LEFT BEHIND ... what to do?

[Marty fox]

Same apostle John who was shown Revelation and recorded it for us???

I believe so

 

[Marty fox]

But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. Matt. 24:37-39

Those people heard Noah preach, saw him build the Ark and laughed, did not believe. Their normal everyday activities were taking place, uninterrupted. There wasn't any Tribulation other than the evils they themselves caused.
Would you get married right after an 8.0 earthquake hit your town. Would you be undisturbed. Imagine you loved in NY when 9/11 happened. You're on your way to a family breakfast and you see the planes crash into the towers. Would you just take a quick glance, think, "AH too bad ... oh well I must be getting along to my family beakfast", continue on as if that was more important?
When Jesus comes, people will be surprised, He will come like a thief on the night (to unbelievers who are in the dark) as the Flood cane. If anyone back then suspected danger they would have entered into the Ark and been welcomed. But once Noah closed the door, it was too late.

The ones taken in Noah’s day were taken in judgement it was better to of been left behind

Luke 17
26 “When the Son of Man returns, it will be like it was in Noah’s day. 27 In those days, the people enjoyed banquets and parties and weddings right up to the time Noah entered his boat and the flood came and destroyed them all.

28 “And the world will be as it was in the days of Lot. People went about their daily business—eating and drinking, buying and selling, farming and building— 29 until the morning Lot left Sodom. Then fire and burning sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all. 30 Yes, it will be ‘business as usual’ right up to the day when the Son of Man is revealed. 31 On that day a person out on the deck of a roof must not go down into the house to pack. A person out in the field must not return home.32 Remember what happened to Lot’s wife! 33 If you cling to your life, you will lose it, and if you let your life go, you will save it.34 That night two people will be asleep in one bed; one will be taken, the other left. 35 Two women will be grinding flour together at the mill; one will be taken, the other left.[i]”

37 “Where will this happen, Lord?”[j] the disciples asked.

Jesus replied, “Just as the gathering of vultures shows there is a carcass nearby, so these signs indicate that the end is near.”[k]

 

[Marty fox]

Read the scriptures I just gave you. You seem to want to discard them and create some hypothetical merciful situation. God is a God of forgiveness and mercy but He is also a God of justice and telling you his boundaries. You cross this line ( take the mark of the Beast) and it's over for you. Capisce? You sound like Democrat - out of touch, living in an alternative universe.

I don’t discard them at all I agree with them it’s about what exactly is the mark of the beast.

The only way those verses and John 3:16 don’t contradict each other is if the mark is symbolic for unrepentant devotion to the beast

Once again John 3:16 doesn’t say unless you take the mark of the beast

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The day of Christ (referred to in 2Thessalonians2:2) begins in 2Thessalonians2:4.

Since we have eternal life in Christ our Lord, the day of the Lord is eternal.

Where does scripture say this? When we see descriptions of the day of the Lord we see mentions of His second coming, our being gathered to Him and His enemies being destroyed with the heavens and the earth being burned up. Where are the mentions of the day of the Lord being eternal? You are once again just making things up.

 

[ewq1938]

The GWTJ happens at the end of the NEXT age...not this one. The judgement of Christ is the coming judgement at the end of THIS age.

And the one taken and left happen in this age, not the next age and not at the GWTJ.

 

[MatthewG]

I believe that great white throne judgement or whatever happened concering the Mosaic age as a whole.



Why do I believe this? Because all thse souls in hell were dumped out of hell and judged.

We dont worry about hell today... all that is left is the inside or outside of the KIngdom of Heaven.

 

[quietthinker]

1)Israel will go through a series of successful judgements that will eradicate all non believing jews and restore faith in the Messiah to the elect jews.( Joel 2:32)

2)Two thirds of Israel will be destroyed by judgement.(Zech 13:8)

3)Half of Jerusalem will be destroyed.(Zech 14:2)

4)The remaining one third elect will cry "blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord" and repent to have faith in Jesus Christ(Matt 23:39)

5)And so all Israel shall be saved (Rom11:26)

6) Jew and Gentile will be united into an everlasting Messianic Kingdom(Eph 2:15-22)

Interpretation without the lens of Jesus inevitably ends up with what you've cobbled.

 

[quietthinker]

Just think that "walk about" will do you good ... just stay away from the Never-Never.

If only you would make enquiry instead of a condescending self satisfied approach, the Son of Righteousness might shine for you.

