When Jesus "took away" your sin, did He leave behind the source, the sin nature?

[Behold]

Holiness does have to do with how we act

Consider that "holiness" is not how you ""act.""
As in that case you are acting., and any religious fool can play that game, and many do it, on my Threads, as well as on others.
Many do it every Sunday, as they run to the front pew to get that SEAT.

Listen carefully.........God gives to the Believer His own Righteousness, or you are not righteous ....which means that you are not holy, no matter how you "act".
God is not interested in our "acting"...>>He is only interested in our FAITH......as "without faith, it is IMPOSSIBLE to please God":.

So, that means that all your effort to be "more like Christ" is just your self effort ACT, and He's not interested in that behavior, at all.

 

[PS95]

Yes, I already thought of that, and have written to her twice with no response.

When I was a little girl, between 5-7 my mother said to me, "why do you go over to your friends houses everyday? They don't like you. They never call you do they? Even though Proverbs 26:2 says a curse without cause shall not alight (stick), when things like this shunning happens, I know what my mother said to me has been a life-long curse. I just don't know what I did to deserve this.

I'll go hunt down your post and see if I can give you a better answer.

I can relate to some of that. I've experienced ill treatment w/o cause many times and also as a child. I'm used to it now. It may be just a part of it? It makes us lean on the Lord even more..
Maybe go back to church even if you don't agree with everything - for fellowship.
We are never too old to meet a new sister..

 

[Behold]

It is not merely a one time prayer and that's that- the end.

Salvation is Jesus on The Cross, and you can't do that for yourself.
So, we see that Salvaiton is a ONE TIME Situation, that has nothing to do with your behavior.
Salvation begins and ends with Jesus on The Cross who Himself is our Etermal Salvaiton and our Eternal Life.
If we have Him in us, then we have Eternal Salvation, and this is not something that you do.....its something that God GIVES as "the Gift of Salvation"......to "all who will believe"........

Thanks for your reply but I don't want to argue this with you again. We've done it over and over, and I give you verses and you give me the same lecture each time as if I think if I sin that I'm not saved.

I have no idea if you "think" you are not saved if you sin, or if you "think" you are, if you sin.........as ive never addressed how you think about your sinning, in that context.
What i tell you, is what i tell all religious people like you......and that is, that your faith is wrong, and once you get it right, then you'll not be talking about sin, and sinning, and losing salvaiton, or OSAS, or commandment keeping or Moses law.........And that is becasuse its only the people who do not understand what Jesus has finished for them on the Cross who have these issues, that you have, which is why you are concerned with sin and sinning.

I don't just take in stride or ignore it.
Try to get that.

Ive never told you or anyone anywhere to ignore your carnal behavior (works of the flesh).
What i teach is how to stop that from controlling your HEAD which is why you still have that issue, and you're not supposed to have it.
You are not supposed to exist very long withing "new Christianity" as a Heb 6:1 .
See, its a wrong faith issue....that is empowering it in your life.......its not a sin issue, its a wrong faith issue.

 

[PS95]

Consider that "holiness" is not how you ""act.""
As in that case you are acting., and any religious fool can play that game, and many do it, on my Threads.

Listen carefully.........God gives to the Believer His own Righteousness, or you are not righteous....which means that you are not holy, no matter how you "act".
God is not interested in our "acting"...>>He is only interested in our FAITH......as "without faith, it is IMPOSSIBLE to please God":.

So, that means that all your effort to be "more like Christ" is just your self effort, and He's not interested in that behavior, at all.

Behold-you go in circles..

1, Did God change you?

2. Do you now live and act differently than you used to?

3. Is God still working in you?

4. Why?

5 Should we resist Him or obey Him?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

You bring up 1 John 1:7 and I recall about a year ago you telling me that only applied to when a person is first saved. Are you saying something else now?
We have to remember that 1 John 1:7 is immediately followed by other verses.
John is speaking to believers. sins can be forgiven-
1 John 1:8 -2:1-2
8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

1My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
-----------

Yes, I've changed my view, even though I don't remember saying that to you.

But, I may have meant that the younger we are in the Lord, the more immature fruit we have. After almost 50 years now, I should be pretty mature in more fruit than at first. Also, it is the Lord that brings the immaturity of a particular fruit to our conscience and consciousness, bringing us into the mix to ask for help. Immature fruit that Jesus has not gotten to yet, we are not conscious of and they are automatically forgiven. That is what 1 John 1:7 means.

As for 1 John 1:8 means, along with verses 6 and 10, those are verses of darkness, and there is no darkness in God, thus they are not referring to Christians. Verses 5-10 is a series of the Semitic writing style called synonymous parallelism, and in this case are 'contrasts.' Chapter 3 are also passages of contrasts one after the other. That is why in chapter 1, verses 8 and 10 are pretty much saying something very similar to each other, and verse 9 is after verse 8, but BEFORE verse 10 when verse 9 should also follow verse 10 as it is claiming they have never sinned in their entire life. Read verses 5, 7 and 9 and you will see they are the verses that represent light.

