Is it possible to lose salvation?

[marks]

No, we don't work to earn our salvation but at the same time disobedience will disqualify people

That is a self contradictory statement. If you lose salvation by disobedience, you've then kept your salvation by obedience. You have a two-link chain, one link, God's grace, the other link, man's works. Your salvation is Faith + Works, equally necessary.

Putting works with grace removes grace from the equation, leaving you with having to fulfull your lifetime of obedience (are you? 100% obedience?), and insuring that salvation won is yours by virtue of your 100% obedience.

Much love!

 

[GodsGrace]

Why would you? I was talking about how you've misrepresented my own words.



Yes. Obviously. I've never said otherwise.

I'm happy to hear that you agree.
So maybe you could stop using the word SHOULD...which I've commented on.
There are no SHOULD's in the bible.
God says something...
It's a command.

Maybe you could make clear statements for those reading along that might be new Christians and it's these for whom I have concern.
I think you're an obedient Christian...
Let's just make sure every Christian reading along understands that we are called to obey.

This is what I say.
We do our best...
Jesus does the rest.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Precious friend, Yes, Correct, and at the very least we "cherry-picked"

Well, you folks need to quit being cherry pickers and instead accept the whole counsel of God which reveals the OSAS thing is not a true biblical doctrine.

It's false doctrine to tell people "it's not possible to lose salvation" when God's Word teaches that one actually can lose their salvation.

If you lose salvation by disobedience, you've then kept your salvation by obedience.

I see, so your claim is we can all live in disobedience and still be saved.

That's what satan's message to Adam and Eve was that they could disobey God and not die spiritually.

That was a disaster and today's false OSAS doctrine is also a disaster leading people to hell because they are being told they are still saved even when living in disobedience which is doctrine of demons.

 

[GodsGrace]

That is a self contradictory statement. If you lose salvation by disobedience, you've then kept your salvation by obedience. You have a two-link chain, one link, God's grace, the other link, man's works. Your salvation is Faith + Works, equally necessary.

Putting works with grace removes grace from the equation, leaving you with having to fulfull your lifetime of obedience (are you? 100% obedience?), and insuring that salvation won is yours by virtue of your 100% obedience.

Much love!

The statement that @Big Boy Johnson has made is NOT contradictory.

The problem is that some Christians don't seem to understand that God demands obedience.
YES marks,,,we keep ourselves saved because we obey God, just as He has told us to.

How many verses do you need???
Aren't those I've posted so far enough for you?

If you do not obey God,,,
you are not of God.

John 14:23-24
23 Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him.
24 "He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father's who sent Me.


Please pay attention to what Jesus has stated in John's gospel.
IF we love HIM we will keep His word.
If we DO NOT love HIM we do not keep His word.

Keeping the word of Jesus means obeying Him.

Yes. We KEEP our salvation by being obedient to God OR it means we do not love Him and if we do not love Him
we are not abiding with Him.

Only those that abide with Jesus belong to Jesus.

 

[marks]

I see, so your claim is we can all live in disobedience and still be saved.

Let's not start twisting my words around, to deflect from something you cannot respond to.


If you lose salvation by disobedience, you've then kept your salvation by obedience. You have a two-link chain, one link, God's grace, the other link, man's works. Your salvation is Faith + Works, equally necessary.

Putting works with grace removes grace from the equation, leaving you with having to fulfull your lifetime of obedience (are you? 100% obedience?), and insuring that salvation won is yours by virtue of your 100% obedience.

You can go ahead and ignore this, no one is forcing you.

Much love!

 

[marks]

The statement that @Big Boy Johnson has made is NOT contradictory.

The problem is that some Christians don't seem to understand that God demands obedience.
YES marks,,,we keep ourselves saved because we obey God, just as He has told us to.

No in fact it is self contradictory.

Read Romans 4. Read Galatians. They both explain how works overcome faith. That is, if you think you must do works to be saved, then that's the final determiner.

If you do not obey God,,,
you are not of God.

And you have your 100% obedience? I sure hope so!

Much love!

 

[marks]

I see, so your claim is we can all live in disobedience and still be saved.

This is in fact a lie, and I have not claimed this, and lying is a sin. You know that, right? Sorry about that salvation! I hope you don't miss it!

Much love!

 

[GodsGrace]

No in fact it is self contradictory.

It is NOT self-contradictory.
If you think it is, then please show us some scripture that states that we could disobey God and STILL be saved.
I cannot find any.
Maybe I could be sinning a life of sin and still be saved!!
It kind of sounds like that is NOT what Jesus is teaching.
But, who knows, maybe YOU are right and HE is wrong.

Please post some scripture.
Thanks.

Read Romans 4. Read Galatians. They both explain how works overcome faith. That is, if you think you must do works to be saved, then that's the final determiner.

Please post the verses you have in mind. I can't read your mind.
Who said works overcome faith?
What does that even mean?

No Christian I know states that we can be saved by our works.
Apparently this is the nuance you don't seem to grasp.
Works do not save anyone.

Works without faith are DEAD WORKS.
Faith without works is a DEAD FAITH.

So we're saved by faith...just as all were in the OT.

Let's move on.
Now we're speaking about saved persons.

Do they have to obey §God or not??

That's a Yes or No reply.

You mentioned Paul's letters.

Here is what Paul taught:

Romans 1:5
5 through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles for His name's sake,

Paul teaches that the Gentiles must obey, by faith (they would be the saved Gentiles because they have faith)....
he calls it the obedience of faith.

Romans 2:6-8
6 who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS:
7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;
8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.


