How Confidant Are You Being Saved?

[bdavidc]

do we have salvation here and now or only justification

is justification the same as salvation

thks

Yes, believers have salvation here and now, because Scripture says so plainly.

Jesus said, “He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life” ~John 5:24.

That is present possession, not merely a future possibility. He “hath everlasting life.” He “is passed from death unto life.” Jesus did not say the believer might pass from death to life if he maintains enough obedience afterward.

Paul says, “For by grace are ye saved through faith” ~Ephesians 2:8. He does not say we are only partly saved, or only initially justified, while the rest depends on our works. Titus 3:5 says, “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us.”

Justification is not the same word as salvation, but it is part of salvation. Salvation is the larger work of God. It includes justification, sanctification, and final glorification. Justification deals with our legal standing before God. “Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ” ~Romans 5:1.

So yes, the justified man is saved. A man cannot be justified before God and still be under condemnation. Romans 8:30 says, “whom he justified, them he also glorified.” God does not justify a man, then leave his final salvation hanging on human performance.

There is also a future aspect of salvation, because believers still wait for the redemption of the body. Paul says, “now is our salvation nearer than when we believed” ~Romans 13:11. Peter says believers are “kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time” ~1 Peter 1:5.

That does not mean we are unsaved now. It means the salvation we already possess in Christ will be brought to its final completion by God Himself. “He which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ” ~Philippians 1:6.

So the answer is simple. We have salvation now in Christ, and we await its final completion in glory. Justification is not the whole of salvation, but no one is saved without being justified, and no one truly justified will fail to be saved. Christ does not lose those whom He saves.

“For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified” ~Hebrews 10:14.

 

[JustMe]

How very passive aggressive of you. I've come to the conclusion the question comes from the Adversary. In reading James 4:11-12 and Philippians 2:12, do you get the impression we should judge ourselves at all, let alone judge ourselves with certainty of our ultimate fate?

I kindly and gently recommend that you learn what it truly means to be passive-aggressive. I suspect you are using this term to describe my response in order to dismiss or downplay its importance, especially since it directly addresses you.

Here are some key points for you to consider:

Direct Communication: Passive aggression involves expressing negative emotions indirectly or through subtle hints, such as sarcasm, ambiguous remarks, or covert comments, rather than stating them clearly.

Explicit Content: Making a straightforward statement about someone's spiritual condition is a clear expression of your opinion, even if it is confrontational or critical.

Biblical Perspective: Christian teachings on resolving conflicts, like those in Matthew 18:15-17, encourage believers to address issues openly and lovingly, contrasting with the "cowardly" and "dishonest" nature of passive-aggressive communication, which avoids honest conversation.

I hope you desire open dialogue and do not want to be cowardly or dishonest on such an important topic. Trying to end this discussion with inaccurate and unhelpful labels will not make my words disappear. Sooner or later, you will need to face them.

Remember, being saved means you are gradually living increasingly through a renewed heart and mind, with old ways fading away over time. You now fully trust God's words on this matter and see your Creator with new understanding, confidence, reverence, and humility, recognizing the complete helplessness of human nature to save itself without God and His Son's intervention.

Today, you are either in a state of salvation or you are not. There is no middle ground or back-and-forth between salvation and non-salvation during your lifetime, even in the face of doubt or unrepentant sin.

 

[faithhopecharity]

Yes, believers have salvation here and now, because Scripture says so plainly.

Jesus said, “He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life” ~John 5:24.

That is present possession, not merely a future possibility. He “hath everlasting life.” He “is passed from death unto life.” Jesus did not say the believer might pass from death to life if he maintains enough obedience afterward.

Paul says, “For by grace are ye saved through faith” ~Ephesians 2:8. He does not say we are only partly saved, or only initially justified, while the rest depends on our works. Titus 3:5 says, “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us.”

Justification is not the same word as salvation, but it is part of salvation. Salvation is the larger work of God. It includes justification, sanctification, and final glorification. Justification deals with our legal standing before God. “Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ” ~Romans 5:1.

