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Featured The Kingdom of God

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by VictoryinJesus, May 27, 2017.

  1. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    Your explanation still has timing issues...

    There is no "awaiting" the resurrection after death, only before. Time only exists on this side, not on that side. Technically speaking that would put the resurrection in the future for those who died before Christ's resurrection, and in the past for all who live and die after his resurrection. We "were" crucified and raised up [with] Him. "In the twinkling of an eye" is simply a way of explaining a timeless event to those existing on this "created" timeline illusion.

    Incidentally...Yes, that means...we all arrive together (as one body). So, then, "as with Adam" all died - but each in his own time, and likewise in the resurrection, we all "were" raised up "with Christ", but "each in his own order."

    Otherwise, I think we're good.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2017
  2. Retrobyter

    Retrobyter Well-Known Member

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    Shalom, 101G.
    What about the unbelievers who will be part of this group found here?

    Romans 14:10-11
    10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ (of the Messiah).
    11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
    KJV

    2 Corinthians 5:10-11
    10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ (of the Messiah); that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
    11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.
    KJV


    These verses are NOT just about believers! They refer to ALL who will stand before the Messiah! And, this not only applies to those who stand at the Great White Throne Judgment at the end of the age, but also DURING the Millennium, the first one thousand years of the Messiah's Kingdom! Therefore, all these, too, shall stand before the Messiah and see Him face to face!
     
  3. Retrobyter

    Retrobyter Well-Known Member

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    Shalom, DPMartin.

    CAN God hear the prayer of the sinner, wherever he may be? Who do you think is administering punishment in the Lake of Fire?! Who do you think is pressing on one's conscience when he or she sins? Just to whom do you think haSatan (the Enemy) must answer?! Don't you know that God created ALL that we see? That He SUSTAINS all we see? He knows every electron, every neutrino, every photon in the whole UNIVERSE! He knows when a single sparrow falls on earth, but He also knows AND CONTROLS the spectacular power issued in a supernova across the galaxy! Just how big is the God YOU serve?

    David said,

    Psalm 139:7-12
    7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
    8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
    9 If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;
    10 Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me.
    11 If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me.
    12 Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.
    KJV


    Jonah thought he could get away from God and his responsibility to Him. He was wrong:

    Jonah 1:1-16
    1 Now the word of the LORD (YHWH) came unto Jonah the son of Amittai, saying,
    2 Arise, go to Nineveh, that great city, and cry against it; for their wickedness is come up before me.
    3 But Jonah rose up to flee unto Tarshish from the presence of the LORD, and went down to Joppa; and he found a ship going to Tarshish: so he paid the fare thereof, and went down into it, to go with them unto Tarshish from the presence of the LORD (YHWH).
    4 But the LORD (YHWH) sent out a great wind into the sea, and there was a mighty tempest in the sea, so that the ship was like to be broken.
    5 Then the mariners were afraid, and cried every man unto his god, and cast forth the wares that were in the ship into the sea, to lighten it of them. But Jonah was gone down into the sides of the ship; and he lay, and was fast asleep.
    6 So the shipmaster came to him, and said unto him, What meanest thou, O sleeper? arise, call upon thy God, if so be that God will think upon us, that we perish not.
    7 And they said every one to his fellow, Come, and let us cast lots, that we may know for whose cause this evil is upon us. So they cast lots, and the lot fell upon Jonah.
    8 Then said they unto him, Tell us, we pray thee, for whose cause this evil is upon us; What is thine occupation? and whence comest thou? what is thy country? and of what people art thou?
    9 And he said unto them, I am an Hebrew; and I fear the LORD (YHWH), the God of heaven, which hath made the sea and the dry land.
    10 Then were the men exceedingly afraid, and said unto him, Why hast thou done this? For the men knew that he fled from the presence of the LORD (YHWH), because he had told them.
    11 Then said they unto him, What shall we do unto thee, that the sea may be calm unto us? for the sea wrought, and was tempestuous.
    12 And he said unto them, Take me up, and cast me forth into the sea; so shall the sea be calm unto you: for I know that for my sake this great tempest is upon you.
    13 Nevertheless the men rowed hard to bring it to the land; but they could not: for the sea wrought, and was tempestuous against them.
    14 Wherefore they cried unto the LORD (YHWH), and said, We beseech thee, O LORD (YHWH), we beseech thee, let us not perish for this man's life, and lay not upon us innocent blood: for thou, O LORD (YHWH), hast done as it pleased thee.
    15 So they took up Jonah, and cast him forth into the sea: and the sea ceased from her raging.
    16 Then the men feared the LORD (YHWH) exceedingly, and offered a sacrifice unto the LORD (YHWH), and made vows.
    KJV


