Religion : The "broad way" that leads to Hell.

[Triumph1300]

No amount of works can save anyone, but if you don’t have any works to back up your faith it’s not worth anything anyway. Read James 2:18-26...”faith without works is dead”. You need both. God requires something from us.....our obedience.

"Faith without works is dead"----> Correct, it's in the Bible.
And.......works comes as a result of salvation.
(If there is no "works" you are not saved in the first place.)

A saved person wants to do good, it comes naturel for a Christian to be Christ like.
It's very simple, really.

It's people making things complicated.

As for differences....1 Cor 1:10 tells us that we cannot be divided theologically......we must of necessity, all believe one truth with “ no divisions”. How many truths are there....? Where does that leave the divided mess that Christendom has become?

Well....that's people for you.
The evidence is right here on the forum.

I believe that "no divisions" is not a condition for salvation.
Just because there are divisions does not mean "no salvation".

The only condition for salvation is believing what Christ did on the cross.

Yes it is a divided mess, luckily God decided that people in this divided mess can be saved because of what Christ did. PTL!

 

[Aunty Jane]

"Faith without works is dead"----> Correct, it's in the Bible.
And.......works comes as a result of salvation.
(If there is no "works" you are not saved in the first place.)

Works without faith have no value to God, but some do to man....
There are many “good” people in the world who are not Christians but they are great humanitarians.

Since Jesus said in quoting God’s Law, we must ‘love God with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength, and to to love our neighbor as ourselves’, it is apparent that love of neighbor comes second.
If love of God is missing, then the second part has no real value for the person performing it....except to the their fellow man.

God never said he was going to save “good” people....he is looking for obedient ones...those who can do as they are told. Imagine if Adam and his wife has just done that! Imagine if Israel had!?

A saved person wants to do good, it comes naturel for a Christian to be Christ like.
It's very simple, really.

It's people making things complicated.

That is true....it should be natural for those professing to be Christians, to be Christ-like in their attitudes and behavior......but that isn’t what we see, is it? Christianity down through the centuries has seen divisions over nationality, doctrine and politics with much bloodshed. That is a far cry from 1 Cor 1:10.
Nor is it obedience to Jesus words in Matt 5:43-44....to “love our enemies”.

Well....that's people for you.
The evidence is right here on the forum.

I believe that "no divisions" is not a condition for salvation.
Just because there are divisions does not mean "no salvation".

There are not many ‘versions’ of the truth....there can only be one......and apparently “few” find it. (Matt 7:13-14)
There are only two spiritual tables at which to feed.....if God is not feeding us, then satan is....due to the mastery of his deception, most people can’t tell the difference. (1 Cor 10:21)

The only condition for salvation is believing what Christ did on the cross.

“Believing” is what happens first....then, motivated by love for God, works must follow. No works means that believing is not enough. What did James write...
“You believe that there is one God, do you? You are doing quite well. And yet the demons believe and shudder.”

There is more to “believing” than just the mental acknowledgment of Christ’s sacrifice. Ones lifestyle has to demonstrate a change in personality...to strip off the old one with its practices, and put on the new one.

Col 3:5-10...ESV...
“Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. On account of these the wrath of God is coming. In these you too once walked, when you were living in them. But now you must put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and obscene talk from your mouth. Do not lie to one another, seeing that you have put off the old self with its practices and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge after the image of its creator.”

Yes it is a divided mess, luckily God decided that people in this divided mess can be saved because of what Christ did. PTL!

He did!......but first they had to remove themselves from that divided mess in order to promote one truth, of one God, and one Kingdom to return all things to God under Christ.

The pattern was set in the first century.....the Jews rejected the teachings of Jesus Christ as apostasy and his miracles of the spirit, as coming from the devil....they were the accepted majority, so most people stuck to what they were comfortable with.....those who followed Jesus Christ (the lost sheep) had to eventually separate from the Jews as hostility mounted. With the murder of their leader, the religious leaders imagined a victory, but nothing could have been further from the truth. The preaching that they wanted to silence, would go out into “the entire inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations” before the foretold “end” would come. (Matt 24:14)

The true God values truth and justice, which means that he is the arbiter of what is acceptable to him and what isn’t. If his word says “no divisions”....then that is his standard.
In his relationship with Israel, there was one code encompassing the entirety of their beliefs and worship.
No one was permitted to step outside of what God had prescribed. God doesn’t change.

