No Escape : From Hell

[walter]

continued . . .


WRONG.

Col. 1:16-17
FOR BY HIM ALL THINGS WERE CREATED, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.

Gen. 1:26
“Let US create man in OUR image"

- In Rev 1:8 and Rev. 21:5, GOD specifically calls Himself, the “Alpha and the Omega.”
- In Rev. 22:12-16, we see JESUS proclaim:
“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.”

Indeed, GOD created all things – the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
You can't have TWO different Beings called the "Alpha and the Omega" . . .What is “the sin atoning sacrifice of Jesus”? If he is God, then the sacrifice he made was way above what was required to fulfill God’s Law...”an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a life for a life”. God’s law demanded equivalency, so Jesus had to be the exact equivalent of Adam in order to pay the debt that Adam left for his children. This is why he was called “the last Adam”. (1 Cor 15:45)

So then, what’s your problem?
Jesus IS fully man.

YOUR problem with Him is that He is also FULLY God. This isn’t a man-made tradition – this is Scriptural FACT . . .
Isaiah 7:14, Isaiah 9:6, Matt. 4:7, John 1:1, John 1:3, John 8:58, John 10:30, John 14:9, John 20:28, 2 Corinthians 4:4, Phil. 2:6, Col. 2:9, 1 Tim. 3:16, Heb. 1:8, Titus 2:13, Rev. 22:13

GOD says . . .
Rev. 1:8
“I am the Alpha and the Omega.”

Rev. 21:6
“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End.”

JESUS says . . .
Rev. 22:13
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End".

Ergo, Jesus is GOD . . .

He's going to return in the SAME way that He ascended (Acts 1:11).

WRONG.

Both Peter and Paul Baptized entire households (Acts 10:1-49, 11:13-14, Acts 16:23-33, 1 Cor. 1:16).
A first century household typically included parents, grandparents, children (including infants) – and servants.

THIS is why it was unanimously written about by the Early Church Fathers.

WRONG on ALL counts . . .

First of all - I’ve NEVER been to a wedding OR a funeral where God and and/or Scripture were NOT invoked.

Secondly – 1st century Jewish weddings indeed included ritual.
There were the ritual blessings. There were also prayers offered by family and guests. There were blessings over the wine. The couple also recited blessings of commitment and sanctification.

It may not have resembled a typical 20th century American wedding – but it absolutely included religious ritual.

Another Scripturally-bankrupt claim . . .

The Bread of Life discourse in John 6 is about as explicit as it gets when it comes to the Eucharist:

John 6:53-56
“Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.

Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.”

It might interest you that the usual Greek word used for human eating is “phagon”. However, this is NOT the word used in these passages. John uses the word, “trogon”, which means, to munch or to gnaw - like an animal. Jesus was again using hyperbole as he often did to drive his point across so that the crowd would understand that he was NOT speaking metaphorically. He meant what he said.

Just as the Paschal Lamb was to be eaten, it is also true for the Lamb of God.

Which is exactly why many of His followers left Him in John 6:66 and returned to their former way of life. They couldn’t handle what He was telling them. YOU remind me of them . . .

And it wouldn’t “break” God’s law ANY more than eating shellfish or pork - which was now approved in the New Covenant (Acts 10:9-16).


The EASIEST way to pick out a counterfeit, quasi-Christian is to simply point to the one that claims, “EVERYNODY else has been ‘wrong’ for 1800 years - until WE got here” . . .

I am half Italian and my ancestry comes from Italy, I remember my Mom telling me about a time when she was a young girl and her father took her to a restaurant and they had something to eat with some kind of meat, and when her grandmother heard about this she was very upset with her because they are not supposed to eat me on Friday.

Since Jesus sacrificed his flesh for us on Good Friday, some refrain from eating flesh meat in his honor on Fridays.

I think there are many many fine people that are Catholics and I love my neighbor no matter what they believe to be true. Not eating meat on Friday makes sense for the reasons they believe this, but at the same time isn't it okay that people can also choose to do something that is explained specifically in detail in the Bible?

Some people do things because their reasons make good sense.. and I commend them for doing what they feel is right.

Myself I like to read the words of Jesus.. What he took the time to speak about is more important to me then what somebody feels makes good sense.. Especially when Jesus words agree with something the Apostles wrote down.

