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Grailhunter

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1.) Salvation is eternal, because Jesus is Salvation and Eternal Life

And regarding sin.......God does not charge a Born again Believer with Sin, because God has already allowed Jesus to die for them all...2000 yrs ago.
There go your sins., and so being made righteous by God base on our faith, we are found as a "new Creation in Christ".


Jesus is our sin bearer.........and Hes also our Eternal Life and Righteousness.

2.) Also, the born again are "not under the Law, but under Grace".......so there is no Law held against a born again Christian that can define a Born Again Christian as a sinner, ever again.

A.) God's Grace prevents the Law from being able to define us...as we (the born again) are now eternally defined as a "new Creation in Christ".

3.) When Paul tells us we are "made free" from Sin.......its more then just to be eternally forgiven... .....

God's grace is so amazing.

If you look at Romans 4:8 and 2 Corin 5:19, you'll find out something about God's Salvation that is vital to understand.

Oh the flat earther.....more weird stuff from the flat earther....
More cherry picking from the Gospel of Behold....Who knows the crazy stuff you believe.
Tell you what----Give me 2 dozen scriptures that say you can sin all you want and still go to Heaven and I will match them.
 

Grailhunter

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Of course I don't, why would you ask such a thing?

Sin with a S is enmity toward God, and so being separated from Him.

Sin with a s is the wrongdoings we all commit even after we are saved. But when we put ourselves in God's hands through our spiritual re-birth in Jesus the Holy Spirit works within us to change us. We are, as been said many times by many people, a work in progress.

Born again.....very good!
The new man....the new woman......made perfected in the theological sense.
Working out our salvation with fear and trembling. Philippians 2:12
But still we must be good and do good to the best of our ability.
the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. 1st John 3:8
If you do well, will not your countenance be lifted up? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it. Genesis 4:7
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1st John 1:9
But still don't expect to commit the same sin over and over and expect to be forgiven. Cannot play Yeshua for a fool. Repentance is regret and a commitment not to do that sin again.
For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES. Hebrews 10:26 & 27

Be good and do good
The Johnny Appleseed of Truth
My Gospel is the Word of God.....That is why I can easily produce so many scriptures to support what I believe.
Cherry picking scriptures is no way to understand God.
 

Pearl

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But still we must be good and do good to the best of our ability.
Absolutely, but we have the Holy Spirit to guide us and help us.
the one who practices sin is of the devil;
Depends what you mean by sin.
God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.
He has already done that so we are no longer slaves to sin but made righteous through the blood of Jesus.
Repentance is regret and a commitment not to do that sin again.
Repentance is turning from your old life in order to be made a new creation.
 

Grailhunter

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Absolutely, but we have the Holy Spirit to guide us and help us.

Depends what you mean by sin.

He has already done that so we are no longer slaves to sin but made righteous through the blood of Jesus.

Repentance is turning from your old life in order to be made a new creation.

the one who practices sin is of the devil;
You said----Depends what you mean by sin.

What the scriptures mean as sin.

Repentance is regret and a commitment not to do that sin again.
You said----Repentance is turning from your old life in order to be made a new creation.

Turning is a popular concept----spin all we want but regret and a commitment to not do that same sin again is most important.
If we keep doing the same sin over and over again do not expect forgiveness.
 

Pearl

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You said----Depends what you mean by sin.

What the scriptures mean as sin.


You said----Repentance is turning from your old life in order to be made a new creation.

Turning is a popular concept----spin all we want but regret and a commitment to not do that same sin again is most important.
If we keep doing the same sin over and over again do not expect forgiveness.
Thanks for your reply and the chats.
 
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saved by grace 101

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But still don't expect to commit the same sin over and over and expect to be forgiven. Cannot play Yeshua for a fool. Repentance is regret and a commitment not to do that sin again.
Are you including the law pertaining to the inner man in that, the law no one but you and God need know you break?
 

quietthinker

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You can't Earn : What is FREE​

Who said you can't?....Ohhhh, it was Behold, but I would say, we have the capacity and the ability to juggle anything in our heads.....even pigs flying.

