made to believe and what to believe

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DPMartin

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when born into the world we are made to believe, this that and the other about anything known or unknown to man, that can occupy the thoughts of man, but the Lord our God is what to believe, is what to know, and is what is to occupy our thoughts every day, if this were not true then why would Jesus say that the Father's work is to believe, believe on Him who He had sent? and Him who He had sent is Jesus Christ the Word of God made flesh. the Truth of God come into the flesh, or Son of man, the condemned. the Son of man was condemned to death was He not? do we not declare the Cross?

so, it was the condemned who condemned the sinless man (Son of man), but the same sinless man (Son of man) condemned no one. therefore, who has the right to condemn?


our job is not to condemn, but to believe, in the hopes that God might Glorify Himself in us, via His Mercy, Healing, acceptance of repentance, and the removal of the accuser of God's people.
 

DPMartin

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nice. imo you are using the term "believe" here as a synonym for "have faith," is that right?

usually when one believes something or someone they trust the same, faith is simply belief and or trust that something is the truth or true. Hence what belongs to the Word of God because it is the Truth.
 
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bbyrd009

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usually when one believes something or someone they trust the same, faith is simply belief and or trust that something is the truth or true. Hence what belongs to the Word of God because it is the Truth.
i'm not even sure why i dislike this definition--disregarding that you cannot quote any absolute truth from the Book, which is not Word anyway--but i guess it is because i have beliefs that may or may not be true--Rapture might be a good example--but whether these culminate in the manner i understand them or not really does not affect my faith.
 
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DPMartin

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i'm not even sure why i dislike this definition--disregarding that you cannot quote any absolute truth from the Book, which is not Word anyway--but i guess it is because i have beliefs that may or may not be true--Rapture might be a good example--but whether these culminate in the manner i understand them or not really does not affect my faith.
what book? if you mean the bible its a documentation of those who have had a relationship with the Almighty, a testimony to that effect, this is what God said and did, though many do make it out to be much more then that. but make no mistake God's Word is absolute, therefore will be fulfilled according to God's will who had spoken it.

one must separate men's theology and God's Word, in the case of Christianity, Jesus is the fulfillment of God's Word to mankind in the flesh to God's satisfaction. therefore the only true interpretation of God's will for man, in His relationship with man. and those who don't believe don't receive what was given freely at the Cross.
 
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bbyrd009

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and those who don't believe don't receive what was given freely at the Cross.
what i can't help but hear in this statement, though, is that people who do not share the vernacular may be considered unacceptable, when they might just be a First Son of the Vineyard Owner. Iow it is easy to reject those who may have a perfectly acceptable spiritual grasp of Christ simply because they do not "believe in Jesus."
 

DPMartin

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what i can't help but hear in this statement, though, is that people who do not share the vernacular may be considered unacceptable, when they might just be a First Son of the Vineyard Owner. Iow it is easy to reject those who may have a perfectly acceptable spiritual grasp of Christ simply because they do not "believe in Jesus."


I see you call yourself Christian, but to be Christian one must believe that Jesus Christ of Nazareth is the "First Son" as you put it, the Son of God. and this is what the Son of God has to say to that subject you mention:


Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

therefore how can you be speaking of what is truth and righteous, if you lie to use of what you call your faith.

you should understand, Christian are not required to understand what you believe or have faith in, its important to the Christian that he believe on Christ Jesus and what He said and did, and how what He said and did that fulfills the OT. and share that with those who do or desire to.

your beliefs that might be otherwise to the Christian faith condemn you, not me not, the Lord God of Israel in the name of Jesus Christ. God's Judgement is Life, man's judgement always results in death.
 

Job

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There are those who don't believe in Jesus because they've never heard of Jesus. What happens to them?
 

DPMartin

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There are those who don't believe in Jesus because they've never heard of Jesus. What happens to them?


yea but how many have? therefore what happens to them if they don't believe? I didn't decide to wait approximately 3700 yr.'s to bring salvation into the world, nor did I chose to bring it through the sons of Abraham. Adam knew God at one time did he make sure all the following generations understand that God would restore, and that one should trust and have hope? did Noah who was the father of the rest after the flood do so? or did they turn and teach their children to believe otherwise? Noah was still alive when Abram was born into the world, if my memory serve Abram was 50 when Noah past on. that's ten generations after Noah.

hence; you receive the life your parents have or had and were made to believe, what ever that case maybe. when one is born of the Holy Spirit the same applies in the sense that one receives that Life given in Christ and God is what to believe.

who decided to bring a child into the world and who is responsible for what that child should believe, Job? God is to be sot after, and inquired of, correct? man separated himself by his own judgement, and sustains that separation if he rejects Christ. its the Mercy of God toward that brings that message to them, seek God's Mercy for the already condemned and maybe you can put a dent into that group that would otherwise not see God.

the Almighty has chosen correct? just what has He chosen? isn't it the faith belief and trust in Him? then are you saying He can't save them?


and for the record in case your thinking that way, Abraham knew of and knew Jesus he just didn't know His name. so don't think those in the OT couldn't receive salvation. but its still the Son of God and Promise of the Son of God who is Jesus Christ that was and is trusted hoped for and believed in, and how could you have believed if you don't believe the fulfillment of the Promise given?
 

