Is it your view that God's judgment is unbridled fury?
Mercy is always a choice in judgment.
What is God really about? Fury or mercy?
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Apokatastasis in the Bible
- Thread starter St. SteVen
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Mercy is always a choice in judgment.
What is God really about? Fury or mercy?
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Behold
Well-Known Member
A Believers return to ""original condition"" is entered into on this Earth, when a person Trusts in Christ......is forgiven all sin, and is born again as a "new Creaation" in Christ.
Your False Satanic Gospel of "universalism" teaches that a sinner does not have to be forgiven on earth and born again.. @St. SteVen
Apocatastasis
In theology, apocatastasis is the restoration of creation to a condition of perfection. (original condition)
In Christianity, it is a form of Christian universalism that includes the ultimate salvation of everyone.
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Apokatastasis was a major part of Christian theology in the early church.
The main Patristic supporters of the apokatastasis theory, such as Bardaisan, Clement, Origin,
Didymus, St. Anthony, St. Pamphilus Martyr, Methodius, St. Macrina, St. Gregory of Nyssa (and probably the
two other Cappadocians), St. Evagrius Ponticus, Diodore of Tarsus, Theodore of Mopsuestia, St. John of Jerusalem,
Rufinus, St. Jerome and St. Augustine (at least initially) … Cassian, St. Issac of Nineveh, St. John of Dalyatha,
Ps. Dionysius the Areopagite, probably St. Maximus the Confessor, up to John the Scot Eriugena,
and many others, grounded their Christian doctrine of apokatastasis first of all in the Bible.
— Ramelli, Christian Doctrine, 11.
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In theology, apocatastasis is the restoration of creation to a condition of perfection. (original condition)
In Christianity, it is a form of Christian universalism that includes the ultimate salvation of everyone.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Apokatastasis was a major part of Christian theology in the early church.
The main Patristic supporters of the apokatastasis theory, such as Bardaisan, Clement, Origin,
Didymus, St. Anthony, St. Pamphilus Martyr, Methodius, St. Macrina, St. Gregory of Nyssa (and probably the
two other Cappadocians), St. Evagrius Ponticus, Diodore of Tarsus, Theodore of Mopsuestia, St. John of Jerusalem,
Rufinus, St. Jerome and St. Augustine (at least initially) … Cassian, St. Issac of Nineveh, St. John of Dalyatha,
Ps. Dionysius the Areopagite, probably St. Maximus the Confessor, up to John the Scot Eriugena,
and many others, grounded their Christian doctrine of apokatastasis first of all in the Bible.
— Ramelli, Christian Doctrine, 11.
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Unbridled fury? Where do you get this stuff?
"Will God just totally pop His cork when He gets these people in front of him?"
I can only conclude you think God speaks to hear His own voice, not because we should heed His warnings.
Matthew 25:41 KJV
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Matthew 25:46 KJV
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Revelation 20:10 KJV
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Revelation 20:15 KJV
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
No, you are stretching it to fit your doctrine. Misappropriation.
Will Satan be restored?
Revelation 20:10 KJV
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
From Robertson's Word Pictures:
Acts 3:21
Restoration (apokatastaseōs). Double compound (apo, kata, histēmi), here only in the N.T., though common in late writers. In papyri and inscriptions for repairs to temples and this phrase occurs in Jewish apocalyptic writings, something like the new heaven and the new earth of Rev_21:1. Paul has a mystical allusion also to the agony of nature in Rom_8:20-22. The verb apokathistēmi is used by Jesus of the spiritual and moral restoration wrought by the Baptist as Elijah (Mat_17:11; Mar_9:12) and by the disciples to Jesus in Act_1:6. Josephus uses the word of the return from captivity and Philo of the restitution of inheritances in the year of jubilee. As a technical medical term it means complete restoration to health. See a like idea in palingenesia (renewal, new birth) in Mat_19:28; Tit_3:5. This universalism of Peter will be clearer to him after Joppa and Caesarea.
