Revelation 13:12 says "everyone on earth, will be forced to worship the beast", does that mean everyone on earth needs to repent? (refuse to repent?)

[Luther7]

Nah............. the 'falling away' Apostle Paul mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 2 WAS NOT PAST HISTORY.

It is coupled with the TIMING of 2 Thessalonians 2:4, and both together read...

2 Thess 2:3-4
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
KJV

Amazing... how some, even those who claim... to be educated, can't even follow simple English grammar in the above with how that "Who opposeth and exalteth himself..." beginning of verse 4 cannot be left by itself. That "Who" MUST pick up the subject of the one spoken of in the previous 3rd verse!

I have often heard preachers just omit reading that 4th verse along with that 3rd verse. Thank Christ Jesus we are not all too lazy to go check out the Scripture for ourselves to know those preachers are telling a lie.

Paul's subject about the coming false one, the "man of sin", with his being revealed, then continues with the following...

2 Thess 2:9-12
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

Hummm............; didn't we hear Lord Jesus say something about that false one coming to work "great signs and wonders", and that IF IT WERE POSSIBLE, it would deceive even His "very elect"? Yeah, Jesus warned the Church about that same one above in His Olivet discourse of Matthew 24:23-26. But you very elect in Christ Jesus won't be deceived by that coming false-Messiah; he won't be a temptation to you. Thus you cannot fall away from Christ to that false one.

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
KJV

Did Paul say God would send the deceived out of the Churches to drop Church attendance in past history by that? NO, OF COURSE NOT! Paul warned about that coming "man of sin" to sit in a new stone temple in JERUSALEM at the END of this world, working all power of signs and wonders AS A "STRONG DELUSION" upon those who have not the love of the Truth of God's Word! Thus those will be deceived by that coming "man of sin".

I LAUGH... at those who falsely claim that falling away is about past Church history! What a JOKE!

I just wonder when it is going to become more obvious to " christians" that the noahide laws are the means of preparing the world for the jews messiah, THE MAN OF SIN.

 

[William Barton]

Can I make a small suggestion? First, because the worship you speak of is enforced through government legislation, it hasn't happened yet. Second, the image to the beast, while it is in the process of being set up, isn't up and running, yet. Third, please take some time to discover who the beast actually is, then ask the beast what it's mark is. I'm not sure what you are repenting of... love for the world maybe...that's good. Needs to be done. But I put it to you that what everyone needs to do at this stage of earth's history is to get to know Jesus better. That applies to everyone on the forum, without exception. And everyone not on the forum. Again, without exception. Pray. Constantly. And all Him who the beast is, and let Him, Who is your Shepherd, guide you into all truth. Once you learn that, everything else will make perfect sense and fall into place. Right now, we all have a small window of opportunity before the deception becomes global and so compelling that us, even the elect will be tempted. Even though the elect will understand the truth, they will have to deny self in order to stand. The eyes and ears will behold such things that it will challenge everything we thought we knew. The scriptures, and an unbiased absence of all preconceptions will be the arbiter of truth and error. Feelings, sight, sound, human devising and legal pronouncements from the church using the state to enforce its doctrines, will not be able to convince those who are sealed by the Holy Spirit and have settled into the Truth and are grounded in they remained with Jesus and His Father.

IMO:
"Beast" (Revelation 13:1, Greek θηριογ) is a "wild animal."

"Beast" in Revelation 13:1 is a fallen angel sentenced to the deep, a.k.a. hell, a.k.a. Gehenna (Hebrew בן-הנםגיא = Valley of Hinnom = rubbish heap). He acts like a "beast," and he supports the human beast.

Revelation 13:1 indicates that the beast rises from the sea, suggesting that he had been incarcerated there.

"Earth" in Revelation 13:8 is Greek γη = "land." There was no concept of planet earth in Biblical times.

 

[William Barton]

If Saul was a true believer he would have always had the Holy Spirit, like David, like Abraham, etc.

Saul (apostle Paul) was from Tarsus, a Roman colony, which made him a Roman citizen. See Acts 22:24-29.

 

[Luther7]

Saul (apostle Paul) was from Tarsus, a Roman colony, which made him a Roman citizen. See Acts 22:24-29.

Saul (apostle Paul) was from Tarsus, a Roman colony, which made him a Roman citizen. See Acts 22:24-29.

I was responding to the Saul in the OT.

