Reason for The Crusades explained
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Wrangler
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Exactly! I’ve said as much to him.
Funny how political correctness has affected the church. Can’t call things by their proper name. It offends people.
@Matthias certainly is not a Christian apologist! When he runs out of things to condemn Christian’s about, he invents pacifist standards to condemn us. Meanwhile, only lip service about Muslim atrocities for centuries.
Early on, like the 2nd page, I pointed out how this thread about the reasons FOR the crusades but he posts like it's the reasons AGAINST. This is his Crusade.
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While those two are busy entertaining themselves by slandering me in this thread - and at least one other thread which I only learned about due to receiving a notification that I was mentioned there - I want to encourage my readers to read the history of the Crusades. Despite what you’ve heard from my detractors, I’ve stood firm against the Muslims and I’ve stood firm against the Crusaders. Neither side treated the other side the way Jesus and the apostles taught the followers of Jesus to treat their enemies.
But above all, I want my readers to read Jesus and the apostles. They practiced what they taught and they expected all of the followers of Jesus to teach and practice the same until the end of the age.
I‘ve taken a stand against evil. Evil has responded. I’ll be vindicated.
Keep your eyes and ears on Jesus. Obey him in every circumstance.
But above all, I want my readers to read Jesus and the apostles. They practiced what they taught and they expected all of the followers of Jesus to teach and practice the same until the end of the age.
I‘ve taken a stand against evil. Evil has responded. I’ll be vindicated.
Keep your eyes and ears on Jesus. Obey him in every circumstance.
soberxp
Well-Known Member
Love your enemies? You are so hate the Muslims.....
LOL....no one really Obey the Jesus Christ.
Your lips say you love Jesus.....but your heart....
LOL....no one really Obey the Jesus Christ.
Your lips say you love Jesus.....but your heart....
Wrangler
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Wick Stick
Well-Known Member
I don't think it's that simple.
In the Old Testament the LORD ordered a genocide... more than once. He told His people to do the job.
If that's true - and it is - then "love your enemy" isn't a commandment for every time and place.
So then, when/where are we supposed to love our enemy, and when/where are we supposed to make war?
I don’t know who you are posting to but I don’t hate the Muslims. Even those who are falsely accusing me of being a Muslim apologist should agree with me about that.
It’s not a laughing matter. Those who don’t need to repent.
“Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.” Again, I don’t know who you are posting to but my heart matches the words that come from my lips.
“My own posture is one of pacifism, and here is the logic that I find compelling:
I cannot kill a non-Christian, for whom Christ died and to whom I am called to preach the gospel, for the state; that would be rendering to Caesar what is God’s and deconstruct the kingdom mission.
I cannot kill a fellow Christian for the state; that would be rendering to Caesar what is God’s. My first allegiance is to the King and to his Kingdom people.
I am called to cooperate with the state to the degree it is consistent with the kingdom; I cannot in good conscience cooperate with the state when it is inconsistent with the kingdom; that would be to render to Caesar what is God’s. …”
(Scot McKnight)
kingdomharbor.com
I cannot kill a non-Christian, for whom Christ died and to whom I am called to preach the gospel, for the state; that would be rendering to Caesar what is God’s and deconstruct the kingdom mission.
I cannot kill a fellow Christian for the state; that would be rendering to Caesar what is God’s. My first allegiance is to the King and to his Kingdom people.
I am called to cooperate with the state to the degree it is consistent with the kingdom; I cannot in good conscience cooperate with the state when it is inconsistent with the kingdom; that would be to render to Caesar what is God’s. …”
(Scot McKnight)
Scot McKnight on Christian Pacifism
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also……
kingdomharbor.com
Armour of God
Well-Known Member
Wick Stick
Well-Known Member
There are actually two sets of instructions for that in the Bible
1. Resist an accuser
2. Flee temptation
It's needful to identify the nature of your battle, in order to respond correctly.
