appointed times to gain merit that can be deposited into your account and assist your early release.
The above, along with numerous other doctrines and canons and dogmas of the church provide a sum total of confusion and error that displaces Christ from His true position as sole Mediator, and places the church itself through its own sense of authority that is ranked above scripture, as Mediator and ultimate authority in who is and who isn't saved. Thus they thought to have the right to murder millions by burning them at the stake, thus thinking to hasten their journey to glory without impeding others along the way. This system that replaces Christ with Mary and saints and popes, the protestants rightly identified as Antichrist. They weren't wrong. Although protestants today, who really are no longer protestants, have gone the politically correct route and shied away from such pointed accusations and gone to the other extreme and joined with her ecumenical ideas of union. To do this however, protestants must deny history, their own purpose in God's establishing them in the first place, and biblical prophecy. Which places them in the inevitable and unenviable position of being in danger of receiving the very same condemnation reserved for the Antichrist, false prophet, and the dragon.
For some of us, the protest is not over, and nor will it ever be until Jesus comes.

 

[Grailhunter]

There are things however that all Protestantism shares, and which Catholicism has on her own. And the reformation was not a rebellion as certain Catholics would have you believe. The reformation, still ongoing by the way, while it has thus far resulted in a myriad of disunited and disparate groups, was and is still a searching for truth. Truth that Catholicism enshrouded in mystery, and trod under foot.
Take for example the very foundation of the gospel...the sacrifice of Christ for man. Official Catholic teaching has Christ dying as an example of humility, but not dying for you. In Catholic theology, your salvation is based on merit. Some yours, but most belonging to others, whether it be Mary, Jesus, or the saints. If you come up short, then the Vatican merit bank will help you out. But first, you need to prove yourself worthy by going through purgatory. Of course, while there, those on earth can buy indulgences with either money or pilgrimages or attendance at certain arranged masses at appointed times to gain merit that can be deposited into your account and assist your early release.
The above, along with numerous other doctrines and canons and dogmas of the church provide a sum total of confusion and error that displaces Christ from His true position as sole Mediator, and places the church itself through its own sense of authority that is ranked above scripture, as Mediator and ultimate authority in who is and who isn't saved. Thus they thought to have the right to murder millions by burning them at the stake, thus thinking to hasten their journey to glory without impeding others along the way. This system that replaces Christ with Mary and saints and popes, the protestants rightly identified as Antichrist. They weren't wrong. Although protestants today, who really are no longer protestants, have gone the politically correct route and shied away from such pointed accusations and gone to the other extreme and joined with her ecumenical ideas of union. To do this however, protestants must deny history, their own purpose in God's establishing them in the first place, and biblical prophecy. Which places them in the inevitable and unenviable position of being in danger of receiving the very same condemnation reserved for the Antichrist, false prophet, and the dragon.
For some of us, the protest is not over, and nor will it ever be until Jesus comes.

There are some truths and some inaccuracies here. They are not the only denomination to have Uniquenesses. What we are doing her is looking for a reason to be critical. If we were to look at the 30,000 Protestant denominations we could find fault. Just the fact that there are so many of them means something is wrong. And there are some odd ones to. But I am going to lean more toward loving Christians and look to stand with them to worship the Lord and stand with them against our enemies.

 

[Brakelite]

There some truths and some inaccuracies here. They are not the only denomination to have Uniquenesses. What we are doing her is looking for a reason to be critical. If we were to look at the 30,000 Protestant denominations we could find fault. Just the fact that there are so many of them means something is wrong. And there are some odd ones to. But I am going to lean more toward loving Christians and look to stand with them to worship the Lord and stand with them against our enemies.

Very ecumenical. Rome, the institution sworn to dominate the world and enforce her religion globally, I am sure loves you too.

 

[Grailhunter]

Very ecumenical. Rome, the institution sworn to dominate the world and enforce her religion globally, I am sure loves you too.

For the humor side of it…..
Just how many churches do you think Yeshua had in mine?
The Catholics do believe they are the one true Church.
So do the Protestants….either their denomination….their church or what they have formulated in their Lazy-Boy.
It kind of runs the lines of beliefs…..the difference at one time the Catholic Church had limitless power.

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

What the Catholics Get Right

Salvation Plan: One covenant, fulfilled in Christ — not two tracks for Jew and Gentile

Rapture: Rejected; Christ returns once, publicly, at the end of the age — not in secret phases. This was the belief of the early Church Fathers.

