What is the purpose of Grace?

[Lizbeth]

Presumptuous sins, that David spoke of.

It's not presumptuous if you have the honesty and humility to realize the difference between what God has placed within you and what you are actually walking in. He has given us all things and we are complete in Him but the question is whether or not we are yet living up to all that He has given us.

 

[amigo de christo]

No. Insulting my intelligence does not make your doctrine biblical. Show the Scripture that teaches your system. That is the issue you keep avoiding.

You quote, “For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required” (Luke 12:48 KJV). Read the context. Jesus is speaking about servants being held accountable for what their master entrusted to them. The servant who “knew his lord's will” received greater punishment because he knowingly disobeyed (Luke 12:47-48). That passage teaches greater accountability according to what a person has been given and knows.

It does not say that God places believers into spiritual levels and then gives them progressively harder tests as they pass each level. You are inserting that system into the text.

And your statement about my “tiny brain” only exposes the weakness of your argument. Scripture does not tell us to accept teachings because God's ways are beyond our understanding. It tells us to test what is being taught by what God has actually revealed.

Paul said, “Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.” (1 Thessalonians 5:21)

Isaiah said, “To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.” (Isaiah 8:20)

You are the one making the claim. The burden is on you to produce the Scripture.

If this system is biblical, then give the passage that teaches believers pass one spiritual level, are promoted to another, and are then subjected to increasingly difficult tests.

Not an inference. Not your spiritual philosophy. Not “there is a lot you are not seeing.”

Book, chapter, and verse.

Until you can provide that, you are teaching something Scripture does not teach and then rebuking others for refusing to believe it. That is backwards.

And since you are teaching others, James gives you a warning worth taking seriously:

“My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.” (James 3:1)

Yes, “unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required.” You would do well to apply that warning to yourself before using it to defend a doctrine you still have not demonstrated from Scripture.

notice its always limit God or etc from this people .
But i noticed something , WHERE be the scripture to support that mans mindset .
THAT my friend is why HE DO NOT bring it but rather brings , oh yalls little minds cannot grasp .
Well what , by grace , my mind does g rasp is , That man is obviously in love with another gospel
which cannot save one soul but has rather made the path to God very inclusive and very broad indeed .
The burden is upon epi , but the only scrips you will see from him
is in the book of epi and the gospel of what epi cliams is truth . accusations upon accusations
and yet NO scrips by which to back his so called HIGHER SPIRITUAL learning .
Which upon q uick examination to his higher spirtual learning ,
One can easily see IT CONTRADICTS even the very Words of Christ . THE JESUS who said YE MUST BLEIEVE ON HIM
And epi calles inclusvism as higher learning and spiritual wisdom . ITS A LIE .
One that has made void the dire need to BELIEVE ON JESUS and rather mauls those who DO REMIND
us about the dire need FOR TO BELIEVE ON CHRIST JESUS .
Upon simple examination had , YOU GO TO and behold what paul and them other apostels
went about preaching . YOU GONNA SEE they all preached THE DIRE absolute NEED to believe on JESUS .
Not epi . he o verlooks this and rather mocks those who warn and remind about this Dire need to BELEIVE .
So much for his higher learning , its of men and of the world .

 

[amigo de christo]

It's not presumptuous if you have the honesty and humility to realize the difference between what God has placed within you and what you are actually walking in. He has given us all things and we are complete in Him but the question is whether or not we are yet living up to all that He has given us.

Onward in the glorious LORD . The hour is very late dear sister . As in Very .
To the trenches and let us contend for and defend the one true faith delivered many many years ago from the first men
who had sat under THE CHRIST of GOD and had learned from him .

 

[Episkopos]

Presumptuous sins, that David spoke of.

Where is the honesty and good-hearted attitude that receives the word with humility and willingness to learn and progress? I don't see any of that in the modern religious system and those who have been indoctrinated into a self-serving version of the gospel.

 

[MostlyConfused]

It's not presumptuous if you have the honesty and humility to realize the difference between what God has placed within you and what you are actually walking in. He has given us all things and we are complete in Him but the question is whether or not we are yet living up to all that He has given us.