 

[William Barton]

Can I make a small suggestion? First, because the worship you speak of is enforced through government legislation, it hasn't happened yet. Second, the image to the beast, while it is in the process of being set up, isn't up and running, yet. Third, please take some time to discover who the beast actually is, then ask the beast what it's mark is. I'm not sure what you are repenting of... love for the world maybe...that's good. Needs to be done. But I put it to you that what everyone needs to do at this stage of earth's history is to get to know Jesus better. That applies to everyone on the forum, without exception. And everyone not on the forum. Again, without exception. Pray. Constantly. And all Him who the beast is, and let Him, Who is your Shepherd, guide you into all truth. Once you learn that, everything else will make perfect sense and fall into place. Right now, we all have a small window of opportunity before the deception becomes global and so compelling that us, even the elect will be tempted. Even though the elect will understand the truth, they will have to deny self in order to stand. The eyes and ears will behold such things that it will challenge everything we thought we knew. The scriptures, and an unbiased absence of all preconceptions will be the arbiter of truth and error. Feelings, sight, sound, human devising and legal pronouncements from the church using the state to enforce its doctrines, will not be able to convince those who are sealed by the Holy Spirit and have settled into the Truth and are grounded in they remained with Jesus and His Father.

IMO:
"Beast" refers to a bestial nature. A wild beast, such as a lion, will kill you and experience no remorse.

"Beast" in Revelation 13:1 is a fallen angel sentenced to the "deep," a.k.a. hell, a.k.a. Gehenna (Hebrew בן-הנםגיא = Valley of Hinnom (rubbish heap).

The deep/abyss is not a kingdom, more like a jail within the earth. Revelation 9:11 mentions the deep/abyss (Greek αβυσσος). By contrast Satan roams the earth (1Peter 5:8), so at this time he is not in the deep.

This is not our fight, the angels were here first, but were caught up into it.

Like to know your take on what the "beast" is.
At this point I believe the beast of Revelation is the last ( fourth ) satanic Kingdom of the world.
The mark of the beast ( kingdom) is the BLUE HEXAGRAM, I believe. Most people do not understand who controls the world and who will have the authority to govern this last kingdom with Satan.

The noahide laws will be a gentle way of introducing the terror to be unleashed on the earth once the tribulation/ absence of the Holy Spirit begins.

"Beast" (Revelation13:1) is Greek θηριον = "beast, wild animal, brutish man" ("New Analytical Greek Lexicon," Wesley Perschbacher). He rises out of the sea, suggesting he is a fallen angel sentenced there. See 2Peter 2:4-7, Jude 6-7; also search internet "angels sentenced to the abyss."

"Beasts" in Revelation 13:1-18 are the Anti-Christ and False Prophet (Revelation 13:1-18).

It's in the book, I did not write it, I just read it. :-)

 

[William Barton]

I'm sorry but the literal millennial reign of Christ is a misinterpretation of scripture influenced by talmudic teachings.

They want you to believe that it's not " game over" when Jesus Christ comes. There is no place in Scripture that will support an extended "kingdom" on this sin- cursed earth. That's what the jews believe when " their" messiah comes.

FIRST COMING: Salvation, Gospel, Holy Spirit
SECOND COMING: JUDGMENT.
That's it. New Heavens, new earth.
And here's the part that the Zionist Christian refuses to acknowledge..... because jews are no different, no greater than gentiles in God's NEW COVENANT EYES, they must turn to Jesus NOW before He comes!

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord shall come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens shall pass away with a rushing noise, and the elements, burning with heat, shall be dissolved, both the earth and the works that are in it shall be burned up.
11 Therefore, seeing that all these things shall be dissolved, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness,
12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens, being set of fire, shall be dissolved, and the elements, burning with heat, shall melt?
13 But according to His promise, we look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

Born again Christians are looking for a "new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells." They are not looking to be swept up into the air and fly around while they watch the world crash and burn, only to come back to the same sin- cursed earth ( where righteousness dwells only in Jerusalem, which is definitely not Biblical) only to reign with Christ with the anxiety of knowing that once again they are going to have to deal with Satan IN THE VERY, VERY END when he deceives the nations again? So crazy. So very crazy.

IMO "New heavens and earth" arise after the millennial reign of Jesus (Revelation 20:7-22:21). "Thousand years" is indicated in Revelation 20:2,3.

The rapture, to which you apparently refer, is noted in 1Thessalonians 4:16-17:

"For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel's call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first; then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so we shall always be with the Lord."

