The Kingdom of God

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ScottA

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What happens between the Grave and the Resurrection is what is under scrutiny here. Most people cannot fathom a discontinuity in our existence. Being left behind after a loved one dies is reason enough for most people to have some sort of continuity story to soothe the aching heart--hence, "Heaven," BUT the truth is that the loved one, from our perspective, now "awaits" the Resurrection.

From the loved one's perspective, it will all happen in the "blink of an eye." They will close their eyes in death and reopen them in the Resurrection! For them, no time has passed. Their lives were safe in the loving, complete memory of an immortal, omniscient and benevolent God! The Resurrection is an act of Creation!
Your explanation still has timing issues...

There is no "awaiting" the resurrection after death, only before. Time only exists on this side, not on that side. Technically speaking that would put the resurrection in the future for those who died before Christ's resurrection, and in the past for all who live and die after his resurrection. We "were" crucified and raised up [with] Him. "In the twinkling of an eye" is simply a way of explaining a timeless event to those existing on this "created" timeline illusion.

Incidentally...Yes, that means...we all arrive together (as one body). So, then, "as with Adam" all died - but each in his own time, and likewise in the resurrection, we all "were" raised up "with Christ", but "each in his own order."

Otherwise, I think we're good.
 
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Retrobyter

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GINOLJC, Revelation 22:4a "And they shall see his face". but, 1 Corinthians 15:51 "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed". then I can see him as he is.

Shalom, 101G.
What about the unbelievers who will be part of this group found here?

Romans 14:10-11
10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ (of the Messiah).
11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
KJV

2 Corinthians 5:10-11
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ (of the Messiah); that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.
KJV


These verses are NOT just about believers! They refer to ALL who will stand before the Messiah! And, this not only applies to those who stand at the Great White Throne Judgment at the end of the age, but also DURING the Millennium, the first one thousand years of the Messiah's Kingdom! Therefore, all these, too, shall stand before the Messiah and see Him face to face!
 

Retrobyter

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thing is who said or where does it say God is Omnipresent? God doesn't dwell in darkness does He? He isn't in the wicked is He? that is somewhere isn't it? God is the Light in the Light therefore dwells in the Light and there is such a place as darkness therefore your saying God dwells in darkness.

scripture says God is omnipotent (Almighty, infinite in power) and the He inhabits eternity, and Heaven, (which isn't everywhere) but omnipresent don't see it.

there are places God called in creation to accommodate the presence of the living, He called heaven the firmament between the waters the waters He called seas the land He called earth, the Light He called day and darkness He called knight. oh yea and man He called Adam which is the place for His Word to be executed in the earth. hence God's place in the earth given to men. just because the father of lies dwells in darkness doesn't mean Satan isn't a spirit that lives. and God doesn't dwell with Satan nor where Satan dwells so your incorrect with that omnipresent stuff.

Shalom, DPMartin.

CAN God hear the prayer of the sinner, wherever he may be? Who do you think is administering punishment in the Lake of Fire?! Who do you think is pressing on one's conscience when he or she sins? Just to whom do you think haSatan (the Enemy) must answer?! Don't you know that God created ALL that we see? That He SUSTAINS all we see? He knows every electron, every neutrino, every photon in the whole UNIVERSE! He knows when a single sparrow falls on earth, but He also knows AND CONTROLS the spectacular power issued in a supernova across the galaxy! Just how big is the God YOU serve?

David said,

Psalm 139:7-12
7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
9 If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;
10 Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me.
11 If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me.
12 Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.
KJV


Jonah thought he could get away from God and his responsibility to Him. He was wrong:

