Unlike Amillennialism, Premillennialism is based on assumptions and speculation rather than on any clear, straightforward scriptures

[Zao is life]

Revelation 20 talks about the reign of Christ. Scripture explicitly teaches that Christ began to reign after His resurrection.

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Ephesians 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, 21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: 22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Colossians 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Revelation 20:6 says that those who reign with Christ are "priests of God and of Christ". Scripture teaches that Christ's followers are priests right now.

1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Scripture teaches that all believers will have their bodies changed to be immortal while inheriting eternal life in the kingdom of God when Christ returns at the last trumpet (1 Corinthians 15:50-54, Matthew 25:31-46). And it teaches that all unbelievers will be destroyed when He returns which would not allow for any mortals to populate the earth at that point, as the following scriptures indicate.

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. 36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

2 Peter 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men....10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

2 Thessalonians 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Revelation 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”

Scripture also teaches that the saved and lost will be resurrected at generally the same time or hour and then judged.

John 5:28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

Daniel 12:1 “At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered.2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

Scripture teaches that all people will be judged at the same time and not that there will be multiple judgments as Premills believe.

Shortened the quote due the character limit for my post.

Why don't you mention scriptures talking about Satan being bound so that he is unable to go about as "the prince of the power of the air who works in the sons of disobedience", deceiving the nations, etc etc?

Why don't you mention how the beast has been rising from the abyss and some saints have been beheaded for their refusal to worship him since the first century until now and so they have been reigning with Christ a thousand years every time they got beheaded?

Why do you post all the above scriptures instead of the scriptures that talk about the millennium if you want to provide support for Amilennialism?

Believing that the above scriptures you posted support Amillennialism is just another one of the logical fallacies you always boast about maintaining in your understanding of Revelation 20 - 22.

Why do you NEVER mention that Hebrews 2:8 tells us plainly and ambiguously that though all things have already been placed under Christ's feet, of this present time we do not see it yet?

It's not as though you have not been made aware of Hebrews 2:8 - and Hebrews 2:8 is only one example of the MANY scriptures you omit in your arguments, such as Revelation 20.

You totally omit many scriptures while you quote only scriptures that would only prove there is no such thing as the binding of Satan in terms of his ability to deceive the nations following the return of Christ IF Revelation 20 and all those other New Testament scriptures implying that Satan has never been bound (in terms of what he is permitted to do in his attempts to deceive the nations) did not exist.

But it's telling the way you ALWAYS omit those scriptures and others - and then convince yourself that your assertions are not based on logical fallacies. It's an Amillennialist thing to do so.

 

[Zao is life]

Do you not listen? I based my doctrine on what I believe to be clear, straightforward scriptures that I then use to interpret more difficult scriptures. Why are you avoiding addressing anything I said in my original posts? For example, scripture explicitly teaches that Jesus began to reign after His resurrection. Should we not use those scriptures to help understand Revelation 20 when it talks about Jesus reigning? I believe so and that's the point of this thread.

I ask again,

Why don't you mention scriptures talking about Satan being bound so that he is unable to go about as "the prince of the power of the air who works in the sons of disobedience", deceiving the nations, etc etc?

Why don't you mention how the beast has been rising from the abyss and some saints have been beheaded for their refusal to worship him since the first century until now and so they have been reigning with Christ a thousand years every time they got beheaded?

Why do you post all the above scriptures instead of the scriptures that talk about the millennium if you want to provide support for Amilennialism?

Believing that the above scriptures you posted support Amillennialism is just another one of the logical fallacies you always boast about, which you maintain in your understanding of Revelation 20 - 22.

Why do you NEVER mention that Hebrews 2:8 tells us plainly and ambiguously that though all things have already been placed under Christ's feet, of this present time we do not see it yet?

It's not as though you have not been made aware of Hebrews 2:8 - and Hebrews 2:8 is only one example of the MANY scriptures you omit in your arguments, such as Revelation 20 - totally omitted while you quote only scriptures that would prove there is no such thing as the binding of Satan in terms of his ability to deceive the nations following the return of Christ IF Revelation 20 and all those other scriptures implying that Satan has never been bound in terms of what he is permitted to do in his attempts to deceive the nations did not exist.

But it's telling the way you ALWAYS omit those scriptures and others - and then convince yourself that your assertions are not based on logical fallacies.

Your OP proves nothing except that you ignore a great deal of scripture and change the meaning of a great deal of other portions of scripture in the way you interpret it - all so that you can maintain the logical fallacy that doing so supports Amillennialism.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Yep. As it was in Noah day, so it will be when Jesus comes.

None.

Luke 17
26 And just as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be in the time of [the second coming of] the Son of Man: 27 the people were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying, they were being given in marriage, [they were indifferent to God] until the day that Noah went into the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.

As the ungodly are perishing we are still rising to meet him in the air.

Paul puts it this way...,

2Thess 1
6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with distress those who distress you, 7 and to give relief to you who are so distressed and to us as well when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in a flame of fire, 8 dealing out [full and complete] vengeance to those who do not [seek to] know God and to those who ignore and refuse to obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus [by choosing not to respond to Him].

9 These people will pay the penalty and endure the punishment of everlasting destruction, banished from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day

Zero population on the day we are glorified = premill is dead

Matt 13
40 So just as the weeds are gathered up and burned in the fire, so will it be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend [those things by which people are led into sin], and all who practice evil [leading others into sin], 42 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping [over sorrow and pain] and grinding of teeth [over distress and anger].

43 Then the righteous [those who seek the will of God] will shine forth [radiating the new life] like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears [to hear], let him hear and heed My words.

=GLORIFICATION DAY.

Amen, Jeff. Those scriptures are very clear and straightfoward and cannot possibly be reconciled with Premill. Which is why we don't see any of them even trying to do so. It can't be done. If they actually interpreted those scriptures as literally as they interpret Revelation 20 then they would be Amills like us.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Why do you NEVER mention that Hebrews 2:8 tells us plainly and ambiguously that though all things have already been placed under Christ's feet, of this present time we do not see it yet?

I have addressed Hebrews 2:8 with you multiple times, so why are you lying about this?