So yes, the justified man is saved. A man cannot be justified before God and still be under condemnation. Romans 8:30 says, “whom he justified, them he also glorified.” God does not justify a man, then leave his final salvation hanging on human performance.

There is also a future aspect of salvation, because believers still wait for the redemption of the body. Paul says, “now is our salvation nearer than when we believed” ~Romans 13:11. Peter says believers are “kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time” ~1 Peter 1:5.

That does not mean we are unsaved now. It means the salvation we already possess in Christ will be brought to its final completion by God Himself. “He which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ” ~Philippians 1:6.

So the answer is simple. We have salvation now in Christ, and we await its final completion in glory. Justification is not the whole of salvation, but no one is saved without being justified, and no one truly justified will fail to be saved. Christ does not lose those whom He saves.

“For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified” ~Hebrews 10:14.

can you pass back into death?
thks

 

[faithhopecharity]

Yes, believers have salvation here and now, because Scripture says so plainly.

Jesus said, “He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life” ~John 5:24.

That is present possession, not merely a future possibility. He “hath everlasting life.” He “is passed from death unto life.” Jesus did not say the believer might pass from death to life if he maintains enough obedience afterward.

Paul says, “For by grace are ye saved through faith” ~Ephesians 2:8. He does not say we are only partly saved, or only initially justified, while the rest depends on our works. Titus 3:5 says, “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us.”

Justification is not the same word as salvation, but it is part of salvation. Salvation is the larger work of God. It includes justification, sanctification, and final glorification. Justification deals with our legal standing before God. “Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ” ~Romans 5:1.

So yes, the justified man is saved. A man cannot be justified before God and still be under condemnation. Romans 8:30 says, “whom he justified, them he also glorified.” God does not justify a man, then leave his final salvation hanging on human performance.

There is also a future aspect of salvation, because believers still wait for the redemption of the body. Paul says, “now is our salvation nearer than when we believed” ~Romans 13:11. Peter says believers are “kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time” ~1 Peter 1:5.

That does not mean we are unsaved now. It means the salvation we already possess in Christ will be brought to its final completion by God Himself. “He which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ” ~Philippians 1:6.

So the answer is simple. We have salvation now in Christ, and we await its final completion in glory. Justification is not the whole of salvation, but no one is saved without being justified, and no one truly justified will fail to be saved. Christ does not lose those whom He saves.

“For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified” ~Hebrews 10:14.

a question: then after your saved, can you rob banks, murder the gaurds, spend the cash on drunken revelry with whores and still be saved, die and go directly to heaven?

thks

 

[faithhopecharity]

Yes, believers have salvation here and now, because Scripture says so plainly.

Jesus said, “He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life” ~John 5:24.

That is present possession, not merely a future possibility. He “hath everlasting life.” He “is passed from death unto life.” Jesus did not say the believer might pass from death to life if he maintains enough obedience afterward.

Paul says, “For by grace are ye saved through faith” ~Ephesians 2:8. He does not say we are only partly saved, or only initially justified, while the rest depends on our works. Titus 3:5 says, “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us.”

Justification is not the same word as salvation, but it is part of salvation. Salvation is the larger work of God. It includes justification, sanctification, and final glorification. Justification deals with our legal standing before God. “Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ” ~Romans 5:1.

So yes, the justified man is saved. A man cannot be justified before God and still be under condemnation. Romans 8:30 says, “whom he justified, them he also glorified.” God does not justify a man, then leave his final salvation hanging on human performance.

There is also a future aspect of salvation, because believers still wait for the redemption of the body. Paul says, “now is our salvation nearer than when we believed” ~Romans 13:11. Peter says believers are “kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time” ~1 Peter 1:5.

That does not mean we are unsaved now. It means the salvation we already possess in Christ will be brought to its final completion by God Himself. “He which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ” ~Philippians 1:6.

