We can't Earn : What is FREE

[Shalomhalom]

I believe the dividing lines is "works" is a derogatory term that people apply to earning their own salvation

Exactly, this truly is the dividing line. Works don’t earn justification, they prove that you are really justified in the first place.

I mean, even unbelievers do owe absolute obedience to their Creator. That’s why they’re in trouble, and need salvation. But then, all of the sudden, once you believe in Christ, some people seem to think now they don’t owe obedience unto God, anymore.

 

[Grailhunter]

Hello.

I believe both sides here are wrong, but both have truth in them.

Works are necessary, but they are not meritorious. Thats the solution.

So, are we commanded to do good works? Surely we are, as the Scriptures cited clearly show. According to Ephesians, we are also said to be saved unto good works.

But does that mean we are justified by these works? No, we are justified by faith alone in Christ alone. But the idea is, we are justified by faith alone, but that very faith never comes alone. A person who has true faith will also, together with that faith, have good works.

The two positions taken in this thread are these:

Faith + Works -> Justification
Faith -> Justification - Works

The first is a form of legalism, which Paul denies, since we are said to be justified apart from the works of the law.
The second is a form of antinomianism, which Paul also denies, because we can no longer live in sin since we are dead to sin.

So the solution is this:

Faith -> Justification + Works

If we have faith, we are truly justified based solely on that faith. But that justified estate of ours will also definitely produce good works, which nevertheless play no part in our justification. That is the position of the classical Protestant Reformers, set down in their creeds. I believe this beautifully brings these seemingly contradictory things (faith & works) together.

I hope that helps!

Some of this can be confusing but your right about most of it.
When the statements regarding works occur in the New Testament it is usually referring to observing the Mosaic Law which has nothing to do with salvation.

The Greek word for works can also be translated to deeds. Are Christians required to do good deeds? Yes. But it has nothing to do with salvation. It is just what Christian do. Good deeds cannot save you but not doing them can cause you to go to Hell. Love one another. Read the story of the Sheep and the Goats and note what happens to those that do not help one another.

Leading a moral life is not what saves you but not leaving a moral life can lead to Hell.

Salvation is a free gift, but to be eligible for that "Free Gift" we start the process by believing....repenting..... baptism and the Bread and Wine ritual. Thing we have to do to be eligible for salvation. Can we be saved without repentance and baptism and the Bread and Wine ritual? You can try it a find out.

 

[saved by grace 101]

Some of this can be confusing but your right about most of it.
When the statements regarding works occur in the New Testament it is usually referring to observing the Mosaic Law which has nothing to do with salvation.

I dont specifically know what ''works'' you are referring to, but when Paul uses the phrase, works of the law/observing the law, this is mainly because of the moral law of the TC, not the mosaic law

 

[Grailhunter]

I dont specifically know what ''works'' you are referring to, but when Paul uses the phrase, works of the law/observing the law, this is mainly because of the moral law of the TC, not the mosaic law

No.
So many people do not know what the Ten Commands are. It is actually kind of funny. The ten laws that God called the Ten Commands and told Moses to write them on the Tablets of the Testimony are in Exodus chapter 34 not chapter 20. LOL The ten laws in chapter 20 are actually summaries of the Mosaic Laws....you can find each of them in the 613 Mosaic Laws. Things like observing the Jewish Saturday Sabbith....the prohibition of engraved images and wives as property do not apply to Christians. No Old Testament Law pertain to Christians.
The morals that carry over to Christians are specifically stated in the New Testament, but they not as Laws.... Laws are an entirely different system and breaking them cannot be forgiven, that is one of the reasons that there was no salvation in the Old Testament.

And yes what Paul was referring to was the Mosaic Law.

It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery. Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you. And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
Galatians 5:1-4

Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin. Romans 3:19-20

Yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified. Galatians 2:16

For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them. Galatians 3:10

For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. Galatians 3:28

But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Galatians 5:18

Stay away from Old Testament Laws and Commandment they are for Jews. Christians have a new covenant with God. We should follow the teachings of Yeshua and the Apostles.

 

[Shalomhalom]

But it has nothing to do with salvation.

Some Christians make a distinction here (and I think a very helpful one):

Salvation requires works.
Justification does not.

The idea here is, that salvation is the overarching term, which includes justification, but is not restricted to it. Many things are required for salvation, as good works. But justification is a specific act of God himself, whereby he declares a person just. And God looks only at the faith when he declares a person just, nothing else.