“I can’t say it anymore plainly than this: Violence is not a Christian value!”
(Paul R. Graves)
um-insight.net
If what the pastor said is true, then what’s that in your hand, Crusader?
Violence is a Christian value in the mind of the Crusader. Violence is an Islamic value in the mind of the Muslim.
(Paul R. Graves)
Is Violence a Christian Value? No!
Jesus never condoned violence for his disciples or other followers. Why would any current-day followers of Jesus even consider that Jesus’ ethic of love be associated with violence in action and/or word? Yet, there it is.
um-insight.net
If what the pastor said is true, then what’s that in your hand, Crusader?
Violence is a Christian value in the mind of the Crusader. Violence is an Islamic value in the mind of the Muslim.
I’ve taught Christian Apologetics courses in Bible colleges on two continents (North America and Africa).
The linked Lifeway research survey is getting a little long in the tooth now but it reveals that in 2020 many pastors and their congregations had never heard of the “You are not following Jesus if you aren’t armed, ready to kill” teaching. They stand falsely accused of not following Jesus by the member on this forum who came up with the novelty.
Most Churches Plan for Potential Gunman, Divided Over Armed Congregants - Lifeway Research
Most Protestant pastors say their congregations have taken some precautions to protect those in attendance from a church shooting.
research.lifeway.com
P.S.
I was raised in the Southern Baptist Church in the 1960’s and 1970’s. There were no guns in the church I attended in those days. I visited a Baptist Church near where I live now last month. There were many guns in the church.
1960’s / 1970’s -> “You are not following Jesus if you aren’t armed, ready to kill” didn’t exist. Zero sermons on the teaching.
How many sermons on the teaching now?
How many sermons from Jesus and the apostles on the teaching? Zero.
Jesus and the apostles never made being “armed, ready to kill” a condition for following Jesus. Don’t require what he and they didn’t.
P.P.S.
I was baptized in the Southern Baptist Church (on September 24,1978.) The pastor asked me a number of questions before he agreed to baptize me. “Are you armed, ready to kill?” wasn’t one of them. It never would have crossed his mind, nor mine.
My grandfather was a deacon in the church. I never saw him (nor my grandmother) armed with a weapon of the world. He spoke with me often (she did too) about following Jesus. He never once (nor did she) mentioned “being armed, ready to kill.”
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I don’t trust AI but I just used it to ask: “Is there any church in the world that teaches “You are not following Jesus if you aren’t armed, ready to kill?”
AI replied:
“Based on current search results, there is no major, mainstream church denomination in the world that officially teaches ‘You aren’t a follower of Jesus if you aren’t armed, ready to kill.’
However, a niche extremist group, often described as a ‘gun-advocating church,’ has promoted a theology that closely mirrors this sentiment.
Here are the details regarding this topic:
• Extremist Views (Rod of Iron Ministries) : A group known as Rod of Iron Ministries, which has acquired land in Tennessee, is known for its advicacy of the Second Amendment as a core part of its faith. Their leader has appeared with a crown of bullets, and members have been known to carry weapons during services. They believe that owning a rifle is a fundamental aspect of their faith for self-defense.
• ’Guns for God’ Mentality : This group often links the use of firearms fir self-defense and protection to the ‘protection of sheep,’ arguing that an armed citizenry can stop evil.
• ’Armed to Protect’ Advocacy : Some smaller, independent, or specifically, American ‘gun carrying’ churches argue that it is a ‘biblical duty’ to protect one’s family and community, including being armed, though they often focus on ‘protecting the innocent’ rather than an active command to be ‘ready to kill’ at all times.
• Contrary Christian Teachings : The vast majority of Christian denominations — including Catholic, Protestant, and Orthodox - teach a message of peace, nonviolence, and ‘turning the other cheek’. Historic Peace Churches, such as Quakers and Mennonites, explicitly reject the use of violence, arguing that it is incompatible with following Jesus.