You speak from both sides of your mouth in spectacular fashion. You think you were instantantaneously made a righteous woman for all time. What need then do you have to learn righteousness? How could the word possibly help you in instruction in righteousness? You don’t need it. You are rich. Even when you sin/do unrighteousness, God has made you righteous so by Jove you ARE righteous, even when you do unrighteously. And when an unbeliever does right toward his neighbor, he is unrighteousness.
And you have BOTH entered into His rest AND are seeking to enter into His rest. It’s like saying, good news, I’m pregnant, but also, I am seeking to get pregnant.
It’s so absurd I almost can’t do anything but sit and blink with a puzzled look on my face. As far as “deals to cheat death” go, it has to be the most inane one a woman ever did utter,

 

[Lizbeth]

You speak from both sides of your mouth in spectacular fashion. You think you were instantantaneously made a righteous woman for all time. What need then do you have to learn righteousness? How could the word possibly help you in instruction in righteousness? You don’t need it. You are rich. Even when you sin/do unrighteousness, God has made you righteous so by Jove you ARE righteous, even when you do unrighteously. And when an unbeliever does right toward his neighbor, he is unrighteousness.
And you have BOTH entered into His rest AND are seeking to enter into His rest. It’s like saying, good news, I’m pregnant, but also, I am seeking to get pregnant.
It’s so absurd I almost can’t do anything but sit and blink with a puzzled look on my face. As far as “deals to cheat death” go, it has to be the most inane one a woman ever did utter,

Well, it is as the bible says, the gospel is foolishness to some and the natural man can't perceive these things. Though they are not really illogical either if we consider the new man and Christ IN us, the hope of glory. But we are certainly not to abuse this grace and take it for granted by putting our spiritual feet up as it were, like the unprofitable servant in the parable of the talents. We do have a race to run, and take up our cross to follow/obey Christ.

Animals can do righteous things too, but neither are they saved. And God has said that man is like the beasts that perish. Having begun in the Spirit are we now going to finish by the flesh, our own righteousness? I think not sister. The flesh profits nothing so how can anyone's own righteousness save them, whether believer or unbeliever? It seems presumptuous to me to think so, or to deliberately seek to establish our own righteousness instead of submitting to the righteousness of Christ in us in face of the fact that we have been given so much.

 

[Lizbeth]

You speak from both sides of your mouth in spectacular fashion. You think you were instantantaneously made a righteous woman for all time. What need then do you have to learn righteousness? How could the word possibly help you in instruction in righteousness? You don’t need it. You are rich. Even when you sin/do unrighteousness, God has made you righteous so by Jove you ARE righteous, even when you do unrighteously. And when an unbeliever does right toward his neighbor, he is unrighteousness.
And you have BOTH entered into His rest AND are seeking to enter into His rest. It’s like saying, good news, I’m pregnant, but also, I am seeking to get pregnant.
It’s so absurd I almost can’t do anything but sit and blink with a puzzled look on my face. As far as “deals to cheat death” go, it has to be the most inane one a woman ever did utter,

If we do wrong we need to bring it to the cross and ask God's forgiveness for it. Thankfully we have an Advocate who ever lives to intercede for us. And I'm not someone who forgives herself easily, just so you know. If I inadvertently mess up in some way, I tend to beat myself up for a very long time afterwards. I grew up with a feeling that anything less than perfect meant you were out, a goner - rejected, worthless and shamed forever. But I believe there is a right middle ground between my tendency and presuming upon His grace. It is certainly not a license or cloak for deliberate sin....that would be abusing grace.

 

[MostlyConfused]

Having begun in the Spirit are we now going to finish by the flesh, our own righteousness?

You have made it unlawful to be lawful because of your lack of understanding.

 

[MostlyConfused]

Well, it is as the bible says, the gospel is foolishness to some and the natural man can't perceive these things. Though they are not really illogical either if we consider the new man and Christ IN us, the hope of glory. But we are certainly not to abuse this grace and take it for granted by putting our spiritual feet up as it were, like the unprofitable servant in the parable of the talents. We do have a race to run, and take up our cross to follow/obey Christ.

