The false doctrines of the Preterist and Futurist interpretation

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ewq1938

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I am not fully a Preterist nor am I a Full Preterist hlo

I believe in the bodily resurrection of the saints and that the dead, great and small, will stand before God at the Great White Throne judgment.


You may be Partial Preterist, so most prophecies fulfilled but not all like the events you mentioned.
 

Korben Dallas

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@Hobie (sry still getting the hang of quotes)

With a title like "False doctrines of the Preterist...interpretation", I was thinking to see more about Preterist false doctrine. I am not an apologist for Preterism's origins nor does it seem to be very important who believed what eschatology first, but here are a few thoughts.

1. There are no scriptures or church fathers pointing to the pope as the antichrist so I don't see how your Wikipedia thesis could have been a problem for Catholics until many centuries later.

2. Many preterist concepts begin early in the first century. That is why so many accused the New Testament writers of being mistaken in the expectation of the imminent return of Messiah.

<Hobie> Well, if one looks the prophecies are all history which is my background, and all you have to do is line them up and they fall into place, while futurism and preterism are just ways to distort what is being given and just ideas of men and really total confusion to say the least. <Hobie>

3. Preterist concepts are derived from first principles (scripture) and are deeply rooted in a respect for historical events and historical accounts. Philo, Suetonius, Josephus, DSS, Early Church Fathers...

4. Premillennialism is certainly to be praised for respecting scriptural intricacy and historical events. Approaches like historicism, futurism, and idealism on the other hand seem to be embarrassed by the detail of revelation.

<Hobie> Just look at the kingdoms that formed the nations of Europe and history clearly shows who the ten were <Hobie>

5. Clearly? No. It seems like Premillennialism is re-invented every decade. Honestly, it is such a sprawling, biased, and sparsely supported explanation that there is no wonder Premillennial interpretations are so heavily splintered.

<CTK> Unless you can answer these questions…. God has given us His prophecies in Daniel to read, study and interpret so we can understand His plan of salvation for all mankind. <CTK>

6. Forgive me if I misunderstand what you are saying here. The plan of salvation has been known for 2000 years and is not hard to understand. Nor does a person's salvation depend on their understanding and opinions of histories written sometimes by unbelievers. All histories are suspect for propaganda, ignorance, and simple human error. You guys are taking too much on yourself to be talking about eschatology like this.
 

shepherdsword

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Here is from Wikipedia and it is pretty straightforward:

"One of the most influential aspects of the early Protestant historicist paradigm was the assertion that scriptural identifiers of the Antichrist were matched only by the institution of the Papacy. Particular significance and concern were the Papal claims of authority over the Church through Apostolic Succession, and the State through the Divine Right of Kings. When the Papacy aspires to exercise authority beyond its religious realm into civil affairs, on account of the Papal claim to be the Vicar of Christ, then the institution was fulfilling the more perilous biblical indicators of the Antichrist. Martin Luther wrote this view into the Smalcald Articles of 1537; this view was not novel and had been leveled at various popes throughout the centuries, even by Roman Catholic saints.[2] It was then widely popularized in the 16th century, via sermons, drama, books, and broadside publication.[3] The alternate methods of prophetic interpretation, Futurism and Preterism were derived from Jesuit writings, whose counter-reformation efforts were aimed at opposing this interpretation[4][5][6][7] that the Antichrist was the Papacy or the power of the Roman Catholic Church.[8]"

The Protestant Reformers, including John Wycliffe, Martin Luther, John Calvin,, John Knox, Roger Williams, Cotton Mather, Jonathan Edwards, and John Wesley etc.., as well as most Protestants believers, felt that the Early Church of Christ and the Apostles, had been led into the Great Apostasy by the Papacy and identified the Pope with the Antichrist. The Centuriators of Magdeburg, a group of Lutheran scholars in Magdeburg headed by Matthias Flacius, wrote the 12-volume Magdeburg Centuries to discredit the Catholic Church and lead other Christians to recognize the Pope as the Antichrist. So, rather than expecting a single Antichrist to rule the earth during a future Tribulation period, Martin Luther, John Calvin, and other Protestant Reformers saw the Antichrist as a present feature in the world of their time, fulfilled in the Papacy.

Now in order to counter this view that the papacy was the Antichrist power it the church turned to the Jesuits who were summoned to pus back the reformers' teachings, and here two Jesuit scholars stand out in particular. They are Ribera and Alcasar, and they developed the Futurist and Preterist systems of prophetic interpretation.

