Connecting the dots = a pre-tribulation rapture.

[Spiritual Israelite]

You keep pointing towards a pre-trib rapture. That's great!!!!

He is refuting a pre-trib rapture and not pointing towards it in any way, shape or form. Why are you making things up?

While Noah built the ark....things looked good.... After all it wouldn't make sense to build an ark at the end of the flood. Then again for the post-tribber mind set...who knows that might make sense. Does it make sense to you Jeff?

Do you not believe Jesus when He said that He will come "immediately after the tribulation of those days" (Matthew 24:29-31)? He compared what will happen on the day He returns to what happened with the flood in Noah's day which killed all unbelievers. He said the same thing that happened when the flood came will happen when He comes again (Matthew 24:37-39) in the sense that it will destroy all unbelievers. How do you think the reference to Noah and the flood supports pre-trib? It surely does not.

 

[David in NJ]

That really doesn't matter....as I have said Jesus spells out the social economical conditions.
Those conditions will not be the social economic conditions at the end of the tribulation.

Sure they will = JESUS said so!

Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his master made ruler over his household, to give them food in due season?
46Blessed is that servant whom his master, when he comes, will find so doing.
47Assuredly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all his goods. 48But if that evil servant says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying his coming,’
49and begins to beat his fellow servants, and to eat and drink with the drunkards,
50the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him and at an hour that he is not aware of,
51and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

But take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that Day come on you unexpectedly. 35For it will come as a snare on all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape

 

[CrowCross]

He is refuting a pre-trib rapture and not pointing towards it in any way, shape or form. Why are you making things up?

He's trying to refute the pre-trib rapture....but isn't doing a real good job at it.

Do you not believe Jesus when He said that He will come "immediately after the tribulation of those days" (Matthew 24:29-31)?

Absolutely. Why wouldn't I?

He compared what will happen on the day He returns to what happened with the flood in Noah's day which killed all unbelievers. He said the same thing that happened when the flood came will happen when He comes again (Matthew 24:37-39) in the sense that it will destroy all unbelievers. How do you think the reference to Noah and the flood supports pre-trib? It surely does not.

Once again.....Jesus points out the social economical conditions just prior to His return. He made a list.
How does Jesus' list fit with an end of tribulation return?
Secondly if the list wasn't important to the question...why include it?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

He's trying to refute the pre-trib rapture....but isn't doing a real good job at it.

He's doing a great job, but you are very lacking in discernment, so you can't see it. Ask God for wisdom (James 1:5-7).

Absolutely. Why wouldn't I?

Because He taught a post-trib rapture, not a pre-trib rapture. Yet, here you are still believing in a pre-trib rapture.

Once again.....Jesus points out the social economical conditions just prior to His return. He made a list.

Explain what you're talking about here. I haven't read every post in this thread, so I don't know what you're talking about.

 

[CrowCross]

He's doing a great job, but you are very lacking in discernment, so you can't see it. Ask God for wisdom (James 1:5-7).

Oh, I get it....if I disagree with you or him...I need discernment. Is that how it works?

Because He taught a post-trib rapture, not a pre-trib rapture. Yet, here you are still believing in a pre-trib rapture.

I have no reason why not to believe in a pre-trib rapture over a post trib rapture.

My second choice would be a mid-trib rapture or pre-wrath rapture....which both are far superior to a post trib only rapture.

Explain what you're talking about here. I haven't read every post in this thread, so I don't know what you're talking about.

The social economic conditions are what Jesus spelled out....when you read them ask yourself how they would fit with a post trib rapture only theology....Ask, what will the world look like after all of those seal, bowl and trumpet judgements?

Luke 17:26Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man: 27People were eating and drinking, marrying and being given in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all.

28It was the same in the days of Lot: People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. 29But on the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all.

30It will be just like that on the day the Son of Man is revealed.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Oh, I get it....if I disagree with you or him...I need discernment. Is that how it works?

When it comes to end times doctrine, yes. You don't seem to understand anything at all when it comes to end times doctrine.

I have no reason why not to believe in a pre-trib rapture over a post trib rapture.

There are many reasons, but your mind is closed to what scripture actually teaches about this.

My second choice would be a mid-trib rapture or pre-wrath rapture....which both are far superior to a post trib only rapture.

LOL.

The social economic conditions are what Jesus spelled out....when you read them ask yourself how they would fit with a post trib rapture only theology....Ask, what will the world look like after all of those seal, bowl and trumpet judgements?