Jonah 1:1-16
1 Now the word of the LORD (YHWH) came unto Jonah the son of Amittai, saying,
2 Arise, go to Nineveh, that great city, and cry against it; for their wickedness is come up before me.
3 But Jonah rose up to flee unto Tarshish from the presence of the LORD, and went down to Joppa; and he found a ship going to Tarshish: so he paid the fare thereof, and went down into it, to go with them unto Tarshish from the presence of the LORD (YHWH).
4 But the LORD (YHWH) sent out a great wind into the sea, and there was a mighty tempest in the sea, so that the ship was like to be broken.
5 Then the mariners were afraid, and cried every man unto his god, and cast forth the wares that were in the ship into the sea, to lighten it of them. But Jonah was gone down into the sides of the ship; and he lay, and was fast asleep.
6 So the shipmaster came to him, and said unto him, What meanest thou, O sleeper? arise, call upon thy God, if so be that God will think upon us, that we perish not.
7 And they said every one to his fellow, Come, and let us cast lots, that we may know for whose cause this evil is upon us. So they cast lots, and the lot fell upon Jonah.
8 Then said they unto him, Tell us, we pray thee, for whose cause this evil is upon us; What is thine occupation? and whence comest thou? what is thy country? and of what people art thou?
9 And he said unto them, I am an Hebrew; and I fear the LORD (YHWH), the God of heaven, which hath made the sea and the dry land.
10 Then were the men exceedingly afraid, and said unto him, Why hast thou done this? For the men knew that he fled from the presence of the LORD (YHWH), because he had told them.
11 Then said they unto him, What shall we do unto thee, that the sea may be calm unto us? for the sea wrought, and was tempestuous.
12 And he said unto them, Take me up, and cast me forth into the sea; so shall the sea be calm unto you: for I know that for my sake this great tempest is upon you.
13 Nevertheless the men rowed hard to bring it to the land; but they could not: for the sea wrought, and was tempestuous against them.
14 Wherefore they cried unto the LORD (YHWH), and said, We beseech thee, O LORD (YHWH), we beseech thee, let us not perish for this man's life, and lay not upon us innocent blood: for thou, O LORD (YHWH), hast done as it pleased thee.
15 So they took up Jonah, and cast him forth into the sea: and the sea ceased from her raging.
16 Then the men feared the LORD (YHWH) exceedingly, and offered a sacrifice unto the LORD (YHWH), and made vows.
KJV


It's WRONG to think that haSatan doesn't answer to God! Look at Job:

Job 1:8-12
8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.
12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.
KJV

Job 2:1-6
1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
2 And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
3 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.
4 And Satan answered the LORD, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life.
5 But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face.
6 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life.
KJV


HaSatan can do NOTHING without God's permission!

Just who do you think keeps the universe working? Paul said,

Acts 17:24-31
24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
KJV


David also said,

Psalm 19:1-6
1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,
5 Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.
6 His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.
KJV
 

Retrobyter

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Your explanation still has timing issues...

There is no "awaiting" the resurrection after death, only before. Time only exists on this side, not on that side. Technically speaking that would put the resurrection in the future for those who died before Christ's resurrection, and in the past for all who live and die after his resurrection. We "were" crucified and raised up [with] Him. "In the twinkling of an eye" is simply a way of explaining a timeless event to those existing on this "created" timeline illusion.

Incidentally...Yes, that means...we all arrive together (as one body). So, then, "as with Adam" all died - but each in his own time, and likewise in the resurrection, we all "were" raised up "with Christ", but "each in his own order."

Otherwise, I think we're good.

Shalom, ScottA.

Who says that "time only exists on this side?" Many people stumble on the words of the song, "When the Roll is Called Up Yonder," by James M. Black:

When the trumpet of the Lord shall sound, and time shall be no more,
And the morning breaks, eternal, bright and fair;
When the saved of earth shall gather over on the other shore,
And the roll is called up yonder, I’ll be there.


However, he got these words from Revelation 10:6, "That there should be time no longer." (KJV) But, it's important to see this phrase within its context:

Revelation 10:5-7
5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,
6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
KJV


The Greek word for "time" in verse 6 is "chronos":

NT:5550 chronos (khron'-os); of uncertain derivation; a space of time (in general, and thus properly distinguished from NT:2540, which designates a fixed or special occasion; and from NT:165, which denotes a particular period) or interval; by extension, an individual opportunity; by implication, delay:
KJV - years old, season, space, (X often-) time (-s), (a) while.

(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)


The context and the word's definition dictate that this phrase means "there should be no more delay!" It does NOT mean that time will cease to exist! One cannot have movement in 3-dimensional space without time. Time is called the "FOURTH dimension," and units of velocity are measured in miles per hour or meters per second.

"In the twinkling of an eye" in 1 Corinthians 15:52 does NOT mean 'a timeless event to those existing on this "created" timeline illusion.' It means "a very quick jerk of the eye," a "slight movement of the eye!" The Greek word for "twinkling" (in the KJV) is...

NT:4493 rhipee (hree-pay'); from NT:4496; a jerk (of the eye, i.e. [by analogy] an instant):
KJV - twinkling.

(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)


No, we're not quite seeing eye to eye, yet. Furthermore, the Resurrection IS in the future! It happens when the Lord Yeshua` the Messiah returns.
 

101G

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What about the unbelievers who will be part of this group found here
answer, Mark 16:16 "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned". damned here means "to judge against". I believe that straight forward.
 

DPMartin

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Shalom, DPMartin.

