The changing perception of hell. - How do you define it?

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Taken

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St. SteVen said:
Damnationism and Annihilationism are contradictory.

That's a pretty good reply, but Damnationism claims that the torment will last forever.
So, it really is contradictory with Annihilationism.

Torment of something that IS Alive Forever…“DOES Last Forever”.

“Created “spirits” DO live forever…
Ie, Angels ARE everlasting Alive.
Some spirits (angels) who remain “holy” remain alive forever WITH God.
Some spirits (angels) who “fall from their holiness”… ALSO fall from “grace… Gods Grace, which is Gods Mercy”…
Yes, such Fallen Angels Shall experience, eternal “spirit” life in torment, separation From God.

Humans ARE NOT “spirits” they “HAVE” a spirit.

Gods “Grace” extended to humans whose “natural spirit” Rejects God… IS God DOES NOT give “them His Seed”, thus their “natural spirit” IS Never Born Again, and Thus Does NOT live “eternally”….thus can Not be in torment “eternally”.
That IS Gods “Mercy” upon human men who choose to reject God.
(No forever life…in body, soul or spirit)
( No life, no ability to experience torment, pain, agony.)

Glory to God,
Taken
 

St. SteVen

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St. SteVen said:
Everyone who has gone to the afterlife since Jesus harrowed hell. (the realm of the dead)
That has not heard the gospel in order to respond. And there are still unreached people groups today.
I don't see any way to support that claim that EVERYONE has had the opportunity to choose Jesus.
Not to overlook or dismiss … WHOSE Say is the Final say…

WHO? The ALL Knowing Lord God ALL- Mighty.

WHAT does He KNOW? All things.

WHAT / HOW does He Verify a Mans Belief?
So, you claim the God will be unfair to humankind?
That the supposed claim that a decision must be made in this lifetime
overrides the reality that not everyone was given the opportunity?
 

St. SteVen

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Universalism is All WILL be Saved.

Scripture does Not teach that.
Sure it does.

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

Romans 11:32, 36
32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
36 For from him and through him and for him are all things.
To him be the glory forever! Amen.

Titus 2:11 ESV
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

John 1:29 NIV
... The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said,
Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

1 Timothy 4:10 NIV
That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God,
who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

1 John 4:14 NIV
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

Romans 5:15-16
But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man,
how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!
16 Nor can the gift of God be compared with the result of one man’s sin:
The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.

Romans 5:18-19 NIV
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

Colossians 1:19-20
For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

1 Timothy 2:1-6
I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.

Romans 3:24 NIV
and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

Romans 9:16 NIV
It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.

James 2:13 NIV
... Mercy triumphs over judgment.

Matthew 18:11 NKJV
For the Son of Man has come to save that which was lost.

Luke 19:10 NIV
For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”
 

Taken

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St. SteVen said:
Everyone who has gone to the afterlife since Jesus harrowed hell. (the realm of the dead)
That has not heard the gospel in order to respond. And there are still unreached people groups today.

Since “Jesus”.
“Gospel”
“still Unreached people today”…

Agree.


I don't see any way to support that claim that EVERYONE has had the opportunity to choose Jesus.

You are changing the narrative… to “specific”
“Jesus, Gospel, unreached people”

Before Jesus, and the Gospel…
God was Saving men
WHO…Heard… about God.
WHO…Heard… Gods Word.
WHO…Believed in “Gods WORD” {WHEN Gods WORD’S “NAME” was still “Secret”.)
** AND (the ALL Knowing God)
Saving mens souls AFTER their bodily Death WHO would believe… “IF” they had had opportunity to hear and would Believe When Alive
That HAS NOT Changed.

Jesus arrived… ON Earth 2,000 + years ago.
The Gospel Declared… Jesus IS the Word of God.
The Gospel Declared…The WORD of God IS absolute Truth.
The Gospel Declared… Jesus IS the Christ.
The Gospel Declared…The Christ IS: the POWER AND SEED of God.
The Gospel Declared…CHRIST JESUS HAS the POWER, AUTHORITY, MEANS, and CONSENT of GOD, to:
* HEAR a mans Confessions.
* Forgive men for having HAD, unbelief.
* JUSTIFY, SANCTIFY, men.
* Baptize men, With the Lamb of God.
* Spiritually, Circumcise a mans Heart.
* Spiritually Dwell IN a mans Heart.
* Continually Communicate WITH such individual.
* Save souls of men… BEFORE the mans Bodily Death.
* Quicken a mans spirit BEFORE a mans Bodily Death.
* Take, Claim, Lift Up, Redeem THAT man BEFORE… THE NEXT, SECOND, LAST GREAT TRIBULATION Judgements “Pre-Planned” TO BE Sent Down From Heaven Upon THIS (mans habitat) Whole World.
* etc. etc.

Gods Salvation… of AFTER a believing mans Bodily Death… continues… yesterday, today, and on the morrow through the Seals Judgements, through the Trumps Judgements… and Ceases Before the Bowl Judgements.

Jesus’ Salvation … of Salvation BEFORE a believing mans Bodily DEATH Continues UNTIL the The Great Tribulation BEGINS.


So, you claim the God will be unfair to humankind?

UnFAIR? No. I have NEVER made such a claim.

