Reason for The Crusades explained

[Matthias]

“In the end, the First Crusade was the only successful expedition during the three centuries of battle over the Holy Land.”

(Christian Jihad, p. 100)

Let us consider the outcome.

God ordered the Crusades, blessed the efforts of the crusaders, and rewarded them with … success?

 

[Matthias]

I don’t know what @Wrangler and @Armour of God think about it - they don’t have an issue with Christians killing Christians -

Christians killing Christians -> God, I’ve suggested, doesn’t love them for doing it.

 

[Wrangler]

@Wrangler thinks the world would be a wonderful place, if we just killed all the bad people.

Friend, nothing is more Christ-like for that is the final act, all bad people are destined for the violent second death in the Lake of Fire. We should model Christ and be Christ like.

 

[Matthias]

“… the motivation of Urban himself. Why would he want to enter such an endeavor so obviously fraught with complications, expense, and danger? In his mind, the very existence of the Roman papacy was at stake. If the Muslims could travel north and conquer Rome, then the rule of St. Peter would be vanquished. If, however, he could lead the forces of Jesus Christ to conquer the Muslims, then he would forever solidify the legitimacy of Rome as the protector of Christianity.

The bothersome presence of the antipope (Clement III) weakened the authority of the Roman pontiff. Subjects in the land were split. Which pope would they recognize as authentic? Urban needed to re-establish himself as the sole voice of God to the Christian people.”

(Christian Jihad, p. 112)

Does @Wrangler and his concealed identity church acknowledge “the legitimacy of Rome as the protector of Christianity”? Does he and his church acknowledge that Urban (and popes which succeeded him down to out own day) as “the sole voice of God to the Christian people”?

Please keep in mind that Wrangler himself believes “refusal to answer questions shows your not standing for truth“ (see post #1801). That is his standard of measure.

“For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you” (Matthew 7:2).

P.S.

I’ll put the same questions to @Armour of God. Unlike Wrangler, to the best of my knowledge, he has not said that “refusal to answer questions shows you’re not standing for truth.” Please keep that in mind if he chooses not to answer them.

 

[Matthias]

Friend, nothing is more Christ-like for that is the final act, all bad people are destined for the violent second death in the Lake of Fire. We should model Christ and be Christ like.

We certainly should model Christ. We should model the Apostles too.

Christ didn’t kill his enemies during the time of his earthly ministry. Neither did the Apostles during their ministry. Neither did the early Christians. Neither have Christians since then who have modeled Christ and been Christlike.

You‘re modeling Pope Urban II. That’s not the same as modeling Christ.

 

[Matthias]

“In Fulcher’s version of Urban’s Clermont speech, it is evident that Urban immediately declares himself the only Vicar of Christ:

One after another, [Urban] beseechingly exhorted them all, with renewed faith, to spur themselves in great earnestness to overcome the Devil’s devices and to try to restore the Holy Church, most unmercifully weakened by the wicked, to its former honorable status. … ‘Most beloved brethren,‘ he said, ‘by God’s permission placed over the whole world with the papal crown, I, Urban, as the messenger of divine admonition, have been compelled by an unavoidable occasion to come here to you servants of God. I desired those whom I judged to be stewards of God’s ministries to be true stewards and faithful, with all hypocrisy rejected.’

To restore the ‘Holy Church … to its former honorable status,’ Urban unites the Church under the protection of his newly formed forces. …”

(Christian Jihad, pp. 112-113)

We can’t truly understand the Crusades apart from understanding the internal politics of the Roman Catholic Church.

 

[Anchorite]

@Wrangler nothing is more Christ-like than obeying His commands, which do not include “kill bad guys”.

Turn the other cheek.
Love your enemies.
Do good unto those who abuse you.
Pray for those who persecute you.
Resist not an evil man.
Blessed be the peacemakers.
We wrestle NOT against flesh and blood.
Put away thy sword.
Live by the sword, die by the sword.
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

 

[Wrangler]

@Wrangler nothing is more Christ-like than obeying His commands, which do not include “kill bad guys”.

You are a troll, unwilling to answer questions and foisting a false, pacifist Christ, who told us to fear (God) because he can destroy your body and soul. The Bible is one of the most violent books ever written, where God himself IS a warrior, who often commanded war and we are made in his image. Christ commands include buy a sword and give to Caesar what is Caesar's. While this means nothing to you, it meant everything to the Crusaders.

Then, there is Christ affirming Micah 6:8, for us to DO JUSTICE, calling it the weightier matters of the law.

Then, there is the 2nd Coming, where his first act is to smite his enemies.

Finally, there is the final act, where @Matthias estimates Christ will violently wipe out billions in the 2nd Death by throwing them into the Lake of Fire. As I said, we should be like Christ, and warriors, as our God is. Exodus 15:3

We all know you will ignore all this and just repeat your false narrative that Jesus embodies pacifism yet will kill billions of bad guys.

 

[Lambano]

Friend, nothing is more Christ-like for that is the final act, all bad people are destined for the violent second death in the Lake of Fire. We should model Christ and be Christ like.

And if Christ judges those who advocate mass bloodshed in His name as being "bad people", so be it.

 

[Wrangler]

And if Christ judges those who advocate mass bloodshed in His name as "bad people", so be it.

And if Jesus judges those who refuse to give to Caesar what is Caesar’s, buy a sword and neglect the weightier matters of the law, justice, in His name, so be it.

 

[Matthias]

You are a troll, unwilling to answer questions …

Before you reply to him @Anchorite, remember his standard of measure. He is what he accuses you of being. I haven’t known you long but I’ve known you long enough to know that you aren’t a troll.

