The Iran situation

[Riven]

Well, here we are again about to embark on yet another misadventure in this stupid desert that can never just be peaceful.

I think that President Trump should keep us out of the war. Netanyahu attacked the nation of Iran while negotiations between Iran and the US were still ongoing.

His intentions are obvious. He wishes to drag the United States into a wider conflict in the Middle East. And like clockwork, the Christian evangelicals are completely onboard for what could turn into another world war if other powers get involved, which they most likely will.

It's terribly disappointing to see this level of stupidity and ignorance. One would think you people would have learned from Afghanistan and Iraq, but no. No lessons were learned, and we're just gonna do it all again.

 

[Matthias]

Well, here we are again about to embark on yet another misadventure in this stupid desert that can never just be peaceful.

I think that President Trump should keep us out of the war. Netanyahu attacked the nation of Iran while negotiations between Iran and the US were still ongoing.

His intentions are obvious. He wishes to drag the United States into a wider conflict in the Middle East. And like clockwork, the Christian evangelicals are completely onboard for what could turn into another world war if other powers get involved, which they most likely will.

It's terribly disappointing to see this level of stupidity and ignorance. One would think you people would have learned from Afghanistan and Iraq, but no. No lessons were learned, and we're just gonna do it all again.

Are you alarmed by it?

 

[JustMe]

Well, here we are again about to embark on yet another misadventure in this stupid desert that can never just be peaceful.

I think that President Trump should keep us out of the war. Netanyahu attacked the nation of Iran while negotiations between Iran and the US were still ongoing.

His intentions are obvious. He wishes to drag the United States into a wider conflict in the Middle East. And like clockwork, the Christian evangelicals are completely onboard for what could turn into another world war if other powers get involved, which they most likely will.

It's terribly disappointing to see this level of stupidity and ignorance. One would think you people would have learned from Afghanistan and Iraq, but no. No lessons were learned, and we're just gonna do it all again.

Done by design....

 

[Riven]

Are you alarmed by it?

I'm more annoyed than anything else. This government, and a significant portion of the population, is filled with people that think nuclear Armageddon will make Jesus happy.

 

[bdavidc]

Well, here we are again about to embark on yet another misadventure in this stupid desert that can never just be peaceful.

I think that President Trump should keep us out of the war. Netanyahu attacked the nation of Iran while negotiations between Iran and the US were still ongoing.

His intentions are obvious. He wishes to drag the United States into a wider conflict in the Middle East. And like clockwork, the Christian evangelicals are completely onboard for what could turn into another world war if other powers get involved, which they most likely will.

It's terribly disappointing to see this level of stupidity and ignorance. One would think you people would have learned from Afghanistan and Iraq, but no. No lessons were learned, and we're just gonna do it all again.

You’re missing the point entirely. This isn’t about dragging America into a “misadventure,” it’s about a nation defending itself from a sworn enemy that has publicly vowed to destroy them. Netanyahu didn’t act recklessly, he acted responsibly. According to Romans 13:4, a leader bears the sword for a reason, to protect against evil. And when Iran is racing toward nuclear capability while chanting “Death to Israel,” that’s not a time for more handshakes and photo ops, that’s a time to act.

You talk like Netanyahu should’ve just sat and waited. Waited for what, exactly? For Iran to finish the bomb and launch it at Tel Aviv? No. Proverbs 22:3 says a wise man sees danger and takes action, but a fool walks right into it and pays the price. Israel has learned from history. Appeasement doesn't work. Delay gets people killed.

The U.S. can make its own decisions, and no one is forcing it into anything. But don’t pin this on “Christian evangelicals” just because we see evil for what it is and aren’t afraid to say so. Standing with Israel is not stupidity, it’s biblical (Genesis 12:3), and warning about Iran’s aggression isn’t warmongering, it’s reality.

So here’s the bottom line: when you see danger and do nothing, that’s not peacekeeping, it’s cowardice. Netanyahu did what any real leader should do, he defended his people. Evil doesn’t rest, and neither should those called to restrain it. The real ignorance would’ve been to stand down and let Iran finish the job.

 

[Matthias]

I'm more annoyed than anything else.

What good will come from that? From my perspective as a disciple of the Messiah, you should be more alarmed than anything else. This is a wake up call.

This government, and a significant portion of the population, is filled with people that think nuclear Armageddon will make Jesus happy.

They are on the wide path which leads to destruction.

