Is it possible to lose salvation?

[Rightglory]

Here's a brief summary showing that the 5 points I made earlier (TULIP) are actual Bible doctrines.

(Total Depravity: Romans 3:10-12
10 As it is written: “There is none righteous, no, not one;
11 There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.
12 They have all turned aside;
They have together become unprofitable;
There is none who does good, no, not one.”)

As you can see, nobody seeks after God so God sovereignly chose some for salvation.

If your Bible has cross references you should check them. This is not about total depravity. Paul is in a discussion with Judaizers. The Jews thought they were the special people and only they had a claim for God's favor. Paul says emphatically that is not so. The Gentiles are as worthy. Then Paul uses the texts from the OT,. several from the Ps including the own above, Ps 14:. Unfortantely Paul lifts these out of context so He can make his point that the Jews and Gentiles are in the same situation. Ps 14 starts our with Fools say in their hearts......
Paul is actually making the opposite view of what you want him to say. Christ came for all men. Jew and Gentile. Jews don't have a special claim to God.

(Unconditional Election):
Ephesians 1:4-5 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
John 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

To be "choosen" one has to be IN Christ. One cannot be in Christ unless one believes, is baptized, Being baptized places one in the elect, the Body of Christ. You don't get there being predestined before the foundations of the world. It means He established a means for people to be saved. Namely, anyone who believes and is baptized will become an elect. It does not say, some were elected to be in Christ, but those IN Christ, were the chosen ones, the elect.
Since Christ draws all men to Himself, John 12:32, Now, who will be raised up in the last day? First we need to see who was given to Christ. Col 1:20, All things in heaven and earth were given to Him. Then John 6:39, all that was given to Him will be raised in the last day. Then vs 40, ll those that see and believe will be raised to everlasting life
So, we have the incarnational verses agains. It speaks about who Christ saved from death. All men, Same as I Cor 15:21-22,

Christ's specific work for the elect (Limited Atonement:) John 17: 9 “I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours.

In my last post I pointed out that there were 5 examples of election in scripture. One was the Apostles. Well, here you have their election confirmed. John 17 is the pastoral prayer of Christ. It is divided into four sections: vs 1-5 Christ prays for Himself, vs 6-19 he is praying for the Apostles, 20-23, for the Church, and vs 24-26 for the rest of the world. Context, Context, Context. You cannot just pick out a text, a phrase and assign some doctrine to it. This is why Calvin is wrong on everyone of the 5 points.

It
(Irresistible Grace: John 6:37, 44), 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.

God is not the one who discards anyone. He calls all men to repentance, II Pet 3:9, desires all to be saved I Tim 2:4. But it is man who choses to be IN Christ, and man can also choose to reject Him outright but also to forsake Him as a believer. We are admonished continually in the NT to remain faithful. His grace is definitely resistible.

And the finally the believer's secure, eternal salvation (Perseverance of the Saints):

John 10:28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

"We don't need to worry about God. He casts no one out. However, there is nothing in scripture that says man cannot lose faith, thus lose his salvation in the end. In fact most of the NT is about believers guarding against losing faith. You see, we are not being saved by election, we are being saved through faith, our faith. I Pet 1:3-5.

There are many more supporting verses, but I'll see how you go about denying Gods Word in these verses.

I haven't denied God's Word. What I have denied is a particular man's interpretation of God's Word. As I have already pointed out the Church back in 1672 in the Synod of Jerusalem condemned Calvinism as heresy. However that does not make it heresy for you. They just point out that none of Calvin's teaching have been believed, taught from the beginning. They were innovative ideas imposed on scripture by a man whose ego got in the way and he thought he could do better than the Holy Spirit in giving the teaching to the Apostles and then having them preserved in His Church, His Body, I Tim 3:15.

 

[GodsGrace]

Exactly we cannot Judge, and yes they should stop. Not everyone receives the same measure of the Holy Spirit, it can take time for someone's heart to be transformed, another hurdle for many is pride also one must listen and read the word of God/Jesus with an open heart.

I have to agree. I believe that when someone states that they sin and Jesus covers for it, it just a way of saying they can sin all they want to and still be saved.