As for the second sentence in 1 John 2, note that John also wrote John 3:16, a famous memory verse, and "anyone" is mankind in the whole world just like "whosoever" that consists of how we became a Christian, but also the rest of the world who hasn't, yet Jesus died for them as well.

While it is true for me also. that my desire to sin what you call big sins) is gone- I can not marginalize the words of Christ to say it isn't such a "big sin" to call my brother a fool or an idiot etc. --------I see it on here often. Look what Jesus said about it. How can you say it's not a big sin?
But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire.
Matt 5:22
We all stumble in many things, agree? We just need to be cautious about "big sins" and sin that leads to death.
The sin that leads to death is a hard one but it could be either unbelief,- apostasy (willful sinning?)-, a sin against the Spirit whichwe do know leads to sudden death in Acts.

The sin not leading to death is NOT the 10.
All unrighteousness is sin. Yet it isn't the sin that leads to death.
1 John 5
16If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. 17All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.

When we walk in the Spirit - I agree with you that we don't sin then.
However, if we were young I imagine it would be a lot more difficult being tempted by those young all around us constantly- and having inflamed desires, lacking maturity, parties, being alone on Saturday night etc..
This is why Paul tells them to marry- to avoid fornication.--- a big sin. Fornication isn't one of the 10 either. So it's a mistake to say if you are born again you can not sin a big sin. That's all my point is.

I'm not debating whether or not you or anyone else has reached perfection. That isn't mine to judge. I'm just asking you to reevaluate a few things you've stated.

Verse 17 that you underlined a part of is still 'missing the mark,' but the part you didn't underline should make us wonder what sins do not lead to death. It is showing us that not all sin is the same as the Reformists lumped all sin together erroneously and said, "sin is sin" period. But what they are also doing at the same time is saying that a sin such as murder can be forgiven just as simply as going a mile over the speed limit, and that Jesus freed us from the punishment of sin, but not sin itself.

 

[Behold]

26For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth,

Let me open this verse as this one is one of the Devil's favorites to use against a believer who is having "sin issues" and condemnation.
He'll use Heb 6&10 to beat you into FEAR of losing your salvation, once He has convinced you that these verses are talking to born again Christians.........yet they are not.

Look at your posted verse...

'""""If we SIN.........willfully, after we have received the KNOWLEDGE of the Truth."""""

So, to receive the KNOWLEDGE of the Truth.. is to KNOW that something is TRUE....but this verse is not a discussion on Physics, reader.
This is the spiritural realm, and the apostle is explaing that "now that you KNOW that its true" That Jesus is your MESSIAH..........as you have received the KNOWLEDGE>....= You've (tasted)...= been enlighted by the HOLY SPIRIT>....to KNOW that JESUS IS YOUR MESSIAH....... So, now that you KNOW IT> because its been revealed to you (Tasted ) by the Holy Spirit........if you still willfully refuse to believe it....."as your Father's did" ( who were shouting, Crucify Him, Crucify Him).. then there remains no more sacrifice for you, because you have rejected the Sacrifice, after KNOWING it was true.
And that Reader, is how you Reject Christ, and it become the "unpardonable sin"., and these unsaved HEBREWS did just that... and they did it WILLFULLY.....>KNOWING the Truth.

So, this is not directed at a Christian, as the Christian has already gone from Knowledge of the Truth....= to FAITH IN CHRIST......whereas these Hebrews REFUSED to accept the truth that they knew was true....= "willfully".

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I can relate to some of that. I've experienced ill treatment w/o cause many times and also as a child. I'm used to it now. It may be just a part of it? It makes us lean on the Lord even more..
Maybe go back to church even if you don't agree with everything - for fellowship.
We are never too old to meet a new sister..

I may not be a denominationalist, but I still go to church; in fact, a few. But I also make appointments with pastors to discuss their doctrines and have made friends with quite a few pastors and missionaries. I was also going to church on both days of the weekend, until the SDA church I went to on Saturdays, asked me not to come anymore, as the miracles I would report on were upsetting some of the members when God created an earing I had lost a few years ago. What happened was one day I was praising God for His creative ability when I was just in awe one day as I thought about the universe. The next day I opened a drawer that held my remotes for TV and immediately saw an earring that matched one that I had lost a few years back. I looked in the box of my "one earring" of other earrings that I had lost the mate, and found the matching earring. That was on a Friday, so I told the Sabbath-School adult class about it, and everybody called the pastor and told them to kick me out of the church as I had a demon. They don't believe in wearing jewelry you know...

I still go to the SDA church twice a month for their food bank after church on Sundays, and see some of my other friends that are not in that particular Sabbath School class. I really love these women.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Let me open this verse as this one is one of the Devil's favorites to use against a believer who is having "sin issues" and condemnation.
He'll use Heb 6&10 to beat you into FEAR of losing your salvation, once He has convinced you that these verses are talking to born again Christians.........yet they are not.

Look at your posted verse...

'""""If we SIN.........willfully, after we have received the KNOWLEDGE of the Truth."""""

