The Bible is Father-Centric not Christo-Centric

[Behold]

Crying doesn't change facts

Im showing the other member that Thomas understood the Divinity of Jesus before any denomiation existed, including yours.

= Think.

 

[Matthias]

Thomas understood that God is "up there".. and "Jesus who is God".. is right here in the room with me"..

You dont seem to comprehend this yet...........so, i'll leave you to cut and paste the same reduntant nothing, for the 3rd time. @Matthias

I’m speaking past you at this point.

Thomas himself is a Jewish monotheist. Jesus himself is a Jewish monotheist. I myself am a Jewish monotheist. There is consistency in their / my Jewish theology which doesn’t exist in other theologies.

 

[Behold]

Jesus - whom we have been able to agree is in some sense God -

"God the Son".

 

[Matthias]

"God the Son".

Not in Jewish monotheism. In Jewish monotheism, “the Son of God”.

 

[Matthias]

Jesus is focused on his God and Father, not on himself. To tie it in with the OP: Jesus himself is Father-centric, not Messiah-centric.

 

[Behold]

Not in Jewish monotheism. In Jewish monotheism, “the Son of God”.

But the NT is not written in "Jewish monotheism".

You understand this?

Thomas did, and so did John 1, and so did Paul.....who were all Jews.

 

[Matthias]

But the NT is not written in "Jewish monotheism".

The context of the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament is Jewish monotheism.

You understand this?

You either don’t understand what I said or you deny it.

Thomas did, and so did John 1, and so did Paul.....who were all Jews.

They all believed in the same one God -> the God of Jewish monotheism.

Jesus is the Messiah, Son of God. Any standard Bible Concordance will quickly and easily confirm it.

 

[Behold]

The context of the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament is Jewish monotheism.

In the Torah........you could argue that point, but when you try to create the NT, that is a New Covenant, as the same.
Then you failed

They all believed in the same one God -> the God of Jewish monotheism.

And 3 of them (John, Paul, Thomas)... told you that God was manifested in the Flesh, and He was never that previously in Heaven, when they wrote those words.

You fail to understand this., again.

 

[nedsk]

Im showing the other member that Thomas understood the Divinity of Jesus before any denomiation existed, including yours.

= Think.

I just know. The fathers of the church were Catholic. That's not a opinion. If you read them it's clear.

 

[Behold]

I just know. The fathers of the church were Catholic. That's not a opinion. If you read them it's clear.

Jesus is not a Catholic.
Paul is not a Catholic.
Christianity is "the Body of Christ".. "the Church".

There is a cult that took a word........that means """universal""", and tried to create the illusion that IT is the Entire body of Christ.

Its not......its just one more denomination, that has an obsession with Mary., and had literally murdered more Human Beings worldwide then any other Cult, other then Marxism, or Islam.

 

[Matthias]

In the Torah........you could argue that point, but when you try to create the NT, that is a New Covenant, as the same.
Then you failed

I didn’t create the New Testament. I’ve documented many times over - using scripture and the concessions of trinitarian sources - that the one God of the Hebrew Bible is the one God of the New Testament.

And 3 of them (John, Paul, Thomas)... told you that God was manifested in the Flesh, and He was never that previously in Heaven, when they wrote those words.

I’ve agreed with your assertion so many times already that I don’t see agreeing with it again will get through to you.

You fail to understand this., again.

Again, I understand it within the constraints of history and within the context of Jewish monotheism. You don’t.

 

[nedsk]

Jesus is not a Catholic.
Paul is not a Catholic.
Christianity is "the Body of Christ".. "the Church".

There is a cult that took a word........that means """universal""", and tried to create the illusion that IT is the Entire body of Christ.

Its not......its just one more denomination, that has an obsession with Mary., and had literally murdered more Human Beings worldwide then any other Cult, other then Marxism, or Islam.

And? The facts remain the earliest Christians were Catholic. Don't get huffy with me about facts.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Jesus is not a Catholic.
Paul is not a Catholic.
Christianity is "the Body of Christ".. "the Church".

Of course Jesus isn't a Catholic. He isn't a Christian at all, Einstein - He's GOD.
Paul, however, was as Catholic as all of the other first century Christians . . .

There is a cult that took a word........that means """universal""", and tried to create the illusion that IT is the Entire body of Christ.

Its not......its just one more denomination, that has an obsession with Mary., and had literally murdered more Human Beings worldwide then any other Cult, other then Marxism, or Islam.

The Church established by Jesus and built by the Apostles is the Catholic Church.

That Church - which YOU foolishly refer to as a “cult” is the same Church since the FIRST century. ALL of the Church Fathers were Catholics – and that includes the Apostles.

There have always been heretical groups like the Gnostics, Manicheans, Arrians, Nestorians, etc. However – the REAL splintering came in the 16th century with the Protestant Revolt - with its dozens of doctrinal inventions. YOUR wacky beliefs came out of this confusion . . .

 

[Matthias]

Modalism is considered a heresy by most Christian denominations. It teaches that God appears in three modes.

FYI, Jewish Monotheism is Judaism. Because Judaism is monotheistic.
As you know Judaism does not recognize Jesus is Messiah.Much less that Jesus is also God,The Word,made flesh. John 1.

That's why Jews are not allowed on the Christians Only boards.


Trinitarian creeds:
Here's a more detailed look at each:

• Apostles' Creed:
  This creed is a foundational summary of Christian beliefs, including statements about God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit. It's a short and widely used creed, often used in baptismal services.
  