Christ too had one truth to teach....it was the Pharisees who had introduced false doctrines. (Matt 15:7-9) Christendom too has introduced so many conflicting doctrines that the average person doesn’t know who to believe.....they can’t all be right...but they could all be wrong, and the truth will be found among those whom the majority reject as heretics.....it’s not unprecedented. It’s a test.

 

[Triumph1300]

Christendom too has introduced so many conflicting doctrines that the average person doesn’t know who to believe.....they can’t all be right...but they could all be wrong, and the truth will be found among those whom the majority reject as heretics.....it’s not unprecedented. It’s a test.

Well, I suppose JW must be the only saved bunch on the face of the earth according to you.

I say that the person believing and accepting what Jesus did at the cross is saved.
Never mind human invented denominations and their legalism.

 

[Deleted member 26788]

Well, I suppose JW must be the only saved bunch on the face of the earth according to you.

I say that the person believing and accepting what Jesus did at the cross is saved.
Never mind human invented denominations and their legalism.

It's been my observation but God can be very precise on how he wants things done or how he will accept things. He is not desperate so desperate that he will accept any form of worship He wants it his way and since he is God he can have it his way

 

[Aunty Jane]

Well, I suppose JW must be the only saved bunch on the face of the earth according to you.

I say that the person believing and accepting what Jesus did at the cross is saved.
Never mind human invented denominations and their legalism.

It’s not what you call yourself....it’s how you live your life, and what you accept as truth that leads to salvation. Jesus outlined two specific requirements for salvation.....

Before his arrest and sacrificial death, in prayer to his Father, Jesus said...

“...Father, the hour has come; glorify your Son that the Son may glorify you, since you have given him authority over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom you have given him. And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. I glorified you on earth, having accomplished the work that you gave me to do. And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed. “I have manifested your name to the people whom you gave me out of the world. Yours they were, and you gave them to me, and they have kept your word. Now they know that everything that you have given me is from you. For I have given them the words that you gave me, and they have received them and have come to know in truth that I came from you; and they have believed that you sent me. . . . . I have given them your word, and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. I do not ask that you take them out of the world, but that you keep them from the evil one. They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth.” (John 17:1-8,14-17 ESV)

If you read Jesus’ words there without reading over what they are actually saying, his words are important.
“And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.”

If we do not know the God who sent Jesus Christ into the world, then our worship will be in vain.
It is not just that people do not know “the only true God” but Jesus will also say to them at the judgment, “I never knew you!” (Matt 7:21-23) Those who do not know the God who sent his son into the world to save mankind, are not known by either of them.

To treat Christ’s sacrifice as some kind of ‘everlasting insurance policy’ based on belief alone is a mistake....if you don’t keep renewing the policy, your insurance certificate becomes invalid. There are terms and conditions...and a cost attached to Christ’s sacrifice, but failing to live up to the terms and conditions won’t save anyone.

We can all claim to know God and his son, but do we know them as Jesus taught about him, and as the prophets of God knew him centuries ago? Is the god of Christendom, the same God? Or did the foretold apostasy create a different god that is now widely accepted among professed Christians?

How well do we really know God and his son? Do we know them as the apostles did?
How did they describe the God they worshipped as opposed to the false gods of the nations?

1 Cor 8:5-6....
“For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”— yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.” (ESV)

Who was their “one God”? And do we understand the difference between “from” and “through”? (Col 1:15-17)
If we carefully read the Bible and meditate on what it actually says, as opposed to what we assume that it says, we will become genuine students of God’s word, and equipped for the work that Jesus assigned to all of his disciples. (Matt 28:19-20; Matt 24:14; 2 Tim 3:16-17)

 

[Triumph1300]

It’s not what you call yourself....it’s how you live your life, and what you accept as truth that leads to salvation. Jesus outlined two specific requirements for salvation.....

You are totally occupied with legalism and works.
You cannot work your way into heaven.

Jesus saves you when you believe in Him and what He did at the cross for you.
If you truthfully believe that everything will fall into place.
You will live a life guided by the Holy Spirit.

Everything you do "as works to save yourself" is useless, and by doing so you are saying what Jesus did was not good enough to save me.

Why is that so difficult to believe for some people?
Here's why: Because of denominational rules, regulations and brainwashing tactics.
Get out of bondage, Jesus has set you free the moment you came to him.