How do you think you are proving anything here as it relates to Premill? There are still things (people, kingdoms, governments) that don't yet exist that are not yet under Him and death has not yet been defeated and put under Him, but all things that ever exist will be under Him once the final enemy, death, is defeated when He returns. At that point He will deliver the kingdom to the Father (1 Corinthians 15:22-28). What is your point here?

It's not as though you have not been made aware of Hebrews 2:8 - and Hebrews 2:8 is only one example of the MANY scriptures you omit in your arguments,

LOL. Why don't you address any of the scriptures I posted in the second post of this thread? It looks like you would rather talk about anything besides those. I have addressed Hebrews 2:8 many times, so you have no idea of what you're talking about. You're also not even making it clear why you are bringing up that verse. Typical unclear gibberish from you.

such as Revelation 20 - totally omitted while you quote only scriptures that would prove there is no such thing as the binding of Satan in terms of his ability to deceive the nations following the return of Christ if Revelation 20 and all those other scriptures implying that Satan has never been bound in terms of what he is permitted to do in his attempts to deceive the nations did not exist.

But it's telling the way you ALWAYS omit those scriptures and others - and then convince yourself that your assertions are not based on logical fallacies.

I'm talking specifically about clear, straightforward scriptures in this thread. Is there something you don't understand about that? Why are you afraid to address any of the points I made in my second post? No Premill seems to want to do that in any detail. I'm not surprised since those scriptures clearly support Amill rather than Premill.

 

[jeffweeder]

Amen, Jeff. Those scriptures are very clear and straightfoward and cannot possibly be reconciled with Premill. Which is why we don't see any of them even trying to do so. It can't be done. If they actually interpreted those scriptures as literally as they interpret Revelation 20 then they would be Amills like us.

I am amazed that they interpret in such a way that contradicts what Jesus actually taught on the end of the age.

1. Matthew 13:40
   So just as the weeds are gathered up and burned in the fire, so will it be at the end of the age.
2. Matthew 13:49
   So it will be at the end of the age; the angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous

. 40 So just as the weeds are gathered up and burned in the fire, so will it be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend [those things by which people are led into sin], and all who practice evil [leading others into sin], 42 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping [over sorrow and pain] and grinding of teeth [over distress and anger].

43 Then the righteous [those who seek the will of God] will shine forth [radiating the new life] like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears [to hear], let him hear and heed My words


Pre anything will struggle to fully agree with our Lords own word here.

 

[Zao is life]

I have addressed Hebrews 2:8 with you multiple times, so why are you lying about this?

How do you think you are proving anything here as it relates to Premill?

LOL. How do you think that quoting scripture that appears to be saying one thing and would support Amil IF you do not quote other parts of scripture that shed more light on the correct interpretation, without posting those scriptures, is proving that anything you have posted supports Amil?

There are still things (people, kingdoms, governments) that don't yet exist that are not yet under Him

Right. And even people, kingdoms and governments that have a minority of people believing the gospel they have heard also all have a majority of people in their populations who remain blinded by the deceiver of the nations - such as in the USA - the most free and Christianized nation in the world - because he isn't in any way prevented from deceiving whom he can.

and death has not yet been defeated and put under Him, but all things that ever exist will be under Him once the final enemy, death, is defeated when He returns.

On what do you base your assumption that death will be defeated when He returns?

Are you saying that Paul did not know what he was talking about when he said that Christ has broken the power of death, and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel (2 Timothy 1:9-10)?

Has Satan been destroyed in the lake of fire because his power over death has been destroyed?

On what are you basing your assumption that death will be destroyed before the close of the literal thousand years that, as Revelation 20 tells us, will follow the return of Christ?

Your belief that your argument about the destruction of death (which has already been defeated) and the destruction of Satan (who has already been defeated) in the lake of fire - which Revelation 20 tells us will come at the close of the thousand years - is somehow "proof" of Amillennialism is yet another of your long list of logical fallacies.

Revelation 20 tells us that Satan will be totally incapacitated in terms of his deception of the nations for a thousand years before he will be released one last time, and then destroyed. It also tells us that death with be destroyed at this time.

So therefore Revelation 20 is telling you that in-between the resurrection of the dead which Paul is talking about in 1 Corinthians 15 and the destruction of death - which has already been defeated by Christ - a thousand years will pass.

Or are you asserting again that just because in your long list of logical fallacies and scriptures that you ignore or change the meaning of, there is not going to be a thousand years following the return of Christ, this means that death will be defeated only when Christ returns and destroyed in the lake of fire when He returns?

At that point He will deliver the kingdom to the Father (1 Corinthians 15:22-28). What is your point here?

Are you saying that

(a) because Paul said Jesus will deliver the kingdom to the Father which is now under His authority, this means that the kingdom is not at all under the Father's authority now, and that His own throne is not excluded in what has been handed over?

(b) Jesus will not reign to the ages of the ages commencing at the time He returns because He will at that time deliver the kingdom to the Father, and then God will be all in all?

(c) That this means that no human beings will have the authority to reign with Christ under His authority and under the Father's authority after He returns and that we have no inheritance in the kingdom?

LOL. Why don't you address any of the scriptures I posted in the second post of this thread?

Which of them states that no saints will be beheaded after the beast ascends from the abyss or be alive and be reigning with Christ a thousand years after they had been beheaded; and which of them states that Satan will be prevented from deceiving the nations for a thousand years?

Which of them does not prove that your belief that they prove Amillennialism is based on logical fallacies?

I have addressed them all by pointing out that they all prove that your belief in Amil is based on logical fallacies - because they all prove that what has been placed in Christ's hands does not mean that He has returned yet - and what will prove that He has returned is that Satan will be completely incapacitated in terms of being able to deceive the nations,

and certain saints will be reigning for a thousand years with Christ but under His authority - in the very kingdom which Christ has begun to reign over to the ages of the ages and has delivered to God the Father so that God has become all in all.

It looks like you would rather talk about anything besides scriptures that disprove Amil - such as the way you conveniently left out Hebrews 2:8 and any other scripture which disproves Amil, from your OP.

I'm talking specifically about clear, straightforward scriptures in this thread.

Even while you conveniently exclude clear, straightforward scriptures that prove your assertions are false (for example Hebrews 2:8 which clearly and straight-forwardly tells us that in this present time we do not yet see all things having been placed under Christ's feet, though they have already been placed under His feet) - which is what Amils always do in their desperation to prove their logical fallacies.

