LEFT BEHIND ... what to do?

[Ronald David Bruno]

The rapture and resurrection takes place at the coming of the Lord.


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15


The Second Coming of Christ.

The Rapture is the resurrection for those who are living or dead in Christ. We are all caught up inti heaven to meet the Lord.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

I did not avoid your question. I answered it per the written Bible Scripture, which your question does not abide by.

What makes you think that just the mention of the "two candlesticks" along with God's "two witnesses" has to mean the two elect Churches only be located in Jerusalem? That's absolutist thinking, and not keeping with Bible Scripture flow about the events of the end that Jesus warned His elect. Do you not remember Luke 21:21 Jesus said those of His servants in the countries to not enter into Jerusalem at that time of the end?

Luke 21:20-21
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
KJV



Nope, not what I said. And it is Lord Jesus speaking about the "synagogue of Satan" to His two elect Churches in Rev.2:9 and Rev.3:9. Maybe you should read it more carefully the next time...

Rev 2:9
9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
KJV

Rev 3:9
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
KJV

By Jesus pointing that out to them, it means those two Churches were meant... to understand about Christ's ultimate enemies of Jude 4, the "synagogue of Satan", which is not about true seed born Jews, but about the false crept in unawares that were ORDAINED by God to work against Christ!

Do I really need to spoon feed you about this? Just because your preachers won't talk about it in the Church doesn't mean it is not written in God's Word. There it is, so address it as written. And notice Jesus' point of identity of who that "synagogue of Satan" represents, not true Judah born of the seed that may be deceived, but false converts of foreigners that crept in among Judah and became religious Jews. Those are the ones of John 8 that Lord Jesus rebuked and said God was not their father, but that the devil was.



Something wrong with the way you think. You appear to dream up ideas in your head that don't have anything to do with the subject.

The other 5 Churches had problems in them, the Churches of Pergamos and Thyatira both had idol worshipers leading them! The woman at Thyatira leading that Church Jesus called a Jezebel. Do you recall the Jezebel of Old Testament history, the wife of Ahab, king of the northern kingdom of Israel? Jezebel was not born of Israel, but was a Zidonian (or Sidonian of Sidon) and a worshiper of Baal. She had all of God's prophets except Elijah slaughtered, and she looked to kill him too, but Elijah fled.

Didn't you notice Jesus saying even to those 5 Churches to repent, and this...

Rev 2:24-25
24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.
25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.
KJV

Rev 3:4
4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white: for they are worthy.
KJV

You've never really read the above Scripture, have you?

Not everyone in those 5 Churches are guilty of wrong doing. Same as it is in all of Christ's Churches today. That means there are those WHO KNOW BETTER when some preachers are pushing doctrines of men outside God's written Word. It's just a type burden they endure, while waiting on Christ's future return. We should attend where God leads us, and you never know, God may want us to attend a Church that has problems that needs to repent, and we may be led there to set an example for them in Christ.

But the two Churches of Smyrna and Philadelphia, Jesus had not even one word of rebuke for them. That can only mean they represent His "very elect" that know the Truth and cannot be deceived.

Don't imply I haven't read those scriptures, I know what they say and mean.
I thought and was mistaken that you implied the two churches were the two witnesses. You went all through the explanation of two candlesticks and went into this long discussion referencing the church as being the two candlesticks.
Your post #290 quite: "Those two candlesticks, or Churches, represent Christ's very elect. They will prophesy in many nations along with the time of the "two witnesses" in Jerusalem."

Guess I breezed past those two words. My error and partial misunderstanding.
Your dissertation gave me a knee jerk reflection of the false doctrine out there that interprets the Church as the Two Witnesses and so I responded against it.

However, the fact that the two churches (and types represented throughout the ages), Philadelphia and Symrna, both faithful did not receive rebuke, does not mean the rest of the churches did not contain faithful Christians, nor were dead or not elect. They contained tares among them.
God requires repentance to all throughout our lives. We need constant chastising from Him as we sometimes get off the path. Those churches received correction and likely many repented that is our story. Some are strong in the faith and some weak. Some churches teach false doctrines, but it doesn't mean the whole church is rotten, nor that the congregants adherent to those errors.
Still, all in all, I disagree with the post-trib view.