This is a heretical teaching and is not what Jesus taught or what Paul taught.

Also many are aware of Jesus but Follow Paul instead, the gospels are similar, Jesus focuses on repentance, the Kingdom of Heaven the ten commandments, Paul's mostly on Jesus and the cross and what it represents,

Agreed. Let's remember however that Jesus also stated:

John 12:32
32 "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself."

Jesus knew that He would fulfill the same role as the serpent in

Numbers 21:8
8 Then the LORD said to Moses, "Make a fiery serpent, and set it on a standard; and it shall come about, that everyone who is bitten, when he looks at it, he will live."

Jesus also said that whosoever believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life.
John 3:16

IOW,,,the fundamental teaching is the same.
Paul created more theology.
Jesus was more practical.

Unfortunately many who strictly follow Paul forget that the ten commandments are the covenant and lead to eternal Life. These ten commandments put in the hearts of true believers by the grace and Power of the Holy Spirit, to the ones who hear and Follow Christ. Only Jesus words can save, He is the Light of the world and many fall away, Many many reasons can lead some on the wrong path.

John 14:21
21 "He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him ...

We must use patience and try to bring back people towards Christ who is the only way to eternal life, time is short and the work is hard but must me done to grow the Kingdom of Heaven.

Yes sir. And to do this we must be able to judge....
how do we know someone has left God if we are not judging?

James 5:19-20
19 My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth and one turns him back,
20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death ...

Let me reiterate to be clear:
We cannot judge THE SOUL of a person...
he may even seem lost to us but may not be...
only God can know this.

but we can judge actions based on God's absolute moral values.

In the name of Jesus Christ, Blessings to you always Sister.

And to you.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Well, right, but the Mosaic law consisted of three kinds of laws ~ civil, ceremonial, and moral.

We make that distinction,God didn't. He only wrote ten in stone which are a ministry of death 2 Cor.

No, the Sabbath is still here, but not in the form it was... or when it was, actually,the seventh day of the week. It is now the first day of the week, made that way by Jesus in His resurrrection, now referred to most often as the Lord's Day. It is on this day that we are to get our sabbath rest. And we are to remember it and keep it holy... set apart... and not neglecting it, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as we see the Day drawing near (Hebrews 10:25).

No we have entered into Sabbath rest permanently. there is no command to keep sunday.

Right, but He came not to abolish it, which... He said, as you know, I'm sure. He did not make it no more, but actually clarified what it really is, which is summed up in the two great commandments, to love the Lord your God... and your neighbor.

Jesus abolished it (fulfilled it).

but here is what Paul says of the Law:

2 Corinthians 3:7
But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

it ministers death and not life.

Galatians 3:21-25

King James Version

​

21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

If you live under the law- you have not come to jesus yet!

Hmmm... <smile> Said by whom...? <smile>

That I do not remember. Heard it over 40 years ago.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Hi Ronald, there is an important distinction between the ten commandments that God wrote with HIS finger on 2 tables of stone, also called the Covenant by God. These were kept in the Ark of the Covenant and the rest of the law of Moses was kept outside and were not placed Inside the Ark.

I want you to think about what you wrote about ""9 of the 10 commands written in stone were carried over to teh New (the Sabbath is the one not here) Paul said the law was a ministry of death, it in place until faith came and Jesus fulfilled it." many things You say here do not follow scripture.

They do. I know the law written in stone is a ministry of death. but when you look at the commands given to the church, 9 of the ten in stone are carried over. Not as the Mosaic Law but the commands for the church to show their righteousness.

 

[mailmandan]

That question sounds wise, but it is built on a wrong idea. Jesus never taught that salvation is a measure of “enough obedience,” and He never said we will stand before Him to argue our case with a speech. He said something very different.

Jesus said, “The word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day” (John 12:48, NKJV). So it is not my answer that judges me, and it is not a checklist of deeds. It is His own words. That is why I do not accept the hypothetical question. Judgment does not work that way.