Is there something you don't understand about that?

There's something you don't understand about that, I think. Nor do you understand that just because you omit any scripture that sheds more light on the scriptures you quote and disprove Amil, does not mean that I have to do the same.

Why are you afraid to address any of the points I made in my second post?

Done. You can't see it because you wanted me to address them by failing to address other scriptures that pertain to them that you deliberately omitted.

Your arguments are so full of holes it's bizarre how you cannot see it. Besides being circular.

 

[Zao is life]

Revelation 20 talks about the reign of Christ. Scripture explicitly teaches that Christ began to reign after His resurrection.

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Ephesians 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, 21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: 22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

Above quote shortened in order to remain within the character limit for this post.

None of the above scriptures support Amillenialism. Why?

It's because like all Amils, you omit ALL clear, straightforward scriptures that prove that you have not compared scripture with scripture before concluding what you have - such as:-

1. The fact that Hebrews 2:8 tells us clearly and plainly that though all things have already been placed under Christ's feet, in this present time we do not see it yet, but what we do see in this present time is Jesus (who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death), crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man; and

2. The fact that Jesus told Pilate that His Kingdom is not of this world [kosmos] in this present time; and

3. The fact that Christ's later Revelation to His churches tells us in Revelation 11:15, the kingdoms of this world [kosmos] will become the Kingdoms of our LORD and of His Christ when the seventh trumpet sounds, and He shall reign to the ages of the ages; and

4. Just as Revelation 11:15 tells us that the kingdoms of this world [kosmos] will become the kingdoms of our LORD and of His Christ, so Paul states in 1 Corinthians 15:28 that when all things shall be subdued unto Christ (which Hebrews 2:8 and Revelation 11:15 tell us has not yet occurred in this present time), then shall the Son also Himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

5. The fact that Paul said the above in the context of saying that it is manifest that God the Father is excepted, which did put all things under Christ (1 Corinthians 15:27), and after saying that Christ, when He has returned (as Revelation 11:15 tells us) shall have put down all the human rule and all authority and power of this present world.

Where do you see Christ reigning if this present time in any of the above?

The fact is, those of us who believe scripture and understand the need to compare scripture with scripture, know that scripture is not saying what Amillennialists - and you, in your two OP posts - assert that it is saying, and it is 100% clear to all Premillennialists that Preterists and all other Amillennialists have developed a theology (Amillennialism) that is built on top of the fallacies that result from

(a) not comparing scripture with scripture; and
(b) corrupting all parts of scripture which plainly state that Satan has never been bound - by changing the meaning of what is being said in such a way as to make it comply with Amil theology.

Your above post is a very good example of this, and the fact that you have lost the ability to let scripture teach you what it's saying instead of you teaching scripture what it's saying, is evidence of the fact that you have been blinded to a correct understanding of this by the false doctrine and theology called "Amillennialism".

 

[Taken]

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord

“Day of the Lord” is mentioned over 30 times in Scripture.

There is no need to make things so complicated. Jesus made things simple to understand by saying this...

Matthew 12:30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

Scripture is Not Complicated.

It IS the “Understanding of Scripture”…
Carnally OR Spiritually which Presents a “MYSTERY” for manKind.

So, when Jesus comes, those who are with Him, which are those who are in Christ (Christians) will be changed to put on bodily immortality and caught up to Him in the air while those who are against Him

What DO “YOU mean”…saying “When Jesus comes?”

Jesus…was IN Heaven.
Jesus …was SENT “TO” Earth.
Jesus “Returned” TO Heaven.
Jesus “Shall Return TO Earth.”

The “AIR” IS NOT Earth!
The “CLOUDS” ARE NOT Earth!

Only “Christians” ARE IN Christ?
ARE all “identifying” AS Christians…IN Christ?
No and No!

(unbelievers) will all be killed just like all unbelievers were killed in Noah's day.

Noah’s Day… ManKIND’s “DAY” …
Parallels…IS Similar TO:
“THE DAY of the Lord”

You present “Your (Carnal) Understanding OF “The DAY of the Lord”…”as A single Day”.

The “Day OF the Lord”…IS Multiple Days…Times…Events…WHEREBY…HIS “INTERVENTION / WORKS”… ARE “Revealed”.

In the FIRST Great Tribulations…Sent Down From Heaven… ON DAY ONE… Did EVERY “non- Believer” Physically Die?
No.

Once Noah (family) entered the Ark… the Ark sat on Dry Ground for SEVEN Days, Before the First Drop of Rain Fell.

Once the First drop of Rain Fell…
Was the Ark Lifted Up?
No.
We’re ALL outside of the Ark, Killed?
No.

The Day of the Lord… can be Called, Identified, BY a Particular “EVENT”… OF the Lords “Intervention / Works”…
WITHOUT Being “A Singular Day”.

Noah and ( his family)… WERE Safe From the “Days and Events” OF “The Lords Day“ Intervention and Works” TO “Proceed”.

Noah (and his family/ Seven Others) We’re Mortally “Preserved To Repopulate the Earth”.

Men ON the Earth, did Not ALL mortally die “AT Once”.
Could have, Some;
* Run for the Hills or higher Ground?
Sure.
* Could have Some;
Tried to Enter the Ark?
Sure.
* Could have Some;
Fearfully IN their Hearts, Believed IN The Lord God IN Heaven and called Out TO Him?
Sure.
* Could God, have Allowed their Body to Die… yet Save Their Soul?
Sure.


Another Great and (Last) Tribulation FSent Down From Heaven “IS Coming”.
* Are SOME men, ( Like Noah) Preparing For “THAT” Day?
* Are SOME men, (Like in Noah’s Day), ignoring God, rejecting God, will experience EVENTS, (of Wrath and Tribulations / Events Sent Down from Heaven?
Sure.
* Will SOME Men… curse God, (they supposedly don’t Believe In?)
Sure.
*Will SOME Men…Experience, Earth/ Weather Disturbances, EVENTS…(Earthquakes, Fires, Water scarce, Crops failing, Famines, Men killing men for land, shelter, food?
Sure.
* Will SOME Men…Experience, A Heartful Belief moment, BEFORE, their bodily mortal Death?
Sure.
WILL such “their” SOUL be Saved?
Sure.
WILL “Their” Body “Immediately” BE Risen Up, Redeemed, Claimed BY God?
No.
WILL “Their Body” Be Risen UP, By God, WHEN Judgement Day “commences”
Sure. ( Called First Resurrection).