 

[amigo de christo]

The Rapture is the resurrection for those who are living or dead in Christ. We are all caught up inti heaven to meet the Lord.

and its the day we look forward too my friend . Forever with the glorious LORD who has saved us .
Any guesses on when this day occurs .
IN a day and hour known to no man , no not even the angels ......Only to the Father .
But we sure have many signs by which we sure do see the day approaching .
May i give us all some real simple advice that i am sure you know it , but its good for us to be reminded .
There will be the ressurection of the just , THOSE IN CHRIST , and the ressurection of the unjust ,
anyone who rejected JESUS and followed any other religoin . The latter will wail my friend .
And i only can shudder for those who used JESUS name to promote the lie that all religoins serve the same God .
Because evil it truly is to d eny the dire need to have beleived on JESUS to be saved
YET how much more evil to have done so USING even his name .

 

[amigo de christo]

Don't imply I haven't read those scriptures, I know what they say and mean.
I thought and was mistaken that you implied the two churches were the two witnesses. You went all through the explanation of two candlesticks and went into this long discussion referencing the church as being the two candlesticks.
Your post #290 quite: "Those two candlesticks, or Churches, represent Christ's very elect. They will prophesy in many nations along with the time of the "two witnesses" in Jerusalem."

Guess I breezed past those two words. My error and partial misunderstanding.
Your dissertation gave me a knee jerk reflection of the false doctrine out there that interprets the Church as the Two Witnesses and so I responded against it.

However, the fact that the two churches (and types represented throughout the ages), Philadelphia and Symrna, both faithful did not receive rebuke, does not mean the rest of the churches did not contain faithful Christians, nor were dead or not elect. They contained tares among them.
God requires repentance to all throughout our lives. We need constant chastising from Him as we sometimes get off the path. Those churches received correction and likely many repented that is our story. Some are strong in the faith and some weak. Some churches teach false doctrines, but it doesn't mean the whole church is rotten, nor that the congregants adherent to those errors.
Still, all in all, I disagree with the post-trib view.

Tares . Let us speak of tares and who is the planter of such . The planter of the tare is the dark one . as i am sure you know that .
What if i told you we now have not only many tares within christendome
but that many who lead this people are tares and have planted a FALSE gospel amongst this people .
I guess many have forgotten , due to the judge not correct not ,
that we were supposed to have no dealings , OTHER THAN TO REBUKE , any , any who preaches any other gospel .
Yet not only are they allowed to remain , HECK many even lead this people now .
And they lead them to what all beleive will be the promised land and world of peace n safety .
Only they realize not THIS WORKS ONLY to their sudden destruction , ON THAT GREAT and MIGHTY DAY of GOD and THE LAMB .
So i suggest that if any does preach this ecumenical lie that it amatters not what ones religoin is
WE BREAK COMPANY with such and rebuke them sharply before all . Perhaps some might repent .
SO i will let the words of an apostel , i KNOW KNEW JESUS , named john
sum it up .
If any comes and brings NOT THIS DOCTRINE , DO NOT even let them into your house ,
No common ground and trying to get along , NO do not even bid them god speed at all .
They are only a danger to themselves and to this people . DEADLY indeed is it to preach another gospel of UNBELEIF .
OH i mean SUPER deadly that one is . And will be repaid with MUCH wailing on the DAY OF THE LORD who their UNBELEIF denied .

 

[rebuilder 454]

What You Believe Has Absolutely Nothing To Do With Biblical Truth, You Run From The Fact "Fire" In God's Wrath Is Seen In Revelation 14:18-19 At The Lord's Return "Why"?

Once Again

You conveniently forgot to mention Verses 18-19 below "Why"? "Smiles"!

It's exactly the very same fire seen throughout scripture at the Lord's second coming Luke 17:29-30 being just one example, Jesus returns in fire (The End)

Revelation 14:18-19KJV
18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

(Destroyed Them All)

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

rebuilder 454 said:
I 100% belive Jesus will return on a horse with millions of horses with saints mounted on them as seen in Rev 19.
Rev 14:14 is not and can not be that return of rev 19.
Impossible.
So the "one coming" fallacy is laid to rest?
Acts 1 " like manner" return is the "rapture coming" ( MAIN HARVEST)
Preceeded by FIRSTFRUITS JESUS.
( again , main harvest, grain harvest)
Rev 14 14 is JEWISH HARVEST.
Preceeded by FIRSTFRUIT JEWS.
( 144,000 OF THEM)
(Fruit harvest)
Firstfruit Jews is not nor can it be FIRSTFRUITS JESUS.""


QUOTE by 7t7;
""What You Believe Has Absolutely Nothing To Do With Biblical Truth, You Run From The Fact "Fire" In God's Wrath Is Seen In Revelation 14:18-19 At The Lord's Return "Why"?"""