 

[David in NJ]

And will you be at the front of the queue to condemn Sabbath keepers when the Sunday laws are established?

sabbath keeping cannot save a single soul
UNLESS
they are keeping God's Sabbath Rest which is CHRIST

 

[Truth7t7]

But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. Matt. 24:37-39

Those people heard Noah preach, saw him build the Ark and laughed, did not believe. Their normal everyday activities were taking place, uninterrupted. There wasn't any Tribulation other than the evils they themselves caused.
Would you get married right after an 8.0 earthquake hit your town. Would you be undisturbed. Imagine you loved in NY when 9/11 happened. You're on your way to a family breakfast and you see the planes crash into the towers. Would you just take a quick glance, think, "AH too bad ... oh well I must be getting along to my family beakfast", continue on as if that was more important?
When Jesus comes, people will be surprised, He will come like a thief on the night (to unbelievers who are in the dark) as the Flood cane. If anyone back then suspected danger they would have entered into the Ark and been welcomed. But once Noah closed the door, it was too late.

A bunch of story telling with human interjection, not one biblical scripture proving a pre-trib rapture, because it doesn't exist in the Holy Bible

 

[Truth7t7]

Read the scriptures I just gave you. You seem to want to discard them and create some hypothetical merciful situation. God is a God of forgiveness and mercy but He is also a God of justice and telling you his boundaries. You cross this line ( take the mark of the Beast) and it's over for you. Capisce? You sound like Democrat - out of touch, living in an alternative universe.

Start providing "ONE" scripture at a time to support your claim of a pre-trib rapture, waiting?

 

[shepherdsword]

Interpretation without the lens of Jesus inevitably ends up with what you've cobbled.

Jesus will save them all...just as Paul said. However, they must be judged first.

 

[David in NJ]

Read the scriptures I just gave you. You seem to want to discard them and create some hypothetical merciful situation. God is a God of forgiveness and mercy but He is also a God of justice and telling you his boundaries. You cross this line ( take the mark of the Beast) and it's over for you. Capisce? You sound like Democrat - out of touch, living in an alternative universe.

a God of justice and telling you His boundaries.

Now apply what you correctly stated about God's Boundaries and the Truth will set you FREE

Here is God's Boundary for you and everyone = Proverbs 30:5-6

Every word of God is tested;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words(pre-trib rapture)
Or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar.

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

"left behind"? recommendations?:

After God's Great GRACE Departure!:

For those who are not under The Double Deception Of 2 Thessalonians 2:8-12 AV, having Refused
The Gospel Of Grace!:

1) Direct them Directly to Israel's Scriptures about The Time Of Jacob's Trouble (Hebrews Through

Revelation), so they will learn quickly to:​

2) Pay attention to God's Sealed 144,000 and

3) The message of The Two Witnesses

4) The Everlasting Gospel preached "by an angel!"

Amen.

 

[David in NJ]

"left behind"? recommendations?:

After God's Great GRACE Departure!:

For those who are not under The Double Deception Of 2 Thessalonians 2:8-12 AV, having Refused
The Gospel Of Grace!:

1) Direct them Directly to Israel's Scriptures about The Time Of Jacob's Trouble (Hebrews Through

Revelation), so they will learn quickly to:​

2) Pay attention to God's Sealed 144,000 and

3) The message of The Two Witnesses

4) The Everlasting Gospel preached "by an angel!"

Amen.

the Lord Jesus Christ says that the only people who get left behind will be those who reject His words

Let brotherly love continue. Do not forget to entertain strangers, for by so doing some have unwittingly entertained angels. 3Remember the prisoners as if chained with them—those who are mistreated—since you yourselves are in the body also.

Marriage is honorable among all, and the bed undefiled; but fornicators and adulterers God will judge.

Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have.
For He Himself has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.” So we may boldly say:

“The Lord is my helper;
I will not fear.
What can man do to me?”

@GRACE ambassador, pre-trib rapture is a man-made lie , so also is the man-made fear tactic of being 'left-behind'

Turn back to the Lord Jesus Christ and pray that your heart is set free from the idol of pre-trib.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Why is it critics NEVER STOP with this "ONE-verse doctrine" stuff? God's Sound Doctrine
usually "takes Much More" Than That If one goes by structured Bible study Rules, eh?
Anyways, Biblical Confirmation of pre-trib can be ascertained thusly:

By comprehensive [ over 200+ Passages Of ] Scriptural study Of
God's Great GRACE Departure!:

"Outline!":

"Do all things Decently And In order!!" (1 Corinthians 14:40 AV)

(1) PEACE With God! "Receiving" The Holy Spirit For understanding?
(2) Which BIBLE: AV! or, Any "newer modern version" will suffice?

(3a) God's Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided! Brief Intro
(3b) God's Three Ages Rightly Divided Timelines

(4) Which "Gospel!" Makes Way For Which "Gospel"?
(5) GREAT Tribulation? or, tribulations/GREAT GRACE Departure!?

