When Jesus "took away" your sin, did He leave behind the source, the sin nature?

[marks]

Do you really believe the OP was meant for you?

Where do you get this stuff??

Meant for me? No, I think you meant it for yourself.

 

[marks]

I don't think we should limit God to our experience. Is anything impossible with God? It is not arrogant to think we can be like Jesus...since we are called to become conformed to Him and like Him.

He is fully able to sanctify our lives, absolutely yes!! And He will, all of us. But there is something in the struggle of overcoming sin by learning faith, and maturing, that yields a much deeper work in our lives, and in conforming us to be like Jesus.

Yes, God can flick a switch in us, and cause us to walk in the Spirit 24/7, leaving aside fulfilling the lust of the flesh. I don't believe that one in whom God has done this boasts about it, nor do they treat others with disdain, contempt, condescending, as we've seen here.

Galatians 5:22-23 KJV
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

NLT:

But the Holy Spirit produces this kind of fruit in our lives: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against these things!

If you are walking in the Spirit, this describes you, no exceptions, as the Holy Spirit conforms your character to be as Jesus.

The Bible describes a lifelong process of overcoming in this world. It tells us that the flesh lusts against the spirit, and the spirit against the flesh.

Yes, God can just change us to walk in the Spirit permanently, however, He shows us a different way, a maturing process, as He works within us. I've come to see this producing deeper work in us.

You can use a calculator to get the right sum, but when you use pencil and paper you understand it.

This notion that a true child of God will never do anything sinful is refuted fully and completely in Hebrews 12:

Hebrews 12:5-11 KJV
5) And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6) For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7) If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8) But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9) Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10) For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11) Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

Chastening is correction, which is only given to God's children, not to others. And we have His promise that His correction will be effective in us, producing in us the peaceable fruits of righteousness.

God corrects His children. Not capriciously, but with reason. If we disobey Him, He has promised to correct us because we are in fact His children. He will train us in righteousness, because we are His children.

He writes that we may not sin, but if we do, we have an advocate with the Father, even Jesus Christ the Righteous. Praise to Him!

I think what our lives really look like is the light growing stronger and stronger until that day dawns.

Much love!

 

[quietthinker]

So, tell me.

Which of the two types of sins do you commit? Willful lawless sins unto death against the Ten Commandments that no born again of the Spirit Christian can even commit according to 1 John 3:9, or just immature fruit of the Spirit you commit unintentionally until the Spirit checks your spirit that Jesus cleanses as we commit them according to 1 John 1:7 and He is still conforming us to be like Him?


Do you see the difference? Do you lie to get someone else in trouble or commit fornication? Those are the two most common sins unto death that a born again Christian who does not keep himself pure can commit when done intentionally. But Jesus will say to them, "I never knew you."


Righteousness is sinlessness (of sins unto death). Holiness is more than righteousness; it is perfection of BOTH types of sin when Jesus has completed maturing you of all the fruit of the Spirit.

My sins consist of selfishness in my thoughts. I battle with the self orientated me and the me who sees others as having great value.
It's gimme, gimme, gimme against loving the other AS I have been loved, ie giving my LIFE for others.

The superficial understanding of sin being the things we do, is just that, superficial. The birthplace of sin is the heart. All sin flows from self seeking (my comfort, my money, my wealth, my interest, my status, my attractiveness, my stuff....etc etc) Yes, it's what's going on in the head.

This body of death will finally be disposed of at the resurrection. Till then, its a battle between the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of this World.

1 Corinthians 15: 51-57
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[ScottA]

Glad I have a thick skin, plus mature fruit. So, do you believe Jesus took away our inner sin nature or not? Answer, "yes" or "not."

Our body is dying because of ADAM'S SIN not OUR still sinning.

Well, your way of asking is part of the confusion. This issue speaks of two different bodies. So saying "our inner sin nature" is a misrepresentation of what is actually true.

Our sin nature before salvation resides within and without--through and through. It is only when we are born again of the spirit of God that we have one body "without" and another body within--that is, one natural body without, and another spiritual body within.

As for a difference in who's sin, Adam's or our own, our sin nature is inherited from Adam--which is to say--inherited from Adam and Eve who were one flesh, whose children are more importantly the inherited line of Satan, our father--the father of all born of the flesh. Even Christ as the Son of Man as one born of the flesh, was born of the inherited line of Satan (female and flesh by nature), but unlike all others, was fathered by the Holy Spirit. This is the mystery and parable of gender, as Eve who sinned first was taken out of the man--an image of mankind being taken out of God.

 

[ProDeo]

Hebrews 10:2 from OP "For the worshipers, once purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins."

Hebr 10:2 Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, since the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have any consciousness of sins? [ESV]

Hebr 10:2 since, would they not have ceased to be offered, because of those serving having no more conscience of sins, having once been purified? [YLT]

Do you realize these translations end with a question mark ?

 

[ProDeo]

1 John 3:9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God." From OP

The indwelling Holy Spirit every born again receives indeed can not sin, you (and everybody else) can, and will.