Ignoring YOUR TERM “regarding FAIRNESS”…
I have expressly Claimed… God IS JUST.

That the supposed claim that a decision must be made in this lifetime

Use a tad of “Reasoning”…
Blood IS The Life OF a man.
How, When, CAN / Does a Dead MAN, MAKE ANY “Decisions”?

Ancient Knowledge;
Gen 9:
[5] And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man.

Ecc 9:
[5] For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Modern knowledge.
The dead do not walk, talk, jump up off an autopsy table and say to stop breaking their bones and removing their organs.

overrides the reality that not everyone was given the opportunity?

Reality IS God is All knowing and Just.

the Spiritual TRUTH IS:
* Jesus Saves Before A mans mortal bodily Death, AFTER a man HAS HEARD and Freely elected to Heartfully Confess his Belief.


1 Thes 4:
[15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


Do not be alarmed… WHEN They “IN Christ” are Redeemed, Removed From Harms Way of Great Tribulations sent from Heaven upon the whole Earth…

God is NOT Lax, uninformed, of men coming into Belief, During the Trib… their Body’s mortally Dying, and God Saving “Their souls”…

* God Saves men AFTER their Death…WHO “would have believed, IF they HAD Heard.

1 Thes 4:
[14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.


AFTER the Trib…
AFTER the 1,000 year reign of Christ Jesus.
God Gathers ALL the Dead Body’s…From the Earth…
WHO…(were NOT In Christ and already risen)
WHO…(Rejected knowledge and Belief)
WHO…(Accepted Belief During the Trib, but AFTER Christ Jesus Redeemed His Church)
AND…

WHAT? Those “mortally DEAD (no blood) Bodies are going to SAY “Oops”,”I Believe”?

No.
Those souls, with GODS LIFE… WILL be “Returned to Their mortally (bloodless) Lifeless Bodies…
AND
SEE the Son of God, sitting on a WHITE Cloud …AND THEN, Believe … AND THEN bow down and Worship Him.

Think about that…
All souls Belong to God.
It is The Soul returned to “an unConfessed mans body”… that Sees, that causes the “unConfessed mans body” to bow and Worship the Son of man.

The “Spiritual understanding” IS:
The Whole Life…IN a man …blood, Gods breath, Spirit (truth) of man… Must Confess Belief…to BE Saved.

If ONE “Life” in man (blood, Gods Breath, spirit)… does NOT confess Belief… Before it Dies…Salvation is Withheld.

A man whose Life (blood) does NOT Confess BEFORE it Dies…
The Blood of his Life IS NOT returned to him, “so he can confess”!

A Saving DOES Not occur… until the Confession is MADE before a mans mortal (blood) Death…
And the Salvation Effected / Given AFTER an accounting in Gods “Books” of Evidence… the mans mortal blood Life body is Accounted DEAD.

All “SHOULD” bow to Jesus.
All “SHALL” bow to God.

Phil 2:
[10] That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

Isa 45:
[23] I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

Rom.14
[11] For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

Yet all NOT ALL, Bodys, souls, spirits SHALL be saved.

TIMING…Genuine TRUTH…is paramount …

Dead bloodless, lifeless mortal body’s, can Confess Nothing…

And NO salvation IS “Given” until AFTER a Mortal Bodily Life is Accounted Dead.

1 Cor 15:
[36] Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

Glory to God,
Taken
 
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Taken

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So do you believe in Annihilation for those who never had a choice?

Regarding a man… WHO has NOT Believed, Known IF he would ever Believe…
The “spirit of man” (ie the truth in a man’s heart)…. is Searched BY God.… and that mans Soul AFTER bodily Death Saved by God….
Even When That man had not lived Long enough to come into belief and Confess his Belief.

God IS All knowing.
Man IS Not.
Man knows NOT “if or when” on what day he MIGHT believe.
God DOES Know.
God REACTS on what God Knows…
Not on what or when a man knows.

God KNOWS Before a human is “conceived”…
When and What that born individual will Heartfully Believe at the moment of his mortal death.

God has Already “prepared” a Place for Every individual…
Whose Heart (shall) Believe…
And
Whose Heart (Shall) Reject Him.

It is the majority of men, still wondering, contemplating, kinda believing, then not sure…

It is FEW men, WHO have taken the Effort to Hear, Learn, Study, Continue that path, AND MAKE a Diligent, Assured, Decision, of a True Confession of their Heartful Belief…To the Lord God.
( ie. The Greatest Point of The Gospel!!)
The OFFERING of Assured Salvation… and the Individuals Choice to Reach out and TAKE the Offering…of ONCE, Assured, Receiving, Possessing, SALVATION, before his own mortal Death.).

I know Corrupt preachers preach and some Corrupt church Doctrines Teach…
A man CAN be “Saved”…. And THEN “Lose” his Salvation…

Absolutely False.
A Saved Mans “received” Salvation.. IS Kept intact, By the Power of God “with-IN” that man…
NOT by the wishy Washy preaching and doctrines of men… that Claim “a Saved man Can lose, give back, reject” Salvation he has “Received”.

Ludicrous on its face, that a mans power IN him, is Greater that Gods power “in” that man.

Glory to God.
Taken
 
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