Works are also not restricted to mosaic institutions, you yourself quoted many Verses, which say that “those who do these things do not inherit the kingdom of God”, which have nothing to do with ceremonial but moral works or deeds. But God, in the time of the mosaic dispensation, required the one as well as the other. Not so now. The works specific to Moses ceased, but the moral law is binding forever, for the believer as well as the unbeliever.

 

[saved by grace 101]

No.
So many people do not know what the Ten Commands are. It is actually kind of funny. The ten laws that God called the Ten Commands and told Moses to write them on the Tablets of the Testimony are in Exodus chapter 34 not chapter 20. LOL The ten laws in chapter 20 are actually summaries of the Mosaic Laws....you can find each of them in the 613 Mosaic Laws. Things like observing the Jewish Saturday Sabbith....the prohibition of engraved images and wives as property do not apply to Christians. No Old Testament Law pertain to Christians.
The morals that carry over to Christians are specifically stated in the New Testament, but they not as Laws.... Laws are an entirely different system and breaking them cannot be forgiven, that is one of the reasons that there was no salvation in the Old Testament.

And yes what Paul was referring to was the Mosaic Law.

It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery. Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you. And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
Galatians 5:1-4

Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin. Romans 3:19-20

Yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified. Galatians 2:16

For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them. Galatians 3:10

For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. Galatians 3:28

But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Galatians 5:18

Stay away from Old Testament Laws and Commandment they are for Jews. Christians have a new covenant with God. We should follow the teachings of Yeshua and the Apostles.

The Lord said to Moses, “Chisel out two stone tablets like the first ones, and I WILL WRITE ON THEM THE WORDS THAT WERE ON THE FIRST TABLETS, which you broke. Ex34:1

 

[saved by grace 101]

No.
So many people do not know what the Ten Commands are. It is actually kind of funny. The ten laws that God called the Ten Commands and told Moses to write them on the Tablets of the Testimony are in Exodus chapter 34 not chapter 20. LOL The ten laws in chapter 20 are actually summaries of the Mosaic Laws....you can find each of them in the 613 Mosaic Laws. Things like observing the Jewish Saturday Sabbith....the prohibition of engraved images and wives as property do not apply to Christians. No Old Testament Law pertain to Christians.
The morals that carry over to Christians are specifically stated in the New Testament, but they not as Laws.... Laws are an entirely different system and breaking them cannot be forgiven, that is one of the reasons that there was no salvation in the Old Testament.

And yes what Paul was referring to was the Mosaic Law.

It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery. Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you. And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
Galatians 5:1-4

Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin. Romans 3:19-20

Yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified. Galatians 2:16

For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them. Galatians 3:10

For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. Galatians 3:28

But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Galatians 5:18

Stay away from Old Testament Laws and Commandment they are for Jews. Christians have a new covenant with God. We should follow the teachings of Yeshua and the Apostles.

Two things:
Galatians 2:16&Gal3:10 are primarily written because of the law twice engraved in stone. Apart from the moral law the law could faultlessly be obeyed, even by the worst of sinners(Phil3:6) If you can faultlessly obey any law you can indeed be justified by obeying it. So, Paul must be writing what he is because of the moral law!
What is written in law can be retained IF(IF) you have no righteousness of obeying it. It is then forgiveable and does not bring condemnation

 

[Grailhunter]

Two things:
Galatians 2:16&Gal3:10 are primarily written because of the law twice engraved in stone. Apart from the moral law the law could faultlessly be obeyed, even by the worst of sinners(Phil3:6) If you can faultlessly obey any law you can indeed be justified by obeying it. So, Paul must be writing what he is because of the moral law!
What is written in law can be retained IF(IF) you have no righteousness of obeying it. It is then forgiveable and does not bring condemnation

Like I said no Old Testament Law pertains to Christians.
Some of the morals do come forward but not as laws.
Observance of the Laws cannot save you.

 

[Grailhunter]

Two things:
Galatians 2:16&Gal3:10 are primarily written because of the law twice engraved in stone. Apart from the moral law the law could faultlessly be obeyed, even by the worst of sinners(Phil3:6) If you can faultlessly obey any law you can indeed be justified by obeying it. So, Paul must be writing what he is because of the moral law!
What is written in law can be retained IF(IF) you have no righteousness of obeying it. It is then forgiveable and does not bring condemnation

But the ten summaries of the law in chapter 20 were not written on tablets. The Ten Commandments in chapter 34 were written on both sets of tablets.