I feel strongly about listening to the words Jesus actually spoke and I am sure you feel strongly about what you believe in, and I command you for doing what you feel is right.

 

[walter]

 

[BreadOfLife]

I am half Italian and my ancestry comes from Italy, I remember my Mom telling me about a time when she was a young girl and her father took her to a restaurant and they had something to eat with some kind of meat, and when her grandmother heard about this she was very upset with her because they are not supposed to eat me on Friday.

Since Jesus sacrificed his flesh for us on Good Friday, some refrain from eating flesh meat in his honor on Fridays.

I think there are many many fine people that are Catholics and I love my neighbor no matter what they believe to be true. Not eating meat on Friday makes sense for the reasons they believe this, but at the same time isn't it okay that people can also choose to do something that is explained specifically in detail in the Bible?

Some people do things because their reasons make good sense.. and I commend them for doing what they feel is right.

Myself I like to read the words of Jesus.. What he took the time to speak about is more important to me then what somebody feels makes good sense.. Especially when Jesus words agree with something the Apostles wrote down.

I feel strongly about listening to the words Jesus actually spoke and I am sure you feel strongly about what you believe in, and I command you for doing what you feel is right.

Abstaining from mean on Fridays is a matter discipline – not a doctrine.

Some people have a daily devotional prayer time. Others, twice a week or every other day. Bible study, fasting, skipping lunch onca week to help the poor are also disciplines. Mortification of the flesh is a way of strengthening our faith and resistance to temptation.

Paul practiced mortification (Romans 8:13, Col. 3:5, Gal. 5:24).

Rom. 8:13
"If you live after the flesh, you shall die, but if through the spirit you mortify the deeds of the flesh, you shall live.”

 

[Aunty Jane]

What are you talking about??

You let men in a congregation JUDGE you?

Were you not shown in a Catholic Bible that those who are leaders in the church have a responsibility to judge those inside the local congregation, whilst God judged those outside of it?
It was pretty specific. God will judge the judges. (Heb 13:17)

Can't get your mind out of the JW track.

Looks like you are stuck on a track of your own....pot/kettle?

I'm talking about JUDGING AFTER YOUR DEATH...
or if YOU prefer since you believe in soul sleep...

AT THE LAST JUDGMENT.

What I showed you was nothing to do with the last judgment.....that is the time for the judgment of all....the one God will do through his appointed representative, which is what Christ has always been, backed up by the most powerful military force in existence.

Not replying to the rest because, as ususal, you're off on different rabbit holes.

All rabbit holes lead to the same destination.....the church system has no idea what genuine Christianity looks like....it’s so far removed from the original, that most accept what they are taught without question....
That is exactly what the devil wants...those he can easily manipulate.....and the Bible says that he has the majority believing in his counterfeit religious system. Christian or non-Christian....doesn’t really matter, because if we believe what is not true, we are no better off than the pagans. Same deceit...same deceiver...same destination. (Matt 7:13-14)

YOU are NOT following orthodox Christianity and it's been shown to you why ad nauseum.

Any NEW RELIGION will not be following orthodoxy.

Just as Jesus did not come to start a “new religion”, but to clean up the old one with the same God....and to show the “lost” ones how to find that God again by withdrawing from the Pharisees who did not teach God’s truth, but who had introduced man-made doctrines to lead the people “away” from God rather than “to” him. (Matt 15:7-9)

Just as the Christians had to separate from apostate Judaism....so in this “time of the end”, those who want to serve the true God, as he has commanded through the teachings of his son, we need to remove ourselves from any religion who teaches the false religious tenets of original Babylon.

All of Christendom’s doctrines are a product of those ancient Babylonian beliefs that crept into man’s thinking after the flood.....all false worship has the same basic beliefs.....a multiplicity of gods.....belief in conscious life after death.....and a place of eternal bliss in heaven, or of eternal conscious torture in a hell of flames......this is what a corrupted church system also adopted...a complete apostasy as Jesus said would happen. Christendom pretends that it can’t possibly be them....Catholicism is simply the “mother ship”.

Jehovah’s Witnesses are not a “new religion” but a return to what the first century Christians believed and practiced. I do not know by what stretch of whose imagination that people today can look at the divided and bickering church system and see Jesus anywhere.....they all ignore him and excuse themselves for doing so.