 

[PS95]

Hebr 10:2 Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, since the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have any consciousness of sins? [ESV]

Hebr 10:2 since, would they not have ceased to be offered, because of those serving having no more conscience of sins, having once been purified? [YLT]

Do you realize these translations end with a question mark ?

Hey Pro Deo-
A question mark or not isn't the issue. Punctuation is added by translators. Most don't use it there. This word, suneidésis: means Conscience.

The verse just simply does not mean what the OP is attempting to suggest. It has absolutely nothing to do with being incapable of sinning.. or being born again or anything other than-- what it says-- (context too)
---Hebrews 10:2-4
"For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins.
3But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins."
------
The Jews still carried their guilt or "awareness" their "conscience" still bothered them of sins they had committed even after those sacrifices, which is why they repeated the sacrifices. They were not sufficient.

--As opposed to us who are forgiven our sins by the one time sacrifice of Jesus.--
He is far more than sufficient to free us from the guilt of our sins.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

are you referring to 2 Peter 1:5-10? Yes as you can see Peter is teaching how NOT to stumble. That is the opposite of saying we can never sin if we are born again. We should be growing more to be like the Lord- but we are not automatically sinless once born again!

I'll answer this first part first. Read Revelation 22:11. There are two levels of purity and Jesus does them both in us while born again. The first is righteousness. That is sinlessness, but of what type of sin? The worst! Sins unto death. Not physical death like suicide, but the Old Testament punishment was death by stoning. When God writes His moral laws on your heart and they become part of you and you keep them naturally with no effort, that is instantaneous when we are first born again. You love what God loves, and you absolutely hate what God hates. I know that from my personal experience when trying as hard as I might, over and over, I could not give up my married lover. I finally surrendered and told God I was too weak. And that He was strong, so I was going to leave it up to Him to somehow keep me away from him. One week later my lover broke up with me. It finally dawned on him that he was not being fair to me and knew he couldn't be there when I needed him. Jesus can even get through to an atheist. And it was love that kept him away from me. Two weeks later after being so broken hearted I could hardly breathe, came the day after 30 years of going to church unsaved, I was born again and filled with more joy than I had ever known. That experience is a long story in itself, and I won't trouble you with it right now. The point is I was free from the sin unto death of adultery. That type of sin is the topic and context of 1 John 3, the breaking of a commandment of God. It is about righeousness. And if you read it carefully, sinlessness.

But there is another type of sin, a sin not unto death that we will commit when immature in the Spirit. Jesus as the Finisher of our faith does that too in us as long as we stay abiding in Him and walking in the Spirit, 1 John 1:7. Yes, it is Peter that speaks of that second perfecting, but instead of instantaneous it is a long process. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins. Those who do keep themselves abiding in Christ will notice strengths of character that you were once weak in now being strong. And thick skinned. LOL I thank God for these forums I've been on for a couple decades. It is here if you let it, that Jesus can finish what He started, Phil 1:6. But there are some on the forums who haven't changed an iota I've seen on here for years, and verse 9 is their story.

Once Jesus has matured all the fruit of the Spirit in you, that is when you have become holy and, yes, NEVER STUMBLE. Only Jesus knows when He is finished and you are perfect. "Be holy as I am holy."

I'll see what else you have to say later.

 

[Lizbeth]

Hi lizbeth- do you believe that we are perfected in love as john wrote? I do. Anyway I agree with your verses and this is definitely been my experience. We are growing daily- being refined by God as we abide in Him.
To say, I will never even sin again though for the rest of my days is not something that I see in scripture. Do you?
What do you think about a momentary thought?

At any rate- this is not exactly what the Op is about- she is saying she has never sinned since being born again. - she can't! she has no sin nature while she accuses us of slapping Jesus who say we do still have the "ability" to sin due to flesh vs spirit battle in us.
you don't agree with that, do you?

​

I would say one is perfected in love insofar as they are walking and living in love....which is another way of saying living and walking in the Spirit. And that is what John was speaking of. I don't believe anyone will sin or have an evil thought of their own when they are walking and dwelling in the Spirit. Most of us are just not there yet, so we shouldn't limit God to our own personal experience.

I think the OP is saying she has never sinned wilfully, but only inadvertently. Unless I'm misunderstanding....not sure I'm processing everything that is being said properly. It really is like a slap in the face in my opinion to limit what God can do in the life of a believer, and what Jesus accomplished on the cross, although not deliberate.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Hebr 10:2 Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, since the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have any consciousness of sins? [ESV]

Hebr 10:2 since, would they not have ceased to be offered, because of those serving having no more conscience of sins, having once been purified? [YLT]

Do you realize these translations end with a question mark ?

What I found is that is verifies verses 26-31. And in Romans 6 Paul asks why sin when you don't have to? In other words, why do something you no longer want to do as those under the Old Covenant who still had their inherited sin nature, BECAUSE when born again there is no more consciousness of evil in you to do evil.

I've known this for almost 50 years that the sin I was a slave to, overnight the whole desire was gone. But there are others on the forums who constantly fight this knowledge because then they wouldn't have their excuse to sin. I understand that weakness, because that was me for the first 30 years of my life UNTIL I was finally born again of the Spirit and all desire to sin lawlessly was gone.