 

[Grailhunter]

The Lord said to Moses, “Chisel out two stone tablets like the first ones, and I WILL WRITE ON THEM THE WORDS THAT WERE ON THE FIRST TABLETS, which you broke. Ex34:1

But the ten summaries of the law in chapter 20 were not written on tablets. The Ten Commandments in chapter 34 were written on both sets of tablets.

 

[saved by grace 101]

But the ten summaries of the law in chapter 20 were not written on tablets. The Ten Commandments in chapter 34 were written on both sets of tablets.

Well what was written on the second tablets were written on the first as Ex34:1 states

 

[saved by grace 101]

Like I said no Old Testament Law pertains to Christians.
Some of the morals do come forward but not as laws.
Observance of the Laws cannot save you.

Law as we all naturally understand law to mean has been abolished, for that law comes in two parts, what is written in the law and the penalty for transgression. Jesus died to pay the penalty for transgression. All that is left then is what is holy, just and good(Rom7:12) Jesus did not die to abolish what is holy, just and good, he died to end mans condemnation under it

 

[Gottservant]

In response to the OP:

You can't earn, what is free - but you can't forget, what takes godly work (selah)

 

[faithhopecharity]

Reader,

So many Christians are trying to earn and keep what God has already given to them for free, and forever.

Listen, if you are born again, then you belong to God, forever, having been purchased by the Blood of Jesus.

You are "bought with a price" and that price is Jesus's Shed Blood.

See, God didnt save you with the Blood of Jesus, so that you can try to prove you can earn it, later.

Reader, we, me, you, us, ......we were in our sins, an enemy of God on the day that we realized Jesus and Trusted in Christ.
This means that "while we were yet sinners" God has saved us, forgiven us, and made us His own, by the precious Blood of Jesus.

Listen......"by ONE MAN's Obedience" we are made RIGHTEOUS".

Who is that "ONE" ???? ? That is not me......that is not you, that is JESUS on The Cross who Himself has made us worthy before God.. and this same Jesus, and This same Shed Blood that God accepted to accept me and you, is ETERNAL......is an : Eternal Sacrifice.

Look, read, believe..

"Jesus is the ONE TIME.........Eternal........Sacrifice for sin".

Jesus has our sin, and we have God's righteousness, because God gave it to us as "the gift of Righteousness", the instant we trusted in Christ.

So, What are you supposed to do with this REVELATION?
You are supposed to BELIEVE IT, and stop trying to earn, what is freely given and only based on The Blood of Jesus.

Romans 5,,,,, "Being NOW JUSTIFIED by His BLOOD"........"We were reconciled to God by the death of Jesus".

ITS COMPLETED !

See that?
That is your Salvation, and you are to understand this, and BELIEVE IT........ and RELAX and ENJOY this Gift, this GRACE, this eternal Salvation that God has provided to us through Christ.

Reader, .. CHRISTianity, is not a JOB.........its a GIFT from God.

Enjoy it.
Rejoice in it.
Praise God for it.

we must participate and remain faithful to death!

mk 13:13
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

mt 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

mt 24:13
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

heb 3:6
But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

heb 3:14
For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

rev 2:10
Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

Those who endured to the end and die in the grace and union of Christ enter into eternal salvation.

thks

 

[faithhopecharity]

((perseverance))

Union with God & His saints in Christ by the grace of justification by baptism with the infused supernatural virtues of faith, hope, & charity, sanctifying grace and the Holy Spirit.

Jn 3:16 Perpetual faith
mt 3:8 2 cor 7:10 fruits of repentance
Jn 15:4 abide in Christ & bear fruit
Lk 3:9 bear fruit
Lk 1:75 acts 10:35 deeds of righteousness
phil 1:11 fruits of righteousness
mt 26:41 watch and pray
mk 24:48 watch and pray
Lk 21:36 Watch and pray, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
mt 7:7 ask and you shall receive
Lk 9:23 phil 1:29 daily, deny thyself, take up thy cross and follow me.
mt 7:14 narrow road that leads to life
mt 10:22 mk 13:13 mt 24:13 endure to the end in patient suffering
rev 2:10 he who overcomes I shall give the crown of life!

thks

 

[Behold]

we must participate and remain faithful to death!

@faithhopecharity .. you haven't remained "faithful to death"..

Remember?

Here let me show you YOURSELF, as God sees you...