Their excuses will be rejected when Christ comes as judge....he will tell us all then, who belong to him and who don’t. (Matt 7:21-23)

You should write a book.

I guess with all the posts I have written in the years that I have been here.....I probably have....but nothing I post is devoid of Scriptural backing. The Bible is my only reference....the sole basis for all of my beliefs.

 

[walter]

Abstaining from mean on Fridays is a matter discipline – not a doctrine.

Some people have a daily devotional prayer time. Others, twice a week or every other day. Bible study, fasting, skipping lunch onca week to help the poor are also disciplines. Mortification of the flesh is a way of strengthening our faith and resistance to temptation.

Paul practiced mortification (Romans 8:13, Col. 3:5, Gal. 5:24).

Rom. 8:13
"If you live after the flesh, you shall die, but if through the spirit you mortify the deeds of the flesh, you shall live.

Myself I like to obey Jesus or the Apostles words recorded in the Bible. Not something else The End.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Mortification of the flesh is a way of strengthening our faith and resistance to temptation.

Paul practiced mortification (Romans 8:13, Col. 3:5, Gal. 5:24).

Rom. 8:13
"If you live after the flesh, you shall die, but if through the spirit you mortify the deeds of the flesh, you shall live.”

I had to look that up because it’s not something that was practised in first century Christianity, but something that was adopted by “the church” later to make an outward show of something that was in internal struggle, in extreme self-flagulation and deprivation...

It is defined as.....
“Mortification of the flesh is an act by which an individual or group seeks to mortify or deaden their sinful nature, as a part of the process of sanctification. In Christianity, mortification of the flesh is undertaken in order to repent for sins...”

“Among votarists, traditional forms of physical mortification are chain cilices and hair-shirts. In some of its more severe forms, it can mean using a discipline to flagellate oneself and a spugna to beat oneself.” (WIKI)

Nowhere does the Bible suggest what the Catholic church infers by their extreme definition of the word “thanatoō” Which simply means “to put to death”.....it is completely metaphorical.

Read that verse again and substitute the words “put to death” for “mortify” and understand that Paul made no reference to any form of physical self-punishment.....even when they were fasting, Jesus told his disciples not to make themselves a spectacle to others, but to grease their faces with oil so that no one would know that they were fasting, except God. (Matt 6:17-18)

The internal struggle was necessary, but an extreme outward show of it was just bragging. Done to be seen by others.....(Matt 23:5-15)

 

[BreadOfLife]

Myself I like to obey Jesus or the Apostles words recorded in the Bible. Not something else The End.

So - if you're a Sola Scripturist - can you show me where Jesus and the Apostles taught this? I must have missed that verse . . .

While you're at it - can you show me where they listed the Books that belong in the New Testament? It was the Catholic church who declared the Canon in the 4th century . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

I had to look that up because it’s not something that was practised in first century Christianity,

And that is a LIE because I just showed you Biblical proof of Paul practicing mortification . . .

but something that was adopted by “the church” later to make an outward show of something that was in internal struggle, in extreme self-flagulation and deprivation...

It is defined as.....
“Mortification of the flesh is an act by which an individual or group seeks to mortify or deaden their sinful nature, as a part of the process of sanctification. In Christianity, mortification of the flesh is undertaken in order to repent for sins...”

“Among votarists, traditional forms of physical mortification are chain cilices and hair-shirts. In some of its more severe forms, it can mean using a discipline to flagellate oneself and a spugna to beat oneself.” (WIKI)

Nowhere does the Bible suggest what the Catholic church infers by their extreme definition of the word “thanatoō” Which simply means “to put to death”.....it is completely metaphorical.

Read that verse again and substitute the words “put to death” for “mortify” and understand that Paul made no reference to any form of physical self-punishment.....even when they were fasting, Jesus told his disciples not to make themselves a spectacle to others, but to grease their faces with oil so that no one would know that they were fasting, except God. (Matt 6:17-18)

The internal struggle was necessary, but an extreme outward show of it was just bragging. Done to be seen by others.....(Matt 23:5-15)

Mortification of the deeds of the flesh, as Paul explained is to DENY one’s self. It's about self-control and self-discipline.
It has nothing to do with self-flagellation. THIS is why I said that these anti-Catholic threads are filled with ignorance by ill-informed people like YOU . . .

