Theological Examination of the Rapture in Relation to the Great Tribulation

[Rockerduck]

Readers. I have been around 70 years on this earth, by the Grace of God. This is the worst time in my life on this earth where hatred abounds in societies around the world. Mass shootings that never happened in my lifetime, just to kill as many as they can. Starvation in every country. Notice the outcry in the USA as millions are on food stamps about to run out, it is the same in other countries. Addictions to cell phones, pornography, and drugs, Child trafficking, legalized prostitution and pot. Homelessness, and the list keeps going. If we are not in a tribulation now, I don't know what to call it. I look at the obvious, it is here and now and not going away. Maranatha

 

[Fred J]

Exactly the one who rejected jesus knew who he is and at one point stopped following him, true believers would not do so.

Yes, as the scripture refers to them as 'backsliders'.

But it has nothing to do with, one will be taken while the other left behind, in the field or dwelling.

A supporting fact to this is the parable about the 'Ten Virgins', 5 taken and 5 left behind.

Apparently those who've tasted Christ and go away from faith, it's better they did not know Christ at all.

Meaning, it's worst for them than an unsaved person, and that's why we are to persuade them back seriously.

They're no longer considered as virgins anymore since they've become like a prodigal child went out on their own.

This is the point am given to make, so that'll be sound doctrine, and i'll back off, thank you.

Shalom in the name of Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[LoveYeshua]

Readers. I have been around 70 years on this earth, by the Grace of God. This is the worst time in my life on this earth where hatred abounds in societies around the world. Mass shootings that never happened in my lifetime, just to kill as many as they can. Starvation in every country. Notice the outcry in the USA as millions are on food stamps about to run out, it is the same in other countries. Addictions to cell phones, pornography, and drugs, Child trafficking, legalized prostitution and pot. Homelessness, and the list keeps going. If we are not in a tribulation now, I don't know what to call it. I look at the obvious, it is here and now and not going away. Maranatha

I agree, it has started Jeremiah called it Jacob's trouble, it is worth reading these passages of the prophets about the end times. persecution of Christians are also increasing. I am preparing a new thread to unpack what some prophets were saying about the end times. they also explain in some details what will happen when jesus returns.

Blessings

 

[Taken]

If you were led by The Spirit of God

I have already Made my declaration, I am “IN Christ.”

Your gaslighting and false Claims FOR ME, are MOOT.

you would agree with what Lord Jesus said for when His future coming to gather His saints will be,

You Have NOT ONCE quoted me Saying ANYTHING whatsoever AGAINST a future “gathering”!

which is AFTER... the tribulation,

Obviously…
UNKNOWN TO YOU…REJECTED BY YOU
*****NEWSFLASH*****
IS: THERE ARE MULTIPLE GATHERINGS…
FOR: SPECIFIC INDIVIDUALS
AT: SPECIFIC TIMES!!

Absolutely there ARE Gatherings…
BEFORE
DURING
AFTER
the THE TRIBULATIONS and WRATH SENT DOWN FROM HEAVEN!

not prior to it like the false pre-trib rapture theory from men that you instead... put your faith in. But you are not led by The Holy Spirit. You are led by men on a leash.

You insisting on putting your Own ignorance on display, is a reflection ON YOU.

You Attempting to Falsely Apply your Ignorance Toward me, IS Atypical of a False Accuser.

Go spend your Time LEARNING…
About the GATHERINGS…
Of WHO, WHEN, WHY, they ARE Gathered…
instead of making a poor showing of a man Who claims to BE IN Christ …WHILE …revealing your ignorance, gaslighting and falsely accusing.

Glorify Christ who you ARE SUPPOSED to be representing … with the Whole Truth!

 

[Taken]

Yes, as the scripture refers to them as 'backsliders'.

But it has nothing to do with, one will be taken while the other left behind, in the field or dwelling.

A supporting fact to this is the parable about the 'Ten Virgins', 5 taken and 5 left behind.

Apparently those who've tasted Christ and go away from faith, it's better they did not know Christ at all.

Meaning, it's worst for them than an unsaved person, and that's why we are to persuade them back seriously.

They're no longer considered as virgins anymore since they've become like a prodigal child went out on their own.

This is the point am given to make, so that'll be sound doctrine, and i'll back off, thank you.

Shalom in the name of Lord Jesus Christ.

Yes.