Animals can do righteous things too, but neither are they saved. And God has said that man is like the beasts that perish. Having begun in the Spirit are we now going to finish by the flesh, our own righteousness? I think not sister. The flesh profits nothing so how can anyone's own righteousness save them, whether believer or unbeliever? It seems presumptuous to me to think so, or to deliberately seek to establish our own righteousness instead of submitting to the righteousness of Christ in us in face of the fact that we have been given so much.

You have defined “the flesh” as doing what is right in Gods’ eyes. It is YOUR own flesh that fashions these twistings away from the light.

 

[Episkopos]

You have defined “the flesh” as doing what is right in Gods’ eyes. It is YOUR own flesh that fashions these twistings away from the light.

There's nothing really to say to people who consider themselves to be the chosen of God. Logic will not suffice. The bible will not suffice. Once a person has been lifted up in the outer man, there is no hearing of humility or the fear of the Lord. Let them be.

 

[Lizbeth]

You have made it unlawful to be lawful because of your lack of understanding.

As believers we are under the new covenant now:

Phl 3:9
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith

 

[Lizbeth]

You have defined “the flesh” as doing what is right in Gods’ eyes. It is YOUR own flesh that fashions these twistings away from the light.

Obeying the gospel is what is right in God's eyes......serving in the new way of the Spirit and faith......not the old way of the letter.

 

[Wrangler]

Yes, they are talking about two separate things. Jesus said, "thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things" (Matthew 25:21). That passage is talking about increased responsibility due to faithfulness. It doesn't say, "I gave you a little test and you passed it so now I will give you a more difficult test."

Semantics. They mean the same thing. Other than different words, how are you taking the meaning to be different?

 

[Wrangler]

Faithfulness can be shown through testing but Matthew 25:21 is not describing a system where God puts you through harder tests each time you pass. That is the difference.

Each time? Matthew 25:21 lays the foundation of progressive structure. This is true even if it identifies one test and 2 states or conditions: a little responsibility BEFORE passing the test and ‘more’ after.

There is no reason to suppose this cannot be repeated, more and more and more. In our education system we first pass 1st grade then get tested more in 2nd grade and on and on.

Again relying on Jesus as our model, he was tested in numerous ways during the 40 days in the desert. And he was tested in his last night in asking for the cup to be passed or taken from him. It was what he said (and did) after that revealed he passed the final test - as your will be done.

 

[ProDeo]

You have defined “the flesh” as doing what is right in Gods’ eyes. It is YOUR own flesh that fashions these twistings away from the light.

You have made it unlawful to be lawful because of your lack of understanding.

Those who need insults to make a point, have no point.

 

[MostlyConfused]

There's nothing really to say to people who consider themselves to be the chosen of God. Logic will not suffice. The bible will not suffice. Once a person has been lifted up in the outer man, there is no hearing of humility or the fear of the Lord. Let them be.

Okay.

 

[amigo de christo]

Well, it is as the bible says, the gospel is foolishness to some and the natural man can't perceive these things. Though they are not really illogical either if we consider the new man and Christ IN us, the hope of glory. But we are certainly not to abuse this grace and take it for granted by putting our spiritual feet up as it were, like the unprofitable servant in the parable of the talents. We do have a race to run, and take up our cross to follow/obey Christ.

Animals can do righteous things too, but neither are they saved. And God has said that man is like the beasts that perish. Having begun in the Spirit are we now going to finish by the flesh, our own righteousness? I think not sister. The flesh profits nothing so how can anyone's own righteousness save them, whether believer or unbeliever? It seems presumptuous to me to think so, or to deliberately seek to establish our own righteousness instead of submitting to the righteousness of Christ in us in face of the fact that we have been given so much.

dear sister its been years now . but i just remembered real clearly that in time that was HOW
they took petes site ov er .
They keep accusing you sister and as usual and even back then they largely ignored me .
Its that same spirit sister . These inclusiviains are deadly dangerous .
Do not buy a word one outta they lips .
WE do not owe an apologly for pointing to the words and reminders Of CHRIST .
In fact anything that contradicts the him , the basis gospel , OH IT MUST be exposed .
They are working together.
And do not marvel that they can AT FIRST seem to be slightly opposed one to the other.
Its all a ploy and a plot . This was done on petes sight .
Long ago . I think he too lived in florida . not that , that ma tters . But i am whiffing
the same spirit sister .