1 Cor. 9:27
But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified..

Not only is this NOT forbidden or is it a “Catholic invention” – it is a noble endeavor. It pleases God to see us faithfully striving to follow Him.

 

[walter]

So - if you're a Sola Scripturist - can you show me where Jesus and the Apostles taught this? I must have missed that verse . . .

While you're at it - can you show me where they listed the Books that belong in the New Testament? It was the Catholic church who declared the Canon in the 4th century . . .

#1. I support my fundamental important beliefs with only the Bible to ensure I get ancient original theology
John 3:36, 8:31, 14:21, 17:17; Matt 7:24-25; 2 Timothy 3:16-17; Luke 8:21; Romans 15:4; Hebrews 4:12; Matthew 4:4; Acts 17:11,
2 Thess 1:8-9

 

[BreadOfLife]

#1. I support my fundamental important beliefs with only the Bible to ensure I get ancient original theology
John 8:31, 14:21, 17: 17; Matt 7:24-25; 2 Timothy 3:16-17; John 17:17; Luke 8:21; Romans 15:4; Hebrews 4:12; Matthew 4:4; Acts 17:11, 2 Thess 1:8-9

Okay - but we weren't discussing a "fundamental important belief".
We were discussing abstaining from meat on Fridays - a discipline . . .

 

[walter]

Okay - but we weren't discussing a "fundamental important belief".
We were discussing abstaining from meat on Fridays - a discipline . . .

I think it's a good idea not to eat meat, I actually don't like to eat meat any day of the week.. But did Jesus or an Apostle say specifically not to eat meat on Friday?

 

[Aunty Jane]

Okay - but we weren't discussing a "fundamental important belief".
We were discussing abstaining from meat on Fridays - a discipline . . .

Are you serious? All those people who went to hell for eating meat on Friday.....did God grant them a pardon and let them out? Are they in heaven now?

Where did Jesus tell us not to eat meat on Friday? The apostles didn’t either.....Paul told us that there is nothing we cannot eat now as dietary restrictions placed on the Jews were not binding on gentiles.
I am a gentile...what about you?

 

[BreadOfLife]

I think it's a good idea not to eat meat, I actually don't like to eat meat any day of the week.. But did Jesus or an Apostle say specifically not to eat meat on Friday?

Nope - but, neither did they say that the Bible is our SOLE Authority.

However - they DID say that the CHURCH is our final earthly Authority (Matt. 16:18-9, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:112-15, John 20:21-22).

 

[BreadOfLife]

Are you serious? All those people who went to hell for eating meat on Friday.....did God grant them a pardon and let them out? Are they in heaven now?

The Church has never condemned anybody to Hell.
That’s yet another ignorant anti-Catholic myth . . .

Where did Jesus tell us not to eat meat on Friday? The apostles didn’t either.....Paul told us that there is nothing we cannot eat now as dietary restrictions placed on the Jews were not binding on gentiles.
I am a gentile...what about you?

Abstaining from meat on Fridays isn’t a “dietary restriction” because meat is NOT a forbidden food. It is a discipline, not a doctrine or law.

Anyway - where did Jesus ever tell us NOT to celebrate His birth – or His Resurrection?
Where did He teach that Scripture is our SOLE Authority?

 

[walter]

Nope - but, neither did they say that the Bible is our SOLE Authority.

However - they DID say that the CHURCH is our final earthly Authority (Matt. 16:18-9, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:112-15, John 20:21-22).

Thank you for the conversation, I appreciate your input, you love Christ Jesus and you love his Father and you respect the words in the Bible we have this in common because so do I, we believe differently, but we both believe in a afterlife.

And I feel in the next life God will make things clear and a lot of people will become friends, instead of debaters.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Thank you for the conversation, I appreciate your input, you love Christ Jesus and you love his Father and you respect the words in the Bible we have this in common because so do I, we believe differently, but we both believe in a afterlife.

And thankyou, as well.

And I feel in the next life God will make things clear and a lot of people will become friends, instead of debaters.

Amen to that . . .

 

[Aunty Jane]

It was the Catholic church who declared the Canon in the 4th century . . .