So, to receive the KNOWLEDGE of the Truth.. is to KNOW that something is TRUE....but this verse is not a discussion on Physics, reader.
This is the spiritural realm, and the apostle is explaing that "now that you KNOW that its true" That Jesus is your MESSIAH..........as you have received the KNOWLEDGE>....= You've (tasted)...= been enlighted by the HOLY SPIRIT>....to KNOW that JESUS IS YOUR MESSIAH....... So, now that you KNOW IT> because its been revealed to you (Tasted ) by the Holy Spirit........if you still willfully refuse to believe it....."as your Father's did" ( who were shouting, Crucify Him, Crucify Him).. then there remains no more sacrifice for you, because you have rejected the Sacrifice, after KNOWING it was true.
And that Reader, is how you Reject Christ, and it become the "unpardonable sin"., and these unsaved HEBREWS did just that... and they did it WILLFULLY.....>KNOWING the Truth.

So, this is not directed at a Christian, as the Christian has already gone from Knowledge of the Truth....= to FAITH IN CHRIST......whereas these Hebrews REFUSED to accept the truth that they knew was true....= "willfully".

I've heard these objections before, but these are definitely Christians that false teachers have gotten their claws into with the Reformationist lie that "sin is sin" and all sin is equal whether willful or unintentional.

26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

 

[Behold]

Behold-you go in circles..

1, Did God change you?

I went from sinner to Born again Christian.

A.) yes.


I now go from "glory to glory"........ according to God's Grace as i continue to utterly rely on it.

2. Do you now live and act differently than you used to?

Paul teaches that Ministers of the Devil, "act differently then they use to"....and the reason they do this, is to deceive you.

So, we can never ONLY look at behavior when we are accessing "is this person really a christian".

And of course logging into this forum for the first time, as a "christian", is meaningless.

What we have to do, is find out..

"when were you saved"
"how were you saved"
"who saved you, and from what"

So, once they begin to answer this, we can then begin to see what we are dealing with, regarding who is saved and who has no idea what that word means.

And if they get all that right, and yet are still confessing sin and trying to stay saved, then their issue is that their faith is wrong, and until this is corrected , then their discipleship is going to continue to fail, and so, they'll continually be sharing this failure with the forum.

3. Is God still working in you?

That is His reality.
He is always working in and for and through the Believer, but that does not mean they are going to be affected by it.
See, if your faith is wrong then you become this...>"apart from me you can do NOTHING">.....Jesus told you.
And that "nothing" is.....>"I want to be better, but im not, and i want to be good, and i can't, and so, im stuck in Romans 7,""
So, when what you are doing is confessing sin, and talking about sin, and have no spiritual power, and all you can do is talk abou it, then you are "apart" and that is because your faith is wrong.
Its broken.

5 Should we resist Him or obey Him?

Reader,
(some of you)...
If you want to obey God, then get your faith right and put down Moses Law, and then you wont be talking about sin, feeling condemned, worried about losing your salvaiton, and unable to learn any bible.

 

[Behold]

I've heard these objections before, but these are definitely Christians that false teachers have gotten their claws into with the Reformationist lie that "sin is sin" and all sin is equal whether willful or unintentional.

Jesus said that some sin is "greater".

26 For if we sin willfully

Every sin, is willfull.... unless its commited in an act of mad passion.

I do tire of self rightesous people who want to pretend that all their carnal deeds (works of the Flesh). are "accidents" when God knows they are nearly all willful.

Paul teaches us about that willful carnality here..

"Use not your Liberty, (God's Grace) for an occasion to the flesh".

= Means........"dont choose to enjoy some carnality now that you know that you are eternally forgiven".

after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

So you are again trying to prove that you can lose your salvation, as every Pentcostal-Charismatic feels a "inner compulsion" to try to prove it.
Ive seen this for 40 yrs, regarding the people who are caught up in those denominations.

And you have no idea that this insults God's Son's Blood.

And the reason you are blind to this, @1stCenturyLady .... is becaue the Pentecostal -Heretical Charismatic theological junk that trained you to falsly believe you can lose your salvation is too deeply rooted in you, so you are unable to recognize that this teaching is a Cross Rejecting Lie, that spits on the very Blood of Jesus.
What you have in your mind, is a STRONGHOLD, and that is why you can't accept that Jesus keeps you saved, and not your silly self effort.

And dont now lie and say that you believe that Jesus keeps you saved in any subsequent post that follows this one where you are again lying to these members by telling them that you can lose your salvation.

Also, as i was explaining to a member........"receiving the knowledge of the truth" only means that its been revealed to your heart by the Holy Spirit.
It does not mean you have taken the next step of FAITH and God saved you, thereby.

28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.

The born again are not under "moses law"......so your verse is not doctrinally applicable to a CHRISTian, but it fits an unsaved HEBREW very well in Hebrews Chapters 6 & 10 doesn't it.

29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing,

To be sanctified you have to believe in Christ and be born again.........and then the sanctification happens.