Lol.
I believe Jesus returns on horses because the bible says so.
Your response ;
" what you believe has nothing to do...."

Really????
So under your Bible wisdom, believing what is plain and factual in the bible does not matter???

 

[amigo de christo]

Don't imply I haven't read those scriptures, I know what they say and mean.
I thought and was mistaken that you implied the two churches were the two witnesses. You went all through the explanation of two candlesticks and went into this long discussion referencing the church as being the two candlesticks.
Your post #290 quite: "Those two candlesticks, or Churches, represent Christ's very elect. They will prophesy in many nations along with the time of the "two witnesses" in Jerusalem."

Guess I breezed past those two words. My error and partial misunderstanding.
Your dissertation gave me a knee jerk reflection of the false doctrine out there that interprets the Church as the Two Witnesses and so I responded against it.

However, the fact that the two churches (and types represented throughout the ages), Philadelphia and Symrna, both faithful did not receive rebuke, does not mean the rest of the churches did not contain faithful Christians, nor were dead or not elect. They contained tares among them.
God requires repentance to all throughout our lives. We need constant chastising from Him as we sometimes get off the path. Those churches received correction and likely many repented that is our story. Some are strong in the faith and some weak. Some churches teach false doctrines, but it doesn't mean the whole church is rotten, nor that the congregants adherent to those errors.
Still, all in all, I disagree with the post-trib view.

Would you say that a false religoin is a heretick . OF course you would .
SO why are folks trying to find common ground with herticks .
And not r ather be doing as paul said . AFTER the first or second admonition if they hear you not
SHAKE the dust off your feet . Yet this generation wants to find common ground .
THEY have no idea THIS IS the very snare that will cause their fall . RIGHT into the trap of the deadlist lie of all
and that of UNBELEIF . YE cannot be equally yoked with darkness . THERE IS NO COMMON ground
between darkness and light . The mix is only the lie . EITHER one beleives THE TRUTH OF GOD
HIS TESTIMONY OF JESUS CHRIST , or they simply beleive it not and call GOD himself a liar .
WE have n othing in common with them . THEY are as lost as we all once were .
TIME TO SHINE THE GLORIOUS LIGHT OF THE GLORIOUS GOSPEL unto this people
and i mean also unto the churches again . cause many have sold out to a lie
of unbelief and beleief . NO SUCH THING exists . YE cannot say I BELEIVE
but then turn around and say OH it matters not if they beleived . EITHER WE BELEIVE YE MUST BELEIVE
in HIM TO BE SAVED , OR WE DO NOT . not both . both is the lie . both is the lie . for it is truly
UNBELEIF they beleive in , NOT THE GOSPEL OF YE MUST BELEIVE

 

[JLB]

The Rapture is the resurrection for those who are living or dead in Christ.

‘No. The rapture is the catching up for those who are alive and remain.

The resurrection is for those who have died.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Tares . Let us speak of tares and who is the planter of such . The planter of the tare is the dark one . as i am sure you know that .
What if i told you we now have not only many tares within christendome
but that many who lead this people are tares and have planted a FALSE gospel amongst this people .
I guess many have forgotten , due to the judge not correct not ,
that we were supposed to have no dealings , OTHER THAN TO REBUKE , any , any who preaches any other gospel .
Yet not only are they allowed to remain , HECK many even lead this people now .
And they lead them to what all beleive will be the promised land and world of peace n safety .
Only they realize not THIS WORKS ONLY to their sudden destruction , ON THAT GREAT and MIGHTY DAY of GOD and THE LAMB .
So i suggest that if any does preach this ecumenical lie that it amatters not what ones religoin is
WE BREAK COMPANY with such and rebuke them sharply before all . Perhaps some might repent .
SO i will let the words of an apostel , i KNOW KNEW JESUS , named john
sum it up .
If any comes and brings NOT THIS DOCTRINE , DO NOT even let them into your house ,
No common ground and trying to get along , NO do not even bid them god speed at all .
They are only a danger to themselves and to this people . DEADLY indeed is it to preach another gospel of UNBELEIF .
OH i mean SUPER deadly that one is . And will be repaid with MUCH wailing on the DAY OF THE LORD who their UNBELEIF denied .