The rapture is necessary to remove believers from the coming bowl judgments (Revelation 16:1-22).

(Torture with hot oil poured from bowls was an ancient method of torture.)





"

 

[William Barton]

Can I make a small suggestion? First, because the worship you speak of is enforced through government legislation, it hasn't happened yet. Second, the image to the beast, while it is in the process of being set up, isn't up and running, yet. Third, please take some time to discover who the beast actually is, then ask the beast what it's mark is. I'm not sure what you are repenting of... love for the world maybe...that's good. Needs to be done. But I put it to you that what everyone needs to do at this stage of earth's history is to get to know Jesus better. That applies to everyone on the forum, without exception. And everyone not on the forum. Again, without exception. Pray. Constantly. And all Him who the beast is, and let Him, Who is your Shepherd, guide you into all truth. Once you learn that, everything else will make perfect sense and fall into place. Right now, we all have a small window of opportunity before the deception becomes global and so compelling that us, even the elect will be tempted. Even though the elect will understand the truth, they will have to deny self in order to stand. The eyes and ears will behold such things that it will challenge everything we thought we knew. The scriptures, and an unbiased absence of all preconceptions will be the arbiter of truth and error. Feelings, sight, sound, human devising and legal pronouncements from the church using the state to enforce its doctrines, will not be able to convince those who are sealed by the Holy Spirit and have settled into the Truth and are grounded in they remained with Jesus and His Father.

IMO:
"Beast" refers to a bestial nature. A wild beast, such as a lion, will kill you and experience no remorse.

"Beast" in Revelation 13:1 is a fallen angel sentenced to the "deep," a.k.a. hell, a.k.a. Gehenna (Hebrew בן-הנםגיא = Valley of Hinnom (rubbish heap).

"Seven heads" are seven historic middle-eastern kingdoms ruled by this beast (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome, Israel).

Like to know your take on what the "beast" is.
At this point I believe the beast of Revelation is the last ( fourth ) satanic Kingdom of the world.
The mark of the beast ( kingdom) is the BLUE HEXAGRAM, I believe. Most people do not understand who controls the world and who will have the authority to govern this last kingdom with Satan.

The noahide laws will be a gentle way of introducing the terror to be unleashed on the earth once the tribulation/ absence of the Holy Spirit begins.

 

[Luther7]

IMO "New heavens and earth" arise after the millennial reign of Jesus (Revelation 20:7-22:21).

But that is not what the Bible teaches. Everything in Scripture points to the end of this world followed be a new heavens and earth. No language anywhere of a temporary 1,000 year kingdom for a select group of people.

 

[William Barton]

But that is not what the Bible teaches. Everything in Scripture points to the end of this world followed be a new heavens and earth. No language anywhere of a temporary 1,000 year kingdom for a select group of people.

See Revelation 20:2,7 "thousand years" = "millennium" (etymology is Latin mille= "thousand," annus = "year"). After the 1000 years comes new heavens and earth (Revelation 21:1) as you mentioned.

 

[Davy]

IMO:
"Beast" (Revelation 13:1, Greek θηριογ) is a "wild animal."

"Beast" in Revelation 13:1 is a fallen angel sentenced to the deep, a.k.a. hell, a.k.a. Gehenna (Hebrew בן-הנםגיא = Valley of Hinnom = rubbish heap). He acts like a "beast," and he supports the human beast.

So the 1st beast of Revelation 13:1 that comes up out of the SYMBOLIC SEA is a fallen angel that has TEN HORNS, SEVEN HEADS, AND TEN CROWNS???? Hardly.

The first "beast" of Rev.13:1 is a KINGDOM BEAST. We are told by Jesus in Rev.17 the "ten horns" are "TEN KINGS". So there goes your false assumption down the drain.

Revelation 13:1 indicates that the beast rises from the sea, suggesting that he had been incarcerated there.

There's that materialistic primordial superstitious thinking with the flesh again.

In Rev.17:15 Jesus showed that the "waters" represent "peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues". That's another reason why the 1st beast of Rev.13:1 is a kingdom beast, covering the whole earth, and comes up out of the "sea" of peoples and nations.

"Earth" in Revelation 13:8 is Greek γη = "land." There was no concept of planet earth in Biblical times.

Earth in Rev.13:8 is simply pointing to how the majority of peoples upon the earth will be deceived by that coming "dragon" of verse 4. Trying to separate those other verses from that sole word "earth" is ludicrous.

