Pictures of Christ 2 returns...

[CrowCross]

If she is a midtribber that would make her a pretribber then. Midtrib and pretrib are the same thing. Both views have the rapture occuring before the time of the 42 month reign of the beast, thus great tribulation. And everyone knows that that equals pre great tribulation. Pretribbers and midtribbers aren't trying to escape non great tribulation, they are trying to escape great tribulation. No one is being forced to worship the beast or take it's mark before great tribulation. All of those things happen during great tribulation.

A Midtribber's timeline looks basically like this. The 70th week begins. There is no great tribulation happening on the earth anywhere during the first half of the 70th week.

Then in the midst of the 70th week, not to be confused with the middle of great tribulation, the rapture occurs at the beginning of great tribulation, thus pre great tribulation. The middle of great tibulation would not be in the middle of the 70th week, it would be 21 months later after the middle of the 70th week.

Midtribbers are conflating the 70th week with great tribulation. Great tribulation is not 7 years, it's 42 months. In the event you can't follow my logic then give it to an AI to explain my logic to you. I don't mind.

The 7 year period is called the tribulation. The last 3 1/2 years of the tribulation is often referred to as the great tribulation portion of the tribulation.

 

[ewq1938]

Of course it is...all pre-tribber know that. Rev 19 is 7 years after the rapture...

Closer to 7 min after the rapture.

How long after the marriage supper of the Lamb will be the return of Jesus on His white horse?

How could the marriage supper happen before he returned for his bride? The return happens, then the marriage and after is the marriage supper.

 

[ewq1938]

The 7 year period is called the tribulation. The last 3 1/2 years of the tribulation is often referred to as the great tribulation portion of the tribulation.

Jesus didn't split two periods of tribulation using two terms. He spoke of one period, said it was shortened, and called it tribulation in one gospel and great tribulation in another gospel. Same exact period of time and length.



It's a reference to the same exact time period:

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, (G3173 megas G2347 thlipsis) such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Mar 13:19 For in those days shall be affliction, (G2347 thlipsis) such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.
Mar 13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.


affliction and tribulation are the same Greek word.

There are some small differences in the gospels. Matthew has great tribulation where Mark just has tribulation (affliction). It's the SAME EXACT THING.

 

[CrowCross]

How could the marriage supper happen before he returned for his bride? The return happens, then the marriage and after is the marriage supper.

Ahhhhh, the marriage supper of the Lamb happens prior to the 2nd coming of Jesus in Rev 19.
You see, if you find where the bible mentions the white horse return....go up a few verses and you read of the supper.

My bible says....11Then I saw heaven standing open,....then, then, then.....which is after the supper.

Is Rev not in chronological order?

 

[Davidpt]

The 7 year period is called the tribulation. The last 3 1/2 years of the tribulation is often referred to as the great tribulation portion of the tribulation.

If the entire 70th week is to be feared, why do Midtribbers have themselves still here during the first half, but right before the 2nd half begins, they hit the panic button and no longer want themselves to still be here the duration of the 70th week? There is no such thing as 7 years of great tribulation. Great tribulation is what Pretribbers and Midtribbers are hoping to escape. It's that 42 month reign that puts chills up and down their spines.

 

[ewq1938]

Ahhhhh, the marriage supper of the Lamb happens prior to the 2nd coming of Jesus in Rev 19.
You see, if you find where the bible mentions the white horse return....go up a few verses and you read of the supper.

My bible says....11Then I saw heaven standing open,....then, then, then.....which is after the supper.

Is Rev not in chronological order?

Some parts are, some are not. You are placing the marriage supper before the bridegroom even comes for the bride. He must come (for all not some), then the wedding, and only after that is the supper.

 

[Douggg]

Some parts are, some are not. You are placing the marriage supper before the bridegroom even comes for the bride. He must come (for all not some), then the wedding, and only after that is the supper.

Your post-trib resurrection/rapture view is wrong.

There is no resurrection of the dead in Christ mentioned in Revelation 19. There will be an exclusive resurrection of the martyred great tribulation saints in Revelation 20:4.

The resurrection/rapture will have taken place before the great tribulation begins.

 

[CrowCross]

Some parts are, some are not.

I would imagine you know which verses are and which verses aren't.

I would imagine the marriage supper and the white horse return should be swapped in order.

You are placing the marriage supper before the bridegroom even comes for the bride.

Your sentence should have said....you are placing the marriage supper before the bridegroom comes with His bride.

He must come (for all not some), then the wedding, and only after that is the supper.

Rapture to heaven where we will live in the rooms Jesus built for us...marriage...supper....return of Jesus with His bride.

 

[rebuilder 454]

The 7th one when JESUS returns as King of kings and Lord of lords.

You have no idea what the purpose of the rapture , or the trib is.
You also have no idea what the rapture is.

Nor does any postribber.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Closer to 7 min after the rapture.




How could the marriage supper happen before he returned for his bride? The return happens, then the marriage and after is the marriage supper.

No.
The Bride is taken to the fathers house.
Your deal is so unbelievably messed up.