(6) Pre-TOJT GRACE Departure "Expectations!"?
(7) God's HEAVENLY UPlook For HIS Body!

(8) "Watching, Waiting, And Looking" for WHOM! or, "signs"?
(9) God's Removal Of His Body!

(10) Day of Christ vs Day of The Lord vs Day Of God?
(11) CONFIDENCE in death/resurrection!, OR, in living/glorification!!?

(12) CHRIST Will RETURN "Without Warning!"?
(13) The TWO "Trumps" Of God!, In HIS "Age Of GRACE!!"?

(14) Meeting HIM "In The Air!" to Heaven!! vs U-turn (theology?) Back To earth?
(15) Preparation For Judgment! (accounting "for every word spoken"?)

(16) Post Departure "Deception! Question"?

Conclusion!: (17) God's Great GRACE Departure!

Jesus Is LORD, And "Head of the Body" which will participate In The Above! = Hallelujah!

Amen.

 

[David in NJ]

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?”
And I said to him, “Sir, you know.”
So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple.

All who preach pre-trib rapture are speaking falsehood

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

I'm sorry, but that sounds like a ridiculous answer. Your arguments?:
1) I haven't heard that one before... Well, actually I have. And it's against Pretrib, so....
2) The Tribulation Period you're describing isn't really different from suffering in the present age. Well, actually it is... It will be worse, or more.

What kind of argument is this? My complaint was based on over 50 years of reading about this material. None of it was made up by me except how I, as a Postrib, view Pretrib scenarios as inconsonant with the real biblical picture of the endtimes.

Yes, Pretribbers paint an extreme picture of what they see as the "Great Tribulation" in order to coerce Christians to become serious immediately, since they think the Rapture could happen anytime, and if they aren't ready they may have to face the Antichrist and all of God's Wrath to come down upon the world at that time. What about this isn't in all of the Pretrib movies??

But I believe the real, biblical "Great Tribulation" is the Jewish Diaspora of the NT age--not the Reign of Antichrist. And what makes this Tribulation for the Jews greater than any other is the fact is *lasts longer* than any other punishment the Jews have suffered. It began in 70 AD and ends with the 2nd Coming at the very end of the age.

Why do I say this? It's because this is how Jesus defined the "Great Tribulation" or the "Great Distress" in each of the Gospel accounts of the Olivet Discourse. This was a *Jewish Punishment* to begin in Jesus' generation and to begin with the fall of the Temple and the city of Jerusalem.

It would begin with the "People of the Prince to come" in Dan 9, who would "destroy the city and the sanctuary," named the "Abomination of Desolation" in vs. 27. Jesus used the same term which is described in Luke 21 as Jerusalem being surrounded bu armies. And the Gospel accounts of the Olivet Discourse do point back to Daniel.

I've shared this definition of the "Great Tribulation," given by Jesus, many times. And nobody is able to refute it because it is precisely what Jesus said. I challenge anybody to question what is said here, defining the "Great Tribulation" as a Jewish Punishment to happen in Jesus' generation!....

Luke 21.20 “When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. 22 For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written. 23 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. 24 They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled."

So, this is where you go wrong with your "more" suffering during the Reign of Antichrist. This "Great Tribulation" is not the Reign of Antichrist, his persecution of backslidden Christians at that time, and God's wrath to judge the Antichristian world. Rather, the Reign of Antichrist will just be the final antichrist among many in the present age. And instead of a variety of examples of God's wrath in the present age, the final wrath will be more encompassing, just like Noah's Flood encompassed an entire civilization.

That 3.5 year period will end with a bang because it will end with world judgment at the coming of Christ to destroy Antichrist with his word. So, at the very end it will be very extreme for the world, and that will be the worst for those under judgment. But for Christians who have bravely resisted Antichristianity in the world, it will mean Christ's return to rescue them. And for the Jews it will be the end of an age-long period of suffering, and the beginning of a great national revival at the return of their Messiah.