 

[Davy]

IMO:
"Beast" refers to a bestial nature. A wild beast, such as a lion, will kill you and experience no remorse.

"Beast" in Revelation 13:1 is a fallen angel sentenced to the "deep," a.k.a. hell, a.k.a. Gehenna (Hebrew בן-הנםגיא = Valley of Hinnom (rubbish heap).

There is NO mention of a fallen angel in the Rev.13:1 verse. The word "beast" is used to point to Satan's coming one-world beast kingdom over all peoples and nations. It's that simple. So WHY... does it seem you are TRYING TO HIDE THIS FACT??

The deep/abyss is not a kingdom, more like a jail within the earth. Revelation 9:11 mentions the deep/abyss (Greek αβυσσος). By contrast Satan roams the earth (1Peter 5:8), so at this time he is not in the deep.

Satan is a HEAVENLY BEING, A CHERUB. And in the Heavenly dimension is where his dwelling of hell (Hades) is. That is also known as the abyss, or pit, bottomless pit, which are EXPRESSIONS.

Per Luke 16, the abode of hell is across a great gulf fixed border in Paradise, in the HEAVENLY DIMENSION. The rich man in hell could see and talk to Abraham who was on the other side of Paradise.

 

[Luther7]

There is NO mention of a fallen angel in the Rev.13:1 verse. The word "beast" is used to point to Satan's coming one-world beast kingdom over all peoples and nations. It's that simple. So WHY... does it seem you are TRYING TO HIDE THIS FACT??




Satan is a HEAVENLY BEING, A CHERUB. And in the Heavenly dimension is where his dwelling of hell (Hades) is. That is also known as the abyss, or pit, bottomless pit, which are EXPRESSIONS.

Per Luke 16, the abode of hell is across a great gulf fixed border in Paradise, in the HEAVENLY DIMENSION. The rich man in hell could see and talk to Abraham who was on the other side of Paradise.

You said: "Per Luke 16, the abode of hell is across a great gulf fixed border in Paradise, in the HEAVENLY DIMENSION. The rich man in hell could see and talk to Abraham who was on the other side of Paradise"

Really. You were just talking about "expressions". How about this: Luke 16 is a parable, an earthly story we can relate to that has deeper spiritual meaning. Unless you really think that the rich man could dip his finger in cold water in a " place" called " hell".

 

[William Barton]

So the 1st beast of Revelation 13:1 that comes up out of the SYMBOLIC SEA is a fallen angel that has TEN HORNS, SEVEN HEADS, AND TEN CROWNS???? Hardly.

The first "beast" of Rev.13:1 is a KINGDOM BEAST. We are told by Jesus in Rev.17 the "ten horns" are "TEN KINGS". So there goes your false assumption down the drain.


There's that materialistic primordial superstitious thinking with the flesh again.

In Rev.17:15 Jesus showed that the "waters" represent "peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues". That's another reason why the 1st beast of Rev.13:1 is a kingdom beast, covering the whole earth, and comes up out of the "sea" of peoples and nations.

Earth in Rev.13:8 is simply pointing to how the majority of peoples upon the earth will be deceived by that coming "dragon" of verse 4. Trying to separate those other verses from that sole word "earth" is ludicrous.

IMO:
o "Ten horns" (Revelation 17:12) refers to 10 rulers/countries, not yet come, who will rule in the Middle East at a time future to today.

o "Seven heads" (Revelation 13:1) refers to seven historic kingdoms that have ruled in the Middle East (see Revelation 17:12). These are Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Media-Persia, Greece, Rome, the Beast (Revelation 7:11). "Seven" = "completion."

The beast becomes an "eighth" when he is joined by a fallen angel from the abyss (Revelation 13:1-2).

 

[William Barton]

IMO:
o "Ten horns" (Revelation 17:12) refers to 10 rulers, not yet come, who will rule in the Middle East at a time future to today.

o "Seven heads" (Revelation 13:1) refers to seven historic kingdoms that rule in the Middle East (see Revelation 17:12). These are Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Greece, Persia, Greece, Rome ("seven" being the number of "completion/perfection"). The rule of the beast will be the eighth (Revelation 17:11), not so perfect.

 

[William Barton]

I was responding to the Saul in the OT.

Right, he had his problems, always worried about losing his kingship, and I suppose rightfully so.