 

[Marvelloustime]

notice its always limit God or etc from this people .
But i noticed something , WHERE be the scripture to support that mans mindset .
THAT my friend is why HE DO NOT bring it but rather brings , oh yalls little minds cannot grasp .
Well what , by grace , my mind does g rasp is , That man is obviously in love with another gospel
which cannot save one soul but has rather made the path to God very inclusive and very broad indeed .
The burden is upon epi , but the only scrips you will see from him
is in the book of epi and the gospel of what epi cliams is truth . accusations upon accusations
and yet NO scrips by which to back his so called HIGHER SPIRITUAL learning .
Which upon q uick examination to his higher spirtual learning ,
One can easily see IT CONTRADICTS even the very Words of Christ . THE JESUS who said YE MUST BLEIEVE ON HIM
And epi calles inclusvism as higher learning and spiritual wisdom . ITS A LIE .
One that has made void the dire need to BELIEVE ON JESUS and rather mauls those who DO REMIND
us about the dire need FOR TO BELIEVE ON CHRIST JESUS .
Upon simple examination had , YOU GO TO and behold what paul and them other apostels
went about preaching . YOU GONNA SEE they all preached THE DIRE absolute NEED to believe on JESUS .
Not epi . he o verlooks this and rather mocks those who warn and remind about this Dire need to BELEIVE .
So much for his higher learning , its of men and of the world .

@amigo de christo

 

[Marvelloustime]

dear sister its been years now . but i just remembered real clearly that in time that was HOW
they took petes site ov er .
They keep accusing you sister and as usual and even back then they largely ignored me .
Its that same spirit sister . These inclusiviains are deadly dangerous .
Do not buy a word one outta they lips .
WE do not owe an apologly for pointing to the words and reminders Of CHRIST .
In fact anything that contradicts the him , the basis gospel , OH IT MUST be exposed .
They are working together.
And do not marvel that they can AT FIRST seem to be slightly opposed one to the other.
Its all a ploy and a plot . This was done on petes sight .
Long ago . I think he too lived in florida . not that , that ma tters . But i am whiffing
the same spirit sister .

@amigo de christo

 

[Marvelloustime]

notice its always limit God or etc from this people .
But i noticed something , WHERE be the scripture to support that mans mindset .
THAT my friend is why HE DO NOT bring it but rather brings , oh yalls little minds cannot grasp .
Well what , by grace , my mind does g rasp is , That man is obviously in love with another gospel
which cannot save one soul but has rather made the path to God very inclusive and very broad indeed .
The burden is upon epi , but the only scrips you will see from him
is in the book of epi and the gospel of what epi cliams is truth . accusations upon accusations
and yet NO scrips by which to back his so called HIGHER SPIRITUAL learning .
Which upon q uick examination to his higher spirtual learning ,
One can easily see IT CONTRADICTS even the very Words of Christ . THE JESUS who said YE MUST BLEIEVE ON HIM
And epi calles inclusvism as higher learning and spiritual wisdom . ITS A LIE .
One that has made void the dire need to BELIEVE ON JESUS and rather mauls those who DO REMIND
us about the dire need FOR TO BELIEVE ON CHRIST JESUS .
Upon simple examination had , YOU GO TO and behold what paul and them other apostels
went about preaching . YOU GONNA SEE they all preached THE DIRE absolute NEED to believe on JESUS .
Not epi . he o verlooks this and rather mocks those who warn and remind about this Dire need to BELEIVE .
So much for his higher learning , its of men and of the world .

@amigo de christo