  
• • Nicene Creed:
    This creed was developed at the First Council of Nicaea in 325 CE. It specifically addresses the nature of Christ and His relationship to the Father, affirming His divinity and co-equality with the Father. It also affirms the Holy Spirit's role as God.
  • Athanasian Creed:
    This creed, also known as the Quicunque Vult, focuses on the Trinity and the dual nature of Christ (both fully divine and fully human). It explicitly states the equality of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit and condemns those who disagree with its statements.

I agree with almost everything that you wrote in your post. Here is where I don’t: Christianity began as a sect of Judaism in the 1st century. Judaism, with the exception of that 1st century sect, rejects what that one Jewish sect affirms. I’m a 21st century representative of that one 1st century sect of Judaism. Anyone who spends time reading my posts will see that I recognize Jesus is the Messiah and that he is also in a particular sense God, within the constraints found in that one sect of Judaism.

Given the environment of this board, I concluded - almost three years prior to the board administration implementing its latest policy - that it is wholly appropriate (and quite satisfactory to me) to change my registration here from “Christian” to “Other Faith”.

I’m not allowed to post in ”Christians Only” forums solely because of my decision three years ago to forgo that privilege given that I self-identify with that one sect of Judaism, and it / me grounded on and in Jewish monotheism.

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

Jesus - whom we have been able to agree is in some sense God - himself has a God. He is the Son of his God.

Well,that's not scripture.

That's sophistry.

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

Of course Jesus isn't a Catholic. He isn't a Christian at all, Einstein - He's GOD.
Paul, however, was as Catholic as all of the other first century Christians . . .

The Church established by Jesus and built by the Apostles is the Catholic Church.

That Church - which YOU foolishly refer to as a “cult” is the same Church since the FIRST century. ALL of the Church Fathers were Catholics – and that includes the Apostles.

There have always been heretical groups like the Gnostics, Manicheans, Arrians, Nestorians, etc. However – the REAL splintering came in the 16th century with the Protestant Revolt - with its dozens of doctrinal inventions. YOUR wacky beliefs came out of this confusion . . .

Catholic, defined as the universal church,yes.

Catholic as in the Roman church, never. The RCC is a cult.

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

And? The facts remain the earliest Christians were Catholic. Don't get huffy with me about facts.

That's the lie the RCC cult propagates.
The first Christians were Jews. Because Jesus ministered to his people first.

Jesus told his people,when you have seen me you have seen the father.
Other verses show Jesus teaching he was God the Father.

Jews do not believe Jesus was their Messiah because they don't believe he fulfilled all the Messiah prophecies.

Messianic Jews believe in Jesus as Messiah.

As for Monotheistic Jews, here you go.

The Deity of Christ Within Jewish Monotheism - Josh.org

Is Christ's deity a threat to Jewish monotheism? Can God the Father and Jesus the Son be one God? Matthew Tingblad shares helpful insights.

www.josh.org

The Divine Identity of Christ​

So just as God’s word, wisdom, and Spirit are part of God’s identity as the sole creator and ruler of the universe, so also is God’s Son, Jesus, placed in the same status by New Testament authors as the sole creator and ruler of all things. God’s Son is God in a similar way that God’s wisdom is God: they share the same identity as God.

 

[nedsk]

Catholic, defined as the universal church,yes.

Catholic as in the Roman church, never. The RCC is a cult.

With 20,000+ non Catholic Christian denominations, protestantism could hardly be called universal. Anything you believe has existed only since the 16th century. Go to any Catholic Church anywhere on a Sunday and the mass is the mass and has existed for over 2,000 years.

 

[nedsk]

That's the lie the RCC cult propagates.
The first Christians were Jews. Because Jesus ministered to his people first.

Jesus told his people,when you have seen me you have seen the father.
Other verses show Jesus teaching he was God the Father.

Jews do not believe Jesus was their Messiah because they don't believe he fulfilled all the Messiah prophecies.

Messianic Jews believe in Jesus as Messiah.

As for Monotheistic Jews, here you go.

The Deity of Christ Within Jewish Monotheism - Josh.org

Is Christ's deity a threat to Jewish monotheism? Can God the Father and Jesus the Son be one God? Matthew Tingblad shares helpful insights.

www.josh.org

The Divine Identity of Christ​

So just as God’s word, wisdom, and Spirit are part of God’s identity as the sole creator and ruler of the universe, so also is God’s Son, Jesus, placed in the same status by New Testament authors as the sole creator and ruler of all things. God’s Son is God in a similar way that God’s wisdom is God: they share the same identity as God.

Yes jews that became Christians. Nothing you believe existed before the 16th century. The Catholic Church however 2,000+years and counting. Stop believing the heresies

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

With 20,000+ non Catholic Christian denominations, protestantism could hardly be called universal. Anything you believe has existed only since the 16th century. Go to any Catholic Church anywhere on a Sunday and the mass is the mass and has existed for over 2,000 years.

I've been to mass. Idols everywhere. Necromancy in the form of venerated "relics" that are actually body parts of the dead.
Nuns under glass said to be preserved in their bodily form because they were special in God's sight.

The invention of $Purgatory$ and,until it was deemed closed by former Pope Benedict, Limbo.

None of those things were taught by Jesus.

Trace the History of the Roman Catholic Church

Trace this brief history of the Roman Catholic Church and learn how one of the oldest and largest branches of Christianity was established.

www.learnreligions.com

official beginning of the Roman Catholic church occurred in 590 C.E., with Pope Gregory I.