    It's WRONG to think that haSatan doesn't answer to God! Look at Job:

    Job 1:8-12
    8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
    9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
    10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
    11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.
    12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.
    KJV

    Job 2:1-6
    1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
    2 And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
    3 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.
    4 And Satan answered the LORD, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life.
    5 But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face.
    6 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life.
    KJV


    HaSatan can do NOTHING without God's permission!

    Just who do you think keeps the universe working? Paul said,

    Acts 17:24-31
    24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
    25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
    26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
    27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
    28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
    29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
    30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
    31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
    KJV


    David also said,

    Psalm 19:1-6
    1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
    2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
    3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
    4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,
    5 Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.
    6 His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.
    KJV
     
  4. Retrobyter

    Retrobyter Well-Known Member

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    Shalom, ScottA.

    Who says that "time only exists on this side?" Many people stumble on the words of the song, "When the Roll is Called Up Yonder," by James M. Black:

    When the trumpet of the Lord shall sound, and time shall be no more,
    And the morning breaks, eternal, bright and fair;
    When the saved of earth shall gather over on the other shore,
    And the roll is called up yonder, I’ll be there.


    However, he got these words from Revelation 10:6, "That there should be time no longer." (KJV) But, it's important to see this phrase within its context:

    Revelation 10:5-7
    5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,
    6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
    7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
    KJV


    The Greek word for "time" in verse 6 is "chronos":

    NT:5550 chronos (khron'-os); of uncertain derivation; a space of time (in general, and thus properly distinguished from NT:2540, which designates a fixed or special occasion; and from NT:165, which denotes a particular period) or interval; by extension, an individual opportunity; by implication, delay:
    KJV - years old, season, space, (X often-) time (-s), (a) while.

    (Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)


    The context and the word's definition dictate that this phrase means "there should be no more delay!" It does NOT mean that time will cease to exist! One cannot have movement in 3-dimensional space without time. Time is called the "FOURTH dimension," and units of velocity are measured in miles per hour or meters per second.

    "In the twinkling of an eye" in 1 Corinthians 15:52 does NOT mean 'a timeless event to those existing on this "created" timeline illusion.' It means "a very quick jerk of the eye," a "slight movement of the eye!" The Greek word for "twinkling" (in the KJV) is...

    NT:4493 rhipee (hree-pay'); from NT:4496; a jerk (of the eye, i.e. [by analogy] an instant):
    KJV - twinkling.

    (Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)


    No, we're not quite seeing eye to eye, yet. Furthermore, the Resurrection IS in the future! It happens when the Lord Yeshua` the Messiah returns.
     
  5. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    answer, Mark 16:16 "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned". damned here means "to judge against". I believe that straight forward.
     
  6. DPMartin

    DPMartin Well-Known Member

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    this sounds like what you think God ought to be, no scripture here to show omnipresence.
    ______________________________________________________________

    David and Jonah like many of the Israelites mentioned in the OT are those who have a relationship already with the Almighty in which God had chosen them. no omnipresence necessary to accomplish that, is there? you don't have to be everywhere at once to maintain a relationship that some one can't escape. once God is with you He's with you unless He decides otherwise.
    _________________________________________________________


    you seem to omit the following that proceeds your quote, why did you do that I wonder:



    note presenting themselves that would be in the Presence of the Lord, correct? how does that show omnipresence? to permit some one in your presence doesn't require you presence to be everywhere at once does it? you've haven't shown a lick of reason that God is everywhere at once.

    ________________________________________________________


    again kings command nations and generals command armies that do at their word and pleasure and it doesn't require the presence of the king or a general for an army to march, just the commandment to do so. it seems you think to know how God keeps things in order, many its the wisdom, and knowhow and understanding in His commands to His creation, that they need only His command.

    God is specific through out His relationship with Israel and its leaders about where He is and how to contact Him and by what method. I don't know where you've got this thinking from, I suspect theists that don't know God or who or what He is, which is SOP in philosophy sites.

    as far as where God is:


    1Jn_1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.


    and we do know there is darkness, that is a place for the wicked.
    also John continues:

    1Jn_1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

    if you walk in the Light then that is the place you walk.