= You have confessed your sins, and you'll do it again.......so, according to your LEGALISM Religion that is : "trying to be saved by self effort" "by being faithful to the END".... you are absolutely NOT saved according to your own words, as you have NOT been "faithful to death", which is why you have been confessing your sin....
Remember @faithhopecharity ?
And the next time you are UNFAITHful to God, you'll confess your sin again, and again and again.............>.
Comprehend yet ???????
So do you want to now post more self deceived religious nonsense about working your way to heaven, to literally prove you are not actually going there ?
Yes you will., (and not just YOU).... as you have no idea what Salvation is : or WHO HE IS.. or what The Cross of Christ has accomplished 2000 yrs ago, ALREADY and forever, for everyone who BELIEVES and is BORN AGAIN.

 

[Soyeong]

Reader,

So many Christians are trying to earn and keep what God has already given to them for free, and forever.

Listen, if you are born again, then you belong to God, forever, having been purchased by the Blood of Jesus.

You are "bought with a price" and that price is Jesus's Shed Blood.

See, God didnt save you with the Blood of Jesus, so that you can try to prove you can earn it, later.

Reader, we, me, you, us, ......we were in our sins, an enemy of God on the day that we realized Jesus and Trusted in Christ.
This means that "while we were yet sinners" God has saved us, forgiven us, and made us His own, by the precious Blood of Jesus.

Listen......"by ONE MAN's Obedience" we are made RIGHTEOUS".

Who is that "ONE" ???? ? That is not me......that is not you, that is JESUS on The Cross who Himself has made us worthy before God.. and this same Jesus, and This same Shed Blood that God accepted to accept me and you, is ETERNAL......is an : Eternal Sacrifice.

Look, read, believe..

"Jesus is the ONE TIME.........Eternal........Sacrifice for sin".

Jesus has our sin, and we have God's righteousness, because God gave it to us as "the gift of Righteousness", the instant we trusted in Christ.

So, What are you supposed to do with this REVELATION?
You are supposed to BELIEVE IT, and stop trying to earn, what is freely given and only based on The Blood of Jesus.

Romans 5,,,,, "Being NOW JUSTIFIED by His BLOOD"........"We were reconciled to God by the death of Jesus".

ITS COMPLETED !

See that?
That is your Salvation, and you are to understand this, and BELIEVE IT........ and RELAX and ENJOY this Gift, this GRACE, this eternal Salvation that God has provided to us through Christ.

Reader, .. CHRISTianity, is not a JOB.........its a GIFT from God.

Enjoy it.
Rejoice in it.
Praise God for it.

You seem to enjoy ranting against trying to earn our salvation, but can you quote a single post in this forum that states that we need earn our salvation?

 

[Behold]

You seem to enjoy ranting against trying to earn our salvation,

Salvation is JESUS......ON>.....THE....CROSS.

This is why Paul teaches that "We Preach CHRIST Crucified".........= not works, not commandments, not enduring, and not water baptism.

Notice carefully...... "JESUS on THE CROSS, is GOD's Salvation".

See that?

So, Can YOU DO That for yourself?

A.) Welcome to GOD's Salvation.....

= HIS NAME IS JESUS., and He alone COMPLETED on THE CROSS = our Eternal Salvation as HIS Shed Blood and Death,... 2000 yrs ago.

JESUS : Is Salvation, and you can not do that....for yourself.

Do you understand this Reader?
If you do, then notice the deceived people, some of whom are not really Christians, who keep trying to SELL YOU "works, and commandment keeping".... in place of Jesus = who alone is our only Salvation.

Learn to HEAR these HERETICS and then take note of who they are...., so that they cant confuse you and then mislead you.

 

[Soyeong]

Salvation is JESUS......ON>.....THE....CROSS.

This is why Paul teaches that "We Preach CHRIST Crucified".........= not works, not commandments, not enduring, and not water baptism.

Notice carefully...... "JESUS on THE CROSS, is GOD's Salvation".

See that?

So, Can YOU DO That for yourself?

A.) Welcome to GOD's Salvation.....

= HIS NAME IS JESUS., and He alone COMPLETED on THE CROSS = our Eternal Salvation as HIS Shed Blood and Death,... 2000 yrs ago.

JESUS : Is Salvation, and you can not do that....for yourself.

Do you understand this Reader?
If you do, then notice the deceived people, some of whom are not really Christians, who keep trying to SELL YOU "works, and commandment keeping".... in place of Jesus = who alone is our only Salvation.

Learn to HEAR these HERETICS and then take note of who they are...., so that they cant confuse you and then mislead you.

You notably neglected to quote a single post from this forum that states that we need to earn our salvation.

 

[Wrangler]

You can't Earn : What is FREE​

Yet, one can lose what was given to them for free.