I don't see any wheat fields around where I live, but can imagine that some have fewer tares than others depending on how they car for their crops. I likened it to a lawn which everyone can relate to. The weeds can be numerous unless you subdue them, rip them out by the roots. But every year they sprout up. So it is with churches. Philadelphia type church has all faithful congregants. Much care and attention given. But then in other churches less loving, careful and obedient, tares multiply. Still you don't throw out the baby with the dirty bath water.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Would you say that a false religoin is a heretick . OF course you would .
SO why are folks trying to find common ground with herticks .

There is this ecumenical movement to welcome all religions, respect them as if all roads lead to Rome. False religions are hereticle.
However, I wouldn't sonquickly label ( as you often do), Christians as heretics just because they believe in false doctrines yet still have faith in Jesus as their Lord and Savior.
Denting core fundamentals of Christianity necessary for salvation may qualify as heretical. But we are not judges, nor can we put each individual on trial. I do see tares in the fold in this forum, but not many.

The mix is only the lie . EITHER one beleives THE TRUTH OF GOD
HIS TESTIMONY OF JESUS CHRIST , or they simply beleive it not and call GOD himself a liar .

I wasn't a believer until I was 35 years old. I was blind, but since I didn't know God or what the Bible claimed, how could I call Him a liar. People don't do that. My Dad was an atheist most of his life until a few years before his death; so he couldn't call God an liar since he did not believe he existed.

WE have n othing in common with them . THEY are as lost as we all once were .

This is why you are not an evangelist, you don't have the gift. You seem to judge them severely, not attempt to find anything in common and cast them off as reprobates.
Evangelists seek to find something good in people and focus on that. Missionaries go to Haiti and don't start with condemnation and attack their voodoo practices. They start by finding a need and providing help, love them ... water, food, shelter, medical. They love them first. Then after awhile these people wonder why are they so good and nice to us and ask. Then the missionaries (patiently waiting for them to open the door) gently give them the gospel. They don't go there and open with Hell fire and hit them over the heads with their Bibles.
I never read the book, "How to win Friends and Influence People" ; but maybe you should?
That said, according Eph. 4:11, I do not have the gift of evangelism either; but I don't condemn people so quickly. I learned just about anyone could be on God's elect list until the last moments of their death.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

‘No. The rapture is the catching up for those who are alive and remain.

The resurrection is for those who have died.

So in 1 Cor. 15:52, when it says we will be changed, ( both dead in Christ and alive in Christ), are you claiming that is not the resurrection? Sorry but that is the resurrection. Harpazo just means the resurrected will be caught up into heaven. Jesus was resurrected and walked out of the tomb, remained for awhile - He wasn't raptured. So on a twinkling, we'll be changed ( resurrected) where we are standing, sitting or laying down and sleeping, then we'll be caught up. Will we float up as some illustrations describe it or just disappear quickly and be instantly in the clouds with the Lord - I don't know. Either way, we will be resurrected.

 

[ScottA]

This question was asked AI: If the Rapture of the Church occurred with over 2 billion people taken out of the Great Tribulation that just started and were caught up into Heaven, what advice would you give those left behind?

AI answer:

"Seek salvation and endure persecution

• Repent and put your faith in Jesus: The Bible states that salvation will still be possible during the Tribulation. A great multitude of people from every nation will come to faith during this time. Your first step should be to repent of your sins and trust in Jesus Christ as your savior.
• Understand the cost: Accepting Christ during the Tribulation will likely come at a heavy price. The Antichrist will demand worship and allegiance, and many new believers will be persecuted and killed for their faith. The Bible says, "the one who endures to the end will be saved" (Matthew 24:13).
• Refuse the Mark of the Beast: The book of Revelation warns that anyone who takes the Mark of the Beast will be subject to God's wrath. No matter the hardship—including an inability to buy or sell—you must refuse this mark on your hand or forehead.

Prepare practically and spiritually

• Find a Bible: Bibles will become extremely rare, and you will need to find one to understand God's plan and promises. Seek a physical copy, as electronics may fail or be used for control.
• Avoid the new world religion: Do not attend any churches that remain, as they are believed to be controlled by the False Prophet. This false religion will promote deception and false miracles. Seek other true believers for underground fellowship instead.
• Leave urban areas: Jesus advised those in Judea to flee to the mountains to escape persecution. Large cities and populated areas will likely be dangerous and tightly controlled by the Antichrist's forces.