Israel: Fulfilled in the Church. There is no separate, ongoing plan for ethnic Israel apart from the Gospel.
If someone calls themselves a Jew but rejects Jesus as the Messiah, they are outside the covenant of salvation — just like anyone else who refuses Him. Catholic teaching, like Scripture, is clear: no one is saved apart from Christ.

Covenant History: Progressive revelation fulfilled in Jesus — not cut into dispensations

Prophecy: Interpreted through typology, Christological fulfillment, and the Church Age


Where the Catholic Church Goes Off the Rails

Vatican Power Structure: Corrupted hierarchy; functions more like a political empire than a spiritual body

Idolatry and Ritualism: Veneration of saints and Mary can cross into worship territory

Works-Based Legalism: Overemphasis on sacraments and tradition as necessary for salvation

Mystery Religion Symbols: Pagan architecture, serpent imagery, and globalist interfaith compromises

Scripture Access: Historically limited lay access to the Bible; elevated papal authority above scripture


What Dispensationalist Evangelicals Get Right

Authority of Scripture: The Bible is the final and highest authority, not popes or church councils

Born Again Doctrine: Emphasis on personal salvation through faith in Jesus Christ

Evangelism: Urgent focus on spreading the Gospel to all nations

Rejection of Ritualism: Values relationship with Christ over empty tradition

Role of the Holy Spirit: Acknowledges the active presence and power of the Holy Spirit in believers


What Dispensationalist Evangelicals Get Horribly Wrong (Thanks to Scofield Heresy)

Two Plans of Salvation: Claims Jews have a separate covenant path — undermines the sufficiency of Christ

Pre-Trib Rapture: Teaches an unbiblical two-phase return of Jesus based on cherry-picked verses

Political Zionism as “God’s Will”: Confuses modern secular Israel with the true, biblical people of God — even though the nation as a whole rejects Jesus Christ. It doesn’t even dawn on most brainwashed Dispensationalists that over 98% of modern “Israelis” are Ashkenazi — descendants of Eastern Europeans and Russians who have no historical or genetic connection to Abraham whatsoever. They're about as related to Abraham as Hulk Hogan, SpongeBob and Genghis Khan.

Church as Parenthesis: Treats the Church Age as an interruption instead of the fulfillment of prophecy

Artificial Bible Division: Uses Scofield’s man-made footnotes to override clear New Testament teaching


The Bottom Line:

The Catholic Church preserved covenant theology and rejected the blasphemous, Scofield circus — but compromised it with institutional corruption, idolatry, and works-based tradition.

The Evangelical world rediscovered Scripture and the born-again life — but got seduced by Scofield’s dual-covenant, Zionist distortion that fractures the Gospel.

Both systems need to be reformed by the authority of Christ and the clarity of His Word.

To the lost Dispensationalists, I'll leave you with this...

The true Israel is the Body of Christ — one people, one covenant, one King. If you're a so-called "Christian" and you don't know that; you're beyond misled.

You’re not just lost — you’re way out in the wilderness of Nod, stumbling through darkness and delusion.
There’s a veil over your eyes and a bewitching on your soul —
and honestly, it might be the most biblical level of deception the modern Church has ever witnessed.
Jesus and the Apostles are looking down from heaven — eyebrows raised, faces in their hands — stunned at how far off the path you’ve wandered.

“But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Covenant, because the veil is taken away in Christ.” — 2 Corinthians 3:14

You’re clinging to the shadows of a covenant that was fulfilled 2,000 years ago —
propping up a U.N.-sanctioned, Rothschild-created political state,
as if salvation lives in dirt and barbed wire - totally ignorant to the fact that the Body of Christ is Israel.
Paul saw it coming. He warned us.
The veil still lies over your heart because you refuse to turn fully to Christ.
You’re not reading prophecy — you’re reading it wrong.
And until you stop exalting the letter over the Lord,
you’ll stay exactly where you are:
veiled, bewitched, and wandering east of Eden.

 

[Taken]

What the Catholics Get Right

Salvation Plan: One covenant, fulfilled in Christ — not two tracks for Jew and Gentile

Rapture: Rejected; Christ returns once, publicly, at the end of the age — not in secret phases. This was the belief of the early Church Fathers.

Israel: Fulfilled in the Church. There is no separate, ongoing plan for ethnic Israel apart from the Gospel.
If someone calls themselves a Jew but rejects Jesus as the Messiah, they are outside the covenant of salvation — just like anyone else who refuses Him. Catholic teaching, like Scripture, is clear: no one is saved apart from Christ.