Luke 17:26Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man: 27People were eating and drinking, marrying and being given in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all.

28It was the same in the days of Lot: People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. 29But on the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all.

30It will be just like that on the day the Son of Man is revealed.

You don't seem to understand people at all. Even during World Wars 1 and 2 many people were just going about their normal every day business. It will be no different before Jesus returns. How do you think that Jesus was talking about a pre-trib rapture in Luke 17:26-30? Do you believe that when the rapture occurs all unbelievers will be killed? Jesus said that just as all (except Noah and his family, obviously) were killed by the flood and just as all in Sodom (except Lot and his daughters, obviously) were killed, "It will be just like that on the day the Son of Man is revealed". So, do you agree with Jesus that all unbelievers will be killed on the day He comes and the rapture occurs? That's what Paul taught in 1 Thessalonians 4:14-5:4 and 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, also.

The day the Son of Man is revealed is the day of the coming of the Son of Man. Christ's second coming. Christ clearly indicated that His second coming would occur "immediately after the tribulation of those days" (Matthew 24:29-31, Mark 13:24-27). How can you miss something so obvious? He was not talking about some other coming of the Son of Man in Luke 17:30 than the one He talked about as occurring after the tribulation of those days.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Lol. Does your rapture include a resurrection and glorification of your body??

The gathering of rev 14:14 has no resurrection.
A "catching up" only.
The second coming of rev 19 on the white horses has no resurrection either., or rapture.

 

[rebuilder 454]

The flood is not symbolic of the tribulation but the wrath of God that comes after the trib., Thus, the story of Noah is likened to post-trib with God's elect being removed/protected before the unsaved are punished for the wicked lives they lived before the flood.

Same with Lot. Wicked lives, an angel literally takes Lot and family away to safety and the wrath of God destroys Sodom. That's a posttrib type of a story as is Noah.

Nothing in the story is pre-trib related.

The setting is not prewrath.
It is normal life.
Postribs teach one coming.
The second coming is postwrath.

So a "prewrath model" does not fit.
Ironically the "one coming" theory does not fit any model.

 

[rebuilder 454]

I see the ark as a type of Christ. Jesus is our ark.

Much love!

In typology, the ark would be the dwelling place of God.
The ark is not God.

Ark would be a type of heaven.

 

[CrowCross]

When it comes to end times doctrine, yes. You don't seem to understand anything at all when it comes to end times doctrine.


There are many reasons, but your mind is closed to what scripture actually teaches about this.

Yikes..you're still at it...my mind is closed unless I see it and agree with you. Such folly.

LOL.


You don't seem to understand people at all. Even during World Wars 1 and 2 many people were just going about their normal every day business. It will be no different before Jesus returns.

Have you ever actually read Revelation? Sheeze, just in Rev 8 1/3 of the world is wiped out. Back in Rev 6 1/4 of the population dies....Once again I ask, have you ever taken the time to actually read Revelation?
Do you actually think it will be like World Wars 1 and 2 at the end of the tribulation? How can you be so flippant?

How do you think that Jesus was talking about a pre-trib rapture in Luke 17:26-30? Do you believe that when the rapture occurs all unbelievers will be killed?

Absolutely not. Then again it doesn't seem as if many make it through the tribulation to be raptured....also, do you think after the post tribulation rapture all unbelievers will be killed?

Jesus said that just as all (except Noah and his family, obviously) were killed by the flood and just as all in Sodom (except Lot and his daughters, obviously) were killed, "It will be just like that on the day the Son of Man is revealed". So, do you agree with Jesus that all unbelievers will be killed on the day He comes and the rapture occurs? That's what Paul taught in 1 Thessalonians 4:14-5:4 and 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, also.

That's not what Jesus said. Bt, you can force Him into saying that. It's also not what Paul said. You'll need to demonstrate your case better.

The day the Son of Man is revealed is the day of the coming of the Son of Man. Christ's second coming. Christ clearly indicated that His second coming would occur "immediately after the tribulation of those days" (Matthew 24:29-31, Mark 13:24-27). How can you miss something so obvious? He was not talking about some other coming of the Son of Man in Luke 17:30 than the one He talked about as occurring after the tribulation of those days.

How can you miss the fact that Jesus comes twice? I've already showed you what Jesus said about the social economical times and how that wouldn't be like that at the end of the tribulation but like that at the first rapture return then a second physical return at the end of the tribulation.