CAN God hear the prayer of the sinner, wherever he may be? Who do you think is administering punishment in the Lake of Fire?! Who do you think is pressing on one's conscience when he or she sins? Just to whom do you think haSatan (the Enemy) must answer?! Don't you know that God created ALL that we see? That He SUSTAINS all we see? He knows every electron, every neutrino, every photon in the whole UNIVERSE! He knows when a single sparrow falls on earth, but He also knows AND CONTROLS the spectacular power issued in a supernova across the galaxy! Just how big is the God YOU serve?


this sounds like what you think God ought to be, no scripture here to show omnipresence.
______________________________________________________________

David said,
Psalm 139:7-12
Jonah thought he could get away from God and his responsibility to Him. He was wrong:
Jonah 1:1-16

David and Jonah like many of the Israelites mentioned in the OT are those who have a relationship already with the Almighty in which God had chosen them. no omnipresence necessary to accomplish that, is there? you don't have to be everywhere at once to maintain a relationship that some one can't escape. once God is with you He's with you unless He decides otherwise.
_________________________________________________________

It's WRONG to think that haSatan doesn't answer to God! Look at Job:
Job 1:8-12
Job 2:1-6

HaSatan can do NOTHING without God's permission!

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.


you seem to omit the following that proceeds your quote, why did you do that I wonder:



note presenting themselves that would be in the Presence of the Lord, correct? how does that show omnipresence? to permit some one in your presence doesn't require you presence to be everywhere at once does it? you've haven't shown a lick of reason that God is everywhere at once.

________________________________________________________

Just who do you think keeps the universe working? Paul said,
Acts 17:24-31
David also said,
Psalm 19:1-6
KJV


again kings command nations and generals command armies that do at their word and pleasure and it doesn't require the presence of the king or a general for an army to march, just the commandment to do so. it seems you think to know how God keeps things in order, many its the wisdom, and knowhow and understanding in His commands to His creation, that they need only His command.

God is specific through out His relationship with Israel and its leaders about where He is and how to contact Him and by what method. I don't know where you've got this thinking from, I suspect theists that don't know God or who or what He is, which is SOP in philosophy sites.

as far as where God is:


1Jn_1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.


and we do know there is darkness, that is a place for the wicked.
also John continues:

1Jn_1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

if you walk in the Light then that is the place you walk.

1Jn_2:8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.

1Jn_2:9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.

hence Light is a place where someone can be, and also darkness is a place where someone can be, both place where living beings can be.

1Jn_2:10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.

again abode, a place of dwelling.
 
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Retrobyter

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this sounds like what you think God ought to be, no scripture here to show omnipresence.
______________________________________________________________

Shalom, DPMartin.

Yes, because for most believers, that would have been enough. Obviously not a believer like yourself.

David and Jonah like many of the Israelites mentioned in the OT are those who have a relationship already with the Almighty in which God had chosen them. no omnipresence necessary to accomplish that, is there? you don't have to be everywhere at once to maintain a relationship that some one can't escape. once God is with you He's with you unless He decides otherwise.
_________________________________________________________

If you call Jonah's relationship a favorable one, you've got some learning to do! The point was this: Where was he going to go where he was apart from God? NOWHERE would do! He could have gone to the moon and God would still be there!

you seem to omit the following that precedes your quote, why did you do that I wonder:

Job 1:6

note presenting themselves that would be in the Presence of the Lord, correct? how does that show omnipresence? to permit some one in your presence doesn't require your presence to be everywhere at once does it? you've haven't shown a lick of reason that God is everywhere at once.

________________________________________________________

I didn't bother to quote Job 1:6 because I didn't need to open a whole different can of worms! The term "sons of God" is often said to mean "angels." In truth, I believe one can prove that "sons of God" were NEVER a reference to "angels!" When someone who is evil wants to find God, where is he most likely to go? He'll go where OTHERS have found Him! At this time in history, He was to be found where God's PEOPLE would go to present their sacrifices. That's not "Heaven"; that's the ALTAR!

One cannot prove WHERE God is when one is trying to prove that God is everywhere; instead, one must use an indirect proof by attacking the problem from the other perspective: Show me one place where God is NOT present! If no such place can be found, then the conclusion must be the opposite.

And, based on the following verses after the next quote, don't say "the darkness," because it's not true.

kings command nations and generals command armies that do at their word and pleasure and it doesn't require the presence of the king or a general for an army to march, just the commandment to do so. it seems you think to know how God keeps things in order, many (to many? maybe? mainly?) its the wisdom, and knowhow and understanding in His commands to His creation, that they need only His command.

God is specific through out His relationship with Israel and its leaders about where He is and how to contact Him and by what method. I don't know where you've got this thinking from, I suspect theists that don't know God or who or what He is, which is SOP in philosophy sites.