Jesus also said, “If you love Me, keep My commandments” (John 14:15). He did not say, “Keep them perfectly or you are lost.” He spoke about love, direction, and faithfulness of heart. When someone truly trusts Him, they listen to Him, follow Him, and get back up when they fall. That is faith that lives.

God looks at the heart. “Man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart” (1 Samuel 16:7, NKJV). Jesus taught the same truth when He spoke about those who honour God with their lips but whose hearts are far from Him.

So my trust is not in my performance. My trust is in Jesus Himself, and my life shows that trust by following Him, not perfectly, but sincerely. Not to earn salvation, but because I believe Him and do as he asked. That is the narrow path Jesus described, and His words will be the judge, not a debate at the gate.

My question was not meant to imply there will be a debate at the gate when we die but demonstrate exactly what you have placed your faith in/are trusting in for salvation. I see that you refuse to answer my question and prefer to remain slippery. I will gladly answer my own question and show you how easy it is. I will not be in the group that says 'Lord, Lord,' didn't WE (Matthew 7:22-23) but in the group that says to Jesus, 'Lord, Lord' didn't YOU die for my sins, were buried and rise again the third day to provide for me eternal life. (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) I trust in YOU as the ALL-sufficient means of my salvation. (Ephesians 2:8,9)

The narrow path is faith that trusts exclusively in Jesus Christ for salvation. (John 3:15,16,18; 10:9; 14:6; Acts 4:12; 10:43; 13:38-39; 16:31 etc..). It does not get any narrower than that. (1 Corinthians 1:18-21)

 

[mailmandan]

They do. I know the law written in stone is a ministry of death. but when you look at the commands given to the church, 9 of the ten in stone are carried over. Not as the Mosaic Law but the commands for the church to show their righteousness.

Amen! 9 of the 10 commandments are reiterated under the new covenant but not as the Mosaic Law repackaged. The law on our heart and mind is the love of the Spirit, not the letter of the law. This is why Paul tells us that the new covenant is a covenant of the Spirit, and not of the letter in 2 Corinthians 3:6-9.

The command to keep the sabbath day is not binding on Christians under the new covenant.

1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - James 2:7
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3

 

[PinSeeker]

We make that distinction, God didn't.

That does not invalidate in anyway the distinctions; they are what they are. They're just general categories, Ronald, that's all. The civil and ceremonial laws do not apply to us anymore, because we have a "better law" ~ Christ, of course. But the moral laws are absolutely still in effect, which really can be summed up in one word: love.

...we have entered into Sabbath rest permanently.

No, that will be when we in eternity, the age to come. It will be when Jesus tells each one of us at the final Judgment, "Well done, good and faithful servant. You have been faithful over a little; I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master" (Matthew 25:21).

there is no command to keep sunday.

Not directly in the New Testament, no, but the Sabbath Day is now the Lord's Day, so at least indirectly, the fourth commandment absolutely applies. There is, however, as I said, an exhortation to not neglect the gathering of the saints, as is the habit of some (Hebrews 10:25), which is done properly on the first day of the week, the Lord's Day.

Jesus abolished it (fulfilled it).

Fulfillment and abolishment are two very different things, Ronald. Yes, He fulfilled the law, but he did not abolish it, even according to His own words... that He came not to abolish it but to fulfill it (Matthew 5:17).

That I do not remember. Heard it over 40 years ago.

Hmmmm... <smile>

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

So only the "OT saints" were saved? What about the millions outside of the OT saints?

Under the OT only those the Lord considered to be "saved" went to Abraham's bosom as we see in the case of the rich man and lazurus

All others went to the lower parts of hell like the rich man and they are not saved.

Where does it say Jesus preached to these ... as you call them "folks"?

1 Peter 3:18-20
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

So Job was saved because before he died he :-
Repented
Was baptized
Received the HS
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
and he got taught that before he died ?
List the verses

No, Job was consider by God to be "saved" when he died so God placed Job in Abraham's bosom Jesus told us about in the case of the rich man and lazurus

Then, when Jesus left His Body on the Cross He went in to hell and preached to those in Abraham's bosom and they all got born again and when Jesus was raised from the dead all these folks were raised up from the dead at the same time.