1 Corin 1:30 .. (KJV).

Wheereas when an Apostle is preaching Christ to Unsaved Hebrews, in the Book of HEBREWS... then they are not yet saved....however they did taste the heavenly gift, as that happened when the Holy Spirit caused them to "come to the knowledge of the truth".
Its also a fact that is not clearly revealed by those chapters that this Apostle performed "signs of an Apostle" before them, because "jews requrie a sign".....and so, to see that happen is ALSO to taste the "Heavenly Gift"... as Apostolic Signs.. 2 Corin 12:12 are a heavenly GIFT.
YET< these unsaved HEBREWS "willfully sinned" and wont have it.... even after "tasting the heavenly gift".....= because they are willful Christ Rejectors who are stomping on the Blood of Jesus., thereby committing the unpardonable sin.
Read about it again in..

Acts 28:28

and insulted the Spirit of grace?

Insulting the "Spirit of Grace" is to deny that The Blood of Jesus that provided forgiveness, continues to do so, forever.
In other words, to insult The Cross is to teach that you can "lose your salvation" as that teaching completely denies the power of The Cross and the Blood Atonement.
And that is what you do, as that is who you are, as a "religious person" on this forum... @1stCenturyLady .

And you'll do it again......

30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,”

The Cross is the "ARK" whereby all true born again Christians are kept safe from God's Wrath, as they are "not appointed to it"...

NO born again believer will ever face "God's wrath", because Jesus has already been given it all by God on The Cross.
Jesus took all of God's wrath on The Cross so that the truly born again will never have to face it.
(Thank you Jesus).
Hallelujah !
And of course a lifelong Charismatic like you @1stCenturyLady who believes you can lose her salvation will never understand God's Grace.
Never.

says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.”

The born again will be judged at the Judgement Seat of Christ.....but NEVER For their sin.....as Jesus has already been judged for them ALL on The Cross.

A.) "God hath made Jesus to BE SIN FOR US">.. (US = the born again).....because Jesus is the "ONE TIME ETERNAL Sacrifice for sin".

Look up the definition of "eternal", and see if that sounds like it could be a temporary situation, @1stCenturyLady .

= Jesus is the "one time ETERNAL Sacrifice for sin".

31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Lost Hellboud Sinners should beware of John 3:36.... absolutely.

Whereas Belevers should have no concern about God's wrath at all.......as the only thing they are going to receive once they leave this earth, is a "New Body" and "rewards" discovered at the "bema seat of Christ".

 

[Anchorite]

Its not written to Jewish believers in those verses.......as The Apostle would know that He does not have to get Beleivers to again trust in Christ.
See, You are so very badly instructed that you dont even recognize that the Apostle is giving them the GOSPEL. @PS95 .

You have no respect for others. You just obsessively keep hammering away at your warped libertine ideology.

PS95 told you she does not want to keep arguing with you, but you persist.

Telling her “You are so badly instructed that you don’t even…” is an arrogant, insulting, personal attack.

Is this what you call walking in holiness?

PS95 said to you:

Behold. No offense - I'm sure you are a nice person. I believe that you love the Lord. But I didn't tag you on my post for a reason. We disagree on much. Holiness does have to do with how we act and we are cautioned against sins. We are given the righteousness of Christ and we are to walk in that righteousness.
It is not merely a one time prayer and that's that- the end. That is the beginning- our walk is ongoing and we are being transformed into being more and more like Jesus.
Thanks for your reply but I don't want to argue this with you again. We've done it over and over, and I give you verses and you give me the same lecture each time as if I think if I sin that I'm not saved.
I do not think that, but it doesn't make me happy to do something that doesn't please the Lord. I don't just take in stride or ignore it.
Try to get that.

 

[quietthinker]

Consider that "holiness" is not how you ""act.""
As in that case you are acting., and any religious fool can play that game, and many do it, on my Threads, as well as on others.
Many do it every Sunday, as they run to the front pew to get that SEAT.

Listen carefully.........God gives to the Believer His own Righteousness, or you are not righteous ....which means that you are not holy, no matter how you "act".
God is not interested in our "acting"...>>He is only interested in our FAITH......as "without faith, it is IMPOSSIBLE to please God":.

So, that means that all your effort to be "more like Christ" is just your self effort ACT, and He's not interested in that behavior, at all.

Conflating news with advice ensures confusion!

 

[Lambano]

There have been many times when a thought popped into my head that I didn't want.
To me just having the thought was sinful- but not deadly- it's a reminder though that I still sin.

Interesting point, though I could argue that your lying to your friend started when you began feeling irritated with her. That flows from what Jesus taught in the Sermon on mount - Murder starts with Anger, and Adultery starts with Lust. (Matthew 5:21-30)

I confessed my sin but I still didn't go with her. Maybe I just should have gone..

Wouldn't that have been a lie too?

I realize now that I need to always let the Spirit control me- every second. I'm just not always able to do that. Does anyone know how? idk

I wish I knew. How does that "letting the Spirit control you" thing work? It sounds nice and "spiritual", but most of the time, I'm not aware of the Spirit's presence at all, and sometimes when I thought I sensed the Spirit's presence, I realized later that I was probably wrong.