Does Paul also contradict himself??
No.
Paul is very clear in his letters.
In each one of his letters he states HOW we are to BEHAVE in order to be of God, saved and blameless.

And, look, Jesus agrees with Paul ... interesting...

John 5:28-29
28 "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.


Jesus, Paul and every other writer of the NT teach exactly what Jesus taught them....
we are saved by faith in God.
Those saved must do good works and obey God's commandments in order to remain in the Kingdom of God....
which Jesus preached in Matthew 5 and taught how to behave as HE wishes.

We will be judged by these works....

Paul and Jesus state this....

And you have your 100% obedience? I sure hope so!

Much love!

Strawman.
You keep bringing up the strawman.
WHO said we have to obey 100%?

Do you not know that only Jesus was 100% obedient?

Or, do you believe that since YOU cannot be 100% perfect,
then disobeying God is OK.....

 

[GodsGrace]

This is in fact a lie, and I have not claimed this, and lying is a sin. You know that, right? Sorry about that salvation! I hope you don't miss it!

Much love!

If you claim that good works are not necessary, as Jesus and Paul taught....
then you are teaching that obedience to God is not necessary.

Maybe, marks, you're not aware of what you're actually stating.

 

[Kokyu]

I'm happy to hear that you agree.
So maybe you could stop using the word SHOULD...which I've commented on.
There are no SHOULD's in the bible.
God says something...
It's a command.

Luke 11:42
42 “But woe to you Pharisees! For you tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass by justice and the love of God. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.

John 13:15
15 For I have given you an example, that you should do as I have done to you.

John 16:1
1 “These things I have spoken to you, that you should not be made to stumble.

Romans 7:4
4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God.


When I used "should," I wasn't speaking from God's side, but from ours. God commands us to obey, yes, but the believer is not compelled by God to do so and, often, chooses not to obey. Hence, I say that a Christian should obey God, not that they will obey Him.

 

[Kokyu]

Maybe you could make clear statements for those reading along that might be new Christians and it's these for whom I have concern.

It isn't, I think, that my statements are unclear, it is that you don't care to understand what I'm writing and so don't ask me what I mean. Instead, you've assumed my meaning, imagining thinking on my part, rather than letting what I write speak for itself. As a result, you've often argued against things in your responses to me which I don't believe nor have actually espoused.

I think you're an obedient Christian...
Let's just make sure every Christian reading along understands that we are called to obey.

I think you're an obedient Christian, too (as much as you can be).

Anyone reading my posts will find no instance where I say that they are free to disobey God. In fact, they will find the opposite stated in my posts a number of times, instead. So, yes, I agree we should urge our brethren to holy living - and I've done so faithfully in what I've written.

 

[marks]

WHO said we have to obey 100%?

You do. Or maybe I've misunderstood you. I've heard you saying that obedience is required to be saved, specifically, to stay saved.

So . . . are you obedient? And therefore, staying saved?

Much love!

 

[GRACE ambassador]

There are no SHOULD's in the bible.

Precious friend, you just hit the crux of this whole discussion?:

"Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, ( By Grace ye Are Saved; )...​

...​

For by Grace Are ye Saved Through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is The Gift of God: Not of works,​

lest any man should boast. For we Are His Workmanship, Created In Christ Jesus Unto good works,​

which God Hath before Ordained That we should walk in them." (Ephesians 2:5-10 AV)​

Amen. And Much GRACE!!

 

[marks]

Anyone reading my posts will find no instance where I say that they are free to disobey God. In fact, they will find the opposite stated in my posts a number of times, instead. So, yes, I agree we should urge our brethren to holy living - and I've done so faithfully in what I've written.

It's just a straw man. No one says that.

Personally, I think this is a display of hypocracy, as they claim obedience is required. I don't think any one here is fully obedient to God.

Much love!

 

[GodsGrace]

Precious friend, you just hit the crux of this whole discussion?:

"Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, ( By Grace ye Are Saved; )...​

...​

For by Grace Are ye Saved Through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is The Gift of God: Not of works,​

lest any man should boast. For we Are His Workmanship, Created In Christ Jesus Unto good works,​

which God Hath before Ordained That we should walk in them." (Ephesians 2:5-10 AV)​

Amen. And Much GRACE!!

Of course we're saved by grace.
I don't know of any Christian that disagrees with this.

And of course we were sinners when we got saved.

What does this have to do with being obedient to God?

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

This is in fact a lie, and I have not claimed this, and lying is a sin.

Teaching false doctrine is the lie

You do actually believe that disobedience does not keep one from being saved.

That's what supporters of OSAS believe because they teach lawlessness

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Teaching false doctrine is the lie

You do actually believe that disobedience does not keep one from being saved.

That's what supporters of OSAS believe because they teach lawlessness

actually the reason we NEED SAVED. is because we have not lived up to Gods standard. because we have been and are disobedient.

so unless you think you have met Gods standard. This post is nonsensical.

you want to pump your chest like the pharisee. or get on your knees like the tax collector?

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

actually the reason we NEED SAVED. is because we have not lived up to Gods standard. because we have been and are disobedient.

so unless you think you have met Gods standard. This post is nonsensical.

you want to pump your chest like the pharisee. or get on your knees like the tax collector?

All some folks have is blindness as they are ignorant of the Gospel and how the things of God works

 

[marks]

Teaching false doctrine is the lie

Dance away from this if you want, but you've been lying about me. So there is your obedience. Even 1% sin is still deadly.

Much love!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

All some folks have is blindness as they are ignorant of the Gospel and how the things of God works

Like evidently you are?

Notice you had no comeback at all. is it because deep down inside you know I am right ?