 

[David in NJ]

Yikes..you're still at it...my mind is closed unless I see it and agree with you.

Your mind is closed because you refuse to agree and submit to the Prophecy of the LORD Jesus Christ.

"Immediately AFTER the tribulation.......I Come to gather My Elect"

Your mind is closed because you refuse to agree and submit to the words of the Apostles

"The dead in Christ Rise FIRST'

Such folly to believe religion/pre-trib over God

 

[CrowCross]

Your mind is closed because you refuse to agree and submit to the Prophecy of the LORD Jesus Christ.

"Immediately AFTER the tribulation.......I Come to gather My Elect"

I AGREE....why do you have such a problem with me agreeing?

 

[David in NJ]

I AGREE....why do you have such a problem with me agreeing?

pre-trib DISAGREES with GOD

Why do you have such a problem/disagreeing with the LORD Jesus Christ and the Apostles?

 

[rebuilder 454]

Your mind is closed because you refuse to agree and submit to the Prophecy of the LORD Jesus Christ.

"Immediately AFTER the tribulation.......I Come to gather My Elect"

Your mind is closed because you refuse to agree and submit to the words of the Apostles

"The dead in Christ Rise FIRST'

Such folly to believe religion/pre-trib over God

Look at how he twisted that passage.
It says he SENDS TO GATHER saints IN HEAVEN.

THEN he comes later...AHEM, ....insert drum roll please....WITH THE SAINTS.

Plain crazy, that postrib rapture invented theory.

 

[rebuilder 454]

pre-trib DISAGREES with GOD

Why do you have such a problem/disagreeing with the LORD Jesus Christ and the Apostles?

Pretrib doctrine does not twist matt 24 as you have found it necessary to do.

Your deal is so busted.
You have invested in such folly.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Yikes..you're still at it...my mind is closed unless I see it and agree with you. Such folly.

Have you ever actually read Revelation? Sheeze, just in Rev 8 1/3 of the world is wiped out. Back in Rev 6 1/4 of the population dies....Once again I ask, have you ever taken the time to actually read Revelation?
Do you actually think it will be like World Wars 1 and 2 at the end of the tribulation? How can you be so flippant?

Absolutely not. Then again it doesn't seem as if many make it through the tribulation to be raptured....also, do you think after the post tribulation rapture all unbelievers will be killed?

That's not what Jesus said. Bt, you can force Him into saying that. It's also not what Paul said. You'll need to demonstrate your case better.

How can you miss the fact that Jesus comes twice? I've already showed you what Jesus said about the social economical times and how that wouldn't be like that at the end of the tribulation but like that at the first rapture return then a second physical return at the end of the tribulation.

If you count rev 14, it is 3 times
3 separate comings.

 

[rebuilder 454]

...and check this out;
In order to be a post trib adherent, I have to spiritualize the 144000 .
And discount any reference to them, as being first fruits
Actually, they bury the concept of firstfruits, as is evidenced that they are oblivious to the concept, or the concept of harvest.

and discount them being ethnic Jews.

And then I must be able to recite the folly, that there is a "pretrib wicked person rapture of half the planet before the tribulation".

Then, on top of all that. I need to be replacement theology .
(that there's no such thing as revelation ch Fourteen, where the Jewish people are gathered.)
Which ironically, Rev 14, authenticates the prophecy of romans chapters nine through eleven

All that and more in a busted doctrine, that it's adherents admit, is originated in men, of the early church.

Not ever.
No thank you.

 

[CrowCross]

pre-trib DISAGREES with GOD

Why do you have such a problem/disagreeing with the LORD Jesus Christ and the Apostles?

How do I disagree with what you say God says????

 

[CrowCross]

If you count rev 14, it is 3 times
3 separate comings.

I understand what you're saying and why you're saying it...based primarily on the location or chapter in Revelation the verse is presented.
Personally I see this as a description as relating to the physical return of Christ at the end of the tribulation.
I see it as corresponding with the battle surrounding Jerusalem and the destruction of those opposed to Christ Jesus described in Zechariah 14 and Revelation 19.

 

[David in NJ]

How do I disagree with what you say God says????

Every time you say pre-trib rapture

Every time you say 3 Comings of the LORD

Every time you say rapture BEFORE the 2nd Coming/Resurrection