PRETRIB RAPTURE ANCIENT ROOTS

[David in NJ]

I certainly cannot disprove scripture.

Every time you claim 'pre-trib' rapture you speak directly against the Lord Jesus Christ.

Matt 24:29-31 - “Immediately after the tribulation of those days........I Come"

Pre-wrath rapture is 100% Pure TRUTH

 

[The Light]

Every time you claim 'pre-trib' rapture you speak directly against the Lord Jesus Christ.

Matt 24:29-31 - “Immediately after the tribulation of those days........I Come"

Pre-wrath rapture is 100% Pure TRUTH

There are two raptures. One before the tribulation and one before the wrath of God.

You better get some understanding soon. Real soon. He is at the doors.

Who are the foolish virgins that are not watching and ready?

 

[David in NJ]

There are two raptures. One before the tribulation and one before the wrath of God.

You better get some understanding soon. Real soon. He is at the doors.

Who are the foolish virgins that are not watching and ready?

These are only your words which contradict God's words.

Please post the scripture that directly declares a pre-trib rapture that occurs BEFORE His 2nd Coming and BEFORE the Resurrection.

 

[WPM]

LOL,
You are slow to understand the answer.

Can you show a scripture where Jesus changes water into wine, heals someone and then is raised from the dead?

Exactly. You have nothing. Your doctrine is a extra-biblical Jesuit invention. You have zero proof. Nada! Nothing!

 

[WPM]

There are two raptures. One before the tribulation and one before the wrath of God.

You better get some understanding soon. Real soon. He is at the doors.

Who are the foolish virgins that are not watching and ready?

What happens to them? They're destroyed when He comes. That's what happens to all the wicked. There's no one left to populate your imaginary tribulation.

 

[WPM]

I certainly cannot disprove scripture. What I can do is prove you are in error in your beliefs.

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

The scripture you quoted occurs at the 6th seal. Jesus returns to gather the elect from heaven and earth prior to the wrath of God. The 7th seal is the wrath of God. Please quote what you believe and I will dispatch it. WPM knows I will, which is why he was afraid.

Isaiah 34:1-4, 8: “Come near, ye nations, to hear; and hearken, ye people: let the earth hear, and all that is therein; the world, and all things that come forth of it. For the indignation of the LORD is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter. Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood. And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree … For it is the day of the LORD's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.”

There is total destruction – for those left behind. Anyway, demons are not dissolved in Premil, they saturate its alleged future millennium 1,000 yrs after the second coming.

Revelation 6:13-17 records: “And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, andhide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

This is talking about the topography of the physical earth and starry host being totally destroyed. There are no survivors!

Isaiah 34 is speaking about the physical change that affects the earth, heavens and elements when Jesus comes. Premil has to often change the meaning of Hebrew and Greek words in order to get that doctrine to fit. Premil explains away the literal meaning of text after text and replaces with its alternative definition. This is not the way that Scripture should be approached. This is classic eisegesis. There is so much Scripture that forbids the Premil theory that Premil is forced to spiritualize away the clearest and most literal of Scripture, ironically it literalizes the one book that is the most symbolic in Scripture (Revelation). This alone is grounds to reject the doctrine.

 

[rebuilder 454]

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks

From the decree to rebuild Jerusalem unto Messiah the prince is 69 weeks.

After 69 weeks the Messiah is cut off. Jesus is not cut off when He is revealed as the Lamb of God. He is cut off after that, 3 and a half years later when He is crucified.

There are only 3.5 years left of the 70th week.

That does not work.
The aod is in the middle of the 70th week.

The 7 yr trib ....then the aod 3.5 yrs into the trib.

 

[rebuilder 454]

There are two raptures. One before the tribulation and one before the wrath of God.

You better get some understanding soon. Real soon. He is at the doors.

Who are the foolish virgins that are not watching and ready?

Ironically it is they that stay. ( the foolish)

They (postribs) claim to stay.
They position themselves as foolish.

 

[The Light]

Every time you claim 'pre-trib' rapture you speak directly against the Lord Jesus Christ.

Matt 24:29-31 - “Immediately after the tribulation of those days........I Come"

Pre-wrath rapture is 100% Pure TRUTH

I understand He comes immediately after the tribulation at the 6th seal. What you don't understand is He also comes in an hour that you think not. The fig tree has two harvests. FACT.

 

[rebuilder 454]

These are only your words which contradict God's words.