The crux…hangs ON…
WHO “PREPARES”
WHO “Doesn’t PREPARE”

A BRIDE (to be) “Prepares”.
A GROOM (to be) “Prepares”

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Rockerduck]

I agree, it has started Jeremiah called it Jacob's trouble, it is worth reading these passages of the prophets about the end times. persecution of Christians are also increasing. I am preparing a new thread to unpack what some prophets were saying about the end times. they also explain in some details what will happen when jesus returns.

Blessings

Halleluiah, I can't wait. I used to write about the troubles in the world. I can't keep count now. The Lord has also revealed much to me.

 

[Taken]

Readers. I have been around 70 years on this earth, by the Grace of God. This is the worst time in my life on this earth where hatred abounds in societies around the world. Mass shootings that never happened in my lifetime, just to kill as many as they can. Starvation in every country. Notice the outcry in the USA as millions are on food stamps about to run out, it is the same in other countries. Addictions to cell phones, pornography, and drugs, Child trafficking, legalized prostitution and pot. Homelessness, and the list keeps going. If we are not in a tribulation now, I don't know what to call it. I look at the obvious, it is here and now and not going away. Maranatha

You are describing MODERN PRESENT DAY … WOES …

Woes have come upon the people at Large for Decades, for Centuries.

Cheating, Lying, Theft, Corruption, Wars, Famines, Killing, Murders, Homosexuality, Anti-God, Shame…Nothing New

The Shocking Newness IS the Loud, in your Face, Shameless, Celebratory PRIDE IN:
(THE ASTOUNDING)…
Embracing, participation, advocating, supporting, AntiGod, cheating, lying, theft, killing, homosexual, corrupt Behaviors.

Not a Surprise… FEW will be Saved.
The Reason is all around us.

God Bless You.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[amigo de christo]

I agree, it has started Jeremiah called it Jacob's trouble, it is worth reading these passages of the prophets about the end times. persecution of Christians are also increasing. I am preparing a new thread to unpack what some prophets were saying about the end times. they also explain in some details what will happen when jesus returns.

Blessings

When the inquity has hit the full
and when the peoples are chanting peace n safety
Well , lets jus say we dont want any part of that group . For when the DOOR shuts
and IT WILL
all outside will wail .
And if persecutions and tribulations , prison time and being killed
Even some burned alive FOR THE FAITH
HOW MUCH SORER a punsihment awaits those of the dry tree.
IT is t rue that man can do and inflict much pain upon the saints
and even kill us , as they have o ften t hrough out history done so .
But something far worse awaits those who rejected CHRIST
FAR WORSE .

 

[Davy]

I have already Made my declaration, I am “IN Christ.”

Your gaslighting and false Claims FOR ME, are MOOT.



You Have NOT ONCE quoted me Saying ANYTHING whatsoever AGAINST a future “gathering”!

You well know that I'm talking about your belief in a false Pre-trib Rapture theory. Don't hide it now, you've already owned up to it.

 

[Rockerduck]

You are describing MODERN PRESENT DAY … WOES …

Woes have come upon the people at Large for Decades, for Centuries.

Cheating, Lying, Theft, Corruption, Wars, Famines, Killing, Murders, Homosexuality, Anti-God, Shame…Nothing New

The Shocking Newness IS the Loud, in your Face, Shameless, Celebratory PRIDE IN:
(THE ASTOUNDING)…
Embracing, participation, advocating, supporting, AntiGod, cheating, lying, theft, killing, homosexual, corrupt Behaviors.

Not a Surprise… FEW will be Saved.
The Reason is all around us.

God Bless You.

Glory to God,
Taken

In the USA. How many mass shooting by children against children in schools, crazies on top of building shooting anyone. Cars crashing into parades and public gatherings, shootings in grocery stores and department stores. Only the last 30 yrs. Anger against political sides. Assassinations against elected officials, just because of hatred. The list goes on. like burning cities and looting. This is within 20 years.
The USA has had some instances here and there, but never in my lifetime like it is now. I was with a broadcaster doing a story on black-on-black crime and someone was shot and killed. He started reaching out to the public, guess what, people were getting killed every other day. He stopped the story. Now, look at the news, someone is shot and killed and its just another Sat. night story. Things have changed mightily in my lifetime. This is tribulation.
I agree with you on the Few. Maranatha

 

[Fred J]

But it has nothing to do with, one will be taken while the other left behind, in the field or dwelling.