A handful of folks here have testified that they experienced "walking in the Spirit" as what I would describe as an altered state of consciousness. I've never experienced that myself, but I find the concept fascinating. I wonder if that's what the prophets experienced?

 

[ProDeo]

If Jesus has paid for your sin, 2000 yrs ago with His blood and death, then you can believe this as you should, and once you do get your faith right, you'll stop wasting your time confessing what is already eternally forgiven.

What ?!

A Psalm of David, when Nathan the prophet went to him, after he had gone in to Bathsheba

Ps 51:1 Have mercy on me, O God, according to your steadfast love; according to your abundant mercy blot out my transgressions.
Ps 51:2 Wash me thoroughly from my iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin!
Ps 51:3 For I know my transgressions, and my sin is ever before me.
Ps 51:4 Against you, you only, have I sinned and done what is evil in your sight, so that you may be justified in your words and blameless in your judgment.
Ps 51:5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Ps 51:6 Behold, you delight in truth in the inward being, and you teach me wisdom in the secret heart.
Ps 51:7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean; wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
Ps 51:8 Let me hear joy and gladness; let the bones that you have broken rejoice.
Ps 51:9 Hide your face from my sins, and blot out all my iniquities.
Ps 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me.
Ps 51:11 Cast me not away from your presence, and take not your Holy Spirit from me.

Following what you just preached a David living 2000 years later would not have confessed his terrible sin and not had written Psalm 51? Can a born again cheat his wife without a brutal honest and regretful sin confession like King David did all in the open as a lesson to learn? No need following @Behold , you are wasting your time, the words you have chosen to trust to the forum members.

Terrible bro.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

eans........"dont choose to enjoy some carnality now that you know that you are eternally forgiven".

Hmmm! Brother, that is not the meaning of grace. I really thought you knew that. Ask yourself, "what is the gospel" seeing it is grace. It is the power of God.

Every sin, is willfull.... unless its commited in an act of mad passion.

I do tire of self rightesous people who want to pretend that all their carnal deeds (works of the Flesh). are "accidents" when God knows they are nearly all willful.

Paul teaches us about that willful carnality here..

"Use not your Liberty, (God's Grace) for an occasion to the flesh".

= Means........"dont choose to enjoy some carnality now that you know that you are eternally forgiven".

I don't believe "every sin is willfull." The Bible doesn't teach that. It teaches that some are unintentional. But, I've heard many Calvary Chapel pastors on "To Every Man An Answer" radio program say every sin we commit is willful too. And according to the Bible they are just as wrong as what you just said.

What I tire of are people that cannot discern what is self righteousness and righteousness. You might as well just say, Paul was self righteous, and be just as wrong. You are batting a thousand in being wrong. And here I thought our doctrines were not that far off from one another. I was wrong.

So you are again trying to prove that you can lose your salvation, as every Pentcostal-Charismatic feels a "inner compulsion" to try to prove it.
Ive seen this for 40 yrs, regarding the people who are caught up in those denominations.

And you have no idea that this insults God's Son's Blood.

And the reason you are blind to this, @1stCenturyLady .... is becaue the Pentecostal -Heretical Charismatic theological junk that trained you to falsly believe you can lose your salvation is too deeply rooted in you, so you are unable to recognize that this teaching is a Cross Rejecting Lie, that spits on the very Blood of Jesus.
What you have in your mind, is a STRONGHOLD, and that is why you can't accept that Jesus keeps you saved, and not your silly self effort.

And dont now lie and say that you believe that Jesus keeps you saved in any subsequent post that follows this one where you are again lying to these members by telling them that you can lose your salvation.

Also, as i was explaining to a member........"receiving the knowledge of the truth" only means that its been revealed to your heart by the Holy Spirit.
It does not mean you have taken the next step of FAITH and God saved you, thereby.

1st sentence: You would have to be illiterate to believe we can't lose our salvation as the Bible makes it clear.

2nd sentence: What insults God's Son's Blood is sinning willfully. Believing God's Word is not an insult.

3rd paragraph: What you just said is called "reviling." And again, you are wrong. I prefer Pentecostal churches to visit most, because they believe the entire Word of God and keep it. But because they are Protestants, they are just as wrong on the doctrine of sin as other Protestant churches. The RCC held to a truth that the Reformers did not bring with them and turned the doctrine of sin into "sin is sin." Many horrendous doctrines are believed by most Protestants.

4th paraphrah: I don't lie, period.

5th paraphraph: I believe your first sentence and agree. I don't understand your last sentence. Maybe you could supply a Scripture.

The born again are not under "moses law"......so your verse is not doctrinally applicable to a CHRISTian, but it fits an unsaved HEBREW very well in Hebrews Chapters 6 & 10 doesn't it.

I agree we are not under Moses' Law and Paul or Barnabas, not Apollos, the writer, is not saying we are, merely reminding those Hebrew Christians reading this book of an old law and that the New Covenant is much greater than the Old Covenant.

To be sanctified you have to believe in Christ and be born again.........and then the sanctification happens.

