Both Pretribbers and Preterists are clearly wrong that great tribulation begins with the DOTL.

[rebuilder 454]

You continue, and continue, and continue, to make claims without supporting scripture "Why"?

 

[David in NJ]

Stop the nonsense.
Try another approach.
Rev 7
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
Revelation 13
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Rev 20
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

According to the bible, the "going trough the trib" belief is not biblical.

And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me,
These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

This is POST-TRIB = they died during The Great Tribulation

 

[Truth7t7]

That dynamic, as you are spinning it, OMITS what the AC does.
It says EVERY MAN WOMAN AND CHILD WORSHIP HIM.
You are spinning it, most likely to protect some corner you painted yourself into.

You have not proven the AC is a non factor and never will.

The (Two Witnesses) will rule the earth through plagues, it's going to be a complete remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharoah of Egypt

It appears as if you want to completely disregard the scripture below "Why"?

Doesn't look like (The Beast) is ruling the earth to me, as seen in the scripture below

(All Plagues, As Often As They Will) WOW!!!!

Revelation 11:6KJV
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

Revelation 16:1-11KJV
1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.
5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.
8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.
9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

 

[David in NJ]

The (Two Witnesses) will rule the earth through plagues, it's going to be a complete remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharoah of Egypt

It appears as if you want to completely disregard the scripture below "Why"?

Doesn't look like (The Beast) is ruling the earth to me, as seen in the scripture below

(All Plagues, As Often As They Will) WOW!!!!

Revelation 11:6KJV
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

Revelation 16:1-11KJV
1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.
5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.
8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.
9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

Satan and the soon coming Beast is CLEARLY ruling on earth = Revelation chapters 1 thru 13

The Two Witnesses are on earth to confront the Beast, the MoB and the Jerusalem led world united against GOD.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Scripture?

He thinks his own words are scripture. That's his problem. He never has exegeted even one verse of scripture. He thinks he doesn't need to do that because he thinks his own words are equivalent to scripture. It's unbelievable.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Stop the nonsense.
Try another approach.
Rev 7
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
Revelation 13
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Rev 20
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

According to the bible, the "going trough the trib" belief is not biblical.

So, you actually quoted some scripture for once. But, you didn't exegete a single verse of it. What exactly do you think those scriptures are saying? Show us how you interpret them and why.

 

[PinSeeker]

Yes, you are. You said "the effect of what you Arminians say is to diminish God's glory,". That is absolutely false and I explained why by showing how I see it.

Right, so I have never said... and will never say... that you believe this or that if you haven't explicitly said you believe that thing. You, on the other hand... <chuckles> But yes, I know and I am absolutely sure that you don't take away from or diminish God's glory, that never would you do such a thing, and that you would absolutely agree that all glory belongs to Him alone ~ Sola Gloria, in Reformation terms :) ~ that only He is worthy of that glory, and man's chief end is to glorify God (and enjoy Him forever). So I'm not "mis-respresenting" your beliefs, and to think I am is absolutely not the case. I'm not even saying you "how you see that" is wrong... quite the opposite. But by stating some of your beliefs... which you did, verbatim... things like:

• "belief comes before faith" (which is absolutely contrary to the aforementioned Scriptures from Ezekiel, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Romans, Ephesians, and 1 Peter, among others)
• "synergism is... the combination of God working in us and us submitting to Him that keeps our salvation secure. Our part is to work our our own salvation with fear and trumbling. We have to be conscious of not grieving or quenching the Holy Spirit. That is our responsibility.
• If we submit to God, He will work in us "both to will and to do for His good pleasure" (which is absolutely contrary to Philippians 2:12-13)

...these beliefs, unintentional as it is do the following:

• make God's will out to be submissive, subservient, and/or secondary to man's (which is absolutely contrary to Romans 9)
• divide the glory for man's salvation between God and man so that God must share His glory with man (which is absolutely contrary to Isaiah 42).

Again, I know that you don't believe those things, but the effect of what you do believe, however unintended, is at least these two things. And that's just basic logic. Unavoidable inferences from what you have said. If you disagree, that is the effect, then fine, but you cannot call it a "strawman argument," because I'm not really making any statement whatsoever about what you believe except what you yourself have said... again, verbatim... you believe.