    1Jn_2:8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.

    1Jn_2:9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.

    hence Light is a place where someone can be, and also darkness is a place where someone can be, both place where living beings can be.

    1Jn_2:10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.

    again abode, a place of dwelling.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2017
  7. Retrobyter

    Retrobyter Well-Known Member

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    Shalom, DPMartin.

    Yes, because for most believers, that would have been enough. Obviously not a believer like yourself.

    If you call Jonah's relationship a favorable one, you've got some learning to do! The point was this: Where was he going to go where he was apart from God? NOWHERE would do! He could have gone to the moon and God would still be there!

    I didn't bother to quote Job 1:6 because I didn't need to open a whole different can of worms! The term "sons of God" is often said to mean "angels." In truth, I believe one can prove that "sons of God" were NEVER a reference to "angels!" When someone who is evil wants to find God, where is he most likely to go? He'll go where OTHERS have found Him! At this time in history, He was to be found where God's PEOPLE would go to present their sacrifices. That's not "Heaven"; that's the ALTAR!

    One cannot prove WHERE God is when one is trying to prove that God is everywhere; instead, one must use an indirect proof by attacking the problem from the other perspective: Show me one place where God is NOT present! If no such place can be found, then the conclusion must be the opposite.

    And, based on the following verses after the next quote, don't say "the darkness," because it's not true.

    I get my thinking from the Scriptures, not from "theists who don't know God or who or what He is." I find your suspicion offensive. And, I repeat: Just how big is YOUR God?! Even Shlomoh (Solomon) admits the following:

    2 Chronicles 6:16-18
    16 Now therefore, O LORD God of Israel, keep with thy servant David my father that which thou hast promised him, saying, There shall not fail thee a man in my sight to sit upon the throne of Israel; yet so that thy children take heed to their way to walk in my law, as thou hast walked before me.
    17 Now then, O LORD God of Israel, let thy word be verified, which thou hast spoken unto thy servant David.
    18 But will God in very deed dwell with men on the earth? behold, heaven (the skies) and the heaven of heavens (space) cannot contain thee; how much less this house which I have built!
    KJV


    He then prays for God to use His Temple as a BEACON upon which God's people could focus when praying to Him. It's not His House as a dwelling; it's His House as a focal point! And, God answers that He will.

    What do you do with verses like these?

    1 Kings 8:10-12
    10 And it came to pass, when the priests were come out of the holy place, that the cloud filled the house of the LORD,
    11 So that the priests could not stand to minister because of the cloud: for the glory of the LORD had filled the house of the LORD.
    12 Then spake Solomon, The LORD said that he would dwell in thick darkness.
    KJV

    2 Chronicles 6:1
    6 Then said Solomon, The LORD hath said that he would dwell in the thick darkness.
    KJV

    Psalm 18:9-11
    9 He bowed the heavens also, and came down: and darkness was under his feet.
    10 And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly: yea, he did fly upon the wings of the wind.
    11 He made darkness his secret place; his pavilion round about him were dark waters and thick clouds of the skies.
    KJV

    Psalm 139:11-12
    11 If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me.
    12 Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.
    KJV

    Isaiah 45:5-7
    5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
    6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
    7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
    KJV


    Your outlook on God is too simplistic, and frankly, it's wrong.
     
  8. Retrobyter

    Retrobyter Well-Known Member

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    Shalom, 101G

    I understand "damned" means "condemned," but that's too curt an answer. I'll repeat:

    These verses are NOT just about believers! They refer to ALL who will stand before the Messiah! And, this not only applies to those who stand at the Great White Throne Judgment at the end of the age, but also DURING the Millennium, the first one thousand years of the Messiah's Kingdom! Therefore, all these, too, shall stand before the Messiah and see Him face to face!
     
  9. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    read my post again
     
  10. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    I am not familiar with that song - but to answer your question, "Who says time only exists on this side?"...I am.

    As long as you refer to the world, indeed, those will be your findings. But then again, that is not the topic here.
     
  11. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    let's all just picture it in our minds, shall we. i would like to direct your attention to the day before this Thousand Year Reign ends; do (you) suppose that God will make the announcement, "Ok, the Thousand Year Reign ends tomorrow..." or something similar?

    You don't think that maybe reducing spiritual concepts into literal occurrences is maybe not the way to go?
     
  12. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    me too--but what if there is no "side?" :)
     
  13. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    There is - I've seen it.
     
