Once Saved, Always Saved?

[Taken]

Put me on ignore, you'll do me a favor-process of elimination.


3:12
NASB, NRSV, NJB  "Take care"
NKJV  "Beware"
NJB, TEV  "be careful"
Peshitta  "take heed"
This is a PRESENT ACTIVE IMPERATIVE; continue to be watchful! It not only is the beginning of the life of faith that is crucial, but also the finish (cf. chapter 11)!!!

SPECIAL TOPIC: PERSEVERANCE


NASB, NKJV, Peshitta  "brethren"
NRSV  "brothers and sisters"
NJB  "brothers"
TEV  "my friends"
See note at Heb. 3:1. This designation seems to refer to believing Jews, although it could denote ethnic paternity.

"an unbelieving heart" This describes a believer who deserts the living God. A believing heart is one that continues firm to the end (cf. Heb. 3:14 and chapter 11). The phrase "unbelieving heart" reflects a Hebrew idiom "heart of unbelief" (cf. Heb. 3:12), as does "fall away," which reflects the Hebrew shuv ("return" or "turn").



"that falls away from the living God" This is an AORIST ACTIVE INFINITIVE. This VERB is the source of our English word "apostasy." This is addressing a developing faithlessness (it is the opposite of Heb. 3:14). To whom does this passage relate:

believing Jews
unbelieving Jews?
The use of "brothers" in Heb. 3:1 and the added phrase "partakers of a heavenly calling" and "brothers" in Heb. 3:12 strongly suggest that it refers to believers or covenant people (i.e., a synagogue).

What then is the warning relating to: (1) salvation or (2) faithfulness? In context it seems to refer to faithfulness; Jesus was faithful, they must be faithful. The book of Hebrews views the Christian life from the end (cf. Heb. 3:14; 11), not the beginning (like Paul).

The "falling away" of Heb. 3:13 must relate to continual faith and faithfulness. The Israelites had faith, but not functioning, obedient faith. They rejected God's promise of the land flowing with milk and honey by accepting the spies' report (cf. Numbers 13-14), not their belief in God. In this context "falling away" does not mean "falling from faith," but "falling from faithfulness" (i.e., OT sense of the term)! However, both are required for a healthy faith. See note at Heb. 3:16-18.

God always comes to us in a covenant relationship. We must respond in faith and faithfulness. The Sovereign God has allowed us to participate in our initial decision and on-going discipleship. The author of Hebrews is difficult to follow because

he uses rabbinical logic and hermeneutics
he is addressing two groups
believing Jews
unbelieving Jews
he views Christian assurance and victory from the criteria of faithfulness as well as faith
he focuses on faithfulness to the end (cf. Heb. 4:14; chapter 11). He views the Christian life from its conclusion, not its beginning
The phrase "the living God" is a play on God's covenant name YHWH, which is from the Hebrew VERB "to be" (cf. Exod.3:14). These readers were not rejecting YHWH, but the irony is that rejecting the gospel of Jesus Christ is, in fact, a rejection of YHWH (cf. 1 John 5:9-12).

Just to put it in context for you-now go ahead, put me on ignore.

J.

Hi J-
I favor Gods Word, and favored my following of Gods Word, over MG’s nonsense and favored myself to put MG on ignore…

God Bless you.
Hope all is well for you.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Ezra]

Hi J-
I favor Gods Word, and favored my following of Gods Word, over MG’s nonsense and favored myself to put MG on ignore…

God Bless you.
Hope all is well for you.

Glory to God,
Taken

glad to see i am not the only one who rubs folks wrong way. when i disagree with there doctrine so to say

 

[One 2 question]

"... the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life ..." "... by grace are ye saved ..." Romans 6:23; Ephesians 2:8

Salvation from the death sentence is God’s gift, because God sent his own son to bear the death penalty for man. (John 3:16) But doesn’t salvation require the cooperation of the individual? Yes. For instance, the exercise of faith is essential. "... if we believe on him ... being justified by faith ..." "... the just shall live by faith." - - Romans 4:24; 5:10; Gal 3:11