WHAT ABOUT, THOSE, IN Christ, Already MADE Whole…( Body, Soul, Spirit)That The Lord Called Called UP to Him, IN The Air / Clouds… BEFORE The Lord “Returned TO the Earth… WITH Those IN Christ?

Ya Think…God IS “Raising Their Already Raised Body’s?”
Ya think…God is “Saving Their Already Saved Souls”?
Ya Think..God is … “ Quickening Their Already Born Again Spirits”?
No

There IS A remnant…
Of men on Earth … who (like all mortal men on Earth… Who Come Into Heartful Belief….BEFORE their Bodily Death…that Shall Repopulate the Earth…( just as Noah’s Mortal Believing Family did)…
* Mortal men, Shall be born, live, marry, reproduce offspring, build towns, cities, nations, prosper, hear, Learn, From the ONE WORLD Governing Authority…. Christ the Lord Jesus, Governing Over His Kingdom, Encompassing the Boundaries of “The Promised (to Abraham) Land….and sitting In His Throne (ie king Davids Everlasting Throne IN Jerusalem)…with His Holy Angels Servants and His ( IN Christ) Saints Servants…Teaching, Preaching preparing the Remnant FOR… Judgement Day…as such “Nations are Built, the peoples Learning generationally, For 1,000 years…( ALSO called the Day of the Lord )….

There AFTER…IS the Devil loosed, and once again Allowed to Influence the Nations, the minds and Hearts of Earthly Existing mortal men TO …
Rise up, Gather together, Instigate A WAR of All Nations upon the Earth…Against Christ the Lords Kingdom on Earth…

Oops…
Their generational, smugness, arrogance of prosperity, comfort, peace Replays…. ( much like can be observed Today….with younger generations, lavished with wants, rejecting God … reserving their time and efforts in Themselves rather than the Lord God….
Oops…
Stands CHRIST the Lord… His Two Edged Sword… ( His Word Spoken… TO SAVE or DESTROY).
* Not a mystery…
With God… Life IS Saved.
Against God…Life Departed, Vessel (Body / soul) Destroyed, Remembered no more.

What mortals does that leave to populate the earth for 1,000 years? None.

There IS a Huge DIFFERENCE BETWEEN…
“Carnal Belief AND Spirit Belief.”

There IS a HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN…
Heartful BELIEF…AND “CONFESSED” Heartful BELIEF.

Thousands of …”.non-Believers”…AND “UN-Confessed Believers”… SHALL be Present, occupy, inhabit the Earth…
AFTER… THOSE “Confessed IN Christ” Believers, ARE Called, Rise Up TO Meet their Lord …IN the Air”!!!

None are “Righteous”!!!
Mortals “are” still IN their natural mortal bodies… NOT Righteous! Believing… SO WHAT… Still “Unrighteous”! Still in their mortal bodies.

Gods Tribulations are Sent From Heaven “Upon the Whole… UNRIGHTEOUS Earth and it’s inhabitants”…

The “Confessed” Believers, Crucified With Christ, Forgiven, Saved, Quickened, Living IN Christ Jesus’ Risen Body ( uh… called “IN Christ”)… Have Already fulfilled…Accomplished… their ONE Bodily Death Requirement…(dud… Crucified with Jesus)!!!

Their “Righteousness” Has been MADE Accomplished, By the Power of God.
They ARE “Excepted, From Gods Tribulations and Wrath and are Escaped from the Face of the Earth, by Gods Promise and Power! And Calling.

It's not surprising that you would have to invent this convoluted, indecipherable nonsense to get around that.

It is Scripturally well known… the Carnal Mind IS NOT Equipped To Decipher, Interpret, Conclude Understanding of Gods Word.

During the Tribulations and Wrath Sent down From Heaven…The Only Men upon the face of the Earth… Not Subject to Experiencing…bits of Gods Wrath, Tribulations Effect… are Expressly 144,000 Sealed men Expressly With Gods Visible Mark for all to see.

Those IN Christ, ARE Sealed… but not Yet Marked… nor Remain present upon the face of the Earth… nor Required to be subject to The Lords, The Devils, Gods Anger and Wrath.

If YOU think Believers Remain ON earth During the Last day(s) Trib… And 1,000 yr reign, you would be Correct.

If YOU Think Men Will BeCome Believers During the the Last days Trib….And 1,000 yr reign, you would be Correct.

If YOU Think CONFESSED (Crucified With Jesus), Forgiven, Made Righteous Believers… Remain On the Face of the Earth during the Trib… you would be in ERROR.

If YOU think The Son of mans “Day” …
If Noah’s Day, IF mans “Day” is a Single Day, you would be in ERROR.

If you Think The Lords “Day” is a “Single Day”, you would be in ERROR.

Not once have You Provided Scriptural Teaching, Regarding THOSE IN Christ…BEING mortally ALIVE, upon the Face of the Earth, During The Last Days Tribulations.

However Scripture Expressly provides Teaching, Those IN Christ, Are Summoned, called, Risen up to the Clouds/ Air… Before Tribulations and Wrath is Sent down From Heaven.

You have NOT once Testified… what Exactly Expressly, Distinguishes a Mortal man IN Christ “From” a mortal man, Not IN Christ.

You have Not once Testified… with Scriptural Support… What Exactly … Those IN Christ “are supposedly Doing On Earth” during the Tribulations and Wrath sent down from Heaven…. Or WHY the Lord God IS angry with them, IN Christ… To cause them to Suffer His Anger and Wrath.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I am amazed that they interpret in such a way that contradicts what Jesus actually taught on the end of the age.

1. Matthew 13:40
   So just as the weeds are gathered up and burned in the fire, so will it be at the end of the age.
2. Matthew 13:49
   So it will be at the end of the age; the angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous

. 40 So just as the weeds are gathered up and burned in the fire, so will it be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend [those things by which people are led into sin], and all who practice evil [leading others into sin], 42 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping [over sorrow and pain] and grinding of teeth [over distress and anger].

43 Then the righteous [those who seek the will of God] will shine forth [radiating the new life] like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears [to hear], let him hear and heed My words


Pre anything will struggle to fully agree with our Lords own word here.