Covenant History: Progressive revelation fulfilled in Jesus — not cut into dispensations

Prophecy: Interpreted through typology, Christological fulfillment, and the Church Age


Where the Catholic Church Goes Off the Rails

Vatican Power Structure: Corrupted hierarchy; functions more like a political empire than a spiritual body

Idolatry and Ritualism: Veneration of saints and Mary can cross into worship territory

Works-Based Legalism: Overemphasis on sacraments and tradition as necessary for salvation

Mystery Religion Symbols: Pagan architecture, serpent imagery, and globalist interfaith compromises

Scripture Access: Historically limited lay access to the Bible; elevated papal authority above scripture


What Dispensationalist Evangelicals Get Right

Authority of Scripture: The Bible is the final and highest authority, not popes or church councils

Born Again Doctrine: Emphasis on personal salvation through faith in Jesus Christ

Evangelism: Urgent focus on spreading the Gospel to all nations

Rejection of Ritualism: Values relationship with Christ over empty tradition

Role of the Holy Spirit: Acknowledges the active presence and power of the Holy Spirit in believers


What Dispensationalist Evangelicals Get Horribly Wrong (Thanks to Scofield Heresy)

Two Plans of Salvation: Claims Jews have a separate covenant path — undermines the sufficiency of Christ

Pre-Trib Rapture: Teaches an unbiblical two-phase return of Jesus based on cherry-picked verses

Political Zionism as “God’s Will”: Confuses modern secular Israel with the true, biblical people of God — even though the nation as a whole rejects Jesus Christ. It doesn’t even dawn on most brainwashed Dispensationalists that over 98% of modern “Israelis” are Ashkenazi — descendants of Eastern Europeans and Russians who have no historical or genetic connection to Abraham whatsoever. They're about as related to Abraham as Hulk Hogan, SpongeBob and Genghis Khan.

Church as Parenthesis: Treats the Church Age as an interruption instead of the fulfillment of prophecy

Artificial Bible Division: Uses Scofield’s man-made footnotes to override clear New Testament teaching


The Bottom Line:

The Catholic Church preserved covenant theology and rejected the blasphemous, Scofield circus — but compromised it with institutional corruption, idolatry, and works-based tradition.

The Evangelical world rediscovered Scripture and the born-again life — but got seduced by Scofield’s dual-covenant, Zionist distortion that fractures the Gospel.

Both systems need to be reformed by the authority of Christ and the clarity of His Word.

The true Israel is the Body of Christ — one people, one covenant, one King.

Thanks for your clarifying … WHO you assign to WHAT “box / Tag”.
(Israel, Zionist, Evangelical, Dispensationalists, Scofield, OSAS, Catholicism, Protestants, etc.)

Every individual WHO, has “some” agreement that “parallels” one of those such “Tags”…apparently must be “assigned” that Tag, by “accusation.”

Personally, I have agreements and disagreements with “ALL” of the “man-made” Religious Organizations, thus do not “fit” in any one “man made box”…
Yet, have had “strangers” Dictate my standing, then Bash, what they have Dictated, “for me”.

Christ Jesus Revealed a mans ever lasting standing “WITH Him”….
IS an individuals FREE Choosing and willingness to Become MADE By, Through, Of the Offering and Power of God;
Converted IN Christ…
“Effected While” the mans natural Body IS Still Naturally (Blood) Alive.
(Called, IN Christ).
And Shall be Sealed, Redeemed, Claimed, Risen up; By Christ Jesus. (Rapture)

God Revealed a mans ever lasting standing “With Him”…
IS an individuals FREE Choosing and willingness to Become MADE By, Through, Of the Offering and Power of God;
“Effected After” the mans natural Body IS Naturally (Blood) Physically Dead.
(Called; son of God)
And Shall be Sealed, Redeemed, Claimed, Risen up; By God (First Resurrection)

Gods ORDER and WAY.

From the beginning of ManKIND…Divisions.
Some men First.
Some men Last.
Some men Destroyed.
Some men Accept.
Some men Reject.
Some men Ignore.

In the END… BIG Picture.
They: “MADE” IN Christ Jesus.
They: “MADE” sons of God.
All shall be IN ONE HAND of:
The Lord God Almighty:
His “inheritance” forever.

And They: NOT in the Hand of the Lord God Almighty?
Lifeless, Destroyed, Remembered no more.

Mans Boxes, Tags, “adopted” by individuals or “assigned” by others…(pastime argued, debated, accused amongst men) big picture…irrelevant.

[Christ Jesus Shall Save and Raise up Whom IS MADE IN Christ.
God Shall Save and Raise up Whom IS MADE His son.

Gods Order and Way.

Glory to God,
Taken