Jesus is the Son of his God

[JLB]

How do you explain this to a Muslim or a Jew?

Jesus is God the Son.


God who became flesh.


And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
1 Timothy 3:16

 

[ProverbsInPink]

What would I be considered? I believe the Word (Who was with God in the beginning) and who was God was made flesh (and so made a man) as a man made (or "born" if you must) of a woman made under the law (Who would prophetically spring out of Judah) and to whom were given words for us by God (His Father) .

The Word having been made flesh is now the man Jesus (Who God/ The LORD, His Father has made both Lord and Christ). Having been made a man did live by God (His Father's) power, and by Whom Jesus (the Word made flesh) did his works. Who spoke as the Father taught him, and by commandment and did nothing of himself (being emptied of his former power), living by His Father's.

That the Word (who was made a man) was not alone, but the Father was with Him.

In otherwords, the Word (which WAS God) made flesh (a man) but was still with God (The Most high, even the Father himself) while in this world, but the Word (alone) was made flesh, while it pleased the Father the His fulness did indwell him.

Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell

Luke 3:32 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said,
Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

2 Cr 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them;
and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

John 8:29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

Acts 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

John 3:2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God:
for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

John 10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

John 10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

John 10:38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

John 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

John 15:24 If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.

Again,

Many good works have I shewed you from my Father

2 Cr 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ

This is also how I understand Thomas here as well

John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Acts 10:38... for God was with him.

That is how I see it, I hate using my own words for a thing, but thats the jist, I think I stayed close to how it is worded in scripture.

Exactly. Emmanuel was God with us,dwelling among us, having been formed in the womb of Mary by His own will, to enter this world in the flesh and dwell among us.

The idea that Jesus was the Son of His God is in my view, blasphemy. Because it is a distinct Biblically indefensible proclamation that pronounced Jesus as a mere mortal man and Jew. Which contradicts His divine identity as prophesied in the Old Testament and that then was affirmed to have been fulfilled with his arrival in the New Testament.

 

[Matthias]

Jesus is God the Son.

The Jesus who is a Jewish monotheist is the Son of his God.

Your description is the classical post-biblical formulation. It’s incompatible with Jewish monotheism, as I’m sure you’re aware.

God who became flesh.

The logos of the Messiah’s God is what became flesh in Jewish monotheism.

I directed another member to the prologue of John’s Gospel, as rendered in the Geneva Bible. He wasn’t interested.

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
1 Timothy 3:16

The trinitarian commentary in the NET explains why the translators used “He who” rather than “God who”. Paul is speaking about the Son of God, the Messiah, Jesus of Nazareth.

I can agree with you that Jesus is God, but I won’t be able to go beyond the constraints of Jewish monotheism.

 

[ProverbsInPink]

We might consider this topic is something to be avoided. Because Matthias, the name of the Apostle that replaced Judas,claiming to be a primitive Christian ,also known as Restorationist, and a Jewish Monotheist, are actually labels and identities that are incompatible.




Source:Google Search
There is more at the link. This is a brief excerpt.

The idea of "restorationism"—as practiced by some Christian groups—is incompatible with Jewish monotheism

This is because restorationist Christian theology fundamentally redefines core tenets of Judaism, such as the nature of God and the role of the Messiah, which traditional Jewish thought considers irreconcilable with its strict monotheistic belief.

Core points of incompatibility

Area of Belief	Traditional Jewish Monotheism	Restorationist Christianity (e.g., Messianic Judaism)
Nature of God	Judaism emphasizes the absolute and indivisible unity of God (the Shema). The concept of a triune God (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) is considered a denial of pure monotheism and is regarded as idolatrous.	Many restorationist groups, including most Messianic Jewish congregations, accept the Christian doctrine of the Trinity. Some interpret the Shema as a "differentiated but singular deity," a concept rejected by traditional Judaism.
Identity of the Messiah	The Jewish Messiah (Mashiach) is a human political and spiritual leader from the lineage of King David, who will usher in an age of peace and justice. He is not divine, nor is he a part of God. The Messiah's coming will be marked by specific world-altering events, none of which occurred during Jesus's lifetime.	Restorationist Christian groups like Messianic Judaism identify Jesus (Yeshua) as the Messiah. They believe he is a divine being—either God the Son or a manifestation of God himself—and that he came to redeem humanity from spiritual sin.
Role of the Torah	The Torah is seen as God's eternal covenant with the Jewish people, intended to be observed perpetually. Its laws are not superseded or abolished.	While Messianic Judaism often observes aspects of the Torah and Jewish holidays, it adheres to the Christian New Testament's interpretation that Jesus's life reinterprets or fulfills the Torah. Traditional Jews view this approach as distorting the meaning of the Torah to serve a Christian agenda.
Definition of Restoration	In Judaism, "restoration" centers on the redemption of the Jewish people and the world by the as-yet-unrevealed Messiah. This includes the physical return of the Jewish people to Israel and the rebuilding of the Temple.	In Christian restorationism, the "restoration" of true Christianity often means stripping away later traditions to replicate the early apostolic church, sometimes incorporating selected Jewish elements. For Messianic Judaism, it specifically means acknowledging Jesus as the Messiah while maintaining some Jewish cultural and ritual practices.