The rest of your post is stupid, and you're obviously just mad. Which is a very well-established pattern for you. <smile>

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Right, so I have never said... and will never say... that you believe this or that if you haven't explicitly said you believe that thing. You, on the other hand... <chuckles> But yes, I know and I am absolutely sure that you don't take away from or diminish God's glory, that never would you do such a thing, and that you would absolutely agree that all glory belongs to Him alone ~ Sola Gloria, in Reformation terms :) ~ that only He is worthy of that glory, and man's chief end is to glorify God (and enjoy Him forever). So I'm not "mis-respresenting" your beliefs, and to think I am is absolutely not the case. I'm not even saying you "how you see that" is wrong... quite the opposite. But by stating some of your beliefs... which you did, verbatim... things like:

• "belief comes before faith" (which is absolutely contrary to the aforementioned Scriptures from Ezekiel, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Romans, Ephesians, and 1 Peter, among others)
• "synergism is... the combination of God working in us and us submitting to Him that keeps our salvation secure. Our part is to work our our own salvation with fear and trumbling. We have to be conscious of not grieving or quenching the Holy Spirit. That is our responsibility.
• If we submit to God, He will work in us "both to will and to do for His good pleasure" (which is absolutely contrary to Philippians 2:12-13)

...these beliefs, unintentional as it is do the following:

• make God's will out to be submissive, subservient, and/or secondary to man's (which is absolutely contrary to Romans 9)
• divide the glory for man's salvation between God and man so that God must share His glory with man (which is absolutely contrary to Isaiah 42).

Again, I know that you don't believe those things, but the effect of what you do believe, however unintended, is at least these two things. And that's just basic logic. Unavoidable inferences from what you have said. If you disagree, that is the effect, then fine, but you cannot call it a "strawman argument," because I'm not really making any statement whatsoever about what you believe except what you yourself have said... again, verbatim... you believe.

The rest of your post is stupid, and you're obviously just mad. Which is a very well-established pattern for you. <smile>

Wipe that stupid smile off your stupid face. Your post is as stupid as anything that anyone could ever imagine. As are the rest of your stupid posts and your stupid belief that God purposely creates people with no ability and no opportunity to have eternal life that are guaranteed to spend eternity in eternal torment. Now, THAT is stupid.

Nothing can be more stupid than to say God doesn't want all people to repent and to be saved, which stupidly contradicts scripture (Ezekiel 18:30-32, Ezekiel 33:11, Isaiah 55:6-7, Acts 17:30-31, 2 Peter 3:9, Mark 2:16-17, 1 Timothy 2:3-6, 1 Timothy 4:10, Titus 2:11, etc.). You can't get any more stupid than believing that God did not send His Son to die for the sins of literally all people in the whole world so that whoever in the whole world who believes in Him will not perish but have everlasting life (John 3:16, 1 John 2:1-2, 1 Timothy 2:5-6).

 

[rebuilder 454]

The (Two Witnesses) will rule the earth through plagues, it's going to be a complete remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharoah of Egypt

It appears as if you want to completely disregard the scripture below "Why"?

Doesn't look like (The Beast) is ruling the earth to me, as seen in the scripture below

(All Plagues, As Often As They Will) WOW!!!!

Revelation 11:6KJV
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

Revelation 16:1-11KJV
1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.
5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.
8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.
9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

I never denied anything about the 2 witnesses.


Show me where i denied anything about them.
It says the AC rules for 42 months

You are showcasing the wrath part of the 7 yr trib, then pretending the AC did nothing the bible says he did.

We agree that when the wrath part starts even the AC will run and hide.

I never insinuated any of what you are claiming

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I never denied anything about the 2 witnesses.


Show me where i denied anything about them.
It says the AC rules for 42 months

You are showcasing the wrath part of the 7 yr trib, then pretending the AC did nothing the bible says he did.

We agree that when the wrath part starts even the AC will run and hide.

I never insinuated any of what you are claiming

It doesn't feel good to have your views misrepresented, does it? Now, you know how many of us feel when you misrepresent our views.

 

[rebuilder 454]

The (Two Witnesses) will rule the earth through plagues, it's going to be a complete remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharoah of Egypt

It appears as if you want to completely disregard the scripture below "Why"?

Doesn't look like (The Beast) is ruling the earth to me, as seen in the scripture below

(All Plagues, As Often As They Will) WOW!!!!

Revelation 11:6KJV
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

Revelation 16:1-11KJV
1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.
5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.
8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.
9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

BTW, The beast. ( the AC) kills them.
You left that out.
You also left out that the wrath part of the trib is after they are caught up to heaven.

Rev 11
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

 

[Truth7t7]

Stop the nonsense.
Try another approach.
Rev 7
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
Revelation 13
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Rev 20
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

According to the bible, the "going trough the trib" belief is not biblical.

The scripture you provided shows absolutely "Nothing" to support a pre-trib rapture

The church will be present on earth to be literal eyewitnesses of the Lord's second coming, read it again and again

Luke 21:25-28KJV
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

 

[Truth7t7]

BTW, The beast. ( the AC) kills them.
You left that out.
You also left out that the wrath part of the trib is after they are caught up to heaven.

(The Same Hour) the (Two Witnesses) are raised to heaven, the great earthquake takes place (The Second Woe Is Past) and (The Third Woe Comes Quickly) in the end of this world as the 7th Trump sounds (The End)

Revelation 11:18 takes place at this (Third Woe) 7th Trump, The Final Judgement Takes Place (The End)

Revelation 11:12-18KJV
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Revelation 20:11-15KJV
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[Truth7t7]

I never denied anything about the 2 witnesses.