1 Corin 1:30 .. (KJV).

Wheereas when an Apostle is preaching Christ to Unsaved Hebrews, in the Book of HEBREWS... then they are not yet saved....however they did taste the heavenly gift, as that happened when the Holy Spirit caused them to "come to the knowledge of the truth".
Its also a fact that is not clearly revealed by those chapters that this Apostle performed "signs of an Apostle" before them, because "jews requrie a sign".....and so, to see that happen is ALSO to taste the "Heavenly Gift"... as Apostolic Signs.. 2 Corin 12:12 are a heavenly GIFT.
YET< these unsaved HEBREWS "willfully sinned" and wont have it.... even after "tasting the heavenly gift".....= because they are willful Christ Rejectors who are stomping on the Blood of Jesus., thereby committing the unpardonable sin.
Read about it again in..

Acts 28:28

I don't agree this is just to unsaved Jews.

28 “Therefore let it be known to you that the salvation of God has been sent to the Gentiles, and they will hear it!”

Insulting the "Spirit of Grace" is to deny that The Blood of Jesus that provided forgiveness, continues to do so, forever.
In other words, to insult The Cross is to teach that you can "lose your salvation" as that teaching completely denies the power of The Cross and the Blood Atonement.
And that is what you do, as that is who you are, as a "religious person" on this forum... @1stCenturyLady .

And you'll do it again......

It is more than "provided forgiveness." The blood of Jesus took away all desire to sin willfully and lawlessly. Therefore, to sin willful is insulting the Spirit of Grace.

Do you also believe as other OSASers that all your past, present and future sins have already been forgiven? In other words, do you still sin? That would be "willfully," as you've already said you believe all sin is willful.

The Cross is the "ARK" whereby all true born again Christians are kept safe from God's Wrath, as they are "not appointed to it"...

NO born again believer will ever face "God's wrath", because Jesus has already been given it all by God on The Cross.
Jesus took all of God's wrath on The Cross so that the truly born again will never have to face it.
(Thank you Jesus).
Hallelujah !
And of course a lifelong Charismatic like you @1stCenturyLady who believes you can lose her salvation will never understand God's Grace.
Never.

I've gone to church all my life, but was a cessationist until I was about 23. Then after believing the gifts of the Spirit are still for today, I sought the baptism for about 6 years before I finally received it on 2/9/77. I'll never forget that date. My life changed forever.

The born again will be judged at the Judgement Seat of Christ.....but NEVER For their sin.....as Jesus has already been judged for them ALL on The Cross.

A.) "God hath made Jesus to BE SIN FOR US">.. (US = the born again).....because Jesus is the "ONE TIME ETERNAL Sacrifice for sin".

Look up the definition of "eternal", and see if that sounds like it could be a temporary situation, @1stCenturyLady .

= Jesus is the "one time ETERNAL Sacrifice for sin".

It is because our beliefs are radically different that you believe all sin is willful and I don't, and you believe in OSAS and I don't.

Lost Hellboud Sinners should beware of John 3:36.... absolutely.

Whereas Belevers should have no concern about God's wrath at all.......as the only thing they are going to receive once they leave this earth, is a "New Body" and "rewards" discovered at the "bema seat of Christ".

Question. Do you believe a born again Christian is able to do any of these sins in Galatian 5:19-21 and only lose rewards?

 

[PS95]

Interesting point, though I could argue that your lying to your friend started when you began feeling irritated with her. That flows from what Jesus taught in the Sermon on mount - Murder starts with Anger, and Adultery starts with Lust. (Matthew 5:21-30)

I don't remember being angry - but I was getting annoyed which is a precursor. I just wanted out of the invite and I felt pressured which was uncomfortable. I've known her since we were kids. Looking back, I should have just gone, and that would have settled it. Instead of just being gracious to her request, I was caught up in myself. That's my 20/20. But you do make a good point- could be. annoyance leads to anger which -- it was springing up
How do we never get annoyed? It's ok to feel angry but we are told not to sin . I blew that!
Hallelujah for the cross!
The perfection idea in scripture- I see it as being perfected in love. When we love we don't sin. What troubled me with her request is that she didn't really want to go either- she didn't have the nerve to say no to them. So she decided to drag me into it for company. My view was just cancel.. but she wouldn't. None of that justifies my lie.

Wouldn't that have been a lie too?

Not sure I follow this? She knew I didn't want to go- and if I did go, it was not gonna be happily. She was asking a favor. I let her down.

I wish I knew. How does that "letting the Spirit control you" thing work? It sounds nice and "spiritual", but most of the time, I'm not aware of the Spirit's presence at all, and sometimes when I thought I sensed the Spirit's presence, I realized later that I was probably wrong.

A handful of folks here have testified that they experienced "walking in the Spirit" as what I would describe as an altered state of consciousness. I've never experienced that myself, but I find the concept fascinating. I wonder if that's what the prophets experienced?