That’s what they claim, but tell me who else accepts the apocryphal works as belonging in God’s word when they are not included in the Bibles used outside of the Catholic church?...and it was because their contents are contradictions of the true Bible books (that the majority of people read today) that they were rejected by scholars as Scripture. So much for the claim that the Catholic church declared the canon. Their canon was out of ammunition right from the get go....

It took “the church” over 300 years to figure out what belonged in the NT? Why do you suppose that was?

And that is a LIE because I just showed you Biblical proof of Paul practicing mortification . . .

Oh please.....Paul did not practice what Jesus and the other apostles never taught.....it’s the definition of “mortification” that is the problem...it never meant what the Catholic church inferred that it did... the disciples were not to make a show of their fasting.

Mortification of the deeds of the flesh, as Paul explained is to DENY one’s self. It's about self-control and self-discipline.

Metaphorically putting something “to death” is to “deaden” the desires of the flesh.....not the normal everyday desires like eating and cultivating godly qualities (which all Christians should do) but the ones that would induce someone to commit sin....like a diabetic shopping in a candy store. Stay away from temptation.

It has nothing to do with self-flagellation. THIS is why I said that these anti-Catholic threads are filled with ignorance by ill-informed people like YOU . . .

Again, these extreme measures are things practiced by Catholics in some nations, and also seen in some Buddhist practices. Extreme acts of self discipline achieve nothing beneficial if what Jesus recommended is that we go out to the people with a witness for them about God’s kingdom. (Matt 24:14; 28:19-20)
The Bible recommends taking nothing to extremes but maintains balance in all things.

How is it “balance” with Jesus admonition to preach and yet we see priests and nuns cloistered away in monastic lifestyles taking vows of silence.....the very thing we are NOT supposed to do.

1 Cor. 9:27
But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified..

Discipline is correction, not necessarily punishment. What does punishing your body have to do with being qualified to be called a “Christian”? I see no such thing in Scripture.
Whatever struggles we have personally, God knows about them, and will assist us by means of his spirit but only if we work in harmony with our prayers. There is no consulting a man in a box to give us absolution so that we can resume the behavior and come back next week and ask forgiveness for that again.

Not only is this NOT forbidden or is it a “Catholic invention” – it is a noble endeavor. It pleases God to see us faithfully striving to follow Him.

No one said that discipline in unnecessary.....we all need it, but the RCC has taken many inconsequential things and turned them into mountains, whilst ignoring the mountains as if they don’t exist....

The Church has never condemned anybody to Hell.

Well, just threatening it was enough I guess, especially if they had that handy “get out of jail” card called the confessional.

It was your church that invented “hell”...or should I say, adopted it from the Greeks, along with immortality of the soul. It’s amazing what ended up as Catholic teaching that finds no place at all in original Christianity....I suppose you can thank the pope for that....he absolved you from following Scripture and put himself in Christ’s place...sitting on his throne in all his glorious robes....and dictating all your beliefs.

Are you seeing what non-Catholics see? I very much doubt it. Indoctrinated from birth and reinforced at church and school...how can they possibly entertain anything else?
Thankfully many do see the big picture, and have freed themselves from the shackles of man-made doctrines.

 

[GodsGrace]

Were you not shown in a Catholic Bible

You quoted Hebrews.

I'd like you to know that there's no such bible as a Catholic bible.

Unlike the JWs,,,Catholics use the exact same bible that Protestants use.

It's the JWs that had to print their own version,,,corrupted BTW , so it could sit their doctrine.


The following is from Gemini...it's short and to the point and accurate:


The New World Translation (NWT) differs from most Bibles primarily by inserting "Jehovah" (over 230 times) into the New Testament where "Lord" or "God" appears in the Greek text, reflecting Jehovah's Witness theology that Jesus is subordinate, not God; it also alters verses like John 1:1 ("the Word was a god") and adds "other" in Colossians 1:16-17 to deny Jesus's co-creator status, using different Greek source texts than KJV/NIV and aiming for literalness but criticized by scholars as doctrinally biased.