Agree. It should be clear that Jesus will return at the end of the age (Matthew 24:3), and the judgment clearly will occur at that point and not 1,000+ years later. Amillennialism keeps things simple and is based on clear, literal, straightforward passages like those you mentioned.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Scripture is Not Complicated.

I agree, but you make it complicated with your convoluted interpretations.

What DO “YOU mean”…saying “When Jesus comes?”

Jesus…was IN Heaven.
Jesus …was SENT “TO” Earth.
Jesus “Returned” TO Heaven.
Jesus “Shall Return TO Earth.”

The “AIR” IS NOT Earth!
The “CLOUDS” ARE NOT Earth!

Only “Christians” ARE IN Christ?
ARE all “identifying” AS Christians…IN Christ?
No and No!

Here's a prime example of how you make scripture more complicated than it is. You're trying to say that 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 is not the second coming of Christ. Yes, it is.

1 Thessalonians 4:14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

Noah’s Day… ManKIND’s “DAY” …
Parallels…IS Similar TO:
“THE DAY of the Lord”

You present “Your (Carnal) Understanding OF “The DAY of the Lord”…”as A single Day”.

The “Day OF the Lord”…IS Multiple Days…Times…Events…WHEREBY…HIS “INTERVENTION / WORKS”… ARE “Revealed”.

In the FIRST Great Tribulations…Sent Down From Heaven… ON DAY ONE… Did EVERY “non- Believer” Physically Die?
No.

Once Noah (family) entered the Ark… the Ark sat on Dry Ground for SEVEN Days, Before the First Drop of Rain Fell.

Once the First drop of Rain Fell…
Was the Ark Lifted Up?
No.
We’re ALL outside of the Ark, Killed?
No.

The Day of the Lord… can be Called, Identified, BY a Particular “EVENT”… OF the Lords “Intervention / Works”…
WITHOUT Being “A Singular Day”.

Noah and ( his family)… WERE Safe From the “Days and Events” OF “The Lords Day“ Intervention and Works” TO “Proceed”.

Noah (and his family/ Seven Others) We’re Mortally “Preserved To Repopulate the Earth”.

Men ON the Earth, did Not ALL mortally die “AT Once”.
Could have, Some;
* Run for the Hills or higher Ground?
Sure.
* Could have Some;
Tried to Enter the Ark?
Sure.
* Could have Some;
Fearfully IN their Hearts, Believed IN The Lord God IN Heaven and called Out TO Him?
Sure.
* Could God, have Allowed their Body to Die… yet Save Their Soul?
Sure.


Another Great and (Last) Tribulation FSent Down From Heaven “IS Coming”.
* Are SOME men, ( Like Noah) Preparing For “THAT” Day?
* Are SOME men, (Like in Noah’s Day), ignoring God, rejecting God, will experience EVENTS, (of Wrath and Tribulations / Events Sent Down from Heaven?
Sure.
* Will SOME Men… curse God, (they supposedly don’t Believe In?)
Sure.
*Will SOME Men…Experience, Earth/ Weather Disturbances, EVENTS…(Earthquakes, Fires, Water scarce, Crops failing, Famines, Men killing men for land, shelter, food?
Sure.
* Will SOME Men…Experience, A Heartful Belief moment, BEFORE, their bodily mortal Death?
Sure.
WILL such “their” SOUL be Saved?
Sure.
WILL “Their” Body “Immediately” BE Risen Up, Redeemed, Claimed BY God?
No.
WILL “Their Body” Be Risen UP, By God, WHEN Judgement Day “commences”
Sure. ( Called First Resurrection).

WHAT ABOUT, THOSE, IN Christ, Already MADE Whole…( Body, Soul, Spirit)That The Lord Called Called UP to Him, IN The Air / Clouds… BEFORE The Lord “Returned TO the Earth… WITH Those IN Christ?

Ya Think…God IS “Raising Their Already Raised Body’s?”
Ya think…God is “Saving Their Already Saved Souls”?
Ya Think..God is … “ Quickening Their Already Born Again Spirits”?
No

There IS A remnant…
Of men on Earth … who (like all mortal men on Earth… Who Come Into Heartful Belief….BEFORE their Bodily Death…that Shall Repopulate the Earth…( just as Noah’s Mortal Believing Family did)…
* Mortal men, Shall be born, live, marry, reproduce offspring, build towns, cities, nations, prosper, hear, Learn, From the ONE WORLD Governing Authority…. Christ the Lord Jesus, Governing Over His Kingdom, Encompassing the Boundaries of “The Promised (to Abraham) Land….and sitting In His Throne (ie king Davids Everlasting Throne IN Jerusalem)…with His Holy Angels Servants and His ( IN Christ) Saints Servants…Teaching, Preaching preparing the Remnant FOR… Judgement Day…as such “Nations are Built, the peoples Learning generationally, For 1,000 years…( ALSO called the Day of the Lord )….

There AFTER…IS the Devil loosed, and once again Allowed to Influence the Nations, the minds and Hearts of Earthly Existing mortal men TO …
Rise up, Gather together, Instigate A WAR of All Nations upon the Earth…Against Christ the Lords Kingdom on Earth…

Oops…
Their generational, smugness, arrogance of prosperity, comfort, peace Replays…. ( much like can be observed Today….with younger generations, lavished with wants, rejecting God … reserving their time and efforts in Themselves rather than the Lord God….
Oops…
Stands CHRIST the Lord… His Two Edged Sword… ( His Word Spoken… TO SAVE or DESTROY).
* Not a mystery…
With God… Life IS Saved.
Against God…Life Departed, Vessel (Body / soul) Destroyed, Remembered no more.


There IS a Huge DIFFERENCE BETWEEN…
“Carnal Belief AND Spirit Belief.”

There IS a HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN…
Heartful BELIEF…AND “CONFESSED” Heartful BELIEF.

Thousands of …”.non-Believers”…AND “UN-Confessed Believers”… SHALL be Present, occupy, inhabit the Earth…
AFTER… THOSE “Confessed IN Christ” Believers, ARE Called, Rise Up TO Meet their Lord …IN the Air”!!!

None are “Righteous”!!!
Mortals “are” still IN their natural mortal bodies… NOT Righteous! Believing… SO WHAT… Still “Unrighteous”! Still in their mortal bodies.