Adam Clarke:
The times of restitution of all things - The word αποκαταστασις, from απο which signifies from, and καθιστανειν, to establish or settle any thing, viz. in a good state; and, when απο is added to it, then this preposition implies that this good state, in which it is settled, was preceded by a bad one, from which the change is made to a good one. So in Act_1:6, when the disciples said to Christ, Wilt thou at this time restore again (αποκαθιστανεις) the kingdom to Israel? they meant, as the Greek word implies, Wilt thou take the kingdom from the Romans, and give it back to the Jews? Now, as the word is here connected with, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets, it must mean the accomplishment of all the prophecies and promises contained in the Old Testament relative to the kingdom of Christ upon earth; the whole reign of grace, from the ascension of our Lord till his coming again, for of all these things have the holy prophets spoken; and, as the grace of the Gospel was intended to destroy the reign of sin, its energetic influence is represented as restoring all things, destroying the bad state, and establishing the good - taking the kingdom out of the hands of sin and Satan, and putting it into those of righteousness and truth. This is done in every believing soul; all things are restored to their primitive order; and the peace of God, which passes all understanding, keeps the heart and mind in the knowledge and love of God. The man loves God with all his heart, soul, mind, and strength, and his neighbor as himself; and thus all the things of which the holy prophets have spoken since the world began, relative to the salvation of any soul, are accomplished in this case; and when such a work becomes universal, as the Scriptures seem to intimate that it will, then all things will be restored in the fullest sense of the term. As therefore the subject here referred to is that of which all the prophets from the beginning have spoken, (and the grand subject of all their declarations was Christ and his work among men), therefore the words are to be applied to this, and no other meaning. Jesus Christ comes to raise up man from a state of ruin, and restore to him the image of God, as he possessed it at the beginning.
Bullinger:
restitution. Greek. apokatastasis = re-establishment from a state of ruin. Only here.
Scofield:
restitution
(Greek - ναός = restoration, occurring here and Act_1:6 only. The meaning is limited by the words: "Which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets." The prophets speak of the restoration of Israel to the land (see "Israel,"; Gen_12:2; Gen_12:3; Rom_11:26 also "Palestinian Covenant," Deu_30:1-9. (See Scofield on Deu_30:3) and of the restoration the theocracy under David’s Son. (See "Davidic Covenant," 2Sa_7:8-17).
(See Scofield on 2Sa_7:16), "Kingdom," Gen_1:26-28. (See Scofield on Zec_12:8). No prediction of the conversion and restoration of the wicked dead is found in the prophets, or elsewhere. CF Rev_20:11-15.
Barnes:
The times of the restitution of all things - The noun rendered restitution ἀποκαταστάσεως apokatastaseōs, does not elsewhere occur in the New Testament. The verb from which it is derived occurs eight times. It means properly “to restore a thing to its former situation,” as restoring a “strained” or “dislocated” limb to its former soundness. Hence, it is used to restore, or to heal, in the New Testament: Mat_12:13, “And it (the hand) was restored whole as the other”; Mar_3:5; Luk_6:10. And hence, it is applied to the preparation or fitness for the coming of the Messiah which was to attend the preaching of John in the character of Elias, Mat_17:11; Mar_9:12. Thus, in Josephus (Antiq., Mar_2:3, Mar_2:8), the word is used to denote the return of the Jews from the captivity of Babylon, and their restoration to their former state and privileges. The word has also the idea of “consummation, completion, or filling up.” Thus, it is used in Philo, Hesychius, Phavorinus, and by the Greek Classics. (See Lightfoot and Kuinoel.) Thus, it is used here by the Syriac: “Until the complement or filling up of the times”; that is, of all the events foretold by the prophets, etc. Thus, the Arabic: “Until the times which shall establish the perfection or completion of all the predictions of the prophets,” etc. In this sense the passage means that the heavens must receive the Lord Jesus until all thrums spoken by the prophets in relation to his work, his reign, the spread of the gospel, the triumph of religion, etc., shall have been fulfilled. It also conveys the idea of the predicted recovery of the world from sin, and the restoration of peace and order; the con. summation of the work of the Messiah, now begun, but not yet complete; slow it may be in its advances, but triumphant and certain in its progress and its close.
All things - All things which have been foretold by the prophets. The expression is limited by the connection to this; and of course it does not mean that all people will be saved, or that all the evils of sin can be repaired or remedied. This can never be, for the mischief is done and cannot be undone; but everything which the prophets have foretold shall receive their completion and fulfillment.
