Sinless Perfection. Why do so many teach against what Jesus taught?

[CrowCross]

At least that was better than the doctrine of demons that all the sins we willfully commit in the past, present and future are forgiven for the rest of our lives.

For a Christian...that is indeed true. As a christian I have been washed by the blood of Christ, nailed all of my sins to the cross with Him....That is, all of my sins past, present and future have been imputed to Christ Jesus and His righteousness has been imputed to me.

 

[Episkopos]

You didn't even address my "analogy".

Christians are forgiven of all of their sins...all of them....yet still have a sin nature.
Does this mean we should continue to sin? No. As christians should we strive not to sin? yes.

Have you heard of the cross of Christ? The power of the cross takes away the sin nature so that a man can walk as Jesus walked...without sin.

Christians will receive a glorified body at the resurrection/rapture event of 1 Thes 4. and 1 Cor 15.
Just as Christ Jesus has a physical body so shall His bride....Your post didn't address what you called "my analogy".

Really????

We are given the Holy Spirit as we are born again.

Most people who get a sample of grace do NOTHING with it...or they try improving on that deposit by human effort.....anything but go to God to get (buy) the FULL measure of grace that makes people OVERCOMERS in Christ.

There is probably more unbelief in the churches today than outside of it.

If you ask a passerby on the street if it's possible for a man of God to stop sinning...they will agree more than if you ask a seminary student. People are religiously conditioned into an ideology that denies grace...the power of God.

But God says His grace is sufficient. Even the smallest amount of grace is enough to overcome sin.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The bible says...all have sinned (past tense). But modern (un)believers ignore all the other verses that talk about how evil ONGOING sin is.

your right it is evil..

thats why only grace will get us to heaven.

So then it's on the (un)believers to find a verse that says...ALL WILL SIN. (future tense). It doesn't exist. So that should silence the unbelief. But it doesn't because of dishonesty...stacking up even more sins on each other making a person worse and worse in God's eyes. Adding sin to sin as Isaiah says.
The very beginning of an attitude that God accepts is honesty.

But it does exist

John said if we say we have no sin we are decieved, and there is no truth in us

John included himself
John spoke in present tense. not past tense.
in other words. at any moment at any time, if you or I claim we have no sin, we are decieved.

so hey, you want to be decieved, feel free..

I will keep looking to God

But that kind of honesty is lacking in (un)believers...because it exposes the unbelief held by people who want to be justified by Christ IN their sins.

Actually it exposes people who think they are justified by the law. in how they act. and in doing so rejecting the cross of christ.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

For a Christian...that is indeed true. As a christian I have been washed by the blood of Christ, nailed all of my sins to the cross with Him....That is, all of my sins past, present and future have been imputed to Christ Jesus and His righteousness has been imputed to me.

Amen, Just like he did to abraham in Gen 15.

Adam did not become sinless after this, poor abraham had many of his sins after this exposed for all the world to see.

 

[Episkopos]

For a Christian...that is indeed true. As a christian I have been washed by the blood of Christ, nailed all of my sins to the cross with Him....That is, all of my sins past, present and future have been imputed to Christ Jesus and His righteousness has been imputed to me.

This is as false as can be. It is the invented ideology of a Luther....the heretic.

Your sins are imputed to you and no other. You are not seen by God to be as righteous as He is. You are just a sinner who is made a lot worse because of your naming and claiming. You are poor naked wretched and blind. Listen to Jesus. Don't pretend.

Rather, you need to surrender your life to Christ and seek to enter into His kingdom. You need to be converted from your evil ways to God's way.

 

[CrowCross]

Although John does not say what sin-unto-death means by giving an example but I am inclined to believe he meant spiritual / eternal death.

When a christian is saved...they are saved. Saved from what you have identified as "spiritual / eternal death." As a christian at the moment we are born again we are given eternal life. Not the possibility of eternal life but ...eternal life.
You can't lose this eternal life...as by definition it's, eternal. If you have eternal life and lose it then it was never eternal.

I would say the sin unto death is a physical death.

 

[CrowCross]

This is as false as can be. It is the invented ideology of a Luther....the heretic.

Your sins are imputed to you and no other. You are not seen by God to be as righteous as He is. You are just a sinner who is made a lot worse because of your naming and claiming. You are poor naked wretched and blind. Listen to Jesus. Don't pretend.

Rather, you need to surrender your life to Christ and seek to enter into His kingdom. You need to be converted from your evil ways to God's way.

I would say God invented it...not Luther.
Perhaps Luther figured it out like you need to figure it out....but it seems as if Luther simply read the bible. What are you reading?

2 Cor 5:21 God made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God.

 

[Episkopos]

When a christian is saved...they are saved. Saved from what you have identified as "spiritual / eternal death." As a christian at the moment we are born again we are given eternal life. Not the possibility of eternal life but ...eternal life.
You can't lose this eternal life...as by definition it's, eternal. If you have eternal life and lose it then it was never eternal.

I would say the sin unto death is a physical death.

This is not biblical doctrine.

1. You must endure to the end to be saved. (according to Jesus) A man must finish the race or be disqualified.There is no consolation prize for somebody who turns back.

2. Initial salvation is only a sample of grace. That's why you don't understand the gospel yet. You don't know the power of grace yet. All you know is the sample. And the sample is NOT the power over sin, but a sample of what IS the power over sin.

3. You need to be crucified in the outer man to know God and be where He is. You need to have your sin nature in remission to walk in the Spirit and experience eternal life.