Spanish Jesuit Francisco Ribera published a commentary on the book of Revelation which proposed that the bulk of the prophecies would be fulfilled in a brief three-and-one-half-year period at the end of the Christian era. In that short space antichrist (a single individual, according to Ribera) would rebuild the Jerusalem Temple, deny Christ, abolish Christianity, be received by the Jews, pretend to be god, and conquer the world. Thus the Protestant contention that the apocalyptic symbols of antichrist denoted an apostate religious system was countered, and the focus of the prophecies was diverted from the present to the far distant future.

Spanish Jesuit, Luis de Alcazar also published a scholarly work on Revelation, to refute the Protestant Reformation on the Antichrist power. Alcazar's thesis, the opposite of Ribera's, was that all the prophecies of Revelation had been fulfilled in the past, that is, by the fifth and sixth centuries A.D., the early centuries of Christianity. He asserted that this prophetic book simply described a two-fold war by the church-its victory over the Jewish synagogue on the one hand (chaps. 1-11) and Roman paganism on the other (chaps. 12-19). Chapters 21, 22 Alcazar applied to the Roman Catholic Church as the New Jerusalem, glorious and triumphant. His writings were developed into a system of interpretation known as preterism.

Over time these specific systems of counter interpretations of the Antichrist spread and began to penetrate Protestant thought. Preterism was the first; it began to enter Protestantism in the late eighteenth century. Preterist interpretations of the prophecies have today become the standard view of liberal Protestantism.

The ideas of futurism, although refuted at first, eventually spread into Protestantism during the nineteenth century. So the Protestant denominations have picked up these counter reformation views set about to change the views of the papacy as the Antichrist power that was from the Reformers.

The false doctrine of Preterism and Futurism, as you can see, basically are to put aside the Reformers view of the Antichrist which was held by the main body of Protestants. Preterist interpretation puts all prophecy pertaining to the Antichrist into the past so it is long gone, and the Futurist interpretation puts them into the future so the papacy could claim it was not this power. It is a deception which has been picked up and spread through the churches which has become a stumbling block for many people as they are fed its lies by these false doctrines..
The OP ignores Historical Premillennialism. This position of the early church fathers had nothing to to with the Jesuits or RCC. It predates them all

What Is Historical Premillennialism?​


Premillennialism = the belief that Jesus will return before (pre-) the millennium — a 1,000-year reign of Christ on earth mentioned in Revelation 20.


Historical Premillennialism = the earlier, classic version of premillennial belief, held by many of the early Church Fathers, before more modern systems like Dispensational Premillennialism arose in the 19th century.




Core Beliefs​


  1. Christ will physically return to earth before the millennium.
  2. The Church goes through the tribulation (a time of suffering and persecution), rather than being raptured out of it.
  3. Satan is bound, and Christ reigns on earth for 1,000 years — a time of peace, righteousness, and justice.
  4. Believers are resurrected at Christ’s coming and reign with Him.
  5. After the millennium, Satan is released, there's a final rebellion, then the final judgment and the eternal state (new heaven and new earth).

️ Early Church Support​


Many early Church Fathers supported this view, including:


  • Papias
  • Irenaeus
  • Justin Martyr
  • Tertullian

They believed in a literal kingdom of Christ on earth, often centered in Jerusalem.

The Antichrist in Historical Premillennialism​

Who is the Antichrist?​

In Historical Premillennialism, the Antichrist is a real, future human figure — a powerful, charismatic, deceptive leader who rises before the second coming of Christ. He leads a rebellion against God, persecutes the Church, and is ultimately defeated by Jesus at His return.

This figure is often associated with:

  • “Man of lawlessness” – 2 Thessalonians 2:3–10
  • “Beast from the sea” – Revelation 13
  • “Little horn” – Daniel 7
  • “Antichrist” – 1 John 2:18, though John suggests multiple antichrists in a general sense too

Key Features of the Antichrist (in this view)​

  1. He arises during a time of global turmoil or moral collapse.
  2. Persecutes believers during a period of intense tribulation.
  3. Performs signs and wonders to deceive people (2 Thess. 2:9).
  4. Sets himself up as God in the Temple or in some form of blasphemous self-exaltation.
  5. Deceived nations into following him, leading to a global rebellion.
  6. Is ultimately destroyed by Christ at His second coming (2 Thess. 2:8 – “whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth”).
 

Brakelite

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That doctrine simply does not keep to God's written Word.