The Apostle James shows that the sincerity of our faith must be demonstrated by our efforts at good works. This is why he says, "... by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24) This does not mean that God requires perfect works- - Paul shows that we are not capable of that. (Romans 3:20; 2:16, 3:11) But it does mean that we must try as much as possible to do those things that God would be pleased with. "Faith without works is dead." - - James 2:26

During this age God is not dealing with the world in general. He is preparing the Church class for a glorious reward. They are to be joined with Christ Jesus, and to share both his throne of dominion and his very nature- - the divine nature. (Acts 15:4; Room. 2:7) But before any will be raised to such a position of glory and honor, God wishes to see a character crystallized in earnest loyalty. Of Jesus it was written, "Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered ..." (Hebrews 5:8) Each of Christ’s followers are also to have their obedience proved. We are to search our minds and hearts to see that they are kept in a proper attitude of devotion. The Apostle John said: "Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward." - - 2 John 8

One inference of this counsel is that some will receive less than the full reward of divine nature. Some will be "overcharged with the cares of this life." Some will carelessly build with "wood, hay and stubble" rather than "gold, silver, and precious stones." (1 Corinthians 3:15) But if their hearts are loyal, God will still care for these. "If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." (1 Corinthians 3:12) For some this will mean deliverance "unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus." - - 1 Corinthians 5:5

Some will fall. From other scriptures we learn that it is possible for some to come to a knowledge of the Lord, and then to willfully neglect the favor of God and become estranged from Him. To express and exercise faith in Him, and later to lose it. To receive a standing before God through faith in the blood of Jesus, and to fall. The vital, living and quickening faith of a believer can turn sour. Thus, the warning of Hebrews 10:38: "Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him ..." Jesus said, "No man having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." - - Luke 9:62

The condition of heart that would completely turn from God after having believed and received of the Holy Spirit, would make future repentance impossible. Read carefully Paul’s words in Hebrews 6:4- 6:

"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted of the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance ..." ​

The warning of Hebrews 10:29 is to those who have at one time been sanctified.

"Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?" ​

This condition, though infrequent, is nevertheless a real danger. What of such? The Apostle Peter, in chapter two of his second epistle, speaking of such a class, says: "... if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning." (2 Peter 2:20) These, he says, "have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam ... who loved the wages of unrighteousness." - - 2 Peter 2:15 Peter says that for them "the mist of darkness (the oblivion of death) is reserved for ever." (2 Peter 2:17) "... these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, ... shall utterly perish in their own corruption." - - 2 Peter 2:12

How can this be? Doesn’t Romans 8:35- 39 teach that nothing and nobody can "separate us from the love of God"? True, none of the distresses which he mentions there can separate us- - but we can separate ourselves by an attitude of faithlessness and carelessness leading to heart disloyalty and rebellion. Paul’s discussion is intended to be an assurance to all who will keep their hearts. Even the Apostle Paul himself said, "But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway." (1 Corinthians 9:27) See Romans 11:21.

In addition to these warnings, we have instruction to "Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life." (Proverbs 4:23) And Paul speaks of those "... who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory, honor, and immortality. ..." (Romans 2:7) For, in the full sense, "He that endureth to the end shall be saved." - - Matthew 10:22; 24:13

Faithful unto death Jesus forewarned that the battle of a Christian would not be easy. The world will taunt and jeer. "If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?" (Matthew 10:25) "And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake ..." (Matthew 10:22) From our own flesh will come difficult enticements of pride and lust. (Romns 7:18- 24) And Satan, as a "roaring lion" (1 Peter 5:8), will at every opportunity seek to make shipwreck of our faith.

Love for the Lord, and appreciation of the great price that secures our redemption, will inspire our devotion. Only such love will hold fast to the promise, "Be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." (Revelation 2:10) BUT, "Hold fast that which thou hast, that no man take thy crown ..."- Revelation 3:11

Yes. This is encouraging and reassuring. That the Creator has a script which He Himself will ensure it comes to pass.

Know that every chosen government official will be redeemed out of every nation, people, tribe and tongue. That these elect will be preserved and will endure to their end and be saved. Then we will be rewarded according to what we do in this life.

Yes, every predetermined king will be faithful unto death, and King Jesus will give us a crown of life. And every predestined priest will serve as the servant of all in this life and will be anointed by the Great High Priest in His coming kingdom.