A supporting fact to this is the parable about the 'Ten Virgins', 5 taken and 5 left behind.

This is an addition to what the Holy Ghost because of our Lord Jesus Christ want to expound further about the matter above.

One will be taken and the other left behind which also relates to the parable of the 'Ten Virgins', 5 taken and other 5 left behind.

5 virgins were ready and prepared while the other 5 virgins were ready and unprepared.

5 were ready to meet the Groom at time He said He would come, and were prepared further that He would probably be delayed.

While the other 5 were ready as well, but were unprepared that probably He's coming would be delayed.

In other words, church saints can be ready for the Lord's coming based on the signs of the time prophesied in the Holy Bible.

But according to that parable there's a sign there that teaches, that the grooms coming was delayed than expected.

He also expounded to His church that He will come like a thief in the night since no one know the time and hour.

Therefore at the 'first resurrection' only all the church saints who were ready and prepared expecting a delay of His coming will be taken.

Therefore the church saints who were ready but unprepared hence left behind, and their generation, will have to live and be buried during the thousand years with no resurrection.

During this period of time there are church saints who will remain faithful till the end and there are those who'll fall back and become lawless.

That's why after the thousand years is over and when the 'second resurrection' takes place, there'll be the church saints' who'll resurrect unto life.

And at the same time there'll be also the fallen lawless church who'll resurrect unto damnation.

In the final judgement where the Lord separates the sheep for Heaven and the goats for hell.

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ our Lord

 

[Fred J]

In the USA. How many mass shooting by children against children in schools, crazies on top of building shooting anyone. Cars crashing into parades and public gatherings, shootings in grocery stores and department stores. Only the last 30 yrs. Anger against political sides. Assassinations against elected officials, just because of hatred. The list goes on. like burning cities and looting. This is within 20 years.
The USA has had some instances here and there, but never in my lifetime like it is now. I was with a broadcaster doing a story on black-on-black crime and someone was shot and killed. He started reaching out to the public, guess what, people were getting killed every other day. He stopped the story. Now, look at the news, someone is shot and killed and its just another Sat. night story. Things have changed mightily in my lifetime. This is tribulation.
I agree with you on the Few. Maranatha

Just out of curiosity, why not as a group of concerned citizens bring your petition to the mayor and white house?

Since Biblically they are GOD's official servants who put criminals behind bars.

 

[Rockerduck]

Just out of curiosity, why not as a group of concerned citizens bring your petition to the mayor and white house?

Since Biblically they are GOD's official servants who put criminals behind bars.

They are in schools screening for mental health issues and looking for parents who train their children with guns with behavior issues, but evil is good at hiding.

 

[Taken]

You well know that I'm talking about your belief in a false Pre-trib Rapture theory. Don't hide it now, you've already owned up to it.

Own up to the Rapture… pifff.
What a dumb comment.
I’ve Never said otherwise.

I do believe in a Rapture Of the Righteous IN Christ “BEFORE” the Great Tribulation Begins with the WRATH of the Lamb.

What is fascinating…IS men who Claim to …
BE …
SAVED….
AND…
THAT WILL SUFFER THE WRATH of THE LAMB!

Why WILL the Lamb of God…MAKE ANY saved man Suffer Tribulations Sent From Heaven?

 

[Taken]

In the USA. How many mass shooting by children against children in schools, crazies on top of building shooting anyone. Cars crashing into parades and public gatherings, shootings in grocery stores and department stores. Only the last 30 yrs. Anger against political sides. Assassinations against elected officials, just because of hatred. The list goes on. like burning cities and looting. This is within 20 years.
The USA has had some instances here and there, but never in my lifetime like it is now. I was with a broadcaster doing a story on black-on-black crime and someone was shot and killed. He started reaching out to the public, guess what, people were getting killed every other day. He stopped the story. Now, look at the news, someone is shot and killed and its just another Sat. night story. Things have changed mightily in my lifetime. This is tribulation.
I agree with you on the Few. Maranatha

In Brief…

God Created And Made…Habitats…for His Creatures, (angels, animals, plants, humans)…
Established DIVISIONS…

God Created AND Made His human Creations To have the Ability to Choose to BE LIKE God.

Humans… DO One of Two Things…
Assimilate OR Resist.

The USA has a long History of…
* The European… Assimilating, having Allegiance to America.
* The African… Assimilating, having Allegiance to America.
*The South American / Mexican… Assimilating, having Allegiance to America.