  14. Retrobyter

    Retrobyter Well-Known Member

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    Shabbat shalom, ScottA.

    Sorry, but the Scriptures don't teach that. Time is not ended. Time is FOREVER!

    Genesis 13:14-16
    14 And the LORD said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward:
    15 For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.
    16 And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered.
    KJV

    Exodus 31:15-17
    15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
    16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
    17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
    KJV

    2 Samuel 7:10-17

    10 Moreover I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime,
    11 And as since the time that I commanded judges to be over my people Israel, and have caused thee to rest from all thine enemies. Also the LORD telleth thee that he will make thee an house.
    12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.
    13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.
    14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:
    15 But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee.
    16 And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever.
    17 According to all these words, and according to all this vision, so did Nathan speak unto David.
    KJV

    Psalm 72:5-20

    5 They shall fear thee as long as the sun and moon endure, throughout all generations.
    6 He shall come down like rain upon the mown grass: as showers that water the earth.
    7 In his days shall the righteous flourish; and abundance of peace so long as the moon endureth.
    8 He shall have dominion also from sea to sea, and from the river unto the ends of the earth.
    ...
    15 And he shall live, and to him shall be given of the gold of Sheba: prayer also shall be made for him continually; and daily shall he be praised.
    16 There shall be an handful of corn in the earth upon the top of the mountains; the fruit thereof shall shake like Lebanon: and they of the city shall flourish like grass of the earth.
    17 His name shall endure for ever: his name shall be continued as long as the sun: and men shall be blessed in him: all nations shall call him blessed.
    18 Blessed be the LORD God, the God of Israel, who only doeth wondrous things.
    19 And blessed be his glorious name for ever: and let the whole earth be filled with his glory; Amen, and Amen.
    20 The prayers of David the son of Jesse are ended.
    KJV

    Psalm 89:1-52
    1 I will sing of the mercies of the LORD for ever: with my mouth will I make known thy faithfulness to all generations.
    2 For I have said, Mercy shall be built up for ever: thy faithfulness shalt thou establish in the very heavens.
    3 I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant,
    4 Thy seed will I establish for ever, and build up thy throne to all generations. Selah.
    5 And the heavens shall praise thy wonders, O LORD: thy faithfulness also in the congregation of the saints.
    6 For who in the heaven can be compared unto the LORD? who among the sons of the mighty can be likened unto the LORD?
    7 God is greatly to be feared in the assembly of the saints, and to be had in reverence of all them that are about him.
    8 O LORD God of hosts, who is a strong LORD like unto thee? or to thy faithfulness round about thee?
    9 Thou rulest the raging of the sea: when the waves thereof arise, thou stillest them.
    10 Thou hast broken Rahab in pieces, as one that is slain; thou hast scattered thine enemies with thy strong arm.
    11 The heavens are thine, the earth also is thine: as for the world and the fulness thereof, thou hast founded them.
    12 The north and the south thou hast created them: Tabor and Hermon shall rejoice in thy name.
    13 Thou hast a mighty arm: strong is thy hand, and high is thy right hand.
    14 Justice and judgment are the habitation of thy throne: mercy and truth shall go before thy face.
    15 Blessed is the people that know the joyful sound: they shall walk, O LORD, in the light of thy countenance.
    16 In thy name shall they rejoice all the day: and in thy righteousness shall they be exalted.
    17 For thou art the glory of their strength: and in thy favour our horn shall be exalted.
    18 For the LORD is our defence; and the Holy One of Israel is our king.
    19 Then thou spakest in vision to thy holy one, and saidst, I have laid help upon one that is mighty; I have exalted one chosen out of the people.
    20 I have found David my servant; with my holy oil have I anointed him:
    21 With whom my hand shall be established: mine arm also shall strengthen him.
    22 The enemy shall not exact upon him; nor the son of wickedness afflict him.
    23 And I will beat down his foes before his face, and plague them that hate him.
    24 But my faithfulness and my mercy shall be with him: and in my name shall his horn be exalted.
    25 I will set his hand also in the sea, and his right hand in the rivers.
    26 He shall cry unto me, Thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation (rescue).
    27 Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth.
    28 My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him.
    29 His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven.
    30 If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments;
    31 If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments;
    32 Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.
    33 Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail.
    34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.
    35 Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David.
    36 His seed shall endure forever, and his throne as the sun before me.
    37 It shall be established for ever as the moon, and as a faithful witness in heaven. Selah.
    38 But thou hast cast off and abhorred, thou hast been wroth with thine anointed.
    39 Thou hast made void the covenant of thy servant: thou hast profaned his crown by casting it to the ground.
    40 Thou hast broken down all his hedges; thou hast brought his strong holds to ruin.
    41 All that pass by the way spoil him: he is a reproach to his neighbours.
    42 Thou hast set up the right hand of his adversaries; thou hast made all his enemies to rejoice.
    43 Thou hast also turned the edge of his sword, and hast not made him to stand in the battle.
    44 Thou hast made his glory to cease, and cast his throne down to the ground.
    45 The days of his youth hast thou shortened: thou hast covered him with shame. Selah.
    46 How long, LORD? wilt thou hide thyself for ever? shall thy wrath burn like fire?
    47 Remember how short my time is: wherefore hast thou made all men in vain?
    48 What man is he that liveth, and shall not see death? shall he deliver his soul from the hand of the grave? Selah.
    49 LORD, where are thy former lovingkindnesses, which thou swarest unto David in thy truth?
    50 Remember, LORD, the reproach of thy servants; how I do bear in my bosom the reproach of all the mighty people;
    51 Wherewith thine enemies have reproached, O LORD; wherewith they have reproached the footsteps of thine anointed.
    52 Blessed be the LORD for evermore. Amen, and Amen.
    KJV