Show me where i denied anything about them.
It says the AC rules for 42 months

You are showcasing the wrath part of the 7 yr trib, then pretending the AC did nothing the bible says he did.

We agree that when the wrath part starts even the AC will run and hide.

I never insinuated any of what you are claiming

There will be a future 42 month tribulation not 7 years as you claim

The (Two Witnesses) and (The Beast) will be on this earth for the very same time frame, it will be a 42 month remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt, and the (Two Witnesses) will be bringing all plagues upon (The Beast) and his kingdom so often as they will

There isn't any time for (The Beast) beyond the (Two Witnesses) being raised to heaven, it will be a matter of minutes before the 7th Trump sounds (The End) as clearly shown above in post #833

 

[Truth7t7]

Satan and the soon coming Beast is CLEARLY ruling on earth = Revelation chapters 1 thru 13

The Two Witnesses are on earth to confront the Beast, the MoB and the Jerusalem led world united against GOD.

Dave I believe that scripture clearly teaches that (The Beast) will be made a world spectacle when (The False Prophet) calls fire down from heaven before him

This deception in false miracles will be used in deceiving the world into receiving the mark and worshipping the image, it's not going to be a world secret, it will be front page news on every station, "Don't Be Deceived"!

Revelation 13:13-14KJV
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

 

[rebuilder 454]

The scripture you provided shows absolutely "Nothing" to support a pre-trib rapture

The church will be present on earth to be literal eyewitnesses of the Lord's second coming, read it again and again

Luke 21:25-28KJV
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

QUOTE
"The scripture you provided shows absolutely "Nothing" to support a pre-trib rapture"
Lol
I can only show you what God's word says.
Read and know from SCRIPTURE none of you "go through the trib"
All of you either take the mark or die.
God gave you a brain.
Read what it says.

Hello? ???
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
So you plan on getting it?
Or, are you counting on God's word being incorrect that to refuse it is to die.?
2 choices.

QUOTE
""28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.""

Ok. What things? These things? BEGIN to happen????
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring

We already see them.
So TY for yet more verses pointing to a pretrib rapture

 

[rebuilder 454]

There will be a future 42 month tribulation not 7 years as you claim

The (Two Witnesses) and (The Beast) will be on this earth for the very same time frame, it will be a 42 month remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt, and the (Two Witnesses) will be bringing all plagues upon (The Beast) and his kingdom so often as they will

There isn't any time for (The Beast) beyond the (Two Witnesses) being raised to heaven, it will be a matter of minutes before the 7th Trump sounds (The End) as clearly shown above in post #833

Nope.
In fact, IN THE MIDDLE OF THE WEEK is when the AC descecrates the temple.
(7 yr trib like God's word says).
...around Daniel ch 7

 

[rebuilder 454]

There will be a future 42 month tribulation not 7 years as you claim

The (Two Witnesses) and (The Beast) will be on this earth for the very same time frame, it will be a 42 month remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt, and the (Two Witnesses) will be bringing all plagues upon (The Beast) and his kingdom so often as they will

There isn't any time for (The Beast) beyond the (Two Witnesses) being raised to heaven, it will be a matter of minutes before the 7th Trump sounds (The End) as clearly shown above in post #833

The beast kills them.
So factor more things in.
Then draw conclusions.

 

[rebuilder 454]

The scripture you provided shows absolutely "Nothing" to support a pre-trib rapture

The church will be present on earth to be literal eyewitnesses of the Lord's second coming, read it again and again

Luke 21:25-28KJV
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

QUOTE
"The scripture you provided shows absolutely "Nothing" to support a pre-trib rapture"

You mean this passage in posted?
Revelation 13
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

Maybe God made a misprint?
Maybe your doctrine got owned?
Oh wait.......
Maybe the saints overcame the AC?
YES THEY DO. THOSE LEFT BEHIND OVERCOME VIA MARTYRDOM.

Revelation 12:11​

11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death​

So none of you "go through it"​

It is 100% made up.​

​

God's word in 100 % agreement with the pretrib rapture.​

 

[rebuilder 454]

The (Two Witnesses) will rule the earth through plagues, it's going to be a complete remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharoah of Egypt

It appears as if you want to completely disregard the scripture below "Why"?

Doesn't look like (The Beast) is ruling the earth to me, as seen in the scripture below

(All Plagues, As Often As They Will) WOW!!!!

Revelation 11:6KJV
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

Revelation 16:1-11KJV
1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.
5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.
8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.
9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

QUOTE
"Doesn't look like (The Beast) is ruling the earth to me, as seen in the scripture below"

That is because you omit rev 12 and 13.