 

[Luther7]

IMO:
o "Ten horns" (Revelation 17:12) refers to 10 rulers/countries, not yet come, who will rule in the Middle East at a time future to today.

o "Seven heads" (Revelation 13:1) refers to seven historic kingdoms that have ruled in the Middle East (see Revelation 17:12). These are Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Media-Persia, Greece, Rome, the Beast (Revelation 7:11) "seven" = "completion."

The beast becomes an "eighth" when he is joined by a fallen angel from the abyss (Revelation 13:1-2)

I agree. But I do believe that Israel ( the zionists) must be taken down before these " complete" nations have power:

Revelation 17:16 KJV - 16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

 

[Davy]

I agree. But I do believe that Israel ( the zionists) must be taken down before these " complete" nations have power:

Revelation 17:16 KJV - 16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

It will be those Zionists that will create control over all nations, and will themselves reign over it all. They represent the leaders in Jerusalem, making Jerusalem at the END the Babylon Harlot, for the great whore we are told is a "great city", which Rev.11:8 reveals is Jerusalem fallen into idol worship at the END of this world.

 

[Luther7]

It will be those Zionists that will create control over all nations, and will themselves reign over it all. They represent the leaders in Jerusalem, making Jerusalem at the END the Babylon Harlot, for the great whore we are told is a "great city", which Rev.11:8 reveals is Jerusalem fallen into idol worship at the END of this world.

I agree. They pretty much control everything now.

 

[William Barton]

I was responding to the Saul in the OT.

Saul in the OT (1Samuel 13:1) ruled Israel two years. God sent the Spirit after the death of Jesus (Acts 2:17-28).

But that is not what the Bible teaches. Everything in Scripture points to the end of this world followed be a new heavens and earth. No language anywhere of a temporary 1,000 year kingdom for a select group of people.

Luther7 noted:
>no language anywhere of a temporary 1000 year kingdom."

It's called the "millennial reign of Jesus." See Revelation 20:2.

So the 1st beast of Revelation 13:1 that comes up out of the SYMBOLIC SEA is a fallen angel that has TEN HORNS, SEVEN HEADS, AND TEN CROWNS???? Hardly.

The first "beast" of Rev.13:1 is a KINGDOM BEAST. We are told by Jesus in Rev.17 the "ten horns" are "TEN KINGS". So there goes your false assumption down the drain.




There's that materialistic primordial superstitious thinking with the fleshgain.

In Rev.17:15 Jesus showed that the "waters" represent "peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues". That's another reason why the 1st beast of Rev.13:1 is a kingdom beast, covering the whole earth, and comes up out of the "sea" of peoples and nations.




Earth in Rev.13:8 is simply pointing to how the majority of peoples upon the earth will be deceived by that coming "dragon" of verse 4. Trying to separate those other verses from that sole word "earth" is ludicrous

In Revelation 17:9 "seven heads, seven mountains" refers to seven historic kingdoms that would maintain order in the Middle East:

o Egypt
o Assyria
o Babylon
o Persia
o Greece
o Rome
o Antichrist

Cities were typically built on mountains/hills for defensive purposes:
1. Early warning and surveillance
2. Natural barriers
3. Fortification advantages (walls, towers, ramparts).

"City of many waters" = Babylon (Jeremiah 51:13).

 

[William Barton]

IMO:
"Beast" refers to a bestial nature. A wild beast, such as a lion, will kill you and experience no remorse.

"Beast" in Revelation 13:1 is a fallen angel sentenced to the "deep," a.k.a. hell, a.k.a. Gehenna (Hebrew בן-הנםגיא = Valley of Hinnom (rubbish heap).

"Seven heads" are seven historic middle-eastern kingdoms ruled by this beast (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome, Israel).

IMO "mark of the beast" is perhaps a tiny chip inserted into the hand or forehead, like a credit-card chip. It's a means of controlling people. Anyone who rebels gets his/her number deleted, making it difficult to buy necessities. Scary.

"Ten horns, ten crowns" (Revelation 17:12-13) refers to ten Middle-Eastern countries that submit to an agreement proposed by Anti-Christ. He brokers a peace treaty whereby they cease warring with each other. War is hell, and everyone therefore is much happier, at least for awhile.

I will say again, IMO the strife focuses on the Middle East, and God's chosen city Jerusalem (2Chronicles 6:6), not other areas.

"Abyss" is Greek αβυσσος = "unfathomable" (Oxford Greek Dictionary). "Unfathomable" indicates really, really, deep, no practical way to measure."