Matthew 27:52-53 tells us that many saints who had died were raised after Jesus' resurrection and appeared to many in the holy city.

A transformed heart does take time and is not instant

And yet God said this in His Word:
2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

This means that when someone accepts Christ, they are spiritually transformed, and their old life is replaced with a new one in Christ.

Then God further instructs those getting born again:

Ephesians 5:1
Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;

Ephesians 4:22-24
put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Romans 13:14
put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

Colossians 3:10
And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of Him that created Him:

2 Corinthians 6:17
come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

And so we have our marching orders from the Lord.

you go with hypothetical always, the fact is Judas did not repent or ask forgiveness.

No, he obviously did not.

But it was in fact an option for him and he failed to select the correct option choosing to self murder instead

Jesus did say to rescue a sinner in Matthew 18.
And Paul said to bring back a wanderer....

But no where in God's Word are we told to try and force or make someone stop sinning

If they get born again and continue in sin then the devil has choked God's Word out of them

Jesus explains this process in Mark 4:13-20

Mark 4:13-20
And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?
The sower soweth the word.
And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.
And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness;
And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.
And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word,
And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.
And these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred.

Here we see Jesus telling us the 5 things the devil uses to choke the Word and cause it to be unfruitful... IF these things are allowed to ENTER IN which we have the responsibility to not allow... see John 14:23 where Jesus says "If a man love me, he will keep my words" as in NOT allow it to be choked out of us.

The 5 things are... affliction, persecution, cares of this world, deceitfulness of riches, and lusts of other things

Jesus said God’s Kingdom works on the seedtime and harvest principle

Mark 4:26
And he said, So is the kingdom of God, as if a man should cast seed into the ground;

Exactly we cannot Judge

That's not what the Word of the Lord teaches:

Jesus tells us to judge righteously

John 7:24
Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

The only way to judge righteously is to compare what people do and say to what God's Word teaches.

He also warns that we will be judged with the judgement that we judge with (reap what we sow - Gal 6:7,8)

Matthew 7:2
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

So, if someone is believing or doing something that is obviously in opposition to what God's Word teaches... it's not "judging" them to point out what they believe or do is in opposition to what God's Word teaches

By the same token, we should apply God's Word to ourselves and we should actually judge ourselves

1 Corinthians 11:31
For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.

The purpose of this is to submit ourselves to the Lord so that He does not have to judge us as spoken of in 1 Corinthians 11:32.... the Lord would much rather have us come to Him in submission and ask / believe for His leading / teaching so we can keep ourselves on the path that leads to life and not get off on the path that leads to death (separation from God)

1 Corinthians 5:11-13
But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

 

[LoveYeshua]

My question was not meant to imply there will be a debate at the gate when we die but demonstrate exactly what you have placed your faith in/are trusting in for salvation. I see that you refuse to answer my question and prefer to remain slippery. I will gladly answer my own question and show you how easy it is. I will not be in the group that says 'Lord, Lord,' didn't WE (Matthew 7:22-23) but in the group that says to Jesus, 'Lord, Lord' didn't YOU die for my sins, were buried and rise again the third day to provide for me eternal life. (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) I trust in YOU as the ALL-sufficient means of my salvation. (Ephesians 2:8,9)

The narrow path is faith that trusts exclusively in Jesus Christ for salvation. (John 3:15,16,18; 10:9; 14:6; Acts 4:12; 10:43; 13:38-39; 16:31 etc..). It does not get any narrower than that. (1 Corinthians 1:18-21)

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No mailman, i will not indulge in your speculative scenarios, ask me directly i always answer directly snd i am not slipppery and you know it.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Debate you fate at the gate?

 

[walter]

Your question reveals that you don't believe that the Bible is Gods inerrant, infallible Word. Those of us who do believe every Word of the Bible, would never ask such a question, because we know that the bible never ever contradicts itself and there are no errors in it.

So what we have here, is you expressing your confusion and delusion and inability to receive the the truth. I refer to the above verses again, as they seem to describe your theology better than I could.

How would you know which scriptures are relevant, if you failed to interpret the first one.