THEY, ONE People…Americans…male, females, marrying, having and taking care of THIER Property, THEIR Children.

AND WHAT Happened?
War I. War II… and WOW…The First Major FAMILY SPLIT…(Thousands of Households with VACANT Head Of Household…(king of the Castle…MEN!)

AND??
WHO… took Advantage of Becoming … THE MASTER… of Thousands of Households…?

Corrupt, hand wringing, Clever, Devious Politicians.
Umpteen “programs” (450+ to date)…

And not to Overlook… the offspring, children…to “SHAPE”, “MOLD”, “CONTROL” Their “THINKING”…. “

AN INDOCTRINATION PHILOSOPHICAL EDUCATION…
* Void of God… Nix any teaching or mention of God in children’s “FREE” Education.
* School Books, of Divide, Divide, Divide, with PARTICULAR Focus…ON the Minorities With The Least Knowledge Of AMERICAN History…
* INTENT… ???
* KEEP the People DIVIDED.
* WHY?
* Encourage Strife, Division, Among the People. Keep the People busy Against Each other…
WHY?
The people pay no Attention to…
* Corrupt Political Sitters, WHO Maintain AND Expand…MASTER Control.

Look at How many … Pridefully…push, shove, clammer, to demand “their MASTER”… feed, house, clothe, them!!

Astounding … they know not what they Do.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[rebuilder 454]

you do not have any verses to prove what you say, none.

Look I do not present a "doctrine" I present scripture, ill say the same to you as I said to taken this morning.

rebuilder, the words of Christ are very clear and should not be denied, either you believe what jesus said or you do not there is no middle ground;

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days: ‘The sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’
Mat 24:30 At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

At that time, and only then, will the Son of man appear and all will see him coming in his glory. that time is immediately AFTER the tribulation. here we talk about the great tribulation as described in the previous verses of the verses ( Matthew 24:2-28 )

Jesus words are clear and require NO interpretation from anyone. The rest of scrioture say the sane thing.

Lol
You just OMITTED JESUS WORDS that TEACH a pretrib rapture.
Then advise me to do the same.

The pretrib rapture is easy to defend.
You verify you are wrong over and over VIA OMISSION.
Postribber banner foundation verse "after the trib" is a pretrib rapture verse!!!!
You claim Jesus said,"AFTER THE TRIB, angels gather the saints in heaven."
WE AGREE!!!!
There is a gathering of the elect in heaven who were PREVIOUSLY GATHERED BY JESUS ( not angels) seven years prior.
Ahem....they got to heaven via the pretrib rapture.
Psssst....Rev 19 has the bride becoming the wife in heaven.
Your doctrine Never Includes the Jewish gathering.
I have NEVER heard your teachers include it.

Amazing also what your teachers do with mat 24.
Ask one of them how in the one gathered, half the earth's population is half righteous/half wicked.
Then ask them how " before the flood" the wicked are gathered and the righteous are left.
There has never been any such scenario of half of earth righteous and half wicked.
....and NEVER WILL BE.

So, what dynamic is half gathered?
Postribbers can not answer. They draw a total blank.
No postribber can answer that, or the pretrib rapture verses , or the Dynamic of romans 9-11, which is the basis of rev 14.
No postrib teacher can answer that.
Then ask yourself WHY your teachers are totally void of any knowledge of the bride and groom dynamic.

All of heaven is awaiting the gathering of the bride.
The next great event.

The bible ends in the bride calling out to the groom.
Heaven leaves the believer with a thought in the last words of the bible.
(The bride and groom dynamic.)

No postribber is looking for the groom.
In fact you mock it.

Then misrepresent God's word concerning Jesus CLEAR teaching.

How ironic you point to Rev 19, (unbeknownst to you), which shows Jesus coming AFTER THE 7 YR TRIB, ON WHITE HORSES, IN POWER AND GREAT GLORY.

Then, in your mind, you transpose that into a postrib rapture.

You have no verses. None.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Yes, as the scripture refers to them as 'backsliders'.

But it has nothing to do with, one will be taken while the other left behind, in the field or dwelling.

A supporting fact to this is the parable about the 'Ten Virgins', 5 taken and 5 left behind.

Apparently those who've tasted Christ and go away from faith, it's better they did not know Christ at all.

Meaning, it's worst for them than an unsaved person, and that's why we are to persuade them back seriously.