 

[Muna]

Exactly. Emmanuel was God with us,dwelling among us, having been formed in the womb of Mary by His own will, to enter this world in the flesh and dwell among us.

The idea that Jesus was the Son of His God is in my view, blasphemy. Because it is a distinct Biblically indefensible proclamation that pronounced Jesus as a mere mortal man and Jew. Which contradicts His divine identity as prophesied in the Old Testament and that then was affirmed to have been fulfilled with his arrival in the New Testament.

If I am understanding you correctly, I cant agree with that ProverbsInPink, because Jesus called God both his Father, and He is the Son of God (His Father). Since that seems obvious to me (and I would assume you) I think I might be misunderstanding you.

The head of Christ is God, Jesus said, the Father is greater then I (but in the respect, that He who sends is greater then he that is sent)

John 20
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them,
I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

And Jesus (the Word made flesh) who "was God" but was also "with God" returned to God
of whom it now says,

1 Ti 2
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus

Who had days in his flesh, who died, and was raised, and shows us

Luke 24
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see;
for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have

And when finally ascends, as prophesied through David, the apostles says

Acts 2
34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself,
The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

So he is made Lord here, as "the LORD said unto MY Lord" sit thou... and we are told

Acts 2
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly,
that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

1 Cr 12
3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed:
and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Mark 12
36 For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
till I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Phil 2
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

And again.

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified,
both Lord and Christ.

And since that is so (as far as what God has done for us through his Son) we acknowledge both the Father and Son

1 Cr 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him;
and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

There are quite a few more, but my red flag always goes up when the denial of the testimony of "the Son of" God (even the Father)
starts taking a back seat, seeing all that God has made Jesus (even Lord and Christ) is sort of steam rolled over versus showcased more. Because even Jesus himself says, the ability to confess him as Lord and Christ (whom God made him) is also given to us from His Father. And without the Son, there is no Father. You can't blow past the Son of God, to God (even the Father) thats how I regard that. I could have put that better, but I hope you get the jist, and I think I could be misunderstanding you also. I think its hard to communicate on boards, I am not really good at it myself, sorry in advance.

Edit: typo

 

[ProverbsInPink]

If I am understanding you correctly, I cant agree with that ProverbsInPink, because Jesus called God both his Father, and He is the Son of God (His Father). Since that seems obvious to me (and I would assume you) I think I might be misunderstanding you.

The head of Christ is God, Jesus said, the Father is greater then I (but in the respect, that He who sends is greater then he that is sent)

John 20
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them,
I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

And Jesus (the Word made flesh) who "was God" but was also "with God" returned to God
of whom it now says,

1 Ti 2
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus

Who had days in his flesh, who died, and was raised, and shows us

Luke 24
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see;
for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have

And when finally ascends, as prophesied through David, the apostles says

Acts 2
34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself,
The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

So he is made Lord here, as "the LORD said unto MY Lord" sit thou... and we are told

Acts 2
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly,
that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

1 Cr 12
3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed:
and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Mark 12
36 For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
till I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Phil 2
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

And again.

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified,
both Lord and Christ.