Gods Tribulations are Sent From Heaven “Upon the Whole… UNRIGHTEOUS Earth and it’s inhabitants”…

The “Confessed” Believers, Crucified With Christ, Forgiven, Saved, Quickened, Living IN Christ Jesus’ Risen Body ( uh… called “IN Christ”)… Have Already fulfilled…Accomplished… their ONE Bodily Death Requirement…(dud… Crucified with Jesus)!!!

Their “Righteousness” Has been MADE Accomplished, By the Power of God.
They ARE “Excepted, From Gods Tribulations and Wrath and are Escaped from the Face of the Earth, by Gods Promise and Power! And Calling.




It is Scripturally well known… the Carnal Mind IS NOT Equipped To Decipher, Interpret, Conclude Understanding of Gods Word.

During the Tribulations and Wrath Sent down From Heaven…The Only Men upon the face of the Earth… Not Subject to Experiencing…bits of Gods Wrath, Tribulations Effect… are Expressly 144,000 Sealed men Expressly With Gods Visible Mark for all to see.

Those IN Christ, ARE Sealed… but not Yet Marked… nor Remain present upon the face of the Earth… nor Required to be subject to The Lords, The Devils, Gods Anger and Wrath.

If YOU think Believers Remain ON earth During the Last day(s) Trib… And 1,000 yr reign, you would be Correct.

If YOU Think Men Will BeCome Believers During the the Last days Trib….And 1,000 yr reign, you would be Correct.

If YOU Think CONFESSED (Crucified With Jesus), Forgiven, Made Righteous Believers… Remain On the Face of the Earth during the Trib… you would be in ERROR.

If YOU think The Son of mans “Day” …
If Noah’s Day, IF mans “Day” is a Single Day, you would be in ERROR.

If you Think The Lords “Day” is a “Single Day”, you would be in ERROR.

Not once have You Provided Scriptural Teaching, Regarding THOSE IN Christ…BEING mortally ALIVE, upon the Face of the Earth, During The Last Days Tribulations.

However Scripture Expressly provides Teaching, Those IN Christ, Are Summoned, called, Risen up to the Clouds/ Air… Before Tribulations and Wrath is Sent down From Heaven.

You have NOT once Testified… what Exactly Expressly, Distinguishes a Mortal man IN Christ “From” a mortal man, Not IN Christ.

You have Not once Testified… with Scriptural Support… What Exactly … Those IN Christ “are supposedly Doing On Earth” during the Tribulations and Wrath sent down from Heaven…. Or WHY the Lord God IS angry with them, IN Christ… To cause them to Suffer His Anger and Wrath.

What a bunch of unintelligible, indecipherable gibberish. You need to learn to communicate more clearly and stop making everything so complicated. You are proving my point in this thread. Amillennialism is based on clear, straightforward passages while Premillennialism is based on speculation and assumptions. It has not clear, straightforward passages to support it. And that is true of pre-trib as well.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Above quote shortened in order to remain within the character limit for this post.

None of the above scriptures support Amillenialism. Why?

It's because like all Amils, you omit ALL clear, straightforward scriptures that prove that you have not compared scripture with scripture before concluding what you have - such as:-

1. The fact that Hebrews 2:8 tells us clearly and plainly that though all things have already been placed under Christ's feet, in this present time we do not see it yet, but what we do see in this present time is Jesus (who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death), crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man; and

2. The fact that Jesus told Pilate that His Kingdom is not of this world [kosmos] in this present time; and

3. The fact that Christ's later Revelation to His churches tells us in Revelation 11:15, the kingdoms of this world [kosmos] will become the Kingdoms of our LORD and of His Christ when the seventh trumpet sounds, and He shall reign to the ages of the ages; and

4. Just as Revelation 11:15 tells us that the kingdoms of this world [kosmos] will become the kingdoms of our LORD and of His Christ, so Paul states in 1 Corinthians 15:28 that when all things shall be subdued unto Christ (which Hebrews 2:8 and Revelation 11:15 tell us has not yet occurred in this present time), then shall the Son also Himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

5. The fact that Paul said the above in the context of saying that it is manifest that God the Father is excepted, which did put all things under Christ (1 Corinthians 15:27), and after saying that Christ, when He has returned (as Revelation 11:15 tells us) shall have put down all the human rule and all authority and power of this present world.

Where do you see Christ reigning if this present time in any of the above?

The fact is, those of us who believe scripture and understand the need to compare scripture with scripture, know that scripture is not saying what Amillennialists - and you, in your two OP posts - assert that it is saying, and it is 100% clear to all Premillennialists that Preterists and all other Amillennialists have developed a theology (Amillennialism) that is built on top of the fallacies that result from

(a) not comparing scripture with scripture; and
(b) corrupting all parts of scripture which plainly state that Satan has never been bound - by changing the meaning of what is being said in such a way as to make it comply with Amil theology.

Your above post is a very good example of this, and the fact that you have lost the ability to let scripture teach you what it's saying instead of you teaching scripture what it's saying, is evidence of the fact that you have been blinded to a correct understanding of this by the false doctrine and theology called "Amillennialism".

You use so may words to say nothing. The scriptures I referenced EXPLICITLY teach that Jesus has been reigning for a long time already since His resurrection. And other scripture clearly indicates that His kingdom did not come with observation and is not of this world (John 18:36). So, the idea of Him ruling over some temporal earthly kingdom is just not taught anywhere in scripture and you have nothing to show otherwise. Your unwillingness to address any of the scriptures I referenced speaks volumes.

Your desperation to try to have the thousand years occur after Christ's return results in you inventing an insane theory that many of the dead who are resurrected when Christ returns will have immortal bodies and will have their faith tested for a thousand years after that during which time they could lose their salvation. Scripture teaches no such thing. Not even close. Instead, it teaches that today is the day of salvation and now is the time of salvation (2 Corinthians 6:2). The time of testing is during this lifetime. After the resurrection of the dead will be the judgment. That's why passages like Daniel 12:2 and John 5:28-29 talk about the dead being resurrected unto either everlasting life or everlasting condemnation, shame and contempt.

 

[WPM]

Great job of pointing at yourself in a mirror in your original post.

You proved nothing.

More avoidance. That is all Premils can bring to the table, apart from ad hominem.