Key Differences Explained

• Divine Name (Jehovah):
  
  • NWT: Inserts "Jehovah" into the New Testament where the Greek word Kyrios (Lord) is used, arguing it reflects the original Hebrew divine name (YHWH).
  • Other Bibles: Translate Kyrios as "Lord," often in all caps (LORD) to denote YHWH in the Old Testament, but not in the New Testament.
• Nature of Jesus:
  
  • John 1:1: NWT translates as "the Word was a god," implying Jesus is a lesser deity, while most Bibles say "the Word was God".
  • Colossians 1:16-17: NWT adds "other," stating all "other" things were created by Christ, implying Jesus was created, not the creator.
• Source Texts:
  
  • NWT: Primarily uses Westcott & Hort Greek text but alters it to support JW doctrine; avoids the Textus Receptus used by KJV.
• Wording Changes:
  
  • Replaces terms like "long-suffering" with "patience" and "revelries" with "wild parties" for modern understanding.
  • Uses "impaled on a stake" instead of "crucified" to avoid misinterpretation.
• Doctrinal Bias:
  
  • Critics argue these changes aren't neutral translations but manipulations to align the text with Jehovah's Witness beliefs about Jesus's role and nature.

In essence, the NWT's distinctiveness stems from its unique theological framework, leading to significant textual alterations concerning Jesus's divinity and identity, a point of major contention with other Christian denominations.

that those who are leaders in the church have a responsibility to judge those inside the local congregation, whilst God judged those outside of it?
It was pretty specific. God will judge the judges. (Heb 13:17)

Looks like you are stuck on a track of your own....pot/kettle?

Not stuck on any track.
I discuss other topics you're stuck on the hatred of the CC.

What I showed you was nothing to do with the last judgment.....that is the time for the judgment of all....the one God will do through his appointed representative, which is what Christ has always been, backed up by the most powerful military force in existence.

EXACTLY!!

BUT
I was speaking about the last judgment.
You like to write...
but you don't like to read.

All rabbit holes lead to the same destination.....the church system has no idea what genuine Christianity looks like....it’s so far removed from the original, that most accept what they are taught without question....

We know what Christianity looks like....
and it's NOT a cult.

That is exactly what the devil wants...those he can easily manipulate.....and the Bible says that he has the majority believing in his counterfeit religious system. Christian or non-Christian....doesn’t really matter, because if we believe what is not true, we are no better off than the pagans. Same deceit...same deceiver...same destination. (Matt 7:13-14)

Just as Jesus did not come to start a “new religion”, but to clean up the old one with the same God....and to show the “lost” ones how to find that God again by withdrawing from the Pharisees who did not teach God’s truth, but who had introduced man-made doctrines to lead the people “away” from God rather than “to” him. (Matt 15:7-9)

This is so rediculous it requires no reply.
The JWs ARE A NEW RELIGION.
It does NOT reflect early Christianity.

You really should study up on some church history since you won't listen to anyone on here.

I do not know by what stretch of whose imagination that people today can look at the divided and bickering church system and see Jesus anywhere.....they all ignore him and excuse themselves for doing so.

Their excuses will be rejected when Christ comes as judge....he will tell us all then, who belong to him and who don’t. (Matt 7:21-23)

I guess with all the posts I have written in the years that I have been here.....I probably have....but nothing I post is devoid of Scriptural backing. The Bible is my only reference....the sole basis for all of my beliefs.

BTW,,,you never replied to my post no. 478.

Maybe you could write a paragraph or two in reply to my simple question?
You made a comment that makes no sense....you could explain it, maybe.

 

[GodsGrace]

Thank you for the conversation, I appreciate your input, you love Christ Jesus and you love his Father and you respect the words in the Bible we have this in common because so do I, we believe differently, but we both believe in a afterlife.

And I feel in the next life God will make things clear and a lot of people will become friends, instead of debaters.

Walter,
I don't know what your definiton of DEBATE is
BUT
A friend CAN be a debater of ours.

I could have a debate with you and still be your friend.
@Grailhunter and I do this all the time!

You're conflating a DEBATE
with an ARGUMENT.

 

[BreadOfLife]

That’s what they claim, but tell me who else accepts the apocryphal works as belonging in God’s word when they are not included in the Bibles used outside of the Catholic church?...and it was because their contents are contradictions of the true Bible books (that the majority of people read today) that they were rejected by scholars as Scripture. So much for the claim that the Catholic church declared the canon. Their canon was out of ammunition right from the get go....