So the answer is simple. We have salvation now in Christ, and we await its final completion in glory. Justification is not the whole of salvation, but no one is saved without being justified, and no one truly justified will fail to be saved. Christ does not lose those whom He saves.

“For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified” ~Hebrews 10:14.

how is mortal sin involved in all this

the sin unto spiritual death

thks

 

[bdavidc]

can you pass back into death?
thks

No, not if the person has truly passed from death unto life.

Jesus did not leave that open. He said, “He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life” ~John 5:24.

That is not temporary life. That is not probationary life. That is everlasting life. If a man who has everlasting life can pass back into spiritual death and condemnation, then Christ’s words “shall not come into condemnation” are not true. I am not willing to say that.

Jesus also said, “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand” ~John 10:27-28.

So the question is not whether a religious professor can fall away. Scripture says false professors do fall away. The question is whether one of Christ’s sheep, to whom He gives eternal life, can perish after Jesus said they shall never perish. The answer is no.

John says the same thing: “We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren” ~1 John 3:14. He does not say we passed from death to life and may later pass back into death. He says this passing from death unto life is something believers can know.

If someone abandons Christ and remains in unbelief, Scripture does not describe that as a saved man losing eternal life. It says, “They went out from us, but they were not of us” ~1 John 2:19.

So no, a truly born again believer does not pass back into death. Christ gives eternal life, not temporary life. He saves His sheep, keeps His sheep, and loses none of His sheep.

“This is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing” ~John 6:39.

 

[bdavidc]

how is mortal sin involved in all this

the sin unto spiritual death

thks

The problem is that “mortal sin” is not the way the Bible explains salvation. That is a category people bring to the Bible. It is not what the Bible plainly teaches.

Yes, sin is serious. Nobody is denying that. “The wages of sin is death” ~Romans 6:23. A real believer should never play games with sin. God chastens His children, and sometimes that chastening can be severe.

But Scripture does not teach that a truly born again believer keeps passing from life back into spiritual death every time he commits a certain kind of sin. Jesus said the believer “hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life” ~John 5:24.

That is the issue. If Jesus says the believer has everlasting life and shall not come into condemnation, I am not going to turn around and say he can lose that life and come back under condemnation.

1 John 5:16-17 speaks of “a sin unto death,” but John does not say that means a justified believer loses eternal life. You are reading that into the passage. The Bible does show God judging sin with physical death. Ananias and Sapphira died in Acts 5. Some in Corinth were weak, sick, and some had died because of their abuse of the Lord’s supper ~1 Corinthians 11:30.

But Paul says something important right after that: “But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world” ~1 Corinthians 11:32.

That is not a saved man losing salvation. That is God disciplining His own so they are not condemned with the world.

So yes, sin can bring judgment. Sin can ruin a life. Sin can expose a false professor. Sin can bring the Lord’s chastening. But no, Scripture does not teach that one of Christ’s sheep is spiritually unborn, unjustified, and thrown back into condemnation.

Jesus said, “I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish” ~John 10:28. I believe Him.

If a man lives in unrepentant wickedness, I would not comfort him with assurance. I would tell him to repent and examine himself. But I will not change the gospel into faith plus works to stay justified.

Christ saves His people from their sins. He does not save them so they can live in sin, and He does not keep them saved because their works are good enough.

“Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ” ~Philippians 1:6.

 

[faithhopecharity]

No, not if the person has truly passed from death unto life.

Jesus did not leave that open. He said, “He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life” ~John 5:24.

That is not temporary life. That is not probationary life. That is everlasting life. If a man who has everlasting life can pass back into spiritual death and condemnation, then Christ’s words “shall not come into condemnation” are not true. I am not willing to say that.

Jesus also said, “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand” ~John 10:27-28.

So the question is not whether a religious professor can fall away. Scripture says false professors do fall away. The question is whether one of Christ’s sheep, to whom He gives eternal life, can perish after Jesus said they shall never perish. The answer is no.