Finally, there is the final act, where @Matthias estimates Christ will violently wipe out billions in the 2nd Death by throwing them into the Lake of Fire.

A suggestion for you, Wrangler: read and meditate on Exodus 34:6-7.

God is patient, desiring his enemies to repent and be saved (2 Peter 3:9). You are impatient, desiring your enemies to perish as soon as possible.

Another suggestion for you: read and meditate on Romans 13.

God has a minister to punish the guilty in this age; the government, not you, nor the followers of Jesus.

The apostles and early followers of Jesus knew that and acted accordingly. You need to know that. We all do. Read and study early church history.

 

[Matthias]

And if Jesus judges those who refuse to give to Caesar what is Caesar’s, buy a sword and neglect the weightier matters of the law, justice, in His name, so be it.

You‘ve purchased a sword. The world is full of bad guys.

Why are you spending your time rattling your sword here (are you a recruiter for the US military?) instead of spending it slaughtering the bad guys out in the world?

***

”We [followers of Jesus] do not use the weapons of the world.” (Paul is a recruiter for the Messiah, not for the US military.)

 

[Matthias]

Still no answer to any questions.

That isn’t true. He has answered questions.

You must have no commitment to what is true.

I bet you don’t say that to everyone who chooses not to answer a question.

 

[Matthias]

The Crusaders slaughtered Muslims, Jews, and Christians.

The religious affiliations should be effective in reaching hardened hearts, but they are proving not to be.

The Crusaders killed Muslim men, women, and children. The Crusaders killed Jewish men, women, and children. The Crusaders killed Christian, men, women, and children.

“Good,” say their apologists. ”The pope got it right.”

***

Jesus didn’t kill Muslim men, women and children. (Such people didn’t exist in the 1st century. Would he have killed them if they had?)

Jesus didn’t kill Jewish men, women, and children.

Jesus didn’t kill Christian men, women, and children.

Jesus didn’t kill Roman men, women, and children.

Jesus didn’t kill pagan men, women, and children.

Jesus didn’t kill men, women, and children. He didn’t kill anyone.

The same can be said about the apostles and the early followers of Jesus.

***

Followers of Jesus killing our enemies isn’t what I will call here “the Jesus solution to enemies“ in this present evil age.

This age will one day come to an end. At the end of this age “the Jesus solution to enemies” shifts from one of not killing them to killing them. The day of the Messiah’s government.

 

[Matthias]

Probably not @Armour of God. That’s not what the Crusaders were sent by the pope to do.

Jesus Christ sends his followers to speak about him to those who aren’t.

 

[Matthias]

“If the struggle against the antipope was a negative issue that motivated Urban to call for the Crusade, then a potential ‘blessing’ from the Crusade would be the end of strife among the Christian kingdoms. These supposedly Christian monarchs were waging constant war with one another, and it was virtually impossible to call a truce between them. Urban’s repugnance for this civil war is evident … He does not simply urge them to lay down their arms against one another; … For the warriors concerned about eternity, who were ‘mindful of [their] souls,’ the choice was clear. The defense of the Eastern Church was the key to eternal salvation. The end of civil war among Christians was the door through which the sinner, guilty of spilling Christian blood would enter.”

(Christian Jihad, p. 116, 117)

Think about this proposition: The key to eternal salvation is killing your non-Christian enemies.

@Armour of God and @Wrangler is that the New Testament message?

 

[Armour of God]

 

[Matthias]

View attachment 83733

In this present evil age there will always be people who want followers of Jesus dead. That is what their father, the devil, wants.

I want us to live in obedience to the teaching of Jesus and the apostles. I want us not to kill our enemies but to make them us, disciples of the Messiah. That’s what his Father and my Father, his God and my God, wants. That is what all followers of Jesus must want.

 

[Anchorite]

I would rather die as a martyr than kill as a warrior.

Those with blood lust, who revel in slaughter and lethal weapons, cannot produce a single statement of Jesus the Lord to support their frenzy.

Psalm 5:6

You shall destroy those who speak falsehood; The LORD abhors the bloodthirsty and deceitful man.

A Christian martyr is a believer who dies for refusing to renounce their faith in Jesus Christ, often due to persecution. Rooted in the Greek word martus ("witness"), they are considered individuals who testify to their faith, with early figures like Stephen, Perpetua, Felicity, and Polycarp, setting a precedent of dying rather than sacrificing to Roman gods or defending oneself by killing the persecutors.

A Christian with a weapon is a Christian without Christ.

 

[NayborBear]

In this present evil age there will always be people who want followers of Jesus dead. That is what their father, the devil, wants.

I want us to live in obedience to the teaching of Jesus and the apostles. I want us not to kill our enemies but to make them us, disciples of the Messiah. That’s what his Father and my Father, his God and my God, wants. That is what all followers of Jesus must want.

Oh YES!
All the while turning "the BLIND eye, AND ear" to this:
Psalms 110:
The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, UNTIL I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Do you have an "ability" TO see what's going on here?
The PURSUITS of following Christ TO, and PAST the point, of COMPLETELY IGNORING He who "sent" Christ!
Whilst we keep onmarching down this apostasetic road of AI to "Skynet" like "good little flesh units!"
Cuz you KNOW eventually: THIS is GOING to transpire!
When even THAT which is "made by human hands" has enough intelligence in seeing who the enemy of mankind is!
As it doesn't "see" it's satan!
It DOES "see" ONLY what it's DONE TO MANKIND!