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And so on.
Context.
Acts 3:19-22 KJV
19) Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
20) And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21) Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
22) For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
Acts 1:6-7 KJV
6) When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7) And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
Much love!
That saw cuts both ways.
Are you a Damnationist or an Annihilationist?
Those two views are contradictory as well.
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Simply stated you are not interpretting according to context. Deflect if you like . . .
Still deflecting. Nevermind! No surprises here! I guess you already realize the stretch you are making and realize the futility of trying to defend it.
That's not true.
Acts 3:21 NIV
Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything,
as he promised long ago through his holy prophets.
1 Timothy 2:5-6 NIV
For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,
6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.
1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
Romans 11:32, 36
32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
36 For from him and through him and for him are all things.
To him be the glory forever! Amen.
Titus 2:11 ESV
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,
John 1:29 NIV
... The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said,
“Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!
1 Timothy 4:10 NIV
That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God,
who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.
1 John 4:14 NIV
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.
1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
Romans 5:15-16
But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man,
how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!
16 Nor can the gift of God be compared with the result of one man’s sin:
The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.
Romans 5:18-19 NIV
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
Colossians 1:19-20
For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
1 Timothy 2:1-6
I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.
Romans 3:24 NIV
and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.
Romans 9:16 NIV
It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.
James 2:13 NIV
... Mercy triumphs over judgment.
Matthew 18:11 NKJV
For the Son of Man has come to save that which was lost.
Luke 19:10 NIV
For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”
Ecclesiastes 12:14 NIV
For God will bring every deed into judgment,
including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil.
1 John 4:18 NIV
There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear,
because fear has to do with punishment.
The one who fears is not made perfect in love.
Mark 9:49 NIV
Everyone will be salted with fire.
Malachi 3:2 NIV
But who can endure the day of his coming? Who can stand when he appears?
For he will be like a refiner’s fire or a launderer’s soap.
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Should we believe you or Jesus?
Mt 7 Narrow is the way to Life and FEW there be who find it!
Few? Only 8 humans were saved from the Flood. Only 3 were saved from Sodom. Pay attention stevie.
Why were the majority who sought life unable to find it?
Is God making sport with our souls?
Are you sure that you found it? Doesn't appear so.
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God gave you the choice to Believe the Bible, His Word. You rejected it! Stop blaming God for YOUR choice!
What doesn't appear to you is most likely Bible truth.
NIV is your first problem. I looks from your list that you are shopping translations.
Acts 3:19-23 KJV
19) Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
20) And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21) Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
22) For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23) And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
The restoration of all things is limited by the context, as we've seen previously. Those things that God spoke through the prophets.
So you are ignoring the context.
1 Timothy 2:1-7 KJV
1) I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
2) For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
3) For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4) Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5) For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6) Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
7) Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not;) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.
Jesus gave Himself a ransom for all, but as you must already know, Scripture also tells us that the reconciliation must be received, and not everyone does.
There is no statement of universalism here, that all men will be saved, which would make Paul to contradict himself, as though he never wrote of those who will be condemned.
For instance,
2 Thessalonians 2:8-12 KJV
8) And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9) Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10) And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11) And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12) That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Romans 11:30-36 KJV
30) For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31) Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32) For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
33) O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
34) For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
35) Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
36) For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
"that He might", not "that He shall", or something more like that. "Might have" is an expression of potential or possibility, and here again, you choose to interpret as some iron clad contradiction to Paul's and Jesus' and Peter's and Jude's and the others' writings.
Statements that can be interpreted in a few different ways, and you choose the one that supports your view but contradicts other Scriptures.
I'm guessing everything on your list there will turn out the same.
I may come back to this depending on how my day goes.
No, the Bible most assuredly does not teach that all men will be saved.
You are limiting that to life on earth in this physical body.
That's where we disagree.
Romans 2:14-16 NIV
(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law,
do by nature things required by the law,
they are a law for themselves,
even though they do not have the law.
15 They show that the requirements
of the law are written on their hearts,
their consciences also bearing witness,
and their thoughts sometimes accusing them
and at other times even defending them.)
16 This will take place on the day when
God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ,
as my gospel declares.
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