Who is Paul discussing in 2 Thessalonians 2?

[ewq1938]

Does the old man get destroyed when someone accepts Christ and the day star arises in their hearts?

Not at the second coming which is when the one man of sin is destroyed by Jesus.

2 Peter 1:19
have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

2 Thessalonians 2 is about the day of Christ, "the day dawning and the day star arising in our hearts". If it was about the day of the Lord the bible would have said - That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Lord is at hand.

Am I seeing that right?

 

[William Barton]

"Antichrist" has several other epithets:
o. man of lawlessness
o. son of perdition
o. beast
o. little horn
o. deceiver
o. false Christ
o. vile/despicable person
o. worthless shepherd

 

[CTK]

"Antichrist" has several other epithets:
o. man of lawlessness
o. son of perdition
o. beast
o. little horn
o. deceiver
o. false Christ
o. vile/despicable person
o. worthless shepherd

William, who is he?
When does he arrive?
Where does he come from?
Where does God reveal to us everything about him?

 

[IndianaRob]

What they did was isolate people and with a laptop looking for MAC addresses the people approached the laptop one by one...and the people with the Jab registered a MAC address.
In another test they even went to cemeteries and fresh graves were emitting a MAC address.

My best answer is when they turn it on.
I believe the nano-particles are just one element of the beast system.
The Lucerase tattoo...or what it becomes... could be part of activating the nano-particles. These answers are currently unknown.

I would imagine pretty soon we will all be subjected to the tokenized programmable CBDC as there are several scenarios that may get us there.

So in your view turning on the tech is the mark? I’m trying to pin down what you think the MOB is.

 

[Earburner]

So Jesus is destroyed by that fire?

Are you being "willingly ignorant"?
Jesus Himself is that Eternal flaming and consuming fire.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Different context.

You don't have a whole bunch of people going into the rebuilt temple and claiming to b god.

You completely missed the point. I'm not saying 2 Timothy 3:16-17 has the same context as 2 Thessalonians. I'm showing that a reference to "the man of God" does not refer to an individual man, so you should consider that the reference to "the man of sin" does not have to refer to an individual man, either.

 

[William Barton]

William, who is he?
When does he arrive?
Where does he come from?
Where does God reveal to us everything about him?

IMO:
o. "Anti" in "Anti-Christ" = "false" i.e. "false Christ."
o. He is a charismatic person, probably Middle-Eastern
o. He will achieve a peace treaty in the Middle East (amazing!).
o. He will oversee construction of the Jewish temple.
o. He will then take his seat in the temple proclaiming to be God.
o. These things will make his appearance obvious.
o. He will bring forces to the the plain of Armageddon.
o. He will thrown into the lake of fire, earth's interior.
o. It is extremely hot there, 5000 Centigrade at the core.
o. Jesus died on an Israeli blood moon, and will return on one.
o. I see an internet article by Thomas Ice (Compass International) entitled "The Eight Stages of Armageddon."

 

[PeterAndroz]

The antichrist will be a man of peace..wink, wink...when he first comes on the scene.
He will make or enhance a current "peace" plan or process for the middle east and Israel...I think people will love the guy.

Rev 6: 2 And I looked, and behold, a white horse! And its rider had a bow, and a crown was given to him, and he came out conquering, and to conquer.

He conquerers with a bow....notice no arrows.

Yes, he will have many fooled and before long he will be the one revealed to the whole world inc Fiji, New Guinea etc then comes the MOTB

 

[CrowCross]

So in your view turning on the tech is the mark? I’m trying to pin down what you think the MOB is.

No. It's simply part of the system.
I think the tech will be turned on prior to the mark.

As to what the mark is....I don't know, but, there appears to be some hints that I've pointed out.

 

[CrowCross]

You completely missed the point. I'm not saying 2 Timothy 3:16-17 has the same context as 2 Thessalonians. I'm showing that a reference to "the man of God" does not refer to an individual man, so you should consider that the reference to "the man of sin" does not have to refer to an individual man, either.

The verbage around 2 Thes 3:7 suggest he is a man. If you don't agree, then fine.

 

[CrowCross]

Yes, he will have many fooled and before long he will be the one revealed to the whole world inc Fiji, New Guinea etc then comes the MOTB

Do you think Rev is linear? I've always thought the MOTB came in the middle of the trib...but lately I've been wondering if it doesn't come closer to the beginning.

I have to look into it.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The verbage around 2 Thes 3:7 suggest he is a man. If you don't agree, then fine.

I don't agree. And we can agree to disagree. But, just remember that any future physical temple cannot be the temple of God. In scripture, the temple of God is always a temple that God ordains and dwells in. That includes the spiritual temple of God, which is the church (Ephesians 2:19-22).