The final 5th beast of the feet of ten toes of iron mixed with clay per Daniel 2 will involve the "ten horns" which represent "ten kings" per Rev.17. And Rev.17 reveals those ten kings do not come to power until the end for "one hour" with the beast (king). That means they are not even manifest yet today, and certainly not back history!

That means all of man's false Preterist and Historicist notions about a pope and Rome are all for naught, and the end time beast God's Word points to as head will be in JERUSALEM, not Rome.

The old Protestant Reformer's belief back in the 15th-16th centuries that the pope was the Antichrist did not pan out. Bible prophecy about the Antichrist at the 'end' of this world involves Jesus' coming soon afterwards to end the persecution. That didn't happen in the era of the Protestant Reformers, as we still await Lord Jesus' 2nd and only other coming.
You reject preterism, futurism, historicism, saying they are doctrines of men, but invent a new one. Davyism.
 

Davy

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You reject preterism, futurism, historicism, saying they are doctrines of men, but invent a new one. Davyism.

Now you well know I have not invented any new doctrine. I'm simply following what The Word of God declares, so it is not my fault that you obviously do not know what all God's Word teaches, but that you have spent most of your time in a very small section of 'milk' teaching, when you ought to be on the 'strong meat' of God's Word.
 
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Brakelite

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Now you well know I have not invented any new doctrine. I'm simply following what The Word of God declares, so it is not my fault that you obviously do not know what all God's Word teaches, but that you have spent most of your time in a very small section of 'milk' teaching, when you ought to be on the 'strong meat' of God's Word.
Every cultist says the same thing. As do Catholics. Presbyterians, Lutherans, Congregational, Episcopal and every single different pentecostal church on the planet, and all the above disagreeing on what the Bible says. So, no. I certainly do not well know that you haven't invented a new doctrine, especially when you are so quick to deride Bible scholars before you who you insult claiming the sole basis for their teachings were the times in which they lived. You have them no credit for their study of scripture whatsoever, and you fail to take any interest in the real reasons they took such a stance, at the risk of their lives, against the most powerful church on earth. So, yes. You're making stuff up, with a little input from Mr Schofield and Mr Alcaraz SJ.
 
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Davy

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Every cultist says the same thing. As do Catholics. Presbyterians, Lutherans, Congregational, Episcopal and every single different pentecostal church on the planet, and all the above disagreeing on what the Bible says. So, no. I certainly do not well know that you haven't invented a new doctrine, especially when you are so quick to deride Bible scholars before you who you insult claiming the sole basis for their teachings were the times in which they lived. You have them no credit for their study of scripture whatsoever, and you fail to take any interest in the real reasons they took such a stance, at the risk of their lives, against the most powerful church on earth. So, yes. You're making stuff up, with a little input from Mr Schofield and Mr Alcaraz SJ.

Keep making things up, when it is actually you... that is following a CULT teaching, and NOT The Word of God as written.
 

Davy

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How would you know whether what I wrote ages with Scripture? You haven't investigated.

You're only like many who listen to man, and not to God in His Word, and never progress any further than the 'milk' of God's Word, which is your own fault because you are haughty and have not relinquished authority to The LORD GOD. That is why you rebel against His written Word.
 

Davy

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The OP ignores Historical Premillennialism. This position of the early church fathers had nothing to to with the Jesuits or RCC. It predates them all
....

That Wikipedia explanation is just more propaganda by the false-Jews of the "synagogue of Satan."

Anyone who studies God's Word as written, particularly about the SIGNS given in The New Testament by Lord Jesus and His Apostles about the END of this world, should automatically know... there was no way the Antichrist could appear in 16th century Europe as a Catholic pope, even though that is what the Reformers believed.

The SIGNS of the end in God's Word reveals a JEWISH false-Messiah as the coming Antichrist at the END, so shouldn't the Bible student reading that junk from Wikipedia see it as a bit suspect, since nothing... is mentioned there about the actual written Bible requirements for the coming Antichrist appearing in JERUSALEM being from the tribe of Judah, the Jews?
 

Davy

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Men's seminary doctrine called Futurism is an oxymoron too. If the Revelation signs are NOT about 'future' events, which is basically what Futurists claim, then that points AWAY from the ACTUAL written Word of God! For example, is the 2nd coming of Lord Jesus Christ still an event yet to happen in our future? YES! of course it is still future to us today. Does that mean Jesus' future 2nd coming is false, and belongs to men's category called Futurism? No, of course not, because Jesus' 2nd coming is written to happen still sometime in our future.