 

[bdavidc]

I'm more annoyed than anything else. This government, and a significant portion of the population, is filled with people that think nuclear Armageddon will make Jesus happy.

Then you’re angry at the wrong people. No one who truly follows Jesus thinks nuclear war makes Him happy. That’s a twisted accusation. But you know what doesn’t make Jesus happy? Chanting “Death to Israel,” killing civilians, and raising children to hate Jews. God said, “I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee” (Genesis 12:3), and that hasn’t changed.

Jesus is the Prince of Peace, not the promoter of war. But He’s also righteous, and He will judge evil. When people try to wipe out the Jewish people, the very nation He came through, that’s not just political, it’s spiritual. You think Israel’s defense is the problem, but it’s the hatred toward them that’s fueling this whole mess. That hatred isn’t from Christ, it’s from hell.

The truth is, Jesus is coming back to judge the nations, and that judgment won’t be based on emotions or political spin, it will be based on righteousness (Revelation 19:11). So no, Jesus doesn’t rejoice in war, but He also doesn’t ignore evil. Maybe be more upset at those trying to destroy others, not the ones trying to survive.

 

[Riven]

You’re missing the point entirely. This isn’t about dragging America into a “misadventure,” it’s about a nation defending itself from a sworn enemy that has publicly vowed to destroy them. Netanyahu didn’t act recklessly, he acted responsibly. According to Romans 13:4, a leader bears the sword for a reason, to protect against evil. And when Iran is racing toward nuclear capability while chanting “Death to Israel,” that’s not a time for more handshakes and photo ops, that’s a time to act.

No, two things can be true at the same time. He acted responsibly by disarming Iran. We all agree on that. But at the same time, he did this with a plan to drag the US into the war. He knows full well that any air campaign alone will not defeat Iran. He knows it will require a significant ground invasion force. The IDF already has it's hands full with Gaza.

You talk like Netanyahu should’ve just sat and waited. Waited for what, exactly? For Iran to finish the bomb and launch it at Tel Aviv? No. Proverbs 22:3 says a wise man sees danger and takes action, but a fool walks right into it and pays the price. Israel has learned from history. Appeasement doesn't work. Delay gets people killed.

He should have waited until the negotiations were over before strikimg Iran. He struck them during the negotiations in a cynical and calculated attempt to put pressure on President Trump to join the war. Bibi can't win the war on his own and he knows it.

The U.S. can make its own decisions, and no one is forcing it into anything. But don’t pin this on “Christian evangelicals” just because we see evil for what it is and aren’t afraid to say so. Standing with Israel is not stupidity, it’s biblical (Genesis 12:3), and warning about Iran’s aggression isn’t warmongering, it’s reality.

No, it is stupidity, and it is their fault. Just the other day, Ted Cruz did an interview with Tucker Carlson, where he openly admitted that his staunch defense of Israel is based on biblical prophecy. I'm sorry, but for someone to say that in the 21st century, is so unbelievably stupid, I don't even know where to start. It's the sort of thing a theocratic government would say.

So here’s the bottom line: when you see danger and do nothing, that’s not peacekeeping, it’s cowardice. Netanyahu did what any real leader should do, he defended his people. Evil doesn’t rest, and neither should those called to restrain it. The real ignorance would’ve been to stand down and let Iran finish the job.

Again, the negotiations were ongoing, and he knew full well that Israel couldn't finish the job on it's own. He needs the United States to enter the war in a timely manner. No doubt the Israel lobby is putting a tremendous amount of pressure on the administration to act.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

I think that President Trump should keep us out of the war

I think Trump needs to use our bunker busting bombs to destroy the nuclear facility in that mountain putting the final nail in the coffin of Iran's efforts to produce nuclear weapons once and for all.

People do not understand how the followers of islam works just like they did not understand how Adolf Hitler thought. Just like Hitler, these people has publicly said they desired to destroy Israel and the United States which is why they are working to build nuclear bombs as well as Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles so they can carry their nukes to the US mainland.

The slow among us believe we should sit by and do nothing while Iran works to build nukes and the means to delivery them anywhere in the world. That's slow which is to be expected from liberals.

I'm more annoyed than anything else. This government, and a significant portion of the population, is filled with people that think nuclear Armageddon will make Jesus happy.