Please post the scripture that directly declares a pre-trib rapture that occurs BEFORE His 2nd Coming and BEFORE the Resurrection.

Unpack 1 thes 4, then Rev 19, then Rev 14, then all the rapture verses.
Nothing of your doctrine fits all that.

You believe there is a rapture....check

You believe all those verses I just showed you support " one coming "...nope, in no possible way.

That is the thing...while you are centered on ONE VERSE OUT OF CONTEXT, you believe your ONE VERSE VOIDS 5 OR 10 OTHERS.

And to top it off...you REFUSE to exegate those verses.
While you were not looking, I posted a video DESTROYING your main weapon "DARBY".
That silliness is now in ashes.

All you could do was hide and say " anyone needing a video is blah blah blah blah"

You are guaranteed error by refusing to investigate.

I can debate watchtower people all day. Totally destroy their doctrine.
Why??? Because I KNOW THEIR DOCTRINE
But I KNOW MINE even better.


Same with your doctrine.
I made it my business to study the postribber doctrine.
You DO NOT know pretrib rapture doctrine.
You DONT KNOW IT.

That , my friend is WHY you dodge.

I UNDERSTAND your job.
Your Job is discredit pretrib rapture.
All you know is you hate that doctrine and those connected to it.
If you needed to build a case for your doctrine FROM THE BIBLE, you would have what...2 verses or so?
....all the while OMITTING our verses, and when shown your verses do not fit, you will go after us personally.
That is when the amils join you and mock and laugh.

 

[rebuilder 454]

I understand He comes immediately after the tribulation at the 6th seal. What you don't understand is He also comes in an hour that you think not. The fig tree has two harvests. FACT.

Then when is the second coming of Rev 19 on white horses in power and glory.
There is a pretrib gathering in 1 thes 4, acts 1, Matt 24, Matt 25, the last supper dialogue,the 2 escape verses, and others.
Then a rapture of the jews midtrib ( or some say postrib prewrath...whatever).
Then comes the last half of the trib or great trib or Daniel's 70th week or " the wrath" , or whatever men are now arguing.

But the white horses coming of Rev 19, ENDS the 70th week, or gt, or wrath , or 7 yr trib, ...or whatever men are now calling Daniel's 70th week.
THAT is the SECOND COMING.

The Mid tribulation, gathering of the chews in revelation, chapter 14.
Is the only other gathering of saints.besides the pretribe rapture.
As far as end times
The gathering postrib( post wrath,post gt, post 70th week ) is mat24 "after the trib angels gather in heaven". The saints are gathered post wedding supper in heaven (the bride becoming the wife in Rev 19 as declared) To THE WHITE HORSES IN HEAVEN. GATHERED TO MOUNT HORSES.
( MAT 24 " gathering by angels in heaven").

 

[The Light]

Exactly. You have nothing. Your doctrine is a extra-biblical Jesuit invention. You have zero proof. Nada! Nothing!

Who are the foolish virgins?

 

[The Light]

What happens to them? They're destroyed when He comes. That's what happens to all the wicked. There's no one left to populate your imaginary tribulation.

Zechariah 14
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

 

[The Light]

Isaiah 34:1-4, 8: “Come near, ye nations, to hear; and hearken, ye people: let the earth hear, and all that is therein; the world, and all things that come forth of it. For the indignation of the LORD is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter. Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood. And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree … For it is the day of the LORD's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.”

There is total destruction – for those left behind. Anyway, demons are not dissolved in Premil, they saturate its alleged future millennium 1,000 yrs after the second coming.

Revelation 6:13-17 records: “And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, andhide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

This is talking about the topography of the physical earth and starry host being totally destroyed. There are no survivors!

Isaiah 34 is speaking about the physical change that affects the earth, heavens and elements when Jesus comes. Premil has to often change the meaning of Hebrew and Greek words in order to get that doctrine to fit. Premil explains away the literal meaning of text after text and replaces with its alternative definition. This is not the way that Scripture should be approached. This is classic eisegesis. There is so much Scripture that forbids the Premil theory that Premil is forced to spiritualize away the clearest and most literal of Scripture, ironically it literalizes the one book that is the most symbolic in Scripture (Revelation). This alone is grounds to reject the doctrine.

For the great day of His wrath has come and who is able to stand. This occurs at the 6th seal. The kings are hiding in the caves because they see Jesus in the clouds sending His angels to gather the elect.