4. God has to accept you into the Beloved as you surrender ALL in a total sacrifice of all you have and are. From there He crucifies your outer man sin nature in order to elevate your inner man into His presence and power.

5. As long as you claim falsely to have eternal life then you already have your reward here and you forfeit eternal life as a good ending in the future. Instead, be honest, recognize that you are still lost in your sins...and turn to God for HIS power and life.

 

[Episkopos]

I would say God invented it...not Luther.
Perhaps Luther figured it out like you need to figure it out....but it seems as if Luther simply read the bible. What are you reading?

The bible. No logical person is going to think that Luther figured out the truth after 1500 years of church history. Luther was a frustrated monk who didn't have any connection to God. Frustrated by God's silence he re-invented doctrine to include his own lack of acceptance into the kingdom...which paved the way for the pretend version of Christianity adopted by Protestantism.

2 Cor 5:21 God made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God.

That's the one corrupted verse that destroys all other verse ...for the deceived ones.

The Greek word GINOMAI means "to do or FULFILL" So the verse should read....that we might FULFILL (or DO) the righteousness of God in Him. Thy will be done (ginomai) on earth as it is in heaven.

The other more popular translation, that makes no logical sense, comes from the translators having an ideological bent that skews the bible narrative to justify sinners who harbour unbelief.

 

[CrowCross]

This is not biblical doctrine.

1. You must endure to the end to be saved. (according to Jesus) A man must finish the race or be disqualified.There is no consolation prize for somebody who turns back.

Endure what?
To the end of what?
To be saved from what?

......the context of that verse is surrounded by the period of the tribulation of Revelation.
You have presented it out of context. I've noticed the Mormons do the same thing you do with the verse to support a works based faith.

2. Initial salvation is only a sample of grace. That's why you don't understand the gospel yet. You don't know the power of grace yet. All you know is the sample. And the sample is NOT the power over sin, but a sample of what IS the power over sin.

Are you trying to express your view of sanctification?

3. You need to be crucified in the outer man to know God and be where He is. You need to have your sin nature in remission to walk in the Spirit and experience eternal life.

No, it's not the remission of your sin nature that allows you to walk in the Spirit and experience eternal life but rather the Spirit that allows you to walk with Him and in doing so causes the sanctification of a person.

4. God has to accept you into the Beloved as you surrender ALL in a total sacrifice of all you have and are. From there He crucifies your outer man sin nature in order to elevate your inner man into His presence and power.

So, it's what I do...that gains me eternal life? Is this what I hear you saying?

5. As long as you claim falsely to have eternal life then you already have your reward here and you forfeit eternal life as a good ending in the future. Instead, be honest, recognize that you are still lost in your sins...and turn to God for HIS power and life.

Can you support point 5 with scripture? I would imagine you'll leave out John 3:16 when you do.

 

[CrowCross]

The bible. No logical person is going to think that Luther figured out the truth after 1500 years of church history. Luther was a frustrated monk who didn't have any connection to God. Frustrated by God's silence he re-invented doctrine to include his own lack of acceptance into the kingdom...which paved the way for the pretend version of Christianity adopted by Protestantism.

That's the one corrupted verse that destroys all other verse ...for the deceived ones.

The Greek word GINOMAI means "to do or FULFILL" So the verse should read....that we might FULFILL (or DO) the righteousness of God in Him. Thy will be done (ginomai) on earth as it is in heaven.

The other more popular translation, that makes no logical sense, comes from the translators having an ideological bent that skews the bible narrative to justify sinners who harbour unbelief.

I checked out the word....you seem to be in error.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

if you think you have reached sinless perfection in this lifetime

John says your are decieved
You have stunted your growth. because when you do sin (and you will) you will never admit you have sinned.. and continue in it.

What you are saying and believing is what will stunt your growth. You believe you are still a sinner. Therefore, "as a man thinks in his heart, so is he."

I KNOW I've been freed from sin, and I reckon myself freed from sin, otherwise, I would sin like those who believe they sin.

Consider this verse in Romans 8:29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. (not the only one) 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

Romans 6:5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin.

Romans 6: 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

Romans 7:5-6 5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

1 John 3:4-9 "4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

Jesus was CONCEIVED with the seed of the Father, thus He could not sin. We who are born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him.
You've been taught things that do not coincide with the Truth that can set you free. John 8:34-36 "Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed."

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What you are saying and believing is what will stunt your growth. You believe you are still a sinner. Therefore, "as a man thinks in his heart, so is he."

I actually try not to worry about it. and go on seeking after the things of the spirit and following the law of love.

I just refuse to prove myself as decieved thinking I have no sin.

if you want to be deceived by thinking you have arrived. and are perfect by your deeds and actions. well thats on you

 

[CrowCross]

It seems as if Paul had a problem with continued sin...Paul puts it this way:

13Did that which is good, then, become death to me? Certainly not! But in order that sin might be exposed as sin, it produced death in me through what was good, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.

14We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do, I do not do. But what I hate, I do. 16And if I do what I do not want to do, I admit that the law is good. 17In that case, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

18I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh; for I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19For I do not do the good I want to do. Instead, I keep on doing the evil I do not want to do. 20And if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

21So this is the principle I have discovered: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22For in my inner being I delight in God’s law.23But I see another law at work in my body, warring against the law of my mind and holding me captive to the law of sin that dwells within me.b

24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25Thanks be to God, through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, with my mind I serve the law of God, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.