John says the same thing: “We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren” ~1 John 3:14. He does not say we passed from death to life and may later pass back into death. He says this passing from death unto life is something believers can know.

If someone abandons Christ and remains in unbelief, Scripture does not describe that as a saved man losing eternal life. It says, “They went out from us, but they were not of us” ~1 John 2:19.

So no, a truly born again believer does not pass back into death. Christ gives eternal life, not temporary life. He saves His sheep, keeps His sheep, and loses none of His sheep.

“This is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing” ~John 6:39.

“We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren” ~1 John 3:14. He does not say we passed from death to life and may later pass back into death.

but He does say we have eternal life (grace)

1 John 5:11
And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

this man has life

1 John 3:15
Whosoever hateth his brother is amurderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

now he lost grace and is spiritually dead, requiring repentance and confession

thks

 

[Wrangler]

Jesus also said, “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand” ~John 10:27-28.

How do you reconcile this with Jesus saying even people who perform miracles in his name, he never knew?

 

[faithhopecharity]

No, not if the person has truly passed from death unto life.

Jesus did not leave that open. He said, “He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life” ~John 5:24.

That is not temporary life. That is not probationary life. That is everlasting life. If a man who has everlasting life can pass back into spiritual death and condemnation, then Christ’s words “shall not come into condemnation” are not true. I am not willing to say that.

Jesus also said, “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand” ~John 10:27-28.

So the question is not whether a religious professor can fall away. Scripture says false professors do fall away. The question is whether one of Christ’s sheep, to whom He gives eternal life, can perish after Jesus said they shall never perish. The answer is no.

John says the same thing: “We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren” ~1 John 3:14. He does not say we passed from death to life and may later pass back into death. He says this passing from death unto life is something believers can know.

If someone abandons Christ and remains in unbelief, Scripture does not describe that as a saved man losing eternal life. It says, “They went out from us, but they were not of us” ~1 John 2:19.

So no, a truly born again believer does not pass back into death. Christ gives eternal life, not temporary life. He saves His sheep, keeps His sheep, and loses none of His sheep.

“This is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing” ~John 6:39.

gal 6:7-8

7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

corruption eternal damnation even if you have faith alone or were justified

thks

 

[faithhopecharity]

No, not if the person has truly passed from death unto life.

Jesus did not leave that open. He said, “He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life” ~John 5:24.

That is not temporary life. That is not probationary life. That is everlasting life. If a man who has everlasting life can pass back into spiritual death and condemnation, then Christ’s words “shall not come into condemnation” are not true. I am not willing to say that.

Jesus also said, “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand” ~John 10:27-28.

So the question is not whether a religious professor can fall away. Scripture says false professors do fall away. The question is whether one of Christ’s sheep, to whom He gives eternal life, can perish after Jesus said they shall never perish. The answer is no.

John says the same thing: “We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren” ~1 John 3:14. He does not say we passed from death to life and may later pass back into death. He says this passing from death unto life is something believers can know.

If someone abandons Christ and remains in unbelief, Scripture does not describe that as a saved man losing eternal life. It says, “They went out from us, but they were not of us” ~1 John 2:19.

So no, a truly born again believer does not pass back into death. Christ gives eternal life, not temporary life. He saves His sheep, keeps His sheep, and loses none of His sheep.

“This is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing” ~John 6:39.

rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

those who walk (fulfill the deeds) the flesh are under condemnation and must repent and confess

1 Jn 1:6-7

6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

those who walk in darkness (sin and error) have no union with God in Christ and must repent and confess

Amen?

 

[faithhopecharity]

No, not if the person has truly passed from death unto life.

Jesus did not leave that open. He said, “He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life” ~John 5:24.

That is not temporary life. That is not probationary life. That is everlasting life. If a man who has everlasting life can pass back into spiritual death and condemnation, then Christ’s words “shall not come into condemnation” are not true. I am not willing to say that.