Where does the Understanding come from, reading just a few scriptures, or all the the words from Jesus and the Apostles? Does Jesus want us to ignore any parts of the Bible?

 

[walter]

Yes, sometimes. For example the New Testament cancelled a lot of the Old Testament.


It is good to understand what we read, yes.

In summary, it is not either-or.

I guess it depends on the specific scriptures we are talking about?

 

[mailmandan]

No mailman, i will not indulge in your speculative scenarios, ask me directly i always answer directly snd i am not slipppery and you know it.

I answered my own direct question with a direct answer. Yet you simply dismissed my direct question as a speculative scenario.

Now hold on for one minute. I have three conversations going on at the same time on three different Christian forum sites and at first I confused you with someone else who has evaded numerous questions. He is the slippery one! By you not answering my question about about heaven's gate does not earn you the title of being slippery. Sorry about that.

 

[mailmandan]

answer is no, for when saved , we then receiving the sealing by and of the Holy Spirit

Ephesians 1:13 - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

 

[Adventageous]

Yes, a person can "lose" (fall away from) salvation; while assurance is another matter, related, but not the same. So many scriptures from Gen. to Rev. on this matter. Otherwise, consider the following material, 7th Sealed In - Once Sealed, Always Saved - 7th Sealed In - Once Sealed, Always Saved : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

It is a person's prerogative whether or not they consider the material. If not (Pro. 18:13,17 KJB), their loss.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

No, Scripturally, Under Grace, no 'member' Of The Body Of Christ can 'lose' God's Eternal Salvation!:

Please Double-Check With God Himself = The New "Owner" Of The Purchased Possession!!!:

God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In CHRIST
+ Update
+
God's Eternal Assurance
+
God's Eternal Life Insurance
✓ ✓
Amen.

 

[Christian Soldier]

You are mixing obedience with claiming sinless perfection, and the Bible never makes that equation.

No one here is saying a believer never sins. Jesus Himself taught us to pray, “forgive us our sins,” which already shows that failure can happen. But Jesus never said that obedience is optional, or that sin no longer matters once someone believes.

Jesus said plainly, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.” He did not say, “Try if you can,” or “Believe only.” He tied love, faith, and obedience together. This is not about being perfect. It is about direction of the heart.

When you quote “My yoke is light,” you are missing what Jesus meant. His yoke is light because He teaches the right way to live, not because He removes responsibility. Right before that, Jesus condemns those who hear His words and do not do them. He compares them to a house built on sand. That house still heard the message. It still believed. But it fell because it did not obey.

Jesus never taught that salvation is reduced to one sentence spoken once in life. When asked directly, “What shall I do to inherit eternal life?” Jesus answered by pointing to the commandments and obedience from the heart. When the rich young ruler walked away, Jesus did not correct him by saying, “Just believe only.” He let him go, because obedience mattered.

The apostles taught the same thing. John says, “He who says, ‘I know Him,’ and does not keep His commandments, is a liar.” John does not say this to claim sinless perfection. He says it to expose false faith that has no obedience at all.

1 John 1:8 does not teach that obedience is impossible. It teaches humility. John is correcting people who deny ever sinning. But only two chapters later, he says, “He who abides in Him does not continue in sin.” That means sin is not the ruling power anymore. Grace teaches us to resist, not surrender.

You also introduce election and predestination into a verse that never mentions it. When the jailer asked what to do, he was asking where to begin, not for a full teaching of discipleship. Belief is the door, not the whole house. Jesus Himself said that many will call Him Lord and still be rejected because they did not do the will of the Father.

The burden you describe is not from Jesus’ teaching. It comes from thinking obedience means earning salvation. Jesus never taught that. Obedience is the fruit of faith, not a replacement for grace.

Finally, no one here is teaching sinless perfection. That is a strawman. What is being taught is exactly what Jesus taught:
Faith that saves is a faith that listens, follows, and obeys.

Grace does not remove the call to obedience. Grace gives the power to walk in it.

That is not a heavy burden. That is the narrow path Jesus Himself described.