I get my thinking from the Scriptures, not from "theists who don't know God or who or what He is." I find your suspicion offensive. And, I repeat: Just how big is YOUR God?! Even Shlomoh (Solomon) admits the following:

2 Chronicles 6:16-18
16 Now therefore, O LORD God of Israel, keep with thy servant David my father that which thou hast promised him, saying, There shall not fail thee a man in my sight to sit upon the throne of Israel; yet so that thy children take heed to their way to walk in my law, as thou hast walked before me.
17 Now then, O LORD God of Israel, let thy word be verified, which thou hast spoken unto thy servant David.
18 But will God in very deed dwell with men on the earth? behold, heaven (the skies) and the heaven of heavens (space) cannot contain thee; how much less this house which I have built!
KJV


He then prays for God to use His Temple as a BEACON upon which God's people could focus when praying to Him. It's not His House as a dwelling; it's His House as a focal point! And, God answers that He will.

As far as where God is:

1Jn_1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

and we do know there is darkness, that is a place for the wicked.
also John continues:

1Jn_1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

if you walk in the Light then that is the place you walk.

1Jn_2:8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.

1Jn_2:9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.

hence Light is a place where someone can be, and also darkness is a place where someone can be, both place where living beings can be.

1Jn_2:10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.

again abode, a place of dwelling.

What do you do with verses like these?

1 Kings 8:10-12
10 And it came to pass, when the priests were come out of the holy place, that the cloud filled the house of the LORD,
11 So that the priests could not stand to minister because of the cloud: for the glory of the LORD had filled the house of the LORD.
12 Then spake Solomon, The LORD said that he would dwell in thick darkness.
KJV

2 Chronicles 6:1
6 Then said Solomon, The LORD hath said that he would dwell in the thick darkness.
KJV

Psalm 18:9-11
9 He bowed the heavens also, and came down: and darkness was under his feet.
10 And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly: yea, he did fly upon the wings of the wind.
11 He made darkness his secret place; his pavilion round about him were dark waters and thick clouds of the skies.
KJV

Psalm 139:11-12
11 If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me.
12 Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.
KJV

Isaiah 45:5-7
5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
KJV


Your outlook on God is too simplistic, and frankly, it's wrong.
 

Retrobyter

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answer, Mark 16:16 "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned". damned here means "to judge against". I believe that straight forward.
Shalom, 101G

I understand "damned" means "condemned," but that's too curt an answer. I'll repeat:

These verses are NOT just about believers! They refer to ALL who will stand before the Messiah! And, this not only applies to those who stand at the Great White Throne Judgment at the end of the age, but also DURING the Millennium, the first one thousand years of the Messiah's Kingdom! Therefore, all these, too, shall stand before the Messiah and see Him face to face!
 

101G

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Shalom, 101G

I understand "damned" means "condemned," but that's too curt an answer. I'll repeat:

These verses are NOT just about believers! They refer to ALL who will stand before the Messiah! And, this not only applies to those who stand at the Great White Throne Judgment at the end of the age, but also DURING the Millennium, the first one thousand years of the Messiah's Kingdom! Therefore, all these, too, shall stand before the Messiah and see Him face to face!
read my post again
 

ScottA

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Shalom, ScottA.

Who says that "time only exists on this side?" Many people stumble on the words of the song, "When the Roll is Called Up Yonder," by James M. Black:

When the trumpet of the Lord shall sound, and time shall be no more,
And the morning breaks, eternal, bright and fair;
When the saved of earth shall gather over on the other shore,
And the roll is called up yonder, I’ll be there.


However, he got these words from Revelation 10:6, "That there should be time no longer." (KJV) But, it's important to see this phrase within its context:

Revelation 10:5-7
5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,
6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
KJV


The Greek word for "time" in verse 6 is "chronos":

NT:5550 chronos (khron'-os); of uncertain derivation; a space of time (in general, and thus properly distinguished from NT:2540, which designates a fixed or special occasion; and from NT:165, which denotes a particular period) or interval; by extension, an individual opportunity; by implication, delay:
KJV - years old, season, space, (X often-) time (-s), (a) while.

(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)


The context and the word's definition dictate that this phrase means "there should be no more delay!" It does NOT mean that time will cease to exist! One cannot have movement in 3-dimensional space without time. Time is called the "FOURTH dimension," and units of velocity are measured in miles per hour or meters per second.

"In the twinkling of an eye" in 1 Corinthians 15:52 does NOT mean 'a timeless event to those existing on this "created" timeline illusion.' It means "a very quick jerk of the eye," a "slight movement of the eye!" The Greek word for "twinkling" (in the KJV) is...

NT:4493 rhipee (hree-pay'); from NT:4496; a jerk (of the eye, i.e. [by analogy] an instant):
KJV - twinkling.

(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)


No, we're not quite seeing eye to eye, yet. Furthermore, the Resurrection IS in the future! It happens when the Lord Yeshua` the Messiah returns.
I am not familiar with that song - but to answer your question, "Who says time only exists on this side?"...I am.