Israel will be punished for certain. God actually gathers all nations against her then Jesus comes and destroys those nations. I could list the scriptures supporting this butnyou should be aware of them. While this is going on Romans 11 kicks in and a remnant Jewish population is converted to Christ. He saves 1/3 and the rest perish. So yes they are put throught the fire but protected as well. We see in Rev. 7 & 14 the 144k sealed before angels are instructed to cause natural catastrophies and harm to the earth.
But here is an interesting perspective. The Antichrist isn't given power until the Restrainer ( Holy Spirit) is taken out of the way. We are the Temple of the Holy Spirit. So when we go so does all that has been restraining evil. It allows Satan to do his thing - see how that works. Evil os unrestrained and so when we go, all Hell breaks loose. Otherwise, he would have difficulty with us present and the power of God restraining evil. He is granted 3 1/2 years and he will persecute those left behind, who were on the fence about Christ and go after the remnant new Christian Jews.
As in the days of Noah so shall it be in the days of the coming of the Lord. There was no great tribulation before the Flood other than what they created themselves. People were being married and going about their normal routines, mocking and laughing at Noah and his Ark until the doors were shut. Pre-Trib is likened to Noah's family getting on the boat and then sudden destruction hits. Jesus is our Ark. We are in Christ and will be protected, not subject to wrath.
The faithful church will be kept from the hour of trial. The church is not appointed to wrath that will come upon the whole earth - not just Israel.
"Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth." Rev. 3:10
Aside from Revelation, these are supported scriptures for the post above.

Gen. 12:3
Zeph. 2:1-3
Zech. 12:3, 9, 10
Zech. 14:2-4, 12
Dan. 12:1
Isaiah 1:28
Isaiah 13:9-13
Isaiah 33:14
Isaiah 66:15-16
Ezek. 39:11
Psalm 11:6
Matt. 3:12
2 Thes. 2:6-7

 

[Truth7t7]

God's Great GRACE Departure!:

Do you believe this Depature/Rapture is pre-tribulation?

If yes please provide one scripture at a time so we can vetter understand and test your claims?

 

[Randy Kluth]

Israel will be punished for certain. God actually gathers all nations against her then Jesus comes and destroys those nations. I could list the scriptures supporting this butnyou should be aware of them. While this is going on Romans 11 kicks in and a remnant Jewish population is converted to Christ. He saves 1/3 and the rest perish. So yes they are put throught the fire but protected as well. We see in Rev. 7 & 14 the 144k sealed before angels are instructed to cause natural catastrophies and harm to the earth.

Sounds reasonable to me.

But here is an interesting perspective. The Antichrist isn't given power until the Restrainer ( Holy Spirit) is taken out of the way. We are the Temple of the Holy Spirit. So when we go so does all that has been restraining evil. It allows Satan to do his thing - see how that works. Evil os unrestrained and so when we go, all Hell breaks loose. Otherwise, he would have difficulty with us present and the power of God restraining evil. He is granted 3 1/2 years and he will persecute those left behind, who were on the fence about Christ and go after the remnant new Christian Jews.

The Early Church viewed the "Restrainer" as the Roman government. Both here and in the book of Revelation the Roman identification with something perverse or corrupt is covered up and made known only to wise Christians who recognized the language inferring Rome. Paul indicates that the Thessalonians knew who he was talking about. This goes back to the 4th Kingdom in Dan 7.

The 4th Kingdom was Rome, in my view, and cannot bring forth the Man of Sin, the "Little Horn," until after this 4th Kingdom has divided up into a minimum of 10 countries. And so, as long as the Empire stood, the Antichrist could not arrive. In fact, Imperialism has reigned in some form in Europe for most of NT history. In the modern age we do see the divided states of Europe that are now increasingly turning to Antichristianity. The Man of Sin should be arriving soon!

Needless to say, I reject the theory that the Restrainer is the Holy Spirit. Paul could easily have said this. Obviously, he was hiding the identity.

As in the days of Noah so shall it be in the days of the coming of the Lord. There was no great tribulation before the Flood other than what they created themselves. People were being married and going about their normal routines, mocking and laughing at Noah and his Ark until the doors were shut. Pre-Trib is likened to Noah's family getting on the boat and then sudden destruction hits. Jesus is our Ark. We are in Christ and will be protected, not subject to wrath.
The faithful church will be kept from the hour of trial. The church is not appointed to wrath that will come upon the whole earth - not just Israel.
"Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth." Rev. 3:10

Rev 3.10, the church of Philadelphia, was a church in John's day, and was able to escape a time of intense trouble over the Empire at that time. This has nothing to do with the Reign of Antichrist, which isn't even mentioned.

The comparison of the Flood to the Day of Wrath is purely associated with the lack of human will to prepare for that day of judgment by repenting. It had nothing to do with whether national Israel had been punished severely for a long time before that day. In fact, Israel did not even exist yet.

So you're trying to create a perfect parallel where one cannot be made realistically. But the lack of religiosity and the lack of preparation is clearly the main idea in warning future generations not to be negligent in avoiding the sins of our times.

A major element in this parallel is the fact the judgment will be comprehensive at the end of the age, just as it was comprehensive in Noah's time. The world will not end, but everything will be shaken up, rebellion being completely eliminated across the world.