 

[CrowCross]

I don't agree. And we can agree to disagree. But, just remember that any future physical temple cannot be the temple of God. In scripture, the temple of God is always a temple that God ordains and dwells in. That includes the spiritual temple of God, which is the church (Ephesians 2:19-22).

The temple of God is just a name...what's it's called....the rebuilt temple will not save anyone. The sacrifices will mean nothing concerning salvation...as Jesus was the final sacrifice.
But, the bible does present it as a fact.
There are currently plans to rebuild it...they have the priest clothing, furniture, cornerstone etc...even a red heifer. Just waiting for the green light.

 

[ewq1938]

Are you being "willingly ignorant"?
Jesus Himself is that Eternal flaming and consuming fire.

Jesus is not the fire he comes in. It's specifically flashes of lightning and is not something used by him as a weapon. The only weapon ever described that kills people is a symbolic sword from his mouth.

He comes so fast and brightly the description of lightning is used. He doesn't send down lightning bolts or anything. He comes in flaming fire not casts out flaming fire. The same exact thing is here:

Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

It's about the speed because lightning was the fastest thing man knew of in those days. This essentially is "light speed" and is what this verse is talking about:

2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Barnes:

In flaming fire - This is a circumstance which is not noticed in the account of his appearing in the parallel place in 1Th_4:16. The object of the apostle here seems to be to represent him as coming amidst vivid flashes of lightning. He is commonly described as coming in clouds, and to that common description there is here added the image of incessant lightnings, as if the whole heavens were illuminated with a continued blaze.

It means a flash of lightning.

2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

G4442
????
pur
poor
A primary word; “fire” (literally or figuratively, specifically lightning): - fiery, fire.
Total KJV occurrences: 74


Luke spoke of the same lightning when Christ would be revealed from heaven:"

Luk 17:24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.



G796
?????????
astrape?
as-trap-ay'
From G797; lightning; by analogy glare: - lightning, bright shining.
Total KJV occurrences: 9

G797
??????????
astrapto?
as-trap'-to
Probably from G792; to flash as lightning: - lighten, shine.
Total KJV occurrences: 2


Paul was speaking of lightning not fire like when something is burning.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The temple of God is just a name...what's it's called....the rebuilt temple will not save anyone.

This is an unacceptable response and it borders on being blasphemous. Any time the temple of God is mentioned in scripture it is a reference to God's temple that He ordained and dwells in whether it was the physical temples of long ago or the spiritual temple (the church) that we're in now. The Bible NEVER refers to God's temple or the temple of God that isn't actually God's temple in the sense of it being a temple He ordained and dwells in.

The sacrifices will mean nothing concerning salvation...as Jesus was the final sacrifice.
But, the bible does present it as a fact.
There are currently plans to rebuild it...they have the priest clothing, furniture, cornerstone etc...even a red heifer. Just waiting for the green light.

Such a temple is meaningless and would never be called God's temple or the temple of God in scripture.

 

[CTK]

IMO:
o. "Anti" in "Anti-Christ" = "false" i.e. "false Christ."
o. He is a charismatic person, probably Middle-Eastern
o. He will achieve a peace treaty in the Middle East (amazing!).
o. He will oversee construction of the Jewish temple.
o. He will then take his seat in the temple proclaiming to be God.
o. These things will make his appearance obvious.
o. He will bring forces to the the plain of Armageddon.
o. He will thrown into the lake of fire, earth's interior.
o. It is extremely hot there, 5000 Centigrade at the core.
o. Jesus died on an Israeli blood moon, and will return on one.
o. I see an internet article by Thomas Ice (Compass International) entitled "The Eight Stages of Armageddon."

William, thank you for your response, but with all due respect, I would like to ask you again to answer those questions. Absolutely not wanting to be difficult, but God has indeed give us the answers to these questions and so much more... and he is not an end time actor.

William, who is he?
When does he arrive?
Where does he come from?
Where does God reveal to us everything about him?

 

[CrowCross]

This is an unacceptable response and it borders on being blasphemous. Any time the temple of God is mentioned in scripture it is a reference to God's temple that He ordained and dwells in whether it was the physical temples of long ago or the spiritual temple (the church) that we're in now. The Bible NEVER refers to God's temple or the temple of God that isn't actually God's temple in the sense of it being a temple He ordained and dwells in.

Well, I'm thinking you should understand the truth.
The future temple is a way the kabbalist and other Jewish sects will attempt to bring about the messiah....instead they get the antichrist believing he is the messiah.

Such a temple is meaningless and would never be called God's temple or the temple of God in scripture.

Yes, other than fitting prophecy...the temple will be meaningless.

 

[CrowCross]

I don't agree. And we can agree to disagree. But, just remember that any future physical temple cannot be the temple of God. In scripture, the temple of God is always a temple that God ordains and dwells in. That includes the spiritual temple of God, which is the church (Ephesians 2:19-22).