None will lose their salvation nor their future God given role. Salvation belongs to our God the Creator.

 

[Jack]

None will lose their salvation nor their future God given role. Salvation belongs to our God the Creator.

Quoting YOU: "All humans have sinned against God and are going to Hell FOREVER and EVER".

 

[One 2 question]

Quoting YOU: "All humans have sinned against God and are going to Hell FOREVER and EVER".

Praise be to God that His mercy endures forever and ever. And those that call upon the name of the Lord will be saved. Give glory to God for He is LOVE. Love never fails.


Yes, God's irresistible LOVE will draw ALL of His created beings to Himself. Then we will ALL be together with our Creator as one big happy family. Yay!

 

[Jack]

Praise be to God that His mercy endures forever and ever. And those that call upon the name of the Lord will be saved. Give glory to God for He is LOVE. Love never fails.

Yes, God's irresistible LOVE will draw ALL of His created beings to Himself. Then we will ALL be together with our Creator as one big happy family. Yay!

You don't even believe or know your own posts. No Christian will believe you. Satan is clearly spinning you in circles. You're extremely DIZZY! Maybe Christians can pull you out of the Fire! Maybe.

 

[One 2 question]

You don't even believe or know your own posts. No Christian will believe you. Satan is clearly spinning you in circles. You're extremely DIZZY! Maybe Christians can pull you out of the Fire! Maybe.

Don't worry Jack. The only One Who can redeem someone is the Holy Spirit. He did this for me 37 years ago. And for that I am eternally grateful. Thanks for your concern but it is totally unnecessary. If Jesus is your Lord then relax and join me in praising OUR Lord and Savior, Redeemer and Brother.

 

[Jack]

Don't worry Jack. The only One Who can redeem someone is the Holy Spirit. He did this for me 37 years ago. And for that I am eternally grateful. Thanks for your concern but it is totally unnecessary. If Jesus is your Lord then relax and join me in praising OUR Lord and Savior, Redeemer and Brother.

You don't even have a clue what YOU said!

Quoting YOU: "All humans have sinned against God and are going to Hell FOREVER and EVER".

 

[One 2 question]

You don't even have a clue what YOU said!

Quoting YOU: "All humans have sinned against God and are going to Hell FOREVER and EVER".

Don't worry Jack. The only One Who can redeem someone is the Holy Spirit. He did this for me 37 years ago. And for that I am eternally grateful. Thanks for your concern but it is totally unnecessary. If Jesus is your Lord then relax and join me in praising OUR Lord and Savior, Redeemer and Brother.

 

[Jack]

Don't worry Jack. The only One Who can redeem someone is the Holy Spirit. He did this for me 37 years ago. And for that I am eternally grateful. Thanks for your concern but it is totally unnecessary. If Jesus is your Lord then relax and join me in praising OUR Lord and Savior, Redeemer and Brother.

Maybe Christians can pull you out of the Fire. MAYBE!

 

[One 2 question]

Maybe Christians can pull you out of the Fire. MAYBE!

Don't worry Jack. The only One Who can redeem someone is the Holy Spirit. He did this for me 37 years ago. And for that I am eternally grateful. Thanks for your concern but it is totally unnecessary. If Jesus is your Lord then relax and join me in praising OUR Lord and Savior, Redeemer and Brother.

 

[Jack]

Don't worry Jack. The only One Who can redeem someone is the Holy Spirit. He did this for me 37 years ago. And for that I am eternally grateful. Thanks for your concern but it is totally unnecessary. If Jesus is your Lord then relax and join me in praising OUR Lord and Savior, Redeemer and Brother.

So are you in the Bible or outside the Bible today?

Quoting YOU: "Life with God outside the Bible is great"!

You don't have a clue!

 

[One 2 question]

So are you in the Bible or outside the Bible today?

Quoting YOU: "Life with God outside the Bible is great"!

You don't have a clue!

Living life with God and His words is great, be they found in or outside the bibles. But Jack, you stay in your lane and love our Father.

 

[Jack]

Living life with God and His words is great, be they found in or outside the bibles.

Only Satan's messengers would make such an outrageous comment.

But Jack, you stay in your lane and love our Father.

Your lane leads to Hell Fire. You said so!