Do not despair

• Recognize the deception: The world will be flooded with propaganda and false explanations for the disappearance of millions of people. Do not believe these lies, such as stories of alien abductions.
• Trust in God's provision: While life will be extremely difficult, the Bible gives accounts of God protecting and providing for his followers during times of severe trial. Seek wisdom and trust that God will help you endure.
• Share the message with others: Your survival through faith can serve as a testament to others. Though you will need to be vigilant, you can help guide other people toward salvation.
• Keep your eyes on the end: The Tribulation is not the end of the story. After this period, Jesus Christ will return in power and glory to establish His kingdom and bring the final defeat of evil."

_________<<<&<<<__<<________

Actually, I couldn't have summed it up better - not bad!
So the prize of eternal salvation is waiting for whosoever calls out to Jesus and asks for forgiveness and puts their faith in Him. Though you will likely suffer and die, you'll be saved.

No one is going to be "Left Behind." That is the thinking of men.

We all go, "but each in his own order", and by the nature of eternity--we all arrive TOGETHER.

 

[amigo de christo]

I don't see any wheat fields around where I live, but can imagine that some have fewer tares than others depending on how they car for their crops. I likened it to a lawn which everyone can relate to. The weeds can be numerous unless you subdue them, rip them out by the roots. But every year they sprout up. So it is with churches. Philadelphia type church has all faithful congregants. Much care and attention given. But then in other churches less loving, careful and obedient, tares multiply. Still you don't throw out the baby with the dirty bath water.

if that baby is named ecunemical , YOU DO T HROW it out and fast too .
The time now is and has come
that if any ones meeting place is in any way , in any shape , even in any form preaching ecuminecal unity
GET THEM ALL OUT of there . ITS ALL COMING DOWN on THE DAY OF THE LORD GOD ALL MIGHTY and THE LAMB .
This delusion is a highly sneaky highly deceptive one .
No one here can say the blood of them is on my hands . I WARNED folks .
So allow me to say it once more .
IF your meeting place of christains IS IN ANY way
connected too , even supports the leaders of such a movement
GET OUT and take all with you that you can on the way OUT .
THIS IS A DELUSION , unlikes the which i have ever seen in my entire life . AND ITS SUCKING
all the decieved within christendom with all them decieved relgions to merge and find common ground .
IT IS OF THE DEVIL . HE is its father , His bride the harlot is its mother .
FOR the sake of all , GET THEM OUT . GET THEM OUT .

 

[Truth7t7]

rebuilder 454 said:
I 100% belive Jesus will return on a horse with millions of horses with saints mounted on them as seen in Rev 19.
Rev 14:14 is not and can not be that return of rev 19.
Impossible.
So the "one coming" fallacy is laid to rest?
Acts 1 " like manner" return is the "rapture coming" ( MAIN HARVEST)
Preceeded by FIRSTFRUITS JESUS.
( again , main harvest, grain harvest)
Rev 14 14 is JEWISH HARVEST.
Preceeded by FIRSTFRUIT JEWS.
( 144,000 OF THEM)
(Fruit harvest)
Firstfruit Jews is not nor can it be FIRSTFRUITS JESUS.""


QUOTE by 7t7;
""What You Believe Has Absolutely Nothing To Do With Biblical Truth, You Run From The Fact "Fire" In God's Wrath Is Seen In Revelation 14:18-19 At The Lord's Return "Why"?"""

Lol.
I believe Jesus returns on horses because the bible says so.
Your response ;
" what you believe has nothing to do...."

Really????
So under your Bible wisdom, believing what is plain and factual in the bible does not matter???

You falsely portray a harmless Jesus sitting on a cloud in Revelation 14:14 at the second coming out of context, Why do you run from explaining the "Fire" and "God's Wrath" seen in Revelation 14:18-19?

You conveniently forgot to mention Verses 18-19 "Why"? "Smiles"!

It's exactly the very same fire seen throughout scripture at the Lord's second coming Luke 17:29-30 being just one example, Jesus returns in fire (The End)

Revelation 14:18-19KJV
18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

 

[Davy]

I do not have to show and prove that the word "soul" describes something temporarily physical, but for sure YOU ARE trying to show and prove that the word "soul" describes something permanently spiritual.

A living soul is an autonomous being of flesh and blood, that requires Oxygen on a continual basis, aka "the breath of life", in order to maintain its temporary existence as a living soul.
However, if there is no continual access to Oxygenated air, aka "the breath of life", the flesh and blood being, that BECAME a temporary living soul, shall suddenly BECOME a permanent DEAD soul.