Why would God dwell in this temple? It's built for the antichrist.

 

[Earburner]

Jesus is not the fire he comes in. It's specifically flashes of lightning and is not something used by him as a weapon. The only weapon ever described that kills people is a symbolic sword from his mouth.

He comes so fast and brightly the description of lightning is used. He doesn't send down lightning bolts or anything. He comes in flaming fire not casts out flaming fire. The same exact thing is here:

Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

It's about the speed because lightning was the fastest thing man knew of in those days. This essentially is "light speed" and is what this verse is talking about:

2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Barnes:

In flaming fire - This is a circumstance which is not noticed in the account of his appearing in the parallel place in 1Th_4:16. The object of the apostle here seems to be to represent him as coming amidst vivid flashes of lightning. He is commonly described as coming in clouds, and to that common description there is here added the image of incessant lightnings, as if the whole heavens were illuminated with a continued blaze.

It means a flash of lightning.

2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

G4442
????
pur
poor
A primary word; “fire” (literally or figuratively, specifically lightning): - fiery, fire.
Total KJV occurrences: 74


Luke spoke of the same lightning when Christ would be revealed from heaven:"

Luk 17:24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.



G796
?????????
astrape?
as-trap-ay'
From G797; lightning; by analogy glare: - lightning, bright shining.
Total KJV occurrences: 9

G797
??????????
astrapto?
as-trap'-to
Probably from G792; to flash as lightning: - lighten, shine.
Total KJV occurrences: 2


Paul was speaking of lightning not fire like when something is burning.

So then, in your opinion, Paul is talking about a different return of Jesus than what Peter is saying. I strongly disagree.

2 Peter 3
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall MELT with fervent heat?

It is apparent that 2 Peter 3:10-12 has everything to do with the OLD heavens, the OLD earth and everything in it, however not many comprehend by the Holy Spirit what verse 13 is actually describing.
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for NEW heavens and a NEW earth, WHEREIN DWELLETH [God's] righteousness.

We find the answer in
2 Cor. 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in [through] the face of Jesus Christ.
7 But we HAVE this TREASURE [of God Himself] [with] in earthen vessels [our mortal bodies], that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

Now, can you tell us what or who it is that 2 Peter 3:13 describes, and what it means to be in the body of Christ?
Here is a clue:
John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions [G3438]: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place [of placement] for you.
Did you know that all we who are Born again of God's Holy Spirit ARE THE mansions that Jesus is talking about?
Strong's Number - G3438
Greek: μονή
Transliteration: monē
Pronunciation: mon-ay'
Definition: From G3306; a staying that is residence (the act or the place): - abode mansion.
KJV Usage: mansion (1x), abode (1x).
Occurs: 2
In verses: 2

Q. Since Jesus is not talking about literal buildings, like what man builds, who is God the Father's House, the place of HIS DWELLING?
A. Jesus Himself.

(1 Cor. 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.)
Now, please compare the word mansion [G3438] with the word abode [G3438] in John 14:23.
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and WE will come unto him, and make OUR abode with him.

Did you notice that both the words "mansion" and "abode" are the SAME Greek word, and that word is not used anywhere else in the KJV-NT?

 

[PeterAndroz]

This is an unacceptable response and it borders on being blasphemous. Any time the temple of God is mentioned in scripture it is a reference to God's temple that He ordained and dwells in whether it was the physical temples of long ago or the spiritual temple (the church) that we're in now. The Bible NEVER refers to God's temple or the temple of God that isn't actually God's temple in the sense of it being a temple He ordained and dwells in.


Such a temple is meaningless and would never be called God's temple or the temple of God in script

So then, in your opinion, Paul is talking about a different return of Jesus than what Peter is saying.
2 Peter 3
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall MELT with fervent heat?

It is apparent that verses 10-12 have everything to do with the OLD heavens, the OLD earth and everything in it, however not many comprehend by the Holy Spirit what verse 13 is actually describing.
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for NEW heavens and a NEW earth, WHEREIN DWELLETH [God's] righteousness.

We find the answer in
2 Cor. 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in [through] the face of Jesus Christ.

7 But we HAVE this TREASURE [of God Himself] [with] in earthen vessels [our mortal bodies], that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

Now, can you tell us what or who it is that verse 13 describes, and what it means to be in the body of Christ?
Here is a clue:
John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place [of placement] for you.
Q. Since Jesus is not talking about literal buildings, like what man builds, who is God the Father's House, the place of His DWELLING?

:::So then, in your opinion, Paul is talking about a different return of Jesus than what Peter is saying."""
..
Paul - 1 Thess 4:16-7 "caught up" into the clouds instantly in the twinkle of an eye - 1 Cor 15:52
..
Peter etc - Matt 24:31 a gathering process that does not state the process happens instantaneously