Thus Futurism is simply a design by the devil and his children of false-Jews of the "synagogue of Satan" to get you BACK LOOKING AT A CATHOLIC POPE as the Antichrist. That way, you will more easily be deceived by the real Antichrist that will be a FAKE-Messiah, where Messiah means he MUST originate from among the Jews as per the written Bible prophecy about Messiah.

What about men's false seminary doctrine called Preterism? Preterism is basically pushing the SAME goal as Futurism, because Preterism says the events of Revelation already happened back sometime in history. Full Preterism even includes Jesus' 2nd coming as already having happened back in the Apostle's days. And what is that supposed to make you do? It's designed to make you think the Revelation events are history, and NOT FUTURE events! Same idea as Futurism, get it? Do you think then, both Futurism and Preterism are from the SAME source? Yep!

All this is easily... revealed by staying in God's Word as written.

It's those brethren who put their trust in 'man' that stray from God's written Word, and believe fantastic falsehoods created by Satan and his little workers that have crept into many Christian seminaries, that cause the creation of those false seminary doctrines. And their main purpose is to GET YOU OFF OF LOOKING AT JERUSALEM AT THE END OF THIS WORLD FOR THE COMING ANTICHRIST AS A JEWISH FALSE-MESSIAH.
 
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Nancy

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Men's seminary doctrine called Futurism is an oxymoron too. If the Revelation signs are NOT about 'future' events, which is basically what Futurists claim, then that points AWAY from the ACTUAL written Word of God! For example, is the 2nd coming of Lord Jesus Christ still an event yet to happen in our future? YES! of course it is still future to us today. Does that mean Jesus' future 2nd coming is false, and belongs to men's category called Futurism? No, of course not, because Jesus' 2nd coming is written to happen still sometime in our future.

Thus Futurism is simply a design by the devil and his children of false-Jews of the "synagogue of Satan" to get you BACK LOOKING AT A CATHOLIC POPE as the Antichrist. That way, you will more easily be deceived by the real Antichrist that will be a FAKE-Messiah, where Messiah means he MUST originate from among the Jews as per the written Bible prophecy about Messiah.

What about men's false seminary doctrine called Preterism? Preterism is basically pushing the SAME goal as Futurism, because Preterism says the events of Revelation already happened back sometime in history. Full Preterism even includes Jesus' 2nd coming as already having happened back in the Apostle's days. And what is that supposed to make you do? It's designed to make you think the Revelation events are history, and NOT FUTURE events! Same idea as Futurism, get it? Do you think then, both Futurism and Preterism are from the SAME source? Yep!

All this is easily... revealed by staying in God's Word as written.

It's those brethren who put their trust in 'man' that stray from God's written Word, and believe fantastic falsehoods created by Satan and his little workers that have crept into many Christian seminaries, that cause the creation of those false seminary doctrines. And their main purpose is to GET YOU OFF OF LOOKING AT JERUSALEM AT THE END OF THIS WORLD FOR THE COMING ANTICHRIST AS A JEWISH FALSE-MESSIAH.
Have you looked into the Noahide Laws @Davy ?
 

Davy

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Have you looked into the Noahide Laws @Davy ?

That's from Judaism, from their Babylonian Talmud. 7 universal laws.

The Ten Commandments apply more to those in Christ, with 5 commandments involving spiritual matters, and 5 commandments involving civil matters.

Prior to the time of Moses though, there must have been some laws given the lineage of the man Adam, because how would Abel know the proper sacrifice that would please God? The Bible is mainly about one family, the family of Adam and in relation with that family's contact with the nations.
 
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rebuilder 454

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Ever wonder where the idea of a future Antichrist, a rebuilt temple, and a seven-year tribulation came from? It all started with a Jesuit priest named Francisco Ribera during the Counter-Reformation. His Commentary on the Apocalypse of St. John laid the foundation for modern end-times teachings—yet English speaking Christians have never read it.

For the first time ever, the very source of Futurism is available in English. If you study prophecy, this book is a must-read. See for yourself how one man’s interpretation shaped what millions believe today.

King’s Works, a four-volume collection featuring the English translation of Francisco Ribera’s commentary on Revelation, as well as the first ever English translation of Matthias Flacius’ Catalogue of Witnesses of the Truth.

Get your copy here at Amazon: Amazon.com
Easy to see from Scripture the AC is future.
No Jesuits assistance needed
 

Nancy

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That's from Judaism, from their Babylonian Talmud. 7 universal laws.