I well know, per God's written Word, what the soul is. And I know you CONTRADICT YOURSELF away from the Scriptures. Out of one side of your mouth you claim you disagree with the Jewish tradition they have about Genesis 2:7, and then out of the other side of your mouth you claim it means the soul is of a 'physical' nature, which means exactly what the deceived Jews believe about it., i.e., that the soul is made up of material flesh matter. It is not. The soul is from that OTHER DIMENSION OF SPIRIT.

The 'breath' of Life that God's Word is speaking of in Genesis 2:7 represents SPIRIT... not flesh matter.

Ps 16:10
10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
KJV

Soul in the Old Testament is the Hebrew word nephesh 5315. It is the equivalent of Greek psuche in The New Testament...


NT:5590
psuche (psoo-khay'); from NT:5594; breath, i.e. (by implication) spirit, abstractly or concretely (the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from NT:4151, which is the rational and immortal soul; and on the other from NT:2222, which is mere vitality, even of plants: these terms thus exactly correspond respectively to the Hebrew OT:5315, OT:7307 and OT:2416):

KJV - heart (+-ily), life, mind, soul, us, you.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006, 2010 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

NT examples...

Matt 10:28
28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him Which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
KJV

If the soul is a temporary flesh material thing, then how is it that Jesus showed above that if the flesh body is killed, the soul isn't? And how is it that the soul can be destroyed in hell, which hell (or lake of fire) is in the realm of the heavenly dimension?

You're wanting to interpret the word 'soul' like the idea of a life-giving force that even plants and animals have. That spirit idea is about the material matter of breathing air of this earth. Or didn't you know that earthly air is made up of material matter? But that is NOT the 'breath of life' being mentioned in Genesis 2:7, which is pointing to one's soul with spirit placed inside Adam's flesh body. That is why Elijah prayed that the soul of the woman's son would return to his flesh body and live again. Where did his soul go? And where did it return to his flesh body from?

Now here's a confusion tale for you about the ancient Greeks. They believed one's soul/spirit came from the sun. They called it 'nous' in the Greek, and that it is emitted as little particles in the sun's rays into the breath of the air that we breath. But that is a pagan doctrine of the Greeks, and actually has ties to ancient Egypt who worshiped the sun. Both the sun and the air we breath are part of this earthly material dimension, not the dimension of Spirit. So even though Genesis 2:7 uses the word "breath", it actually is speaking about the operation of that dimension of Spirit affecting Adam's flesh to cause him to become a living soul, i.e., a soul living in a flesh shell dwelling upon this earth in this earthy dimension.

You simply are like the many who haven't yet understood about the two different operations of the two dimensions of existence written in God's Word, the earthly vs. the heavenly.

Heb 4:12
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
KJV

1. our soul is our person, and not just simply 'air', although it comes and goes in the flesh like the 'breath'. Jesus revealed this in John 3. When the life of a flesh body leaves that flesh body, one's soul with spirit is what leaves it.

2. spirit - is actually about our OTHER body, our spiritual body that Apostle Paul taught about in 2 Cor.5. We each have another body not made of material matter dwelling inside our flesh body, connected with our soul (person), by an invisible "silver cord" shown in Ecclesiastes 12:5-7. When that "silver cord" is severed, then the soul and one's spirit body leave the flesh body. The flesh goes back to the dust of the earth where it came from, but one's spirit with soul goes back to God Who gave. And it retains... its individuality when it goes back to God in the heavenly. That is why Paul taught to be absent from the body is to be present with The Lord.

3. flesh body - a shell only for our spirit image and soul to dwell in. Paul used the symbol of an earthly tabernacle to describe the flesh body per 2 Corinthians 5. If the soul and spirit were made up of material flesh... like our flesh body, like you are claiming... then Paul would have never used a tabernacle analogy. A tabernacle is something one dwells... inside. Paul used that concept because the soul with spirit dwells... inside the flesh body, which means the soul and spirit ARE NOT MATERIAL MATTER at any... point.

John 3:6
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
KJV

 

[Davy]

Don't imply I haven't read those scriptures, I know what they say and mean.
I thought and was mistaken that you implied the two churches were the two witnesses. You went all through the explanation of two candlesticks and went into this long discussion referencing the church as being the two candlesticks.
Your post #290 quite: "Those two candlesticks, or Churches, represent Christ's very elect. They will prophesy in many nations along with the time of the "two witnesses" in Jerusalem."

Well, you still did not read what I wrote close enough, because what I've been saying all along about the "two candlesticks" is that the 'candlesticks' represent the Churches according to our Lord Jesus at the end of Revelation 1. So neither you or I can change that, Lord Jesus set that representation in stone.