 

[ewq1938]

Your post-trib resurrection/rapture view is wrong.

There is no resurrection of the dead in Christ mentioned in Revelation 19.

Because it had already taken place before he descends from trhe clouds to where Armageddon happens. The rapture had taken place in the clouds just prior.

There will be an exclusive resurrection of the martyred great tribulation saints in Revelation 20:4.'

It is actually part of the entire resurrection event. Rev 20 just focuses upon that one group but all the dead in Christ rise at the same time.

The resurrection/rapture will have taken place before the great tribulation begins.

No, those happen just after the trib has ended at the 7th trump.

 

[ewq1938]

I would imagine you know which verses are and which verses aren't.

I do my best.

I would imagine the marriage supper and the white horse return should be swapped in order.

As I said, the rtraditional order of a Jewish wedding is the bridegroom arriving, taking the bride to the wedding to wed, then after is the supper. Yoiu have the supper first, then the arrival of the bridegroom for the bride and not sure where you have the wedding but the supper is not before the CVoming. Rev is not always in chronological order.

Your sentence should have said....you are placing the marriage supper before the bridegroom comes with His bride.

Part of the bride comes with him from heaven, then the rest of the bride is brought up to the clouds to join them, then the descend to Amrageddon in Rev 19.

Rapture to heaven where we will live in the rooms Jesus built for us...marriage...supper....return of Jesus with His bride.

The rapture only goes as high as the clouds. The rooms in heaven will be empty at that time because they follow Christ to the clouds to meet those raptured there.

 

[CrowCross]

Yoiu have the supper first, then the arrival of the bridegroom for the bride

??????????

The arrival is the rapture....Christ comes for His bride....then takes them to heaven. 1 Thes 4

 

[Douggg]

It is actually part of the entire resurrection event. Rev 20 just focuses upon that one group but all the dead in Christ rise at the same time.

No, the Revelation 20:4 exclusive resurrection of the great tribulation saints is called the first resurrection of the millennial period in Revelation 20:5.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

 

[rebuilder 454]

No, the Revelation 20:4 exclusive resurrection of the great tribulation saints is called the first resurrection of the millennial period in Revelation 20:5.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

There is no resurrection where you are placing it.
The first resurrection wording of that passage is LOOKING BACK at THE FIRST RESURRECTION.
Your timetable in Rev 20 , is what you reframed it to be.

If that is a "first resurrection" then the dead in Christ did not rise first?

The first resurrection follows the firstfruits of the first resurrection.
(Firstfruits is Jesus.)

The tribulation saints are seen in heaven, As "the innumerable number" DURING THE TRIB.
Note that BEFORE they have arrived, the martyrs are NOT IN the general population of heaven, but are kept in an area under the throne. ( until thier number is fulfilled)
Now, with the innumerable number, they are in the general population of heaven.
( the martyrs number being fulfilled)

Rev 20 is simply looking at what has been there for years, and they are now are occupying thrones.

Another note is that your model has the "innumerable number" martyrs missing the wedding feast.

 

[Davidpt]

There is no resurrection where you are placing it.
The first resurrection wording of that passage is LOOKING BACK at THE FIRST RESURRECTION.
Your timetable in Rev 20 , is what you reframed it to be.

If that is a "first resurrection" then the dead in Christ did not rise first?

The first resurrection follows the firstfruits of the first resurrection.
(Firstfruits is Jesus.)

The tribulation saints are seen in heaven, As "the innumerable number" DURING THE TRIB.
Note that BEFORE they have arrived, the martyrs are NOT IN the general population of heaven, but are kept in an area under the throne. ( until thier number is fulfilled)
Now, with the innumerable number, they are in the general population of heaven.
( the martyrs number being fulfilled)

Rev 20 is simply looking at what has been there for years, and they are now are occupying thrones.

Another note is that your model has the "innumerable number" martyrs missing the wedding feast.

Since you are apparently tracking their movements in heaven, are any of the martyrs ever in heaven being priests to God and Christ, and sitting on thrones ruling with Christ?

 

[David in NJ]

A post rapture event

Is the LORD Jesus Christ pre-trib or post-trib?

 

[Douggg]

The tribulation saints are seen in heaven, As "the innumerable number" DURING THE TRIB.
Note that BEFORE they have arrived, the martyrs are NOT IN the general population of heaven, but are kept in an area under the throne. ( until thier number is fulfilled)
Now, with the innumerable number, they are in the general population of heaven.
( the martyrs number being fulfilled)

Their souls are seen in heaven.

Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

There is no resurrection where you are placing it.
The first resurrection wording of that passage is LOOKING BACK at THE FIRST RESURRECTION.
Your timetable in Rev 20 , is what you reframed it to be.

No, the passage is no looking back, just as Revelation 20:1-3 of Satan being cast into the bottomless pit for a thousand year prison sentence is not looking back.

The exclusive resurrection of the martyred great tribulation saints will be right at the start of the thousand years. They will reign with Christ a thousand years.

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.