As long as you refer to the world, indeed, those will be your findings. But then again, that is not the topic here.
 

bbyrd009

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the Millennium, the first one thousand years of the Messiah's Kingdom!
let's all just picture it in our minds, shall we. i would like to direct your attention to the day before this Thousand Year Reign ends; do (you) suppose that God will make the announcement, "Ok, the Thousand Year Reign ends tomorrow..." or something similar?

You don't think that maybe reducing spiritual concepts into literal occurrences is maybe not the way to go?
 

Retrobyter

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There is - I've seen it.
Shabbat shalom, ScottA.

Sorry, but the Scriptures don't teach that. Time is not ended. Time is FOREVER!

Genesis 13:14-16
14 And the LORD said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward:
15 For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.
16 And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered.
KJV

Exodus 31:15-17
15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
KJV

2 Samuel 7:10-17

10 Moreover I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime,
11 And as since the time that I commanded judges to be over my people Israel, and have caused thee to rest from all thine enemies. Also the LORD telleth thee that he will make thee an house.
12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.
13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.
14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:
15 But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee.
16 And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever.
17 According to all these words, and according to all this vision, so did Nathan speak unto David.
KJV

Psalm 72:5-20

5 They shall fear thee as long as the sun and moon endure, throughout all generations.
6 He shall come down like rain upon the mown grass: as showers that water the earth.
7 In his days shall the righteous flourish; and abundance of peace so long as the moon endureth.
8 He shall have dominion also from sea to sea, and from the river unto the ends of the earth.
...
15 And he shall live, and to him shall be given of the gold of Sheba: prayer also shall be made for him continually; and daily shall he be praised.
16 There shall be an handful of corn in the earth upon the top of the mountains; the fruit thereof shall shake like Lebanon: and they of the city shall flourish like grass of the earth.
17 His name shall endure for ever: his name shall be continued as long as the sun: and men shall be blessed in him: all nations shall call him blessed.
18 Blessed be the LORD God, the God of Israel, who only doeth wondrous things.
19 And blessed be his glorious name for ever: and let the whole earth be filled with his glory; Amen, and Amen.
20 The prayers of David the son of Jesse are ended.
KJV

Psalm 89:1-52
1 I will sing of the mercies of the LORD for ever: with my mouth will I make known thy faithfulness to all generations.
2 For I have said, Mercy shall be built up for ever: thy faithfulness shalt thou establish in the very heavens.
3 I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant,
4 Thy seed will I establish for ever, and build up thy throne to all generations. Selah.
5 And the heavens shall praise thy wonders, O LORD: thy faithfulness also in the congregation of the saints.
6 For who in the heaven can be compared unto the LORD? who among the sons of the mighty can be likened unto the LORD?
7 God is greatly to be feared in the assembly of the saints, and to be had in reverence of all them that are about him.
8 O LORD God of hosts, who is a strong LORD like unto thee? or to thy faithfulness round about thee?
9 Thou rulest the raging of the sea: when the waves thereof arise, thou stillest them.
10 Thou hast broken Rahab in pieces, as one that is slain; thou hast scattered thine enemies with thy strong arm.
11 The heavens are thine, the earth also is thine: as for the world and the fulness thereof, thou hast founded them.
12 The north and the south thou hast created them: Tabor and Hermon shall rejoice in thy name.
13 Thou hast a mighty arm: strong is thy hand, and high is thy right hand.
14 Justice and judgment are the habitation of thy throne: mercy and truth shall go before thy face.
15 Blessed is the people that know the joyful sound: they shall walk, O LORD, in the light of thy countenance.
16 In thy name shall they rejoice all the day: and in thy righteousness shall they be exalted.
17 For thou art the glory of their strength: and in thy favour our horn shall be exalted.
18 For the LORD is our defence; and the Holy One of Israel is our king.
19 Then thou spakest in vision to thy holy one, and saidst, I have laid help upon one that is mighty; I have exalted one chosen out of the people.
20 I have found David my servant; with my holy oil have I anointed him:
21 With whom my hand shall be established: mine arm also shall strengthen him.
22 The enemy shall not exact upon him; nor the son of wickedness afflict him.
23 And I will beat down his foes before his face, and plague them that hate him.
24 But my faithfulness and my mercy shall be with him: and in my name shall his horn be exalted.
25 I will set his hand also in the sea, and his right hand in the rivers.
26 He shall cry unto me, Thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation (rescue).
27 Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth.
28 My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him.
29 His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven.
30 If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments;
31 If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments;
32 Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.
33 Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail.
34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.
35 Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David.
36 His seed shall endure forever, and his throne as the sun before me.
37 It shall be established for ever as the moon, and as a faithful witness in heaven. Selah.
38 But thou hast cast off and abhorred, thou hast been wroth with thine anointed.
39 Thou hast made void the covenant of thy servant: thou hast profaned his crown by casting it to the ground.
40 Thou hast broken down all his hedges; thou hast brought his strong holds to ruin.
41 All that pass by the way spoil him: he is a reproach to his neighbours.
42 Thou hast set up the right hand of his adversaries; thou hast made all his enemies to rejoice.
43 Thou hast also turned the edge of his sword, and hast not made him to stand in the battle.
44 Thou hast made his glory to cease, and cast his throne down to the ground.
45 The days of his youth hast thou shortened: thou hast covered him with shame. Selah.
46 How long, LORD? wilt thou hide thyself for ever? shall thy wrath burn like fire?
47 Remember how short my time is: wherefore hast thou made all men in vain?
48 What man is he that liveth, and shall not see death? shall he deliver his soul from the hand of the grave? Selah.
49 LORD, where are thy former lovingkindnesses, which thou swarest unto David in thy truth?
50 Remember, LORD, the reproach of thy servants; how I do bear in my bosom the reproach of all the mighty people;
51 Wherewith thine enemies have reproached, O LORD; wherewith they have reproached the footsteps of thine anointed.
52 Blessed be the LORD for evermore. Amen, and Amen.
KJV