Liberals, as usual, have it exactly backwards

It is the followers of islam who believe bring forth world war will result in their mahdi arriving here in the world which is their version of Jesus

You’re missing the point entirely. This isn’t about dragging America into a “misadventure,” it’s about a nation defending itself from a sworn enemy that has publicly vowed to destroy them. Netanyahu didn’t act recklessly, he acted responsibly. According to Romans 13:4, a leader bears the sword for a reason, to protect against evil. And when Iran is racing toward nuclear capability while chanting “Death to Israel,” that’s not a time for more handshakes and photo ops, that’s a time to act.

Thank you!

 

[Matthias]

@Riven the kingdoms / nations of the world have not yet become the kingdom / nation of God. They will, but not until after Messiah Jesus returns.

From your outsider perspective, do you think Christians should advise the nations to make war on their (Christian and / or non-Christian) enemies?

***

Are Christians living in Iran advising their government to wage war on their (Christian and non-Christian) enemies? Should they?

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

the kingdoms / nations of the world have not yet become the kingdom / nation of God

Romans 14:17
For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Have you ever read the Book of Romans?

 

[Matthias]

Romans 14:17
For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Have you ever read the Book of Romans?

You have. Did Paul advise the Romans to wage wars on the enemies (Christian and non-Christian) of Rome?

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Did Paul advise the Romans to wage wars on the enemies (Christian and non-Christian) of Rome?

Did Jesus tell His disciples to take a sword with them when sending them out to witness for self defense?
Why yes, yes He did actually

Luke 22:36
Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

We see the NT does NOT say those with weapons are in sin.

If one "lives" by the sword (any deadly weapon) this means the weapon is what they live by as in their faith and trust in weapons comes before the Lord which of course is idolatry. Trust the Lord first and foremost.

If it's a sin to have a deadly weapon then you are accusing Jesus of committing sin when He told them to get a sword the second time He sent His disciples out. (Luke 22:36). Accusing Jesus of sinful behavior ends badly.

And you would be saying Romans 13 is advocating sin for the "servant of God" who bares the sword

Romans 13:4
For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

The action against Iran is in line with Romans 13:4 which came thru Paul.

Unless one wants to claim that Iran getting nukes and wiping Israel and the United States off the map is not doing evil?

That would be an argument that can only be made by someone being led by the evil one.

 

[Matthias]

Did Jesus tell His disciples to take a sword with them when sending them out to witness for self defense?
Why yes, yes He did actually

Luke 22:36
Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

We see the NT does NOT say those with weapons are in sin.

The story continues. Jesus didn’t advise them to buy swords to protect themselves. He advised them to buy swords - and two was enough - to fulfill a prophecy about him. When one of them (Peter) actually used a sword the Messiah chastised him for doing it.

Returning to Paul, he didn’t advise the Romans to wage wars on Rome’s enemies.

If one "lives" by the sword (any deadly weapon) this means the weapon is what they live by as in their faith and trust in weapons comes before the Lord which of course is idolatry. Trust the Lord first and foremost.

If it's a sin to have a deadly weapon then you are accusing Jesus of committing sin when He told them to get a sword the second time He sent His disciples out. (Luke 22:36). Accusing Jesus of sinful behavior ends badly.

And you would be saying Romans 13 is advocating sin for the "servant of God" who bares the sword

Romans 13:4
For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

The action against Iran is in line with Romans 13:4 which came thru Paul.

Following your logic, if you were living in Iran you would advise the government to wage war on their enemies.

Unless one wants to claim that Iran getting nukes and wiping Israel and the United States off the map is not doing evil?

Christians have no business wiping out anyone.

That would be an argument that can only be made by someone being led by the evil one.

The evil one is the god of the kingdoms / nations of this world.

 

[Matthias]

@Big Boy Johnson would have no problem annihilating fellow Christians (as well as non-Cnristians) with nuclear weapons @Riven.

By way of comparing and contrasting, I’m a primitive Christian. I would choose martyrdom over killing my enemies - Christian and / or non-Christian - regardless of what means of killing was urged upon me.

I wouldn’t want to be in your shoes. (And you have no desire to be in mine.) Christianity began as a religion of peace but after the triumph of Constantine strayed far from the Messiah’s (and the apostles’) teaching regarding how his followers are to respond to their enemies.

***

 

[Riven]

@Riven the kingdoms / nations of the world have not yet become the kingdom / nation of God. They will, but not until after Messiah Jesus returns.

From your outsider perspective, do you think Christians should advise the nations to make war on their (Christian and / or non-Christian) enemies?