• Context of Self-Defense : Many conservative churches may defend the right to bear arms or provide armed security, but do not equate carrying a weapon with the condition for veing a follower of Jesus.
In summary, while no large-scale, recognized denimination requires members to be armed and ready to kill as a condition of their faith, a small, fringe movement in the U.S. does promote a ‘rod of iron’ ideology that interprets the Bible as requiring armed readiness.”
Take it for what it’s worth. Please note that I’m not implying nor inferring that any member of Christianity Board has any connection whatsoever with any of the niche extremist / fringe groups mentioned by AI, nor with any other such group or groups not mentioned by AI.
AI replied:
“Based on current search results, there is no major, mainstream church denomination in the world that officially teaches ‘You aren’t a follower of Jesus if you aren’t armed, ready to kill.’
However, a niche extremist group, often described as a ‘gun-advocating church,’ has promoted a theology that closely mirrors this sentiment.
Here are the details regarding this topic:
• Extremist Views (Rod of Iron Ministries) : A group known as Rod of Iron Ministries, which has acquired land in Tennessee, is known for its advicacy of the Second Amendment as a core part of its faith. Their leader has appeared with a crown of bullets, and members have been known to carry weapons during services. They believe that owning a rifle is a fundamental aspect of their faith for self-defense.
• ’Guns for God’ Mentality : This group often links the use of firearms fir self-defense and protection to the ‘protection of sheep,’ arguing that an armed citizenry can stop evil.
• ’Armed to Protect’ Advocacy : Some smaller, independent, or specifically, American ‘gun carrying’ churches argue that it is a ‘biblical duty’ to protect one’s family and community, including being armed, though they often focus on ‘protecting the innocent’ rather than an active command to be ‘ready to kill’ at all times.
• Contrary Christian Teachings : The vast majority of Christian denominations — including Catholic, Protestant, and Orthodox - teach a message of peace, nonviolence, and ‘turning the other cheek’. Historic Peace Churches, such as Quakers and Mennonites, explicitly reject the use of violence, arguing that it is incompatible with following Jesus.
• Context of Self-Defense : Many conservative churches may defend the right to bear arms or provide armed security, but do not equate carrying a weapon with the condition for veing a follower of Jesus.
In summary, while no large-scale, recognized denimination requires members to be armed and ready to kill as a condition of their faith, a small, fringe movement in the U.S. does promote a ‘rod of iron’ ideology that interprets the Bible as requiring armed readiness.”
Take it for what it’s worth. Please note that I’m not implying nor inferring that any member of Christianity Board has any connection whatsoever with any of the niche extremist / fringe groups mentioned by AI, nor with any other such group or groups not mentioned by AI.
Pavel Mosko
Active Member
I actually believe in the basic notion of the Crusades but was against how they are carried out. Christianity has definitely got pacifistic sentiments coming from Jesus, but that does not fit the entire Bible, nor do you see negative evaluations against soldiers coming from Jesus relating to Roman Centurions etc. Our societies concept of the right of self defense comes from the Bible, it is actually the role of leadership to provide protection of the people under their care. I actually believe the Crusades should have been fought, but done to boot Islam out of Europe and to protect Europe from Islamic conquest. It is a sad thing to see Christian societies living under Islamic rule for centuries, and the Gospel itself is heavily restricted in reaching other nations when you got Satan's boot on your throat.
Wrangler
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Inappropriate. The Islamic Jihad against Europe for centuries was not an accusation. Try this Biblical instruction for doing far less: 1 Samuel 15:3
3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy[a] all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”
Would you say that it is a sad thing to see Christians living under Roman rule for centuries until the time of Constantine? Do you think they had “Satan’s boot on your throat”?
Do you see no difference in the way the Israelites lived and interacted with their enemies in the Hebrew Bible and the way Christians lived and interacted with their enemies in the New Testament?
Consider this: Jesus brings a new way of living.
The NT biblical instruction is not “put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.”
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