Psalm 110:4-7
4 The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.
5 The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath.
6 He shall judge among the heathen, he shall fill the places with the dead bodies; he shall wound the heads over many countries.
7 He shall drink of the brook in the way: therefore shall he lift up the head.
KJV

Psalm 125:1-2
1 They that trust in the LORD shall be as mount Zion, which cannot be removed, but abideth for ever.
2 As the mountains are round about Jerusalem, so the LORD is round about his people from henceforth even for ever.
KJV

Ecclesiastes 1:4
4 One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.
KJV

Isaiah 66:22-23
22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
KJV


Time goes on!
 
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ScottA

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Shabbat shalom, ScottA.

Sorry, but the Scriptures don't teach that. Time is not ended. Time is FOREVER!

Genesis 13:14-16
14 And the LORD said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward:
15 For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.
16 And ...


Time goes on!
So it would seem...but not if we keep in the proper context.

For example, if I gave you a book, an exceedingly long story of many generations, and told you it was yours "forever"...it would indeed be yours forever, and yet the story itself would have a beginning and an end - which is also scriptural. So...in the way that you have laid it out, it cannot be completely reconciled with scripture.

But even among the scripture, what I have said, can be seen. With David for instance, the "forever" promise does not mean that David's earthly kingdom would continue forever...but was rather a foretelling of the timeless and eternal kingdom of Christ. This is why Jesus asked how it is that the Christ is the son of David.

What I have said is true.
 
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Retrobyter

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So it would seem...but not if we keep in the proper context.

For example, if I gave you a book, an exceedingly long story of many generations, and told you it was yours "forever"...it would indeed be yours forever, and yet the story itself would have a beginning and an end - which is also scriptural. So...in the way that you have laid it out, it cannot be completely reconciled with scripture.

But even among the scripture, what I have said, can be seen. With David for instance, the "forever" promise does not mean that David's earthly kingdom would continue forever...but was rather a foretelling of the timeless and eternal kingdom of Christ. This is why Jesus asked how it is that the Christ is the son of David.

What I have said is true.
Shalom, ScottA.

No, what you have said is a PARTIAL truth! (Which is a lie, unfortunately.) David's earthly kingdom WILL continue forever! Don't you understand that "Christ" is just the Greek translation of "Messiah?" And, "MESSIAH" ("MASHIYACH," spelled "mem-shin-yod-chet" in Hebrew) is the root since it was from THAT word that "Christ" was translated! (There's no such thing as a "timeless and eternal kingdom of Christ.") There IS a thing such as an "eternal Kingdom of the Ultimate Messiah going on through time forever!"

You are jumping to some sort of "conclusion" that there is no time in the "spiritual world" or the future or whatever. But, simple physics says that we live in a space-mass-time continuum! ANY occurrence of a body with mass moving through space measures time! Without time, there is no movement! God is NOT STATIC! He is DYNAMIC! While He Himself never changes, He INVOKES CHANGES in others! It's found in the simple velocity statement, v=ma, and velocity is measured in "distance (space) per time!" What? Do you think you're going to be FROZEN IN BLISS for eternity?!!! YUK!

It's time to come back down to earth - the NEW Earth, in fact - and find that THAT Earth is your eternal Home!
 

ScottA

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Shalom, ScottA.