    Psalm 110:4-7
    4 The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.
    5 The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath.
    6 He shall judge among the heathen, he shall fill the places with the dead bodies; he shall wound the heads over many countries.
    7 He shall drink of the brook in the way: therefore shall he lift up the head.
    KJV

    Psalm 125:1-2
    1 They that trust in the LORD shall be as mount Zion, which cannot be removed, but abideth for ever.
    2 As the mountains are round about Jerusalem, so the LORD is round about his people from henceforth even for ever.
    KJV

    Ecclesiastes 1:4
    4 One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.
    KJV

    Isaiah 66:22-23
    22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
    23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
    KJV


    Time goes on!
     
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  15. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    So it would seem...but not if we keep in the proper context.

    For example, if I gave you a book, an exceedingly long story of many generations, and told you it was yours "forever"...it would indeed be yours forever, and yet the story itself would have a beginning and an end - which is also scriptural. So...in the way that you have laid it out, it cannot be completely reconciled with scripture.

    But even among the scripture, what I have said, can be seen. With David for instance, the "forever" promise does not mean that David's earthly kingdom would continue forever...but was rather a foretelling of the timeless and eternal kingdom of Christ. This is why Jesus asked how it is that the Christ is the son of David.

    What I have said is true.
     
  16. Retrobyter

    Retrobyter Well-Known Member

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    Shalom, ScottA.

    No, what you have said is a PARTIAL truth! (Which is a lie, unfortunately.) David's earthly kingdom WILL continue forever! Don't you understand that "Christ" is just the Greek translation of "Messiah?" And, "MESSIAH" ("MASHIYACH," spelled "mem-shin-yod-chet" in Hebrew) is the root since it was from THAT word that "Christ" was translated! (There's no such thing as a "timeless and eternal kingdom of Christ.") There IS a thing such as an "eternal Kingdom of the Ultimate Messiah going on through time forever!"

    You are jumping to some sort of "conclusion" that there is no time in the "spiritual world" or the future or whatever. But, simple physics says that we live in a space-mass-time continuum! ANY occurrence of a body with mass moving through space measures time! Without time, there is no movement! God is NOT STATIC! He is DYNAMIC! While He Himself never changes, He INVOKES CHANGES in others! It's found in the simple velocity statement, v=ma, and velocity is measured in "distance (space) per time!" What? Do you think you're going to be FROZEN IN BLISS for eternity?!!! YUK!

    It's time to come back down to earth - the NEW Earth, in fact - and find that THAT Earth is your eternal Home!
     
  17. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    You are speaking as one of the world. "Space-mass-time" are scripturally "nothing", and there is no salvation of the flesh which is condemned to death, but must be born again of the spirit - which is timeless, just as God is spirit and timeless. Your perception is out of context. What is of the world, is of the world, and what is of the spirit, is spirit, and not of the world.
     
  18. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    Yes. All things, including scripture, come in parables and are a fore-shadowing of the truth on high - and it has been given to the children of God to see it.
     
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