 

[Triumph1300]

It's been my observation but God can be very precise on how he wants things done or how he will accept things.

The Bible is very clear.
Be born again.
Accept what Christ did at the cross.
And you will be saved.

All your works will not save you.

Only Jesus saves you.
Works comes as a RESULT OF SALVATION.

 

[Deleted member 26788]

And you will be saved.

saved from what ? in the resurrection people will be saved from death /saved from the grave

 

[Triumph1300]

saved from what ?

Really? You don't know anything about salvation?

 

[Deleted member 26788]

You are totally occupied with legalism and works.
You cannot work your way into heaven.

oh, you have so much to learn

 

[Triumph1300]

oh grasshopper, you have so much to learn

Well ok then.

 

[Behold]

What on earth can you teach me that I haven’t already researched after 50 odd years

Paul's Theology.... = You dont know any of it.
If you did you'd never post that "Not all Christians go to Heaven" and "not all Christians are born again".

You make me laugh....thick as a brick eh? What does that make you then?

What does what i posted to you, say about me.?
It reveals that i try to help people on forums everytime im on one... who are lost in a Cult theology.
That's why im responding to you.

No Scripture penetrates with you if it’s not from Paul..

Well, what you are not understanding is..that Paul's Doctrine is NT Church Doctrine.
Any teaching that opposes this is false and any person who does not understand this, is not really a NT Student, and my not actually be a Christian.

What Jesus demonstrated was his abhorrence of false religious leaders, teaching what was not truth and leading the people down a completely dark path. All teachers have double accountability....be warned.

Teaching Paul's Gospel and Paul's Doctrine is requried of a Christian Minister.
Anything less, is not acceptable to God.

Well then, that describes your excuse for yelling at people who don’t accept what you think is the truth, doesn’t it? You are their judge and jury...be careful about that too. (1 Cor 10:12)

I dont yell at forum members., but i do have a strong personality, and im very direct.
I absolutely dont flex and accept false theology that is posted to me or that i happen to read..., so, that is what you are feeling when we converse here.

Paul teaches that Love is vitally important, but he also teaches that if a person can't be corrected of their false theology... and you try 2-3 times, then that person is "subverted withitn themselves" and are too far gone to help....and are to be put out of the congregation.

The “sinners” had to repent if they wanted to follow Jesus...what did he say?...”go and sin no more”

Paul never told anyone to "go and sin no more"
Paul never told anyone that water baptism is requried for Salvation.
Paul never told anyone to "confess sin".

The reason you dont know any of this is because you are a devout student of JW theology, ... only.

. Is that what you teach? Or do you think that being “born again” according to your definition, (which I reject out of hand) means that you can’t sin in your “born again” condition?

"Where there is no LAW, there is no Sin (Transgression found).)"""

See.......Its the Law that defines sin, and sinners.

A.) The born again are "not under the Law".

AA.) "The Law came by Moses, but GRACE and TRUTH, came by Jesus The Christ".

AAA.) "Christ is the End of The Law, for Righteousness for everyone who Believes". (The born again. Christians).

Were the apostles born again? Did that mean that they couldn’t sin and lose their reward?

A Reward is something you receive for your effort.

Salvation is a "GIFT" from God... that you receive by Faith........not by effort.

We have to remain “faithful until death”....to receive the reward..

The "reward" is not Salvation.. the reward is a "crown"... and this is given to any born again Christian who has never had a faith lapse, never doubted, even once.
Paul never did....this is why He said....>"i have KEPT the Faith". and there is a "Crown" waiting for me in Glory.

.”enduring to the end”....what does that mean to you/

Matt 25, speaks of "enduring to the end".
This is Jesus speaking prophetically.
He says that you are to endure to the end, when you see the "Abomination of Desolation"....and that is revealed during the Great Trib....during the last 3.5 yrs of the Tribulation.. So, if a person is there they, are not a Christian right now...and they will have to endure to the end of it, as part of what they have to do to go to heaven.

Born again Christians wont face that, as born again Christians are already "one with God".. "In Christ".

 

[Triumph1300]

Born again Christians wont face that, as born again Christians are already "one with God".. "In Christ".

JWs don't understand that.
Jws need to work their butts off to "stay or become saved", that's what they are told by the WatchTower Society.

They stay in bondage, wrapped up in legalism.
What Christ did on the cross did not save them, they have to EARN their salvation.