Thus mention of the "two candlesticks" with the conjunction "and" means two Churches will also prophesy against the beast like the "two witnesses" in Jerusalem will.

1. "two witnesses" = two specific men that will prophesy in Jerusalem against the beast, and have power of plagues like Moses and Aaron of The Old Testament in Egypt.

2. "two candlesticks" = Christ's two elect Churches He had no rebuke for, that dwell in MANY NATIONS on earth, that will be delivered up to give a Testimony for Jesus against the beast...

Luke 21:12-22
12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for My name's sake.
13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony.
14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:
15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.
16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.
17 And ye shall be hated of all men for My name's sake.
18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
19 In your patience possess ye your souls.
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
KJV

 

[Davy]

However, the fact that the two churches (and types represented throughout the ages), Philadelphia and Symrna, both faithful did not receive rebuke, does not mean the rest of the churches did not contain faithful Christians, nor were dead or not elect. They contained tares among them.
God requires repentance to all throughout our lives. We need constant chastising from Him as we sometimes get off the path. Those churches received correction and likely many repented that is our story. Some are strong in the faith and some weak. Some churches teach false doctrines, but it doesn't mean the whole church is rotten, nor that the congregants adherent to those errors.
Still, all in all, I disagree with the post-trib view.

I believe The Bible about the timing of Christ's coming and gathering of His faithful Church, which Lord Jesus showed will be AFTER... the tribulation (Matthew 24:29 and Mark 13:24-27).

Regardless, the point still is... Jesus had NO rebuke for only two Churches, and Rev.11 shows those represent the "two candlesticks" that will prophesy with God's "two witnesses" at the end. This coming event which will happen at the end 'during'... the "great tribulation", is why Apostle Peter quoted from Joel 2 pointing to it...

Acts 2:16-21
16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

When Peter said the above, he was showing the manifesting of the 'cloven tongue' on Pentecost was an 'example' of the Joel 2 prophecy for the end.

17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of My Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18 And on My servants and on My handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
KJV

Those parts in red involve the manifesting of the 'cloven tongue' at the very end of this world by those of Christ's elect who will be delivered up and give a Testimony for Jesus against the beast. In Mark 13, Jesus told these to not premeditate what to say in that 'hour', but to speak what The Holy Spirit gives to speak.

It will be that... prophesying by GOD through His delivered up servants, along with the "two witnesses" in Jerusalem, that will cause the devil to ascend from the bottomless pit and kill the "two witnesses". It will usher in the defeat of Satan and his host on earth. This is actually what Apostle Paul was pointing to in Ephesians 6 when he told us to have the whole Armor of God on, so as to stand in the "evil day". That "evil day" Paul spoke of is the coming time of "great tribulation" when some of us will be delivered up for refusing the "mark of the beast".

 

[JLB]

So in 1 Cor. 15:52, when it says we will be changed, ( both dead in Christ and alive in Christ), are you claiming that is not the resurrection?

I am stating that one is the "catching up" and therefore changing those who are alive and remain. This is referred to by many as the rapture.

The other is the resurrection of the dead in Christ.

So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. 1 Corinthians 15:42

Both will be changed.

 

[David in NJ]

The Rapture is the resurrection for those who are living or dead in Christ. We are all caught up inti heaven to meet the Lord.

Did you know that reversing scripture is what satanists do???

The rapture is only for "the alive remaining saints" after the Tribulation = Matthew ch24 and 1 Thess 4:13-18

The rapture CANNOT and WILL NOT take place until AFTER the 2nd Coming and the Resurrection of the saints who died.

The HOLY SPIRIT Says the 2nd Coming and the Resurrection preceeds the rapture = 1 Thess 4:13-18

precede /prĭ-sēd′/

intransitive verb​

1. To come, exist, or occur before in time.
   "A lecture preceded the movie."
2. To be in front of or prior to in order.
   "A precedes B in the alphabet."
3. To go in advance of.
   "A marching band preceded the float."

JESUS says to you: "Believe the Truth and the Truth will set you free"

 

[Earburner]

I well know, per God's written Word, what the soul is. And I know you CONTRADICT YOURSELF away from the Scriptures. Out of one side of your mouth you claim you disagree with the Jewish tradition they have about Genesis 2:7, and then out of the other side of your mouth you claim it means the soul is of a 'physical' nature, which means exactly what the deceived Jews believe about it., i.e., that the soul is made up of material flesh matter. It is not. The soul is from that OTHER DIMENSION OF SPIRIT.