And since that is so (as far as what God has done for us through his Son) we acknowledge both the Father and Son

1 Cr 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him;
and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

There are quite a few more, but my red flag always goes up when the denial of the testimony of "the Son of" God (even the Father)
starts taking a back seat, seeing all that God has made Jesus (even Lord and Christ) is sort of steam rolled over versus showcased more. Because even Jesus himself says, the ability to confess him as Lord and Christ (whom God made him) is also given to us from His Father. And without the Son, there is no Father. You can't blow past to the Son of God, to God (even the Father) thats how I regard that. I could have put that better, but I hope you get the jist, and I think I could be misunderstanding you also. I think its hard to communicate on boards, I am not really good at it myself, sorry in advance.

No worries,I think you did a fine job presenting your point of view.

I agree it can be difficult in making a cogent point on a forum.

I'll make my pov short and hope I'm also understood.

I believe what I'm told of Jesus in both the Old and New Testament.

Jesus gave many talks wherein he tells us he is God incarnate.
Besides the obvious proof as a declaration of this by Jesus himself in numerous passages.
"When you have seen me you have seen the Father " , "I and the Father are one."

And of course the text of John 1.

Bible Project: Book of John 1 - New International Version

The Word Became FleshIn the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning.

bibleproject.com

And then there's Matthew 1. Emmanuel,God with us.

Which I believe if we take the text regarding the word made flesh In John
1 and Matthew 1 , both confirm God was
Emmanuel,Jesus.
The translation of Emmanuel,God with us, is absolute confirmation for me.

And lest we overlook Isaiah 43.
11. I, I am the Lord, and besides me there is no savior.

Isaiah 7:14
Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Matthew 1:23
“Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel” (which means, God with us).

 

[JLB]

The Jesus who is a Jewish monotheist is the Son of his God.

Your description is the classical post-biblical formulation. It’s incompatible with Jewish monotheism, as I’m sure you’re aware.

Are you referring to the Jews who murdered Christ?

According to those Jews?


Here is what the scriptures teach us.


And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
1 Timothy 3:16


Do you understand that Elohim is a plural word?



Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian. And he led the flock to the back of the desert, and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. And the Angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed. Then Moses said, “I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn.”
So when the LORD saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!”
And he said, “Here I am.”
Then He said, “Do not draw near this place. Take your sandals off your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground.” Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God.
Exodus 3:1-6



Moses says the Angel of the LORD is God.


Was Moses looking at the Father of the Son?

 

[Matthias]

Are you referring to the Jews who murdered Christ?

According to those Jews?

No.

Here is what the scriptures teach us.


And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
1 Timothy 3:16


Do you understand that Elohim is a plural word?

I’ve written so much about the Hebrew word elohim on this forum that I would have to rank it near the top of the subjects I’ve addressed.

Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian. And he led the flock to the back of the desert, and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. And the Angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed. Then Moses said, “I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn.”
So when the LORD saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!”
And he said, “Here I am.”
Then He said, “Do not draw near this place. Take your sandals off your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground.” Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God.
Exodus 3:1



Moses says the Angel of the LORD is God.


Was Moses looking at the Father of the Son?

Neither one. Please see my posts on the Jewish law of agency.

While I’ve got your attention, do you agree with the “Christian” members who are teaching us that Jesus wasn’t a Jew?

 

[JLB]

I’ve written so much about the Hebrew word elohim on this forum that I would have to rank it near the top of the subjects I’ve addressed.

‘Great.

How about answering my question.

 

[JLB]

Neither one. Please see my posts on the Jewish law of agency.

Bro,

I don’t to see your posts, I have God’s word.


Here is what Moses said.

Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian. And he led the flock to the back of the desert, and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. And the Angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed. Then Moses said, “I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn.”
So when the LORD saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!”
And he said, “Here I am.”
Then He said, “Do not draw near this place. Take your sandals off your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground.” Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God.
Exodus 3:1-6


Moses was looking at the Angel of the LORD.

Moses was looking at God.


Was Moses looking at the Father or the Son?

 

[Matthias]

‘Great.

How about answering my question.

The answer is simple. The Hebrew word elohim is always plural in form but may be either singular or plural in meaning depending on the context. When the subject is the God of Israel, the word is always singular in meaning.

 

[Matthias]

Bro,

I don’t to see your posts, I have God’s word.

If you don’t [want?] to see my posts then what are we even doing here?

Here is what Moses said.

Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian. And he led the flock to the back of the desert, and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. And the Angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed. Then Moses said, “I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn.”
So when the LORD saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!”
And he said, “Here I am.”
Then He said, “Do not draw near this place. Take your sandals off your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground.” Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God.
Exodus 3:1-6


Moses was looking at the Angel of the LORD.

Moses was looking at God.


Was Moses looking at the Father or the Son?

I’ve already answered your question.

 

[Matthias]

While I’ve got your attention, do you agree with the “Christian” members who are teaching us that Jesus wasn’t a Jew?

Why didn’t you answer my question @JLB? It’s easy and straightforward: Do you agree with the “Christian” members who are teaching us that Jesus wasn’t a Jew?

Phrased another way, Do you believe Jesus was a Jew?

 

[Muna]

No worries,I think you did a fine job presenting your point of view.

I agree it can be difficult in making a cogent point on a forum.

I'll make my pov short and hope I'm also understood.

I believe what I'm told of Jesus in both the Old and New Testament.

Jesus gave many talks wherein he tells us he is God incarnate.
Besides the obvious proof as a declaration of this by Jesus himself in numerous passages.
"When you have seen me you have seen the Father " , "I and the Father are one."

He is the Word that was also WITH God, we know the Word was made flesh, and is the express image (inward) of his person

Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high


So when Jesus says, "I and the Father are one", what does that mean to you, because also Jesus also prayed for them they too would be one even as he and the Father are one.

So when he says I and the Father are one, he says here

John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one

And of course the text of John 1.

Bible Project: Book of John 1 - New International Version

The Word Became FleshIn the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning.

bibleproject.com

Sorry here on this one, I cant click on the links (I have this thing with those) especially more lately since Windows 10 is not security updates (my canary in the coal mine over here) on my sparce little set up over I got going on

And then there's Matthew 1. Emmanuel,God with us.

Which I believe if we take the text regarding the word made flesh In John
1 and Matthew 1 , both confirm God was
Emmanuel,Jesus.
The translation of Emmanuel, God with us, is absolute confirmation for me.

I am glad you posted this, because Jesus tell us that he came in his Fathers name, and God with us in Jesus Christ is also shown to us

Acts 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

For example here, his name would be called Emmanuel (God with us) even while God was with Jesus, and the name given the Word made flesh was Jesus of the Angel, but he says here

John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive

If he did not come in his own name, what are your thoughts on this?

And lest we overlook Isaiah 43.
11. I, I am the Lord, and besides me there is no savior.

Isaiah 7:14
Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Matthew 1:23
“Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel” (which means, God with us).

I know that is often used to pit one thing against the other but it does still says the same thing here in respects to saviours

2 Kings 13:15 And the LORD gave Israel a saviour, so that they went out from under the hand of the Syrians: and the children of Israel dwelt in their tents, as beforetime.

Neh 9:27 Therefore thou deliveredst them into the hand of their enemies, who vexed them: and in the time of their trouble, when they cried unto thee, thou heardest them from heaven; and according to thy manifold mercies thou gavest them saviours, who saved them out of the hand of their enemies.

I personally love to recconcile these, I do not believe I have fully recconciled the name (for example) so its not something I would sek to debate until I get a better grasp on how present that without having to pit the thing and contradict it.

I need to wait a bit longer on that, and when I can put it out there having a better understanding would be far fruitful.

Edit: meant "click" not clink

 

[JLB]

When the subject is the God of Israel, the word is always singular in meaning.

Blatantly False.

That’s a myth. A Jewish fable.

Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” Genesis 1:26


You don’t believe Moses, and therefore you don’t believe Jesus.


Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by. John 8:58-59

Why did the Jews pick up stones to stone Jesus when He said, before Abraham was, I AM?

 

[JLB]

Do you agree with the “Christian” members who are teaching us that Jesus wasn’t a Jew?

Jesus was a Jew.


People believe many things.


I can’t imagine a Christian not believing Jews was a Jew.


Even though he was born of a virgin, according to Isaiah…


Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel. Isaiah 7:14

 

[Matthias]

Blatantly False.

That’s a myth. A Jewish fable.

You can confirm what I said is the truth by looking it up in a standard Hebrew language Lexicon.

We can also do this: Pick out any verse of your choosing in the Hebrew Bible where you think the Hebrew word elohim, when applied to the God of Israel, is rendered plural in English. I’ll prove to you that the Hebrew Lexicon is right.

Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” Genesis 1:26


You don’t believe Moses, and therefore you don’t believe Jesus.


Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by. John 8:58-59

Why did the Jews pick up stones to stone Jesus when He said, before Abraham was, I AM?

 

[Matthias]

Jesus was a Jew.

Thank you. I agree. Now maybe they‘ll listen to you and change their minds. For their sakes, I hope so.

People believe many things.


I can’t imagine a Christian not believing Jews was a Jew.

They’re teaching that he wasn’t in this very thread. See for yourself.

Even though he was born of a virgin, according to Isaiah…


Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel. Isaiah 7:14

 

[ProverbsInPink]

He is the Word that was also WITH God, we know the Word was made flesh, and is the express image (inward) of his person

Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high


So when Jesus says, "I and the Father are one", what does that mean to you, because also Jesus also prayed for them they too would be one even as he and the Father are one.

So when he says I and the Father are one, he says here

John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one



Sorry here on this one, I cant clink on the links (I have this thing with those) especially more lately since Windows 10 is not security updates (my canary in the coal mine over here) on my sparce little set up over I got going on/



I am glad you posted this, because Jesus tell us that he came in his Fathers name, and God with us in Jesus Christ is also shown to us

Acts 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

For example here, his name would be called Emmanuel (God with us) even while God was with Jesus, and the name given the Word made flesh was Jesus of the Angel, but he says here

John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive

If he did not come in his own name, what are your thoughts on this?



I know that is often used to pit one thing against the other but it does still says the same thing here in respects to saviours

2 Kings 13:15 And the LORD gave Israel a saviour, so that they went out from under the hand of the Syrians: and the children of Israel dwelt in their tents, as beforetime.

Neh 9:27 Therefore thou deliveredst them into the hand of their enemies, who vexed them: and in the time of their trouble, when they cried unto thee, thou heardest them from heaven; and according to thy manifold mercies thou gavest them saviours, who saved them out of the hand of their enemies.

I personally love to recconcile these, I do not believe I have fully recconciled the name (for example) so its not something I would sek to debate until I get a better grasp on how present that without having to pit the thing and contradict it.

I need to wait a bit longer on that, and when I can put it out there having a better understanding would be far fruitful.

I think when we are told the word was in the beginning it is saying God was before anything that is created by and through him.
When the passage says the word was with God and the word was God, we are being told God is as He said. The Alpha and the Omega.The beginning and the end.

When we learn Jesus was the word made flesh and He was with Jim in the beginning it is simply reiterating Jesus was God.
Jesus being with God in the beginning then makes sense as God who would become Jesus was in the beginning. And would later become God in flesh.

Jesus coming in God's name is referring to the name,Emmanuel. That name is God with us.

When Jesus preached to the masses he spoke in third person because to his listeners he was a man preaching God's words.
The people would relate to yet another Rabbi giving God's instruction.

Whereas had Jesus preached in first person it would have been construed as blasphemy.
When Jesus said he prayed to his God and their God again,they were in understanding of a Rabbi relating to them as an equal and all the while instructing them as God.

John 17:21 is Jesus reiterating His divinity.

John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one.

Is Jesus again identifying as God incarnate.God made himself,created himself, to be flesh. He was the word on earth.


In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.


By the word of the Lord the heavens were made, and by the breath of his mouth all their host.

For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.

 

[ProverbsInPink]

Thank you. I agree. Now maybe they‘ll listen to you and change their minds. For their sakes, I hope so.

I'm in the grace of God for eternity. That eternal irrevocable Salvific gift is not contingent on agreeing Jesus was a Jew.

They’re teaching that he wasn’t in this very thread. See for yourself.

You're free to use my name.

I used yours in my posts.

Thinking Jesus was a Jew is labeling Jesus as a mortal with human lineage. Because the identity of lineage as a Jew,or being Jewish, is passed through the mother.
The Messiah was promised to come through the line of David. His mothers ancestor.
Jesus fulfilled all prophecy in Hebrew scripture so to be received as the promised Messiah.

He did this as God who is bringing Salvation as promised.

God was born into a Jewish culture. God is not a Jew. His birth was to fulfill Jewish prophecies. Because Salvation is of the Jews. "Is of" is key there.

That you think Jesus was a Jewish Monotheist is denying the divinity of Jesus.