They're no longer considered as virgins anymore since they've become like a prodigal child went out on their own.

This is the point am given to make, so that'll be sound doctrine, and i'll back off, thank you.

Shalom in the name of Lord Jesus Christ.

I partially agree.
But the foolish are virgins that miss the rapture.
They appear in heaven with dirty robes washed clean after being martyred by refusing the mark.
Millions of them.

The virgin parable is a depiction of "worthy vs unworthy".

The 2 escape verses are "worthy vs unworthy" "
The bema seat rewards are "worthy vs unworthy."

The 7 letters by Jesus are "worthy vs unworthy "
The rapture is the groom gathering the bride.
Not every Christian is the bride.
The characteristic of the bride is intimacy.

The foolish virgins were told to "go and buy"
Those that lost their first love ,in the 7 letters, were told to "go and buy"

Paul said there are 3 main classes of believers.
Infant babies
Carnal
Spiritual/ mature.

The carnal are those left behind.
Roughly half the church.

 

[Rockerduck]

In Brief…

God Created And Made…Habitats…for His Creatures, (angels, animals, plants, humans)…
Established DIVISIONS…

God Created AND Made His human Creations To have the Ability to Choose to BE LIKE God.

Humans… DO One of Two Things…
Assimilate OR Resist.

The USA has a long History of…
* The European… Assimilating, having Allegiance to America.
* The African… Assimilating, having Allegiance to America.
*The South American / Mexican… Assimilating, having Allegiance to America.

THEY, ONE People…Americans…male, females, marrying, having and taking care of THIER Property, THEIR Children.

AND WHAT Happened?
War I. War II… and WOW…The First Major FAMILY SPLIT…(Thousands of Households with VACANT Head Of Household…(king of the Castle…MEN!)

AND??
WHO… took Advantage of Becoming … THE MASTER… of Thousands of Households…?

Corrupt, hand wringing, Clever, Devious Politicians.
Umpteen “programs” (450+ to date)…

And not to Overlook… the offspring, children…to “SHAPE”, “MOLD”, “CONTROL” Their “THINKING”…. “

AN INDOCTRINATION PHILOSOPHICAL EDUCATION…
* Void of God… Nix any teaching or mention of God in children’s “FREE” Education.
* School Books, of Divide, Divide, Divide, with PARTICULAR Focus…ON the Minorities With The Least Knowledge Of AMERICAN History…
* INTENT… ???
* KEEP the People DIVIDED.
* WHY?
* Encourage Strife, Division, Among the People. Keep the People busy Against Each other…
WHY?
The people pay no Attention to…
* Corrupt Political Sitters, WHO Maintain AND Expand…MASTER Control.

Look at How many … Pridefully…push, shove, clammer, to demand “their MASTER”… feed, house, clothe, them!!

Astounding … they know not what they Do.

Glory to God,
Taken

And all that started after 1900. In 1903 the wright bros flew a 12 second flight. 10 years later biplanes were flying in WW1. This is when the last days started. Now look how fast that happened. Jesus slept in a wooden boat with sails, in 1492 Columbus sailed on wooden boats with sails. In 1800 all boats were wooden with sails. But between 1880 and 1917 technology increased. battle ships, fighter planes. Social security and welfare began just after the great depression. Society got hooked on Gov't money. The list of woes is long in the last days and its speeding up. No phone to cell phones. Wood stoves to microwaves. Amazing to think about. Out houses and wells to indoor plumbing. All this after 1900. Church schools to public schools. Horse and buggy to Tesla's. Coal heat to central air. This has all happened in two generations. If you lived in the 1800's you would have hunted with the same musket great granpa used. Everything has speed up towards the end, like a ball rolling downhill.

 

[LoveYeshua]

Lol
You just OMITTED JESUS WORDS that TEACH a pretrib rapture.
Then advise me to do the same.

The pretrib rapture is easy to defend.
You verify you are wrong over and over VIA OMISSION.
Postribber banner foundation verse "after the trib" is a pretrib rapture verse!!!!
You claim Jesus said,"AFTER THE TRIB, angels gather the saints in heaven."
WE AGREE!!!!
There is a gathering of the elect in heaven who were PREVIOUSLY GATHERED BY JESUS ( not angels) seven years prior.
Ahem....they got to heaven via the pretrib rapture.
Psssst....Rev 19 has the bride becoming the wife in heaven.
Your doctrine Never Includes the Jewish gathering.
I have NEVER heard your teachers include it.