You're contradicting yourself, on the one hand you say that we must obey the commandments and abide in Him. Then you admit that we don't, (or we do sometimes). Then you say that grace doesn't remove the call to obedience, then you say that grace gives us the power to walk in it, (I think you mean to obey the commandments).

So, I'm getting a mixed message here. I don't know if you believe we are saved by our obedience in keeping the law, or are we saved by grace. You can't have it both ways, Gods word says we are saved by grace, through the gift of faith. so you can't boast that you were saved by your works.

The burden that Jesus describes is nothing to do with the narrow path, because He promised that those of us who are on the narrow path will be hated by the world and we will suffer persecution and be killed. Now that doesn't sound like a light yoke at all.

The Lord Jesus knew that we can't keep any of His commandments, except for the easy one which takes no effort at all, that being to place our trust in Him, and He then does all the work of salvation for us, and we only contribute filthy rags to His finished work.

The Lord Jesus knew that the rich young ruler was not one of Gods elect, that's why He gave him the impossible task of kipping the commandments. But you will never find the Lord Jesus ever demanding anything from Gods chosen/elect. We are already saved, so you don't set conditions for someone to achieve if they already have the prize.

I have already inherited eternal life, because I am already saved, so I don't need to keep any commandment to earn my salvation. Your denomination teaches, the "saved by works" unbiblical version of the gospel.

I try to obey the commandments as much as I can, but I'm just like the rest of Gods Saints, we all continue to sin everyday for the rest of our lives. I don't chose to sin everyday, I sin because I have not attained sinless perfection. I will become like Christ, in the life to come, until then I will sin everyday and the gates of hell can't stop me from claiming my inheritance.

 

[Christian Soldier]

I don't believe in "salvation by works" never stated such. Youl simply assert I did. You don't understand what I stated, so you need to assert falsely so you can uphold your strawman. You don't even understand how "grace" is used and it effect upon God's creation.

Lots of blather here. Explain how someone can be only 90% dead. By the way, I don't think you understand what the phrase "born in sin" actually means either. One thing I do agree with your assertion that what I have explained is completely inconsistent with your view of scripture. But then you are part of that mass of men who hold to theories developed by men, in your case, Calvin. All of these men also make the claim they have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Hardly true and accurate. Where does it say in scripture that the Holy Spirit gives individuals more and different truths throughout history? There is ONLY ONE TRUTH, That is the Truth ONCE given, Jude 3.

OK, so now you confess that you're a Calvinist after all. If you don't believe in Jacob Arminius' version of the gospel "salvation is by works", then it means that you believe that "salvation is by grace" and that exactly what John Calvin taught.

If you try to say, that you don't believe either of those, then it shows that you're under strong delusion and the truth is not in you, because no third option exists.

Some have attempted to create a Hybrid / Frankenstein, version of the gospel. They mix Gods Grace and their works/obedience, to create a team effort version of salvation. But no such abomination exists int the bible.

 

[Christian Soldier]

Where does the Understanding come from, reading just a few scriptures, or all the the words from Jesus and the Apostles? Does Jesus want us to ignore any parts of the Bible? ​

Rubbish question, rubbish theology

 

[GodsGrace]

But no where in God's Word are we told to try and force or make someone stop sinning

I agree.
And that's because we CANNOT, we are UNABLE to make anyone stop sinning.

Nor can we force anyone to accept the Lord's salvation for that matter.

If they get born again and continue in sin then the devil has choked God's Word out of them

Jesus explains this process in Mark 4:13-20

Mark 4:13-20
And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?
The sower soweth the word.
And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.
And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness;
And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.
And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word,
And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.
And these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred.

Here we see Jesus telling us the 5 things the devil uses to choke the Word and cause it to be unfruitful... IF these things are allowed to ENTER IN which we have the responsibility to not allow... see John 14:23 where Jesus says "If a man love me, he will keep my words" as in NOT allow it to be choked out of us.

Agreed.

The 5 things are... affliction, persecution, cares of this world, deceitfulness of riches, and lusts of other things

Jesus said God’s Kingdom works on the seedtime and harvest principle

Mark 4:26
And he said, So is the kingdom of God, as if a man should cast seed into the ground;

I agree on all you've posted.