 

[One 2 question]

Only Satan's messengers would make such an outrageous comment.

Your lane leads to Hell Fire. You said so!

The encouragement is to stay in our individual lane, having a personal, unique relationship with our Creator, fixing our eyes on JESUS as we run to the end of our race having been justified, sanctified and are glorified!

 

[Jack]

The encouragement is to stay in our individual lane, having a personal, unique relationship with our Creator, fixing our eyes on JESUS as we run to the end of our race having been justified, sanctified and are glorified!

I certainly don't want to be in your lane heading for Hell! You said you're going to Hell FOREVER, remember?

 

[Christian Soldier]

"... the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life ..." "... by grace are ye saved ..." Romans 6:23; Ephesians 2:8

Salvation from the death sentence is God’s gift, because God sent his own son to bear the death penalty for man. (John 3:16) But doesn’t salvation require the cooperation of the individual? Yes. For instance, the exercise of faith is essential. "... if we believe on him ... being justified by faith ..." "... the just shall live by faith." - - Romans 4:24; 5:10; Gal 3:11

The Apostle James shows that the sincerity of our faith must be demonstrated by our efforts at good works. This is why he says, "... by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24) This does not mean that God requires perfect works- - Paul shows that we are not capable of that. (Romans 3:20; 2:16, 3:11) But it does mean that we must try as much as possible to do those things that God would be pleased with. "Faith without works is dead." - - James 2:26

During this age God is not dealing with the world in general. He is preparing the Church class for a glorious reward. They are to be joined with Christ Jesus, and to share both his throne of dominion and his very nature- - the divine nature. (Acts 15:4; Room. 2:7) But before any will be raised to such a position of glory and honor, God wishes to see a character crystallized in earnest loyalty. Of Jesus it was written, "Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered ..." (Hebrews 5:8) Each of Christ’s followers are also to have their obedience proved. We are to search our minds and hearts to see that they are kept in a proper attitude of devotion. The Apostle John said: "Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward." - - 2 John 8

One inference of this counsel is that some will receive less than the full reward of divine nature. Some will be "overcharged with the cares of this life." Some will carelessly build with "wood, hay and stubble" rather than "gold, silver, and precious stones." (1 Corinthians 3:15) But if their hearts are loyal, God will still care for these. "If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." (1 Corinthians 3:12) For some this will mean deliverance "unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus." - - 1 Corinthians 5:5

Some will fall. From other scriptures we learn that it is possible for some to come to a knowledge of the Lord, and then to willfully neglect the favor of God and become estranged from Him. To express and exercise faith in Him, and later to lose it. To receive a standing before God through faith in the blood of Jesus, and to fall. The vital, living and quickening faith of a believer can turn sour. Thus, the warning of Hebrews 10:38: "Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him ..." Jesus said, "No man having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." - - Luke 9:62

The condition of heart that would completely turn from God after having believed and received of the Holy Spirit, would make future repentance impossible. Read carefully Paul’s words in Hebrews 6:4- 6:

"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted of the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance ..." ​

The warning of Hebrews 10:29 is to those who have at one time been sanctified.

"Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?" ​

This condition, though infrequent, is nevertheless a real danger. What of such? The Apostle Peter, in chapter two of his second epistle, speaking of such a class, says: "... if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning." (2 Peter 2:20) These, he says, "have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam ... who loved the wages of unrighteousness." - - 2 Peter 2:15 Peter says that for them "the mist of darkness (the oblivion of death) is reserved for ever." (2 Peter 2:17) "... these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, ... shall utterly perish in their own corruption." - - 2 Peter 2:12

How can this be? Doesn’t Romans 8:35- 39 teach that nothing and nobody can "separate us from the love of God"? True, none of the distresses which he mentions there can separate us- - but we can separate ourselves by an attitude of faithlessness and carelessness leading to heart disloyalty and rebellion. Paul’s discussion is intended to be an assurance to all who will keep their hearts. Even the Apostle Paul himself said, "But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway." (1 Corinthians 9:27) See Romans 11:21.