No - it’s a fact . . .
Just because YOU close your eyes to the truth doesn’t mean it’s NOT true .
Time for a History Lesson . . .

The Synod of Rome (382) is where the canon was first formally identified – ALL 73 (not 66) Books.
- 11 years after that, it was confirmed at the Synod of Hippo (393).

- 4 years later, at the Council (or Synod) of Carthage (397), it was yet again confirmed. The bishops wrote at the end of their document, "But let Church beyond sea (Rome) be consulted about confirming this canon". There were 44 bishops, including St. Augustine who signed the document.

- 7 years later, in 405, in a letter from Pope Innocent I to Exsuperius, Bishop of Toulouse, he reiterated the canon.

- 14 years after that, at the 2nd Council (Synod) of Carthage (419) the canon was again formally confirmed.

The Canon of Scripture was officially closed at the Council of Trent in the 16th century because of the perversions happening within Protestantism and the random editing and deleting of books from the Canon.

It took “the church” over 300 years to figure out what belonged in the NT? Why do you suppose that was?

Apparently, you’re ignorant of the fact that there were MANY Books that were considered to be “Scripture” into the 4th century. Jesus didn’t leave us with a BOOK – He left us with a Church as our earthly Authority.

It was the Church, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit who decided which Books to include in the Canon. Jesus guaranteed that the Holy spirit would guide His Church to ALL Truth (John 16:12-15) – and this is a shining example of that promise.

Oh please.....Paul did not practice what Jesus and the other apostles never taught.....it’s the definition of “mortification” that is the problem...it never meant what the Catholic church inferred that it did... the disciples were not to make a show of their fasting.

Then you’re a LIAR.

I have repeatedly provided the verses that teach about mortification of the deeds of the flesh. If you want to ignore them – that’s YOUR prerogative.

Metaphorically putting something “to death” is to “deaden” the desires of the flesh.....not the normal everyday desires like eating and cultivating godly qualities (which all Christians should do) but the ones that would induce someone to commit sin....like a diabetic shopping in a candy store. Stay away from temptation.

Such as??
WHAT discipline induce one to sin?

Your posts are becoming increasingly psychotic . . .

Again, these extreme measures are things practiced by Catholics in some nations, and also seen in some Buddhist practices. Extreme acts of self discipline achieve nothing beneficial if what Jesus recommended is that we go out to the people with a witness for them about God’s kingdom. (Matt 24:14; 28:19-20)
The Bible recommends taking nothing to extremes but maintains balance in all things.

This is stupid – and YOU know it.
The Catholic Church does NOT teach “extreme” disciplines like self-flagellation.

You watch too many movies . . .

Discipline is correction, not necessarily punishment. What does punishing your body have to do with being qualified to be called a “Christian”? I see no such thing in Scripture.
Whatever struggles we have personally, God knows about them, and will assist us by means of his spirit but only if we work in harmony with our prayers. There is no consulting a man in a box to give us absolution so that we can resume the behavior and come back next week and ask forgiveness for that again.

WHO said abstaining from meat on a Friday is “punishing” one’s self?? Wouldn’t that make fasting a “self-punishment”?

You must be an over-eater who is obsess with food.
Eat much?

No one said that discipline in unnecessary.....we all need it, but the RCC has taken many inconsequential things and turned them into mountains, whilst ignoring the mountains as if they don’t exist....

Like WHAT, for instance??

It was your church that invented “hell”...or should I say, adopted it from the Greeks, along with immortality of the soul. It’s amazing what ended up as Catholic teaching that finds no place at all in original Christianity...

The Bible absolutely teaches that Hell is a state of eternal torment: Isa. 33:11, 14, Matt. 25:31-34, 41, 46, Matt. 26:24, Mark 9:47–48, Luke 3:16-17, 2 Thess. 1:6-9
The man-made "invention" came from your founder, who discarded the Word of God in favor of his own fantasies.

Are you seeing what non-Catholics see? I very much doubt it. Indoctrinated from birth and reinforced at church and school...how can they possibly entertain anything else?
Thankfully many do see the big picture, and have freed themselves from the shackles of man-made doctrines.

NOT every Catholic is a “cradle Catholic”.

In your blind hatred, are you really so ignorant that you don’t understand that there are millions of Catholics who are converts?