No, what you have said is a PARTIAL truth! (Which is a lie, unfortunately.) David's earthly kingdom WILL continue forever! Don't you understand that "Christ" is just the Greek translation of "Messiah?" And, "MESSIAH" ("MASHIYACH," spelled "mem-shin-yod-chet" in Hebrew) is the root since it was from THAT word that "Christ" was translated! (There's no such thing as a "timeless and eternal kingdom of Christ.") There IS a thing such as an "eternal Kingdom of the Ultimate Messiah going on through time forever!"

You are jumping to some sort of "conclusion" that there is no time in the "spiritual world" or the future or whatever. But, simple physics says that we live in a space-mass-time continuum! ANY occurrence of a body with mass moving through space measures time! Without time, there is no movement! God is NOT STATIC! He is DYNAMIC! While He Himself never changes, He INVOKES CHANGES in others! It's found in the simple velocity statement, v=ma, and velocity is measured in "distance (space) per time!" What? Do you think you're going to be FROZEN IN BLISS for eternity?!!! YUK!

It's time to come back down to earth - the NEW Earth, in fact - and find that THAT Earth is your eternal Home!
You are speaking as one of the world. "Space-mass-time" are scripturally "nothing", and there is no salvation of the flesh which is condemned to death, but must be born again of the spirit - which is timeless, just as God is spirit and timeless. Your perception is out of context. What is of the world, is of the world, and what is of the spirit, is spirit, and not of the world.
 
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ScottA

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Questions concerning the Kingdom of God

I have not studied theology. When I read scripture, it seems to speak things multidimensional, things I do not quite understand. I would like to trust it is the spirit teaching, but since I am unsure, I would like to test those things through others who have studied theology and have put in the time dividing the Word of God. Warning: this could be completely wrong and may not align with scripture. Is David a type for God the Father? Is Solomon a type for Jesus Christ, the son—the dead and, now the living child?

1) David has more than any other in scripture.

2) Jesus Christ takes David’s throne.

2) Solomon builds His fathers house and his house. In addition, Solomon builds it out of the trees of Lebanon while scriptures say the trees of Lebanon of High statue will be hewn down. (a foreshadowing of Christ building a temple with no hands.) Isaiah 10:34 "And he shall cut down the thickets of the forest with iron, and Lebanon shall fall by a mighty one." And Psalms 92:12 "The righteous shall flourish like the palm tree: he shall grow like a cedar in Lebanon."

3) Solomon means (Shalom) peace. Solomon was given wisdom.

I am sorry, quite a bit of scripture is required:

(1 Kings 1:33) “The king also said unto them, Take with you the servants of your lord, and cause Solomon my son to ride upon mine own mule, and bring him down to Gihon:”


One dead child. One living Child.

(2 Samuel 12) And Nathan departed unto his house. And the Lord struck the child that Uriah's wife bare unto David, and it was very sick.

David therefore besought God for the child; and David fasted, and went in, and lay all night upon the earth.

And the elders of his house arose, and went to him, to raise him up from the earth: but he would not, neither did he eat bread with them.

And it came to pass on the seventh day, that the child died. And the servants of David feared to tell him that the child was dead: for they said, Behold, while the child was yet alive, we spake unto him, and he would not hearken unto our voice: how will he then vex himself, if we tell him that the child is dead?

But when David saw that his servants whispered, David perceived that the child was dead: therefore David said unto his servants, Is the child dead? And they said, He is dead.

Then David arose from the earth, and washed, and anointed himself, and changed his apparel, and came into the house of the Lord, and worshipped: then he came to his own house; and when he required, they set bread before him, and he did eat.

Then said his servants unto him, What thing is this that thou hast done? thou didst fast and weep for the child, while it was alive; but when the child was dead, thou didst rise and eat bread.

And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell whether God will be gracious to me, that the child may live?

But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.”

And David comforted Bathsheba his wife, and went in unto her, and lay with her: and she bare a son, and he called his name Solomon: and the Lord loved him.”

The peculiar test of, One dead child. One living Child. The dead and, now the living child?

Then came there two women, that were harlots, unto the king, and stood before him.

And the one woman said, O my lord, I and this woman dwell in one house; and I was delivered of a child with her in the house.

And it came to pass the third day after that I was delivered, that this woman was delivered also: and we were together; there was no stranger with us in the house, save we two in the house.

And this woman's child died in the night; because she overlaid it.

And she arose at midnight, and took my son from beside me, while thine handmaid slept, and laid it in her bosom, and laid her dead child in my bosom.

And when I rose in the morning to give my child suck, behold, it was dead: but when I had considered it in the morning, behold, it was not my son, which I did bear.

And the other woman said, Nay; but the living is my son, and the dead is thy son. And this said, No; but the dead is thy son, and the living is my son. Thus they spake before the king.