 

[Lizbeth]

He is fully able to sanctify our lives, absolutely yes!! And He will, all of us. But there is something in the struggle of overcoming sin by learning faith, and maturing, that yields a much deeper work in our lives, and in conforming us to be like Jesus.

Amen. The battle and struggle is like the struggle and squeezing of a baby through the narrow way to be born....it's purpose is to kill the life/power of the old man over us....like the baby is delivered from dependence on its mother (old life source). I think most of us are aiming too low and limiting what we can attain by God's grace in this life. Running the race so as to win it, I believe speaks to winning something we can experience in this life, not wait until after we physically die. We should be aiming for nothing less than the perfection the bible speaks of all over the place. (I was amazed when I did a word search of perfect, perfection etc, how often it appears in the bible.....I had hardly used to notice it before.) My understanding is that it is a second work of grace, like the first, but more thorough and complete than the first. Until then I believe we are really only gestating so to speak, until Christ is fully formed and we give birth to Him as it were...meaning He is fully manifesting in our life, His nature and spirit, no longer our own, but the full stature of Christ.

Yes, God can flick a switch in us, and cause us to walk in the Spirit 24/7, leaving aside fulfilling the lust of the flesh.

I think the flesh arguably even leaves off lusting when one is walking in the Spirit....the flesh and flesh nature is rendered inert.

I don't believe that one in whom God has done this boasts about it, nor do they treat others with disdain, contempt, condescending, as we've seen here.

I agree.....one would only exhibit and exude the nature/spirit of Christ. It can be hard to know what someone has actually specifically experienced just going by their description of what happened....maybe they don't fully understand it themselves. And I think being holy wouldn't necessarily mean someone would have all understanding in any case. Also wonder if that state once attained can be sort of slipped into and out of at times if one isn't being careful....? I just don't know.

 

[Lizbeth]

The indwelling Holy Spirit every born again receives indeed can not sin, you (and everybody else) can, and will.

Thinking in terms that it is our new man who cannot sin......but our old man will continue to sin or miss the mark at times in spite of our best efforts, to some degree until he is completely dealt with.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

The indwelling Holy Spirit every born again receives indeed can not sin, you (and everybody else) can, and will.

Are you talking about the misinterpreted imputed righteousness? That the Spirit that dwells within you cannot stop you from sinning, that righteousness is just a covering and not something that Jesus has "taken away"? That is a doctrine of demons trying to weaken you. And in this day and age of the falling away, you are in the majority with that defeatist doctrine.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Thinking in terms that it is our new man who cannot sin......but our old man will continue to sin or miss the mark at times in spite of our best efforts, to some degree until he is completely dealt with.

He has been completely dealt with, Liz. Are you completely disregarding our Lord's death and 1 John 3:8-9

 

[Lizbeth]

I think what our lives really look like is the light growing stronger and stronger until that day dawns.

Just want to add..........I am not sure we have to wait to physically die for the day to dawn.......just the death of our old man. And as scripture says, our old man really has been crucified with Christ already.......Jesus has accomplished it for us, but we need to "apprehend" and get hold of that reality so that it can fully manifest in our life. As I think of it.

 

[Lizbeth]

He has been completely dealt with, Liz. Are you completely disregarding our Lord's death and 1 John 3:8-9

Yes, I agree he has been completely dealt with as I was just mentioning to Mark..........but we need to walk in that reality. Most of us aren't there yet. But I believe it is possible, and we should be aiming for nothing less.

 

[Lambano]

That the Spirit that dwells within you cannot stop you from sinning?

If it really worked that way, you'd think we'd be better persons than we are.

 

[Lizbeth]

What I found is that is verifies verses 26-31. And in Romans 6 Paul asks why sin when you don't have to? In other words, why do something you no longer want to do as those under the Old Covenant who still had their inherited sin nature, BECAUSE when born again there is no more consciousness of evil in you to do evil.

I've known this for almost 50 years that the sin I was a slave to, overnight the whole desire was gone. But there are others on the forums who constantly fight this knowledge because then they wouldn't have their excuse to sin. I understand that weakness, because that was me for the first 30 years of my life UNTIL I was finally born again of the Spirit and all desire to sin lawlessly was gone.

What I seem to observe is that after coming to Christ, we follow the same pattern as Israel.......learning and being tutored by the law until Christ is fully formed in us. The law teaches us about our lack, how we fall short in our own selves. Jesus said to the rich young ruler....."If ye would be perfect......."

Praise the Lord for His work of grace in your life. Is it correct to say that you had come to faith in Christ all those years before, and what you are speaking of 30 years later was a second work of grace....?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

If it really worked that way, you'd think we'd be better persons than we are.

We are living in the age of the falling away, right before the Antichrist comes on the scene. 2 Thes. 2:3-12.

It is amazing to me that on a Christian website there are not more who love Jesus. Because those who actually love Jesus keep His commandments. And He has made it easy by taking away our sin nature where lawlessness dwelt.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Where do you get this stuff??

Meant for me? No, I think you meant it for yourself.

I know and live the truth. And that is that Jesus does take away the old man/sin nature and resurrects a clean nature that may partake of the divine nature of God. When are you going to change too?