The Ten Commandments apply more to those in Christ, with 5 commandments involving spiritual matters, and 5 commandments involving civil matters.of breaking one is be-heading.

Prior to the time of Moses though, there must have been some laws given the lineage of the man Adam, because how would Abel know the proper sacrifice that would please God? The Bible is mainly about one family, the family of Adam and in relation with that family's contact with the nations.
Yes, from the Talmud. All gentiles are "Noahides". Their is now a Noahide Academy in Israel. And there are some pastors today teaching them.
This to me anyhow, is very concerning as I see this being ushered in slowly as the global "courts of Justice". The penalty for breaking one is be-heading. These particular "Jews" see Christians as idol worshippers...so, to me this is concerning but everybody is thinking "Sharia law" and fearing it will happen in the US. I do not believe that will ever happen here but, I can see in the Noahide laws becoming a future reality. As you say, "Synagogue of Satan...Jews who say they are Jews but are not, they lie...what better way to get to the only religion/faith that bothers anyone, Christians! They sound right but they are deceiving. I hope you won't beat me up here, lol. There is a ton more to these simple 7 laws and I hope our brothers and sisters do not get caught up in them. It's mostly IMO, Christians who do not know their bible well enough and listen to people like this guy: Google Search

"He who doesn’t have the son doesn’t have the father." 1 John 2:23
 
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Davy

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Yes, from the Talmud. All gentiles are "Noahides". Their is now a Noahide Academy in Israel. And there are some pastors today teaching them.
This to me anyhow, is very concerning as I see this being ushered in slowly as the global "courts of Justice". The penalty for breaking one is be-heading. These particular "Jews" see Christians as idol worshippers...so, to me this is concerning but everybody is thinking "Sharia law" and fearing it will happen in the US. I do not believe that will ever happen here but, I can see in the Noahide laws becoming a future reality. As you say, "Synagogue of Satan...Jews who say they are Jews but are not, they lie...what better way to get to the only religion/faith that bothers anyone, Christians! They sound right but they are deceiving. I hope you won't beat me up here, lol. There is a ton more to these simple 7 laws and I hope our brothers and sisters do not get caught up in them. It's mostly IMO, Christians who do not know their bible well enough and listen to people like this guy: Google Search

"He who doesn’t have the son doesn’t have the father." 1 John 2:23

It only adds weight to the Protocols of Zion actually being true, if you ask me. Those Protocols, supposedly written by Jewish Zionist Masonry, speaks of their using chaos and revolution to take over the nations, using every kind filth to create a beast atmosphere to overthrow governments and religion, that when they finally get power, then they will reverse that, and force very strong laws and executions for violators.
 

ewq1938

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These particular "Jews" see Christians as idol worshippers...so, to me this is concerning but everybody is thinking "Sharia law" and fearing it will happen in the US. I do not believe that will ever happen here but, I can see in the Noahide laws becoming a future reality.

Neither will happen globally. Something far worse than both is coming though, the MoB and whatever laws and rules the AC institutes. It won't be laws of Islam or Judaism.
 
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Brakelite

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That Wikipedia explanation is just more propaganda by the false-Jews of the "synagogue of Satan."

Anyone who studies God's Word as written, particularly about the SIGNS given in The New Testament by Lord Jesus and His Apostles about the END of this world, should automatically know... there was no way the Antichrist could appear in 16th century Europe as a Catholic pope, even though that is what the Reformers believed.

The SIGNS of the end in God's Word reveals a JEWISH false-Messiah as the coming Antichrist at the END, so shouldn't the Bible student reading that junk from Wikipedia see it as a bit suspect, since nothing... is mentioned there about the actual written Bible requirements for the coming Antichrist appearing in JERUSALEM being from the tribe of Judah, the Jews?
You claim we don't believe or study God word. You speak of signs etc, but ignore the details of prophecy. Daniel 7 speaks of the little horn that would grow from the head of the 4th beast. The 4th beast is the empire which followed immediately after Geeece. What was that power Davy?
 

ewq1938

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You claim we don't believe or study God word. You speak of signs etc, but ignore the details of prophecy. Daniel 7 speaks of the little horn that would grow from the head of the 4th beast. The 4th beast is the empire which followed immediately after Greece.


Greece is not mentioned, nor is Rome. Daniel's 4th beast is destroyed at a coming of God and throne judgment which hasn't happened yet, but Rome fell a long time ago.