The 7th seal is not even open yet which is the wrath of God.

 

[rebuilder 454]

These are only your words which contradict God's words.

Please post the scripture that directly declares a pre-trib rapture that occurs BEFORE His 2nd Coming and BEFORE the Resurrection.

BEFORE THE FLOOD.
What part of "before , before ,before, there is eating, drinking, normal life,commerce, everyday life,planning for the future" do you NOT UNDERSTAND??????
"BEFORE"?
"BEFORE" WATCH AND BE READY
"BEFORE" NORMAL LIFE SETTING
" BEFORE" Is THE COMING (rapture) AS JESUS SAID.
You can't just hide from Jesus words.

JESUS GAVE YOU the setting for the RAPTURE....NOT THE SECOND COMING ON WHITE HORSES.

You do not understand JESUS gave you the picture of the rapture in the virgin parable.???

You do not understand that DURING THE TRIB THE AC KILLS ALL REFUSING THE MARK...those left behind ones NOT LOOKING for his coming ???????
Who in the world do you think the innumerable number is in heaven DURING THE TRIB???????
Those left behinds foolish virgins DEAL WITH THE AC.

The problem is...you have FORBIDDEN yourself from investigation.

 

[The Light]

That does not work.
The aod is in the middle of the 70th week.

The AOD is in the middle of the week that begins when a 7 year covenant with many is signed.

There is only 3.5 year left in the 70th week.

Daniel 12
6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?

7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

The 7 yr trib ....then the aod 3.5 yrs into the trib.

There is no 7 year tribulation. There is a 7 year period that begins when a covenant with many is signed.

 

[The Light]

Ironically it is they that stay. ( the foolish)

They (postribs) claim to stay.
They position themselves as foolish.

It seems they have a desire to stay, and it will be so.

Unto them that look for Him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Every time you claim 'pre-trib' rapture you speak directly against the Lord Jesus Christ.

Matt 24:29-31 - “Immediately after the tribulation of those days........I Come"

Pre-wrath rapture is 100% Pure TRUTH

Rev 14 is your postrib rapture.
You have been shown 100 times mat 24 gathering is by angels in heaven.
...and yet you STILL TRANSPOSE that into the gathering on earth of 1 thes 4.

Invincible ignorance.

" condemnation prior to investigation"

 

[rebuilder 454]

In every nation there are tares and wheat

The Blood of Christ covers the sins of the Righteous and they are in Fellowship with the FATHER thru His Anointing(HS)

As it is written: "The LORD knows those who are His"

Postribs have said for years " the wicked are ALWAYS GATHERED FIRST.
Then I found 2 verses blowing their theory away.
Destroyed.
Nothing left.
Kinda like the Darby deal that is yet another bogus " power point"


All postribber power points are nothing burgers.

The amazement is , I sank your ship, and you guys are in rafts of debris, floating precariously, and claim victory.

Just hilarious

 

[The Light]

Then when is the second coming of Rev 19 on white horses in power and glory.
There is a pretrib gathering in 1 thes 4, acts 1, Matt 24, Matt 25, the last supper dialogue,the 2 escape verses, and others.
Then a rapture of the jews midtrib ( or some say postrib prewrath...whatever).
Then comes the last half of the trib or great trib or Daniel's 70th week or " the wrath" , or whatever men are now arguing.

But the white horses coming of Rev 19, ENDS the 70th week, or gt, or wrath , or 7 yr trib, ...or whatever men are now calling Daniel's 70th week.
THAT is the SECOND COMING.

The Mid tribulation, gathering of the chews in revelation, chapter 14.
Is the only other gathering of saints.besides the pretribe rapture.
As far as end times
The gathering postrib( post wrath,post gt, post 70th week ) is mat24 "after the trib angels gather in heaven". The saints are gathered post wedding supper in heaven (the bride becoming the wife in Rev 19 as declared) To THE WHITE HORSES IN HEAVEN. GATHERED TO MOUNT HORSES.
( MAT 24 " gathering by angels in heaven").

The coming Jesus in Matthew 24 occurs at the 6th seal. It is the gathering from heaven and earth. The Church is gathered from heaven and the Jews, the seed of the woman, the twelve tribes across the earth, whose eyes are opened, are gathered from the earth. All return to heaven for the marriage supper. That is why there is a great multitude in Revelation 7, some of whom come out of great tribulation.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Revelation 19 as you know is at the end of wrath, after the marriage supper.