 

[marks]

apart from ad hominem.

Like these?

Your desperation to try to have the thousand years occur after Christ's return results in you inventing an insane theory

What a bunch of unintelligible, indecipherable gibberish.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

LOL. How do you think that quoting scripture that appears to be saying one thing and would support Amil IF you do not quote other parts of scripture that shed more light on the correct interpretation, without posting those scriptures, is proving that anything you have posted supports Amil?

LOL. Why do you continue to avoid addressing any of the scriptures I reference in the second post? Show me how you reconcile your beliefs with them.

Right. And even people, kingdoms and governments that have a minority of people believing the gospel they have heard also all have a majority of people in their populations who remain blinded by the deceiver of the nations - such as in the USA - the most free and Christianized nation in the world - because he isn't in any way prevented from deceiving whom he can.

He hasn't stopped the gospel from bringing light into those nations that had never been brought there before. We agree that people have free will, so that a minority in those nations believe the gospel is not because Satan prevented them from hearing it, but rather that they willingly chose to reject it.

On what do you base your assumption that death will be defeated when He returns?

1 Corinthians 15:50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”

Paul wrote that Jesus will reign until the last enemy, death is defeated and destroyed (1 Corinthians 15:25-26). Jesus will return at the last trumpet at which point the prophecy given in Isaiah 25:8 will be fulfilled and death will be "swallowed up in victory". Clearly, death being swallowed up in victory after the last trumpet sounds means that death will be defeated at that point. Do you agree that Jesus will return at the last trumpet?

Are you saying that Paul did not know what he was talking about when he said that Christ has broken the power of death, and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel (2 Timothy 1:9-10)?

Dumb question. I would never say that Paul ever didn't know what he was talking about and you know it. Are you saying that you think the last enemy, death, has already been defeated rather than being defeated when Jesus returns, as Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 15:22-28? Do you just ignore 1 Corinthians 15:22-28 when interpreting a passage like 2 Timothy 1:9-10? Breaking the power of death has a different context than defeating and destroying death. Jesus taking the power of death from the devil at the cross (Hebrews 2:14-15) meant that those who were slaves to the fear of death could be set free. It didn't mean that they wouldn't die, but meant that they could have the hope of eternal life so that they would not have to fear death anymore.

Has Satan been destroyed in the lake of fire because his power over death has been destroyed?

Why all the dumb questions? No, he obviously hasn't been cast into the lake of fire yet and no one is claiming that he has been.

On what are you basing your assumption that death will be destroyed before the close of the literal thousand years that, as Revelation 20 tells us, will follow the return of Christ?

I don't say that death will be destroyed before the close of the thousand years. What is the name of the straw man that you're arguing with? How about you address what I believe instead?

Are you saying that

(a) because Paul said Jesus will deliver the kingdom to the Father which is now under His authority, this means that the kingdom is not at all under the Father's authority now, and that His own throne is not excluded in what has been handed over?

Do you only have questions and no answers? Do I have to teach you everything? Are you trying to make what Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 15:22-28 meaningless or what? Right now He reigns together with the Father while being completely equal with the Father and not being subject to anyone, including the Father. That doesn't mean the Father is subject to Him. They reign equally together. But, when Jesus comes again, Paul said that He will deliver the kingdom to the Father and even Jesus will be subject to the Father at that point. This is all written in 1 Corinthians 15:22-28. You don't seem to understand what Paul wrote there.

(b) Jesus will not reign to the ages of the ages commencing at the time He returns because He will at that time deliver the kingdom to the Father, and then God will be all in all?

No, He will reign forever. Being subject to the Father after He returns doesn't mean He won't reign at that point. We can see in Isaiah 9:6-7 that He will reign forever. But, unlike right now, He will be subject to the Father after He returns, but will continue to reign over everyone else as He has done since His resurrection.

(c) That this means that no human beings will have the authority to reign with Christ under His authority and under the Father's authority after He returns and that we have no inheritance in the kingdom?

No. I never said such a thing. But, at that point we will be in eternity. The new heavens and new earth will be ushered in at that point and they will be eternal and only righteousness will dwell there (2 Peter 3:13). There will be no sin and death there (Revelation 21:4).

Which of them states that no saints will be beheaded after the beast ascends from the abyss or be alive and be reigning with Christ a thousand years after they had been beheaded; and which of them states that Satan will be prevented from deceiving the nations for a thousand years?

Which of them does not prove that your belief that they prove Amillennialism is based on logical fallacies?

What are you even saying here? You have gone back to gibberish here. Learn how to communicate clearly. And stop being afraid to address the clear, straightforward scriptures I used to back up my view in the second post. If my view is supposedly based on logical fallacies, then show me how you think I'm misinterpreting the passages I referenced to back up my Amill doctrine. I can only conclude that you are afraid to even attempt to do so since you've had plenty of opportunity to do so at this point, but continue to not even attempt to do so.

I have addressed them all by pointing out that they all prove that your belief in Amil is based on logical fallacies - because they all prove that what has been placed in Christ's hands does not mean that He has returned yet - and what will prove that He has returned is that Satan will be completely incapacitated in terms of being able to deceive the nations,

LOL. You have not addressed them specifically at all. Just making claims like you're doing here proves nothing.

and certain saints will be reigning for a thousand years with Christ but under His authority - in the very kingdom which Christ has begun to reign over to the ages of the ages and has delivered to God the Father so that God has become all in all.

It looks like you would rather talk about anything besides scriptures that disprove Amil - such as the way you conveniently left out Hebrews 2:8 and any other scripture which disproves Amil, from your OP.

LOL. I'm the one who created this thread and showed the scriptures that I use to support my view. Instead of even attempting to refute anything I said, you are trying to divert attention away from those clear, straightforward scriptures that support Amillennialism. You clearly just believe what you want to believe while ignoring the clear, straightforward scriptures that your belief contradicts. Instead of addressing those, you spew a bunch of hot air that doesn't disprove anything and only proves that you like to watch yourself type or something.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

More avoidance. That is all Premils can bring to the table, apart from ad hominem.

That's what we see over and over again. Notice how none of these Premils are willing to address any of the scriptures I referenced in the original posts in any kind of detail. They would rather talk about anything else but those scriptures. Meanwhile, they continue to prove my point which is that their doctrine is not based on any clear, straightforward scriptures.