Jesus also said, “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand” ~John 10:27-28.

So the question is not whether a religious professor can fall away. Scripture says false professors do fall away. The question is whether one of Christ’s sheep, to whom He gives eternal life, can perish after Jesus said they shall never perish. The answer is no.

John says the same thing: “We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren” ~1 John 3:14. He does not say we passed from death to life and may later pass back into death. He says this passing from death unto life is something believers can know.

If someone abandons Christ and remains in unbelief, Scripture does not describe that as a saved man losing eternal life. It says, “They went out from us, but they were not of us” ~1 John 2:19.

So no, a truly born again believer does not pass back into death. Christ gives eternal life, not temporary life. He saves His sheep, keeps His sheep, and loses none of His sheep.

“This is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing” ~John 6:39.

you think a "saved born again" believer cannot sin and lose grace?

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness

speeking to "saved & born again" believers

thks

 

[faithhopecharity]

The problem is that “mortal sin” is not the way the Bible explains salvation. That is a category people bring to the Bible. It is not what the Bible plainly teaches.

Yes, sin is serious. Nobody is denying that. “The wages of sin is death” ~Romans 6:23. A real believer should never play games with sin. God chastens His children, and sometimes that chastening can be severe.

But Scripture does not teach that a truly born again believer keeps passing from life back into spiritual death every time he commits a certain kind of sin. Jesus said the believer “hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life” ~John 5:24.

That is the issue. If Jesus says the believer has everlasting life and shall not come into condemnation, I am not going to turn around and say he can lose that life and come back under condemnation.

1 John 5:16-17 speaks of “a sin unto death,” but John does not say that means a justified believer loses eternal life. You are reading that into the passage. The Bible does show God judging sin with physical death. Ananias and Sapphira died in Acts 5. Some in Corinth were weak, sick, and some had died because of their abuse of the Lord’s supper ~1 Corinthians 11:30.

But Paul says something important right after that: “But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world” ~1 Corinthians 11:32.

That is not a saved man losing salvation. That is God disciplining His own so they are not condemned with the world.

So yes, sin can bring judgment. Sin can ruin a life. Sin can expose a false professor. Sin can bring the Lord’s chastening. But no, Scripture does not teach that one of Christ’s sheep is spiritually unborn, unjustified, and thrown back into condemnation.

Jesus said, “I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish” ~John 10:28. I believe Him.

If a man lives in unrepentant wickedness, I would not comfort him with assurance. I would tell him to repent and examine himself. But I will not change the gospel into faith plus works to stay justified.

Christ saves His people from their sins. He does not save them so they can live in sin, and He does not keep them saved because their works are good enough.

“Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ” ~Philippians 1:6.

mortal (death) sin spiritual death is by biblical here is just one verse

1 John 5:16
If any man see his brother sin a sinwhich is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sinunto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

mortal sin biblical!

and venial sin too

1 John 5:17
All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death

venial sin biblical!

Amen?

 

[faithhopecharity]

The problem is that “mortal sin” is not the way the Bible explains salvation. That is a category people bring to the Bible. It is not what the Bible plainly teaches.

Yes, sin is serious. Nobody is denying that. “The wages of sin is death” ~Romans 6:23. A real believer should never play games with sin. God chastens His children, and sometimes that chastening can be severe.

But Scripture does not teach that a truly born again believer keeps passing from life back into spiritual death every time he commits a certain kind of sin. Jesus said the believer “hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life” ~John 5:24.

That is the issue. If Jesus says the believer has everlasting life and shall not come into condemnation, I am not going to turn around and say he can lose that life and come back under condemnation.

1 John 5:16-17 speaks of “a sin unto death,” but John does not say that means a justified believer loses eternal life. You are reading that into the passage. The Bible does show God judging sin with physical death. Ananias and Sapphira died in Acts 5. Some in Corinth were weak, sick, and some had died because of their abuse of the Lord’s supper ~1 Corinthians 11:30.