There isn't a whole lot written about it., I know. I think an altered state of consciousness is a one way to put it.-An awareness of a loving presence for sure- you know. Hard to describe except the fruits in Galatians. You are filled with those fruits of the Spirit. It's not something we can do our own. Sometimes, it seems to be for a certain purpose and once it's done- it's over. Here's one example-

One time, I recall I was cooking, and I suddenly felt the need to stop, and go find my husband to tell him to preach the gospel to his mom. I wasn't thinking about that at all- I just suddenly felt the need to do that. I was filled with joy and peace. When I found him -
he was in the garage and was on the phone with his mom and he was speaking about Jesus to her.
I told him, and he nodded and smiled at me.
( we had shared with her other times, of course, but she would say, I was born catholic and I will die that way- she was a very nominal catholic in name only- very materialistic and a difficult person who would occasionally bury a saint statue in her yard for the answer to a desire.) My husband told me that what I said to him gave him the encouragement to keep speaking with his mom.
She died not too long after that.--


I can say just that there have been many times when I was acutely aware of the presence of the Spirit. Sometimes while praying- other times reading scripture, and other times just going about my day. It can be what I call a "knowing" where I am given clarity on a verse in my mind out of nowhere- I wasn't even asking about it but had only wondered about it. The clarity comes deep inside of me and I can't deny it- I just "know" it did not come from me.- and it is truth.
Other times, I have been warned or given info that only God could tell me. That is usually during prayer.

Those are just a few examples. I've been filled with joy and peace during worship - even just while singing to God. It's not just happy but unexplainable JOY. Where nothing else matters- complete peace.
It's all fleeting though. That's what I suppose my question is. Did I do something to cause it to end or is that just how it is?

There is no way a person could sin IMO while that is happening in them. IMO

But when I'm just having a regular day- while I know not to sin and certainly don't wish to- and am able to do what's right etc- but I am not feeling any presence per say- I try to keep my mind fixed on Jesus- running verses thru my mind as I go about my day or a song or praise, etc.. and that is all good--
- BUT when I go out and encounter others and they're chatting away about whatever- I find it hard to interact with others discussing things of this world and praise at the same time. lol-
If they are Christians or not doesn't seem to even matter. I can get caught up in the convo and maybe say something I otherwise would not. Nothing truly awful- but not salted.
Or like that time when I actually lied to a friend- a sister . -wow-
I'm going back to your anger theory- and it could very well be.. when people debate- that's hard. When someone is rude or disagrees in mean way- is too pushy- etc I need to work on that. Being "offended' is something I need to take in stride better. Discussing worldly things is a tricky one for sure.
Is that why Paul said things like-- rejoice always- pray without ceasing- psalms and hyms and spiritual songs in your heart- focus on the good. I THINK SO. There is so much truth to those. I only knew they are true by doing them.

Not yet "perfected" in love? IF i understand that right and I'm not sure I do-- could be the problem.

Walk in the Spirit and you wont fulfill the lusts of the flesh.
Galatians 5
16I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

19Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

I think you hit on something, Lambano and thank you. It begins within us, and we don't even notice the seed sprouting into sin. That list above isn't complete but close. I was uncomfortable with her idea and felt I was being pushed, so I got annoyed and just wanted out.
I guess we can call that contention.. or I was being selfish feeling she was a burden. It wasn't love... That sprung up into sin.
I think it could very well come down to what Peter taught us in 2 Peter 1:2-15. It seems like a lot to have to do- not to ever stumble. BUT in verse 3 he says- we have been given by His divine power all things that pertain to life and godliness.. then comes his list. So we can have confidence in Him to gain victory. (brotherly kindness is where I went down)

My Q for you- have you prayed on this? Prayer changes things. Spill out your heart to Him and ask being confident that He gives to those who ask.

 

[Behold]

You have no respect for others.

Listen @Anchorite ,

I have no respect (ZERO) for people who are not students of the word, yet who pretend they can teach the bible on Christian forums.
These same typically tell me that i have no "respect"., ect.
But in fact, i do have repect........i respect the fact that on this forum, there are a few people here who have some bible knowledge, want to learn more, and they are able to share what they know.
They get my respect, and my "Likes".
But the others......the "we dont care about Truth, we just want you to be nice to people who TEACH theological garbage"........they will never get my repect.. @Anchorite

You just obsessively keep hammering away at your warped libertine ideology.

You dont have the ability to even try to explain what it is, that you disagree with, that you falsely claim i teach.
All you can do, is insinuate. @Anchorite
In fact, if you tried to explain what im teaching, about Grace, you can't do it.......you'll just continue to be confused, as that is the state of all religious pretenders who come my way.
My Threads, for example, are a spiritual magnet that attracts heretics......thats a fact., and they are designed to do it.

PS95 told you she does not want to keep arguing with you, but you persist.

I "persisted" only as a response, little one.
Once i responded, to their false theology and personal insinuations, i stopped posting to them.
I think that even someone like you, would agree that if you post to me, i am allowed to return with a post.

That's how a forum works, in case you dont understand...... @Anchorite

Telling her “You are so badly instructed that you don’t even…” is an arrogant, insulting, personal attack.