Amazing also what your teachers do with mat 24.
Ask one of them how in the one gathered, half the earth's population is half righteous/half wicked.
Then ask them how " before the flood" the wicked are gathered and the righteous are left.
There has never been any such scenario of half of earth righteous and half wicked.
....and NEVER WILL BE.

So, what dynamic is half gathered?
Postribbers can not answer. They draw a total blank.
No postribber can answer that, or the pretrib rapture verses , or the Dynamic of romans 9-11, which is the basis of rev 14.
No postrib teacher can answer that.
Then ask yourself WHY your teachers are totally void of any knowledge of the bride and groom dynamic.

All of heaven is awaiting the gathering of the bride.
The next great event.

The bible ends in the bride calling out to the groom.
Heaven leaves the believer with a thought in the last words of the bible.
(The bride and groom dynamic.)

No postribber is looking for the groom.
In fact you mock it.

Then misrepresent God's word concerning Jesus CLEAR teaching.

How ironic you point to Rev 19, (unbeknownst to you), which shows Jesus coming AFTER THE 7 YR TRIB, ON WHITE HORSES, IN POWER AND GREAT GLORY.

Then, in your mind, you transpose that into a postrib rapture.

You have no verses. None.

you transpose to me the fact that you do not have verses that proves a pre-trib. rapture . i have provided verses in the O.P. but you have not show me what I "missed". Show me these verses and explain fully if you can once and for all all you say is very vague.

 

[rebuilder 454]

you transpose to me the fact that you do not have verses that proves a pre-trib. rapture . i have provided verses in the O.P. but you have not show me what I "missed". Show me these verses and explain fully if you can once and for all all you say is very vague.

Just ask me . ( which has been presented a million times)
1) ACTS 1
2) MATT 24
3) MATT 25
4) The last supper dialogue " you will be with me in heaven" ..( remember, postribbs say they do not go to heaven)
Also At the last supper ,Jesus said to the disciples "I will not drink of this cup again until I drank it anew with you in my father's kingdom
5) Rev 14 a Jewish rapture. ( postribs forget that in 1 thes 4, the dead in Christ are supposed to rise first. Their doctrine has the dead in Christ rising 2nd!!!!)
6) Rev 19 the bride has become the wife in heaven. Jewish law forbids war participation for 1 year after wedding. Postribs have no heaven for the bride and immediate warfare.
7) The escape verse by Jesus " pray that you may be counted worthy to escape the things about to come upon the earth "
8) the other escape verse by Jesus, "because you have kept the word of my testimony, I will also keep you out of the trial about to come upon the entire world"
9) The Jewsish component of romans 9-11
Verifying God's gathering of The wayward wife, pointing to Rev 14.
10) Rev 13:7-18
( the AC kills everyone refusing the mark)
"....ALL TAKE THE MARK NOT WRITTEN IN THE BOOK....EVERY MAN WOMAN AND CHILD....."
AHEM.....makes a postrib rapture 100% impossible.
All your teachers fail in every one of those 10 things.
11) Plus, If the Antichrist Kicks off the 7 year. Great tribulation, which he does, it is noted that he has a Crown, and he's carrying a bow in his hand. ( a bow Signifies covenant)

But whether you're insisting a postrib or a post wrath rapture, you can calculate to the day when the rapture is.( 7 years (or 3.5 for mid tribbers) after the AC covenant as per Daniel 9)
So only a pretrib rapture, stands true to the word, that no one knows the day or the hour.
12) 1 thes 4.
13) every rapture verse is "normal life, commerce, planning for the future and everyday life".
Your position has 100% OPPOSITE SETTING.
In fact, your position celebrates the hell on earth, and you "real christian" guys imagining running from cave to cave to escape the devil man.
14) the bible has Noah gathered pretrib
Lot gathered pretrib, the baby Jesus
gathered and removed to Egypt pretrib.

The rapture is the gathering of the gentile bride ( Ruth)
The trib is "Jacob's trouble " which is Israel's trouble.
Jewish trouble.
The church is indirectly included in it.
Postribs have the trib as the centerpiece,and their doctrine 100% focused on the supposed church enduring it, and TOTALLY MISUNDERSTAND GODS PURPOSE....Totally miss the very point of the trib!!!!!

I know...I know ....none of that matters.