No. I think Christians have a terrible track record with advising in the context of war. What's more, they're easily manipulated by Israel. All Netanyahu has to do is make reference to the Old Testament and they instantly whip out their checkbooks and support whatever war they're told to support.

Are Christians living in Iran advising their government to wage war on their (Christian and non-Christian) enemies? Should they?

I don't think Christians have a say inside of Iran. Even if they did, I don't think it would make much of a difference.

 

[Matthias]

No. I think Christians have a terrible track record with advising in the context of war.

The earliest Christians didn’t behave toward their enemies like their enemies behaved toward them. The track record of Christianity in regard to inflicting violence on enemies since the early 4th century has been pretty abysmal, but there have been, and always will be, individual exceptions in that history.

Here’s my simple point: we shouldn’t judge Christianity as a whole of being evil on the basis of those who disobey the Messiah‘s teaching on how his followers are to treat their enemies.

What's more, they're easily manipulated by Israel. All Netanyahu has to do is make reference to the Old Testament and they instantly whip out their checkbooks and support whatever war they're told to support.

Not all Christians are manipulated by Israel. Some remain faithful to the teaching of the Messiah on the matter.

The nation of Israel is one of the nations of the world and acts as the nations of the world act. None of the nations of the world are following the Messiah’s instructions to his disciples at this time.

There is nothing Netanyahu (or anyone else) can say that would cause me to advocate killing my enemies.

I don't think Christians have a say inside of Iran.

They do. What they say may cost them their lives, depending on what they say.

Even if they did, I don't think it would make much of a difference.

If they follow the Messiah’s teaching on the matter they will be martyred.

Ironically, martyrdom may come from the hands of those who self-identify as Christian.

 

[Riven]

The earliest Christians didn’t behave toward their enemies like their enemies behaved toward them. The track record of Christianity in regard to inflicting violence on enemies since the early 4th century has been pretty abysmal, but there have been, and always will be, individual exceptions in that history.

Here’s my simple point: we shouldn’t judge Christianity as a whole of being evil on the basis of those who disobey the Messiah‘s teaching on how his followers are to treat their enemies.

I didn't condemn Christianity as a whole. I condemned the Christians that seem to have rejected Christ's teachings, and appear to have a thirst for war. You'd think Christians would be calling for a ceasefire, but they're not. Ironically, that call is coming from Russia and China. Lol.

Not all Christians are manipulated by Israel. Some remain faithful to the teaching of the Messiah on the matter.

Fair enough.

The nation of Israel is one of the nations of the world and acts as the nations of the world act. None of the nations of the world are following the Messiah’s instructions to his disciples at this time.

There is nothing Netanyahu (or anyone else) can say that would cause me to advocate killing my enemies.

That's commendable. I think it works on an individual basis. But the nation that refuses to fight is the nation that will be conquered. That's just the way of the world. But Christians are not supposed to be of the world.

They do. What they say may cost them their lives, depending on what they say.

True enough.

If they follow the Messiah’s teaching on the matter they will be martyred.

Ironically, martyrdom may come from the hands of those who self-identify as Christian.

Ha. I was going to say exactly that.

 

[Matthias]

“The oftener we are mown down by you, the more in number we grow; the blood of Christians is seed.”

(Tertullian, Apology, Chapter 50)

Tertullian was writing in the 2nd century. If he were living in the 21st century he would not be an advocate for Christians killing their enemies. He longed to be martyred, but wasn’t.

Whatever else we might say about him, he retained the Messiah’s teaching concerning how Christians are to treat an enemy.

 

[Matthias]

I didn't condemn Christianity as a whole.

I know you didn’t.

I condemned the Christians that seem to have rejected Christ's teachings, and appear to have a thirst for war.

A rhetorical question: Are persons who don’t follow the Messiah’s teaching truly Christian then?

You'd think Christians would be calling for a ceasefire, but they're not.

Some are. I’m not. Does that surprise you?

Ironically, that call is coming from Russia and China. Lol.

For political reasons. They’ll call for something else when they think it is to their advantage to do so.

That's commendable. I think it works on an individual basis.

The teaching is for individuals who follow the Messiah, not for the nations of the world in this present evil age.

But the nation that refuses to fight is the nation that will be conquered. That's just the way of the world.

There’s a lot of truth in that but it doesn’t take into account the working of God behind the scenes. He uses the nations of the world to accomplish his purposes.

But Christians are not supposed to be of the world.

That’s right. Those who are should repent.