In addition to these warnings, we have instruction to "Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life." (Proverbs 4:23) And Paul speaks of those "... who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory, honor, and immortality. ..." (Romans 2:7) For, in the full sense, "He that endureth to the end shall be saved." - - Matthew 10:22; 24:13

Faithful unto death Jesus forewarned that the battle of a Christian would not be easy. The world will taunt and jeer. "If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?" (Matthew 10:25) "And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake ..." (Matthew 10:22) From our own flesh will come difficult enticements of pride and lust. (Romns 7:18- 24) And Satan, as a "roaring lion" (1 Peter 5:8), will at every opportunity seek to make shipwreck of our faith.

Love for the Lord, and appreciation of the great price that secures our redemption, will inspire our devotion. Only such love will hold fast to the promise, "Be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." (Revelation 2:10) BUT, "Hold fast that which thou hast, that no man take thy crown ..."- Revelation 3:11

After careful consideration of all the above, I've found some fundamental errors in your interpretation of the scriptures you refereed to.

The main problem with your interpretation of those scriptures which seem to suggest that saved people can lose their salvation, is that none of them actually say that "saved people can lose their salvation".

The Lord Jesus only gave one commandment, in return for salvation. He simply said "believe in Me and you shall be saved". So that's all we must do to be saved, but before you can do that, God must give you the gift of faith, so it goes back to the "saved by grace" gospel, which cancels out your "saved by works" version of the gospel.

How much sin are we allowed to commit in your version of the gospel, before we lose our salvation. That's a deal breaking question for those who follow your version of the gospel.

I'm just like the Apostle Paul, my sin nature overpowers me regularly, it causes me to commit all kinds of sin, which I won't mention here. The Apostle Paul had the same problem, his sin nature was more powerful than his will to do good works.

Paul said "the good that I want to do, I don't do, but the evil I don't want to do, that I do". So according to your version of the gospel, both Paul and myself are condemned to hell.

You tried to interpret 2 Peter 2:20 as saying that saved people, went back into the world and lost their salvation. But the verse says nothing of the sort, it just says they escaped the pollution of the world (doctrine of demons, lies, fornication, alcohol, drugs, pornography etc.) Pollution of the world is everything this world (who's Prince is Satan) has to offer.

If some worldly man walks into a Church service, he will hear the gospel, he will enjoy a fellowship lunch with the Church, he will be enlightened by he truth, which exposes those things he loves as being evil. He then attends regularly and forms new friendships and claims to be a believer, then suddenly falls away, never to be seen again.

In your version of the gospel, that man was chosen by God for salvation before the foundation of the world. Christ came and suffered to save Him, and then Christ lost him because Christ's offer of eternal paradise was not good enough and he chose to spend eternity tormented in the lake of fire instead.

Here's how Gods Word contradicts your version of the gospel.

1 John 2:19 "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us".

Can you now see why the "saved by works" version of the gospel doesn't work.

 

[KUWN]

Don't worry Jack. The only One Who can redeem someone is the Holy Spirit. He did this for me 37 years ago. And for that I am eternally grateful. Thanks for your concern but it is totally unnecessary. If Jesus is your Lord then relax and join me in praising OUR Lord and Savior, Redeemer and Brother.

Just to be biblically accurate, all humans have been redeemed based on Christ's work on the Cross. Redeem means to buy someone/something out of a market or from humanity. Christ paid the price for all, but redemption is not salvation. Redemption only makes salvation possible. Salvation has nothing to do with being redeemed, that is why the whole world is redeemed. Salvation is only for those who exercise faith in God's offer of salvation.

 

[Jack]

Just to be biblically accurate, all humans have been redeemed based on Christ's work on the Cross.

WRONG! ONLY those who believe in Him!

Mk 16 He that believeth not shall be DAMNED!

Redeem means to buy someone/something out of a market or from humanity. Christ paid the price for all, but redemption is not salvation. Redemption only makes salvation possible. Salvation has nothing to do with being redeemed, that is why the whole world is redeemed. Salvation is only for those who exercise faith in God's offer of salvation.

So Hitler, Stalin, Idi Amin and all the worst humans who ever lived will be saved?

 

[Taken]

So Hitler, Stalin, Idi Amin and all the worst humans who ever lived will be saved?

If those you named Believed Before their moment of Mortal Death…
YES, They were Saved.

Glory to God,
Taken