The 'breath' of Life that God's Word is speaking of in Genesis 2:7 represents SPIRIT... not flesh matter.

Ps 16:10
10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
KJV

Soul in the Old Testament is the Hebrew word nephesh 5315. It is the equivalent of Greek psuche in The New Testament...


NT:5590
psuche (psoo-khay'); from NT:5594; breath, i.e. (by implication) spirit, abstractly or concretely (the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from NT:4151, which is the rational and immortal soul; and on the other from NT:2222, which is mere vitality, even of plants: these terms thus exactly correspond respectively to the Hebrew OT:5315, OT:7307 and OT:2416):

KJV - heart (+-ily), life, mind, soul, us, you.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006, 2010 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

NT examples...

Matt 10:28
28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him Which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
KJV

If the soul is a temporary flesh material thing, then how is it that Jesus showed above that if the flesh body is killed, the soul isn't? And how is it that the soul can be destroyed in hell, which hell (or lake of fire) is in the realm of the heavenly dimension?

You're wanting to interpret the word 'soul' like the idea of a life-giving force that even plants and animals have. That spirit idea is about the material matter of breathing air of this earth. Or didn't you know that earthly air is made up of material matter? But that is NOT the 'breath of life' being mentioned in Genesis 2:7, which is pointing to one's soul with spirit placed inside Adam's flesh body. That is why Elijah prayed that the soul of the woman's son would return to his flesh body and live again. Where did his soul go? And where did it return to his flesh body from?

Now here's a confusion tale for you about the ancient Greeks. They believed one's soul/spirit came from the sun. They called it 'nous' in the Greek, and that it is emitted as little particles in the sun's rays into the breath of the air that we breath. But that is a pagan doctrine of the Greeks, and actually has ties to ancient Egypt who worshiped the sun. Both the sun and the air we breath are part of this earthly material dimension, not the dimension of Spirit. So even though Genesis 2:7 uses the word "breath", it actually is speaking about the operation of that dimension of Spirit affecting Adam's flesh to cause him to become a living soul, i.e., a soul living in a flesh shell dwelling upon this earth in this earthy dimension.

You simply are like the many who haven't yet understood about the two different operations of the two dimensions of existence written in God's Word, the earthly vs. the heavenly.

Heb 4:12
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
KJV

1. our soul is our person, and not just simply 'air', although it comes and goes in the flesh like the 'breath'. Jesus revealed this in John 3. When the life of a flesh body leaves that flesh body, one's soul with spirit is what leaves it.

2. spirit - is actually about our OTHER body, our spiritual body that Apostle Paul taught about in 2 Cor.5. We each have another body not made of material matter dwelling inside our flesh body, connected with our soul (person), by an invisible "silver cord" shown in Ecclesiastes 12:5-7. When that "silver cord" is severed, then the soul and one's spirit body leave the flesh body. The flesh goes back to the dust of the earth where it came from, but one's spirit with soul goes back to God Who gave. And it retains... its individuality when it goes back to God in the heavenly. That is why Paul taught to be absent from the body is to be present with The Lord.

3. flesh body - a shell only for our spirit image and soul to dwell in. Paul used the symbol of an earthly tabernacle to describe the flesh body per 2 Corinthians 5. If the soul and spirit were made up of material flesh... like our flesh body, like you are claiming... then Paul would have never used a tabernacle analogy. A tabernacle is something one dwells... inside. Paul used that concept because the soul with spirit dwells... inside the flesh body, which means the soul and spirit ARE NOT MATERIAL MATTER at any... point.

John 3:6
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
KJV

OK, enough with the shenanigans of mixing scriptures describing the Holy Spirit with that of "a living soul".

I will now be more direct concerning that WHICH IS "The breath of life".

In Adam's creation, which do you understand the "the breath of life" to be?
1. The Holy Spirit of God.
2. Oxygenated AIR.
3. Other, please briefly explain.

 

[Earburner]

OK, enough with the shenanigans of mixing scriptures describing the Holy Spirit with that of "a living soul".

I will now be more direct concerning that WHICH IS "The breath of life".

In Adam's creation, which do you understand the "the breath of life" to be?
1. The Holy Spirit of God.
2. Oxygenated AIR.
3. Other, please briefly explain.

??
I didn't see the single choice that you made from the three selections I listed. Please make a choice from my selection in post #339.