What Christ did is not enough for them, THEY think they are more than Christ.
They work themselves to death to get saved, they earn points to get closer to their salvation.

Bit by bit they get closer, as long as they keep track of their works.

They don't know salvation is a free gift as soon as they accept Christ did it all at the cross.

They don't know "works" comes as a result of salvation, and only through the Holy Spirit.
They labour and labour and labour, all in vein.

No wonder they all look so sad standing on the sidewalk giving out their misguided information.

And if they have no response they " name you a grasshopper".

 

[Deleted member 26788]

grasshopper".

are you so young that you dont know where grasshopper came from?

 

[Aunty Jane]

The “sinners” had to repent if they wanted to follow Jesus...what did he say?...”go and sin no more”

Paul never told anyone to "go and sin no more"
Paul never told anyone that water baptism is requried for Salvation.
Paul never told anyone to "confess sin".

Well, there you have the reason why so many disagree with your flawed theology.....Paul wasn’t the son of God, but was taught by him. He did not teach anything different to what Jesus and the other apostles did.

Jesus said “go and sin no more”......do you think Paul disagreed with him?

Peter said, in Acts 2:36-42, after the outpouring of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, when he spoke openly about the crime that the Jewish people had participated in with murder of an innocent man....whom they now recognized as their Messiah....

“Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.” (KJV)

Did Paul agree with Peter in this? What does repentance include?...it includes baptism and confession of sin.
On the road to Damascus, Saul (Paul) was visited by the risen Jesus, and given instructions so that his sight would be restored.....a man named Ananias was told to expect him....

What was the result?
“And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost. And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.” (Acts 9:17-18, KJV)

Where do you get the idea that baptism is not necessary?

Paul wrote to the Corinthians....
“For though I made you sorry with a letter, I do not repent, though I did repent: for I perceive that the same epistle hath made you sorry, though it were but for a season. Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing. For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.” (2 Cor 7:8-10 KJV)

I understand why you don’t quote much Scripture.....you have obviously never really studied it.

The reason you dont know any of this is because you are a devout student of JW theology, ... only.

What you “don’t know” would fill volumes.....your own theology does not stand up to scrutiny. ....you are all bluff and bluster and very short on Bible knowledge.
You double down even when your theology is demolished.

 

[Behold]

Jws need to work their butts off to "stay or become saved", that's what they are told by the WatchTower Society.
They stay in bondage, wrapped up in legalism.
They work themselves to death to get saved, they earn points to get closer to their salvation.

They are what Paul defines as..

"Being ignorant of God's righteousness, they go about trying to establish their own"..

And that is "Self Righteouensss".., and God wont accept it.

One of the sad facts about many who have already gone to Hell or will go.. .is the fact that they were water baptized and worked so hard to go to heaven, on their way to Hell.

 

[BreadOfLife]

-
Reader,

Religion is always a barrier between God and man.
Why?
Its because Religion teaches that there are many Paths to God, and Jesus said that there is only ONE< and He is ""the only WAY.""

John 14:6

Religion is man made........Its always man trying to reach God, or become like God based on Man's VAIN concepts regarding how He is to cause it.....and by self effort try to achieve it.

Christianity is not a Religion.
Christianity is God coming to this earth to offer Himself wrapped in human flesh, as the eternal sacrifice for SIN.
And who needs this Sacrifice ? = Everyone, as "All have sinned". "there is none righteous, no not one".

That’s NOT what the Bible says . . .

James 1:27
Religion that is pure and undefiled before God the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.

Sounds like Christianity to me.
I suggest you study your Bible . . .

 

[David Lamb]

That’s NOT what the Bible says . . .

James 1:27
Religion that is pure and undefiled before God the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.

Sounds like Christianity to me.
I suggest you study your Bible . . .

Yes, religion in the bible refers to the outward manifestation of faith. Christianity is never called a religion in the bible, though being a Christian should produce the sort of religion that James 1:27 talks about.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Yes, religion in the bible refers to the outward manifestation of faith. Christianity is never called a religion in the bible, though being a Christian should produce the sort of religion that James 1:27 talks about.

True.

But, neither is God ever called a “Trinity” - yet He IS.

 

[David Lamb]

True.

But, neither is God ever called a “Trinity” - yet He IS.

The difference is that the word "Trinity" is not found in the bible, though the doctrine represented by that word is. The word "religion" is found in the bible, referring to the outward results of faith - the "good works" that follow being saved.