Well, what you dont know about me is that im a Legit Seminary Trained Evangelist who has the gift of "teaching".
I have a REAL ministry in REAL life, and when i have FREE TIME< i will go to Forums like this one, and try to shake them up, and get them STRAIGHT.
My teaching Gift is one of the 9 "gifts of the Spirit" that Paul listed., and ive been an Evangelist, probably longer then you've been alive...
Ive taught all over this world.......both sides of it, for a long time.
Ive performed nearly every "church office", tho ive never been a Deconess, because i am not a woman.

You can read my 400+ Threads here, if you need proof of my ability to teach about GOD's Grace who is JESUS on The Cross, that is the Blood Atonement, that is the NEW TESTAMENT.
Or, you can ask me a legit theological question, and i'll prove it to you anytime you need the proof.
You are even welecome to PM me, with your questions, as this happens a lot, because some here want to learn some bible, but they dont want to ask me on the forum because they dont want to deal with all the religious self-righteous people who get in the way of the real bible students on my Threads.

Listen ,
If a person is """badly instructed""" , regarding Theology, then that is just a fact.. , and if i dont try to help them, then im not showing them LOVE.

PS95 seems to me to be a nice person, but she's badly taught.......as i said.
That is not an insult, that is a reality check.

Listen, I dont blame Her......i blame their cult, or their teacher, or their commentary set , or the UTBE Video that has harmed their understanding of God's Salvation.

.......and if they are shown this, then that is not an insult, its an offer to help.
You might take notice that i will tell someone like you, who has no deep understanding of the Scriptures....that you dont, but then i will share with you a teaching that you lack to help you get some depth.....so that you might be able to come out of your theological issue. @Anchorite.
I dont want you to remain a Heb 6:1 all your life.
Understand?

Now, i'll give you a solution.

When you are on a forum....>NEVER Pick SIDES.....only Choose TRUTH.

You're not there yet, but ive shown you the way out.... @Anchorite

Is this what you call walking in holiness?

All scripture is given for a few reasons.. according to Paul.

and "instruction" is one of them.
If you dont like to be instructed then that is because you are too pride filled to want to learn.
Get over yourself @Anchorite .

In fact, im always willing to have a nice long discussion about Theology with anyone here.......but what makes this difficult is if what they are teaching, or what they believe, (same thing) is an insult to the Grace of God and The Cross of Christ.
So, that has to be corrected, and that means the person is going to become angry when they are corrected.
That is what happened to you, which is why you are talking about some person that was having a "energetic" coversation with me, as if that is your business, and in fact, its not @Anchorite .

Understand?

 

[Linda]

I see you've been taught that the body holds sin in it. Jesus taught us to be perfect. You haven't been taught what it means to be actually born again of the Spirit. That is now while we are alive and has NOTHING to do with our body and why our nature can be cleansed from ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS now. A born again Christian is a new creation. When purified we have no more consciousness of sin, Hebrews 10:2. Compare that with Romans 7:14-25 that is the life of someone under the Old Covenant law as Paul had been when he was a Pharisee and was very aware of sin.

Romans 8:1 makes an emphatic statement
Of no condemnation for those who are in
Christ, yes?

The problem is, we arent our own judge.
We can think we are in Christ and be right
In our humble opinion, or we can be wrong.
When we see that scripture Supercedes
Our own judgement, tells us “ we really dont
Know, no matter how right or wrong we can
Be, “ God said we are all going to stand
Before Him and give an account to Him,
As He judges us all, whereby with reading
“ each of us” means noone is excluded,
So our own verdicts dont even measure
Up to be God in judging ourselves, and thats
Why noone can judge themselves.

This also confirms the scripture that tells us, “ work out your own salvation with fear and
Trembling, “ as in fear = wisdom

We are told to keep working on ourselves
Our salvation with fear and trembling, until
The time at which we stand before God..

God said, “ my grace i give to the humble”
The Proud I despise”

Whenever we presume our own eternity
With God no matter if we are Mother Teresa,
Its still Presumptuous, and presumption is
The sin of Pride!

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Romans 8:1 makes an emphatic statement
Of no condemnation for those who are in
Christ, yes?

No. You are quoting from a modern Bible that has the condition missing. The first part is true ONLY if the condition is met.

 

[Angelina]

Hi @Linda,

I agree that God alone is the final Judge and that we should walk in humility before Him. However, I do not believe that biblical assurance is the same thing as presumption.

The apostle John wrote:
"These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life" (1 John 5:13).

Our confidence is not in our own assessment of ourselves, but in Christ and His promises. If God says those who believe have eternal life, then trusting His word is faith, not pride.

Philippians 2:12 does tell us to work out our salvation with fear and trembling, but the very next verse says, "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13). The passage is about living out the salvation God has already worked in us, not remaining uncertain of whether we belong to Him.

Likewise, Romans 8:16 says, "The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God."

So while believers should continually examine themselves and remain humble, Scripture also teaches that we can have assurance based on God's testimony concerning His Son. Assurance rests in Christ's finished work, not in our own goodness or performance.