If it was believed that one has been given a gift there would be no need for the set up of hoops of any kind.
If it was believed that one has been given a gift then the anxiety and debating associated with disbelief would not be there.
If it was believed that one has been given a gift a child like confidence and peace would be evident in ones talk
If it was believed that one has been given a gift, control, unsolicited advice, lack of identification with the 'enemy' ie, the 'struggles' of others, would be at a distance.
 

Rudometkin

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I can only hope that you do not believe salvation and grace is a license to sin.
It's not a license, because it's not legal permission. That's a common objection, and not a very thoughtful one. The objection still has *LEGALITY* written all over it. Whereas we say the believer is no longer under the law, and so therefore free from it, but under grace, your objection still approaches the issue through a legal perspective. You presuppose legalism, apply legalism to it, and conclude it's wrong because it is incompatible with legalism.

The believer is not under the law, and where there is no law, sin is not counted. Romans 6:14 & Romans 5:13

Where sin abounds, grace abounds more. Romans 5:20


The ability to sin and still be saved: God calls it GRACE. Grailhunter calls it LICENSE TO SIN. God teaches Grace apart from law, Grailhunter interprets Grace by the law.

Jesus died by the law. To live by the law is to reject Jesus' lifework. Jesus is the only way. Give up the law and accept that He alone fulfilled it for those who believe on Him, and you will be saved. Not a partial salvation from sin that can still be lost by sin, which is no salvation at all, but complete and utter Salvation from sin in its entirety. This is the reflection of Christ.
 

Grailhunter

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The ability to sin and still be saved: God calls it GRACE. Grailhunter calls it LICENSE TO SIN.

That is not what I believe Grace is but either way you call it Grace and I call it a license to sin. It is the same thing. Either way you believe you can go on sinning all you want and still go to Heaven.....Horrible people in Heaven.
How many scriptures do you want to prove your belief is false? I am sure you know them but you want to impose your beliefs over and above scriptures.
 

Grailhunter

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Jesus died by the law. To live by the law is to reject Jesus' lifework. Jesus is the only way. Give up the law and accept that He alone fulfilled it for those who believe on Him, and you will be saved. Not a partial salvation from sin that can still be lost by sin, which is no salvation at all, but complete and utter Salvation from sin in its entirety. This is the reflection of Christ.

The teachings of Yeshua and the Apostles are not Laws. There was no forgiveness for the Law. We can get forgiveness for our sins as long as we keep them to a minimum. Yeshua and the Apostles taught a religion of morality and Christians should do their best to live a moral life and help others.
Be good and do good.
The Johnny Appleseed of Truth.
 

Rudometkin

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That is not what I believe Grace is...
Of course not. Because you interpret it by the law. What you are understanding is not grace at all.

but either way you call it Grace and I call it a license to sin. It is the same thing. Either way you believe you can go on sinning all you want and still go to Heaven.....Horrible people in Heaven.
How many scriptures do you want to prove your belief is false? I am sure you know them but you want to impose your beliefs over and above scriptures.
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 1 John 2:1

God isn't looking at you for righteousness. He's looking at Christ.
 
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Rudometkin

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The teachings of Yeshua and the Apostles are not Laws. There was no forgiveness for the Law. We can get forgiveness for our sins as long as we keep them to a minimum. Yeshua and the Apostles taught a religion of morality and Christians should do their best to live a moral life and help others.
Be good and do good.
The Johnny Appleseed of Truth.
There was fulfillment of the law. Christ fulfilled it.

Nowhere in Scripture does it teach, 'Keep your sins to a minimum, and the the Lord will forgive your sins'. It teaches that Christ fulfilled the law for us, and that "the law is the schoolmaster that leads us to Christ".

It teaches that the best we can do is considered filthy rags to God. Your sins that you think you can keep to a minimum are filthy rags to God. You say to be good. Jesus says only God is good.

I understand you think that takes away morality, but morality is what GOD defines it as.
 