 

[WPM]

1. Flatly ignoring the fact that in Genesis chapter 3, we read of how Satan appeared in the Garden of Eden and deceived mankind; and that Revelation 12:9 calls Satan "the great dragon" and "the old serpent called Devil, and Satan, who deceives the whole world; and flatly ignoring the fact that the reason given in Revelation 20:1-3 for Satan being bound is that he should deceive the nations no more until the thousand years have expired, instead introducing other interpretations of "how" or in what sense Satan "was" bound.

More false accusations.

Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

This is a victorious scene. This shows the ascent of Jesus to heaven, followed by a battle in heaven, followed by the downfall of Satan. This results in the victorious declaration from heaven: “Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ.” The grounds of this are the victorious life, death, and resurrection of Christ. Christ is now enthroned. The penalty for sin has been paid. The grave has been defeated. Hades has been emptied of the redeemed. The Gospel can now go out “the whole world” that was previously deceived by the devil.

Because Christ had now secured victory over Satan, and delegated that to the New Testament Church, “they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.”

This description of “the great dragon … that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan” who “deceiveth the whole world” is attribute it to him at the moment of his casting done. This proves that Amillennial argument. The context is: the time of his throwing down what's the time where is the gospel invaded the nations. It is only them that Scripture says: “Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.” This is when the tide turn. This is when the light shown upon the gentiles. This is when the ignorance lifted.

Salvation had now come to the nations. But Satan had to first be cast down. He had to be defeated. Christ’s ascent and victory safely secured that. As a result, the Church becomes a militant overcoming organism. The text testifies: “they (the Church of Jesus Christ) overcame him (the devil) by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.”

This supports Amil!

 

[WPM]

That's what we see over and over again. Notice how none of these Premils are willing to address any of the scriptures I referenced in the original posts in any kind of detail. They would rather talk about anything else but those scriptures. Meanwhile, they continue to prove my point which is that their doctrine is not based on any clear, straightforward scriptures.

True! Their doctrine has been put to rest. It is beyond hope!

 

[WPM]

2. Flatly ignoring the fact that scripture (Ephesians 2:2) informs us that Satan is even now still "the prince of the power of the air who works in the sons of disobedience", who we are told will give the beast and false prophet his seat, power and great authority (Revelation Chapter 13), and flatly ignoring the fact that the saints are warned to be weary of his wiles and to resist him, and to put on the full armor of God because "we do not wrestle against flesh and blood" (1 Peter 5:8-9; Ephesians 6:11-12; Revelation 2:9-10 & Revelation 2:13; 1 Thessalonians 2:18; James 4:7).

3. Flatly Ignoring the fact that the only power Satan's lies have to deceive human beings is the power that human beings give to his lies (and hence, to Satan to deceive the nations through their belief in his lies).

4.. Re-interpreting the clear, straightforward statement about the binding of Satan in terms of his deception of the nations to mean that the coming of the gospel "has had the effect of completely withdrawing God's permission for him to introduce lies which oppose the Word of God".

Your BIG-devil small-god Premil theology is exposed throughout the Word of God. He is currently held within the boundaries of God's spiritual prison restrained by spiritual chains. He is limited in his movement. He is under constant observation. He is subject to the rule of law (God's Word).

• With the coming of Christ to this earth came the introduction of His spiritual kingdom.
• With the introduction of His spiritual kingdom came a direct challenge to the power and influence of Satan on planet earth.
• With the direct challenge to the power and influence of Satan on planet earth came the spiritual empowerment of the people of God to confront and overcome Satan and his demonic angels.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Like these?

Read what he said again. He is saying that is all Premils bring to the table. That's not all I'm doing. I am also bringing scriptural support that no Premils are addressing. Clearly, most Premils on this forum have no problem with bringing ad hominem attacks, so they should not complain about it when it is brought to them. It's how many Premils on this forum prefer to communicate. But, for some, it's all they do and that was the point.

 

[WPM]

5. Conflating the destruction of Satan's power over death which is something which the death and resurrection of Christ has accomplished forever and ever, with the binding of Satan for a thousand years in terms of his deception of the nations.

Not only did Jesus break the power of death he stripped Satan of his global influence.

When Christ came, justice demanded:

· Christ had to defeat sin – the source of man’s enslavement.
· He had to defeat Satan – the instrument used to tempt man to sin.
· He had to defeat death (or the grave) – the penalty of sin.
· He had to defeat Hades (or Abraham’s bosom) – the prison of the righteous dead.
· He had to defeat eternal punishment – the just reward for unrepentant sinners.

Revelation 20:2 makes clear, "And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years. And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations [Gr. ethnos] no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.”

Scripture often makes broad general sweeping statements. When Scripture tells us that the Gentiles would no longer be deceived it does not mean every single one of them, or even most of them, would be saved, just that the spiritual ignorance would be finally lifted from the darkened Gentiles. This relates to the Gospel light going out to the Gentiles (ethnos). Before the cross they were in darkness; now they are enlightened. They are without excuse. The answer to darkness every time is light.

With the Lord’s First Advent, the light began to shine brightly. Jesus confronted, overcame and dispelled the darkness at every turn. Satan was defeated on his own turf. Jesus bound Satan in spiritual chains. He limited his authority and influence over the Gentile nations and invaded his kingdom with the truth. Since the binding of Satan, the devil has not been able to prevent the spread of the Gospel to the nations, to keep the truth from shining bright on the once-blinded heathen or keep the Gentiles in spiritual darkness like they were in Old Testament times. Now the rest of the world has the opportunity to repent and receive deliverance and freedom. Satan's authority to deceive has been broken over countless millions since Calvary.

We see this with the special assignment that Jesus gave Paul in Acts 26:17-18: “Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles [Gr. ethnos], unto whom now I send thee, To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.”

Did this mean the deception that blinded the Gentiles would be finally be lifted from all the darkened Gentiles? Of course not. It is a general statement like Revelation 20.

Jesus, here, directly links the spiritual darkness enveloping the Gentiles to the power of Satan. He connects the Gentiles turning from darkness to light through the advance of the great commission to the deliverance of the Gentiles from the bondage or chains of Satan. This is how the gross darkness would be (and was) removed that hung over the Gentiles throughout the old covenant period. This is how they were delivered from the power of Satan to God to liberty in Christ.