Then said the king, The one saith, This is my son that liveth, and thy son is the dead: and the other saith, Nay; but thy son is the dead, and my son is the living.

And the king said, Bring me a sword. And they brought a sword before the king.

And the king said, Divide the living child in two, and give half to the one, and half to the other.

Then spake the woman whose the living child was unto the king, for her bowels yearned upon her son, and she said, O my lord, give her the living child, and in no wise slay it. But the other said, Let it be neither mine nor thine, but divide it.

Then the king answered and said, Give her the living child, and in no wise slay it: she is the mother thereof.

And all Israel heard of the judgment which the king had judged; and they feared the king: for they saw that the wisdom of God was in him, to do judgment.”

Which leads into the question pertaining to the Lords kingdom.

Solomon builds His Father’s house first: (1 Kings 6)

“And the king commanded, and they brought great stones, costly stones, and hewed stones, to lay the foundation of the house.”

“And against the wall of the house he built chambers round about, against the walls of the house round about, both of the temple and of the oracle: and he made chambers round about:”

“And in the eleventh year, in the month Bul, which is the eighth month, was the house finished throughout all the parts thereof, and according to all the fashion of it. So was he seven years in building it.”

Then Solomon(the son) builds his house:

“And his house where he dwelt had another court within the porch, which was of the like work. Solomon made also an house for Pharaoh’s daughter, whom he had taken to wife, like unto this porch. All these were of costly stones, according to the measures of hewed stones, sawed with saws, within and without, even from the foundation unto the coping, and so on the outside toward the great court. And the foundation was of costly stones, even great stones, stones of ten cubits, and stones of eight cubits.” Note Noah’s Ark was pitched within and without.

“And the LORD said unto David my father, Whereas it was in thine heart to build an house unto my name, thou didst well that it was in thine heart. Nevertheless thou shalt not build the house; but thy son that shall come forth out of thy loins, he shall build the house unto my name.”

The completion of (Solomon) the sons house.

“And it came to pass at the end of twenty years, when Solomon had built the two houses, the house of the Lord, and the king’s house,”

It took Solomon 7 years to build his father(David)s house. Could this possibly be the seven day creation? Does the combined total of 20 years(to build the father and sons house) indicate the time frame of the completion of the building of God's house(old testament and new testament) and then the restoration of the Lord's Kingdom. Christ taking David’s Throne?
Yes. All things, including scripture, come in parables and are a fore-shadowing of the truth on high - and it has been given to the children of God to see it.
 
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VictoryinJesus

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When speaking about the Kingdom of God what about the 7 parables in Matt. 13.
1. The seed. Not just the letter but the life.
2. The tares. Involves contention.
3. Mustard seed. Pure Faith
4. Leaven. Active
5. Hid. Exclusive
6. Price. Takes your all
7. Net Cast. Discrimination

It appears to be orchestrated and by design.
As you once quoted in the Beatitudes: Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled

nice. Interesting to note that there are contending doctrines at each of these 7; that they each have a tension built into them, we contend over each of these points in some way.

Wish I could go back and ask questions here. What a shame to get rid of bbyrd. Big loss.
 
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amadeus

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When speaking about the Kingdom of God what about the 7 parables in Matt. 13.
1. The seed. Not just the letter but the life.
2. The tares. Involves contention.
3. Mustard seed. Pure Faith
4. Leaven. Active
5. Hid. Exclusive
6. Price. Takes your all
7. Net Cast. Discrimination

It appears to be orchestrated and by design.
As you once quoted in the Beatitudes: Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled

nice. Interesting to note that there are contending doctrines at each of these 7; that they each have a tension built into them, we contend over each of these points in some way.

Wish I could go back and ask questions here. What a shame to get rid of bbyrd. Big loss.

Perhaps one day the powers that be here will relent and allow him once more. I know he would love to return. He had invested in some things here in his search for more of God. He would instigate thought and even prayer although many people were unable to understand many of his words... Something like the parables of Jesus, no?

See here the first of the seven in Matthew 13:

"3) And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow;
4) And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:
5) Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:
6) And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
7) And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:
8) But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.
9) Who hath ears to hear, let him hear." Matt 13:3-9

1. The seed. Not just the letter but the life. [as per @2404 ]

"For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting." Gal 6:8

"Doth the plowman plow all day to sow? doth he open and break the clods of his ground?
When he hath made plain the face thereof, doth he not cast abroad the fitches, and scatter the cummin, and cast in the principal wheat and the appointed barley and the rie in their place?" Isaiah 28:24-25

"Sow to yourselves in righteousness, reap in mercy; break up your fallow ground: for it is time to seek the LORD, till he come and rain righteousness upon you" Hosea 10:12
 
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