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Grailhunter

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Of course not. Because you interpret it by the law. What you are understanding is not grace at all.


My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 1 John 2:1

God isn't looking at you for righteousness. He's looking at Christ.

How many scriptures do you want to disprove Once Saved Always Saved?
How many scriptures can you find that indicates we can sin all we want and still go to Heaven?
How about scriptures that speak of the scum that will be in Heaven?
And if scum go to Heaven who goes to Hell? Only those that do not believe? Is non-belief the only thing that get us judged to Hell?
 
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Grailhunter

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There was fulfillment of the law. Christ fulfilled it.

Nowhere in Scripture does it teach, 'Keep your sins to a minimum, and the the Lord will forgive your sins'. It teaches that Christ fulfilled the law for us, and that "the law is the schoolmaster that leads us to Christ".

It teaches that the best we can do is considered filthy rags to God. Your sins that you think you can keep to a minimum are filthy rags to God. You say to be good. Jesus says only God is good.

I understand you think that takes away morality, but morality is what GOD defines it as.

LOL Do you think sin is Christian morality...LOL
Paul called Christians saints.
Find the phrase filthy rags in the New Testament.
Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. Matthew 5:48
Those that believe OSAS practice cherry picking of scriptures and do not understand the scriptures as a whole.
So lets see it! Give me all those scriptures that say we can sin all we want and still go to Heaven.
In the mean time I do not have to cherry pick I will give you a few that prove your belief false......
2nd Corinthians :5:10: For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad..

Matthew 18:9 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire.

So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; Philippians 2:12

1st Corinthians 6:9-10 “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor those habitually drunk, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God”

Galatians 5:19-21 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior, idolatry, witchcraft, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Ephesians 5:3-5 But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people. Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a person is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

John 5:28-29 Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’ Matthew 7:21-23

Romans 2:5-6 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who will render to each person according to his deeds:

Hebrews 6:4-8
4: For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5: And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6: If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. 7: For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: 8: But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

Hebrews 10:26-31
26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

2nd Peter 2:4-22
4: For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment 5: And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; 6: And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly; 7: And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: 8: (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds 9: The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

10: But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. 11: Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord. 12: But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; 13: And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you; 14: Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children: 15: Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; 16: But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet. 17: These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever. 18: For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. 19: While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. 20: For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21: For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22: But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Want some more?
Let see yours.....
 
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Wrangler

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You can't Earn : What is FREE
This is just another one of your OSAS threads, which I plan to say only this. In today's devotional reading in Matthew, the pig herders begged Jesus to leave BECAUSE there is a cost to having Jesus in your life. Jesus talked about counting the costs. So, you shouldn't talk about it being free. In addition, yesterday's verse of the day was John 15:4 (VOICE)
Abide in Me, and I will abide in you. A branch cannot bear fruit if it is disconnected from the vine, and neither will you if you are not connected to Me.

Always, you want to ignore the conditional aspects to the covenant. "If" is one way to know we have a burden with a price to pay if we fail to meet the burden. You preach a false Gospel, a half Gospel. Yes, there is Grace but there is also Justice.

I know. I know! I KNOW! You are talking about something else. You're always talking about something else, never acknowledging the cost side, the burden for us to act side.
 
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Wrangler

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Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. Matthew 5:48
Those that believe OSAS practice cherry picking of scriptures and do not understand the scriptures as a whole.

Very well said! They are still on milk, not mature enough for solid food. Yes, there is refuge in the Lord. But there is also work to be done. The purpose of being God's children is not to get to the goal line to rest forever more. To whom much is given, much is expected.

The way I put is this; the gates of heaven will not be breached by lip service. If you don't follow God's will, Jesus will say he never knew you. While @Behold preaches total security in salvation, our Lord Jesus Christ preached for us to fear God who can kill the body and the soul.

Jesus was not saying this to unbelievers! Jesus was saying this to believers! Why would God reserve the right to destroy souls of believers if not to exercise this judgement? The OSAS doctrine is foolish, illogical and anti-Biblical.