But Paul says something important right after that: “But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world” ~1 Corinthians 11:32.

That is not a saved man losing salvation. That is God disciplining His own so they are not condemned with the world.

So yes, sin can bring judgment. Sin can ruin a life. Sin can expose a false professor. Sin can bring the Lord’s chastening. But no, Scripture does not teach that one of Christ’s sheep is spiritually unborn, unjustified, and thrown back into condemnation.

Jesus said, “I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish” ~John 10:28. I believe Him.

If a man lives in unrepentant wickedness, I would not comfort him with assurance. I would tell him to repent and examine himself. But I will not change the gospel into faith plus works to stay justified.

Christ saves His people from their sins. He does not save them so they can live in sin, and He does not keep them saved because their works are good enough.

“Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ” ~Philippians 1:6.

were back to the proverbial question

what exactly is "eternal life"?

thks

 

[faithhopecharity]

The problem is that “mortal sin” is not the way the Bible explains salvation. That is a category people bring to the Bible. It is not what the Bible plainly teaches.

Yes, sin is serious. Nobody is denying that. “The wages of sin is death” ~Romans 6:23. A real believer should never play games with sin. God chastens His children, and sometimes that chastening can be severe.

But Scripture does not teach that a truly born again believer keeps passing from life back into spiritual death every time he commits a certain kind of sin. Jesus said the believer “hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life” ~John 5:24.

That is the issue. If Jesus says the believer has everlasting life and shall not come into condemnation, I am not going to turn around and say he can lose that life and come back under condemnation.

1 John 5:16-17 speaks of “a sin unto death,” but John does not say that means a justified believer loses eternal life. You are reading that into the passage. The Bible does show God judging sin with physical death. Ananias and Sapphira died in Acts 5. Some in Corinth were weak, sick, and some had died because of their abuse of the Lord’s supper ~1 Corinthians 11:30.

But Paul says something important right after that: “But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world” ~1 Corinthians 11:32.

That is not a saved man losing salvation. That is God disciplining His own so they are not condemned with the world.

So yes, sin can bring judgment. Sin can ruin a life. Sin can expose a false professor. Sin can bring the Lord’s chastening. But no, Scripture does not teach that one of Christ’s sheep is spiritually unborn, unjustified, and thrown back into condemnation.

Jesus said, “I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish” ~John 10:28. I believe Him.

If a man lives in unrepentant wickedness, I would not comfort him with assurance. I would tell him to repent and examine himself. But I will not change the gospel into faith plus works to stay justified.

Christ saves His people from their sins. He does not save them so they can live in sin, and He does not keep them saved because their works are good enough.

“Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ” ~Philippians 1:6.

you have a flawed understanding of the lifelong process of salvation

yes a justified born again believer can sin and be eternally lost, damned

grace can be lost by deadly sin

Eph 5:2-6
gal 5:1-4
gal 5:19-21
gal 6:7-8
1 cor 6:9-10 & 15-20
2 cor 4:7
1 tim 5:12
rev 21:8
rev 21:27
rom 8:1
can lose grace gal 5:4
can have grace in vain 1 cor 15:10
treasure in earthen vessels 2 cor 4:7
1 Jn 3:15 no life (grace)

We have union by grace not eternal salvation!

Jn 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

thks

 

[Gray_Joy]

How do you reconcile this with Jesus saying even people who perform miracles in his name, he never knew?

That's Matthew 7.
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Jesus does not say those ones were given his power and authority to do those things.
Rather,those ones are asking him to acknowledge the claim they did.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

How do you reconcile this with Jesus saying even people who perform miracles in his name, he never knew?

He did not say Jesus did the miracles. He said they used his name

he never knew them

how do you reconcile this with them being saved.. then lost?

 

[Wrangler]

23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

^THIS verse undermines all those who oppose Christian Nationalism for they are workers of lawlessness.