Job

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yea but how many have? therefore what happens to them if they don't believe?
That's not what I asked. I asked about those who have never heard of Jesus. Believe it or not, those people exist today. There are people on this planet that have never heard of Jesus and the Gospel. What happens to those people? Are they condemned for their nonbelief?
 

DPMartin

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That's not what I asked. I asked about those who have never heard of Jesus. Believe it or not, those people exist today. There are people on this planet that have never heard of Jesus and the Gospel. What happens to those people? Are they condemned for their nonbelief?


did you read the rest of the post?
 

Job

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did you read the rest of the post?

Yes and it doesn't address the question.

Are those who don't have a belief in Jesus condemned even though they've never heard of Him?



This question is open to everyone.

l
 
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DPMartin

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Yes and it doesn't address the question.

Are those who don't have a belief in Jesus condemned even though they've never heard of Him?



This question is open to everyone.

l

Job

how is it that you are born into sin and condemnation when you are born into the world, though you've done nothing to be condemned? you received the life that was given you. and no one especially God is obligated to change that, no more then He is obligated to give a dog a cat's life because it might be better. you didn't ask to be born into the world nor are you deserving of anything even your next breath. if God has the Mercy toward you to reveal the Truth to you then be thankful to accept it, and share such with others.


therefore, all get the same, unless they believe the Word of God the same that is God of Israel, and now made flesh in the name of Jesus Christ, but that doesn't mean before Jesus came into the world God's Word wasn't revealed to men and that would be whom ever God choose to reveal His Word to.

you forget what was Abram's father's job when he was alive, wasn't he an idol maker, here is a direct descendant from Noah 9th and he was making idols for others to worship, while Noah and his sons were still alive. so tell me who is it that hasn't heard unless they have been kept in the dark by those they trusted. the Truth of God has always been available to the world, but that doesn't mean God is required to reveal Himself to no one unless it please Him to do so.

if anybody be righteous enough to save his own soul let him prove it to God. as Paul teaches that all men are responsible for seeking out and knowing that God is, and ignorance is no excuse.

if you seek mercy for those who haven't heard then again you might be wise to evangelize the generation given you to live in.
 

Dcopymope

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Yes and it doesn't address the question.

Are those who don't have a belief in Jesus condemned even though they've never heard of Him?



This question is open to everyone.

l

Only those who don't have a proper understanding of what it means to be saved will tell you that those who never would have even had a chance to read a Bible are condemned to the Lake of Fire. This belief only makes God out to be the douchebag many Bible scoffers have been calling him. Revelation boils it all down for us, since it shows us what actually happens and fills in the blanks. If your sins are atoned for by the blood of Jesus Christ, then you are saved from the throne judgement of Revelation 20; if it isn't, you still have a shot at your name being in the book of life based on your every word, thought and action. It doesn't say every single soul not of the Bride of Christ are cast into the fire, it says only those who are not found in the book of life, who will be judged according to their works. This is why Jesus Christ was sent to reconcile his creation to the Father on the cross. He was to pay the ransom for your soul as a get out of jail free card for all who come to repentance so that they don't have to face judgement. In the new heavens and earth, it is made very clear in the very last chapter that there will still be many more people, many more nations and kings occupying the earth who will come and go to eat of the tree of life as often as they will.
 

DPMartin

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Only those who don't have a proper understanding of what it means to be saved will tell you that those who never would have even had a chance to read a Bible are condemned to the Lake of Fire. This belief only makes God out to be the douchebag many Bible scoffers have been calling him. Revelation boils it all down for us, since it shows us what actually happens and fills in the blanks. If your sins are atoned for by the blood of Jesus Christ, then you are saved from the throne judgement of Revelation 20; if it isn't, you still have a shot at your name being in the book of life based on your every word, thought and action. It doesn't say every single soul not of the Bride of Christ are cast into the fire, it says only those who are not found in the book of life, who will be judged according to their works. This is why Jesus Christ was sent to reconcile his creation to the Father on the cross. He was to pay the ransom for your soul as a get out of jail free card for all who come to repentance so that they don't have to face judgement. In the new heavens and earth, it is made very clear in the very last chapter that there will still be many more people, many more nations and kings occupying the earth who will come and go to eat of the tree of life as often as they will.

funny how this line of thinking is, revelations used to justify to others what one wants to believe God is like.

here Jesus says

Joh_3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

and He is the salvation of man, therefore He know who and what is and isn't saved, redeemed restored so on and so forth, the why and why not. how an interpretation of a verse in revelations supersedes what the Word of God in the flesh says, is ludacris.

who cares who or what scoffs, that proves nothing but the rebellious nature of man. man has insisted from the first man to go by his own judgement, hence that not only resulted in death for him, but also all his children who receive the life he gave them, which is his own, in sin and condemnation. you don't see God do you, why do you think that is? you start out in this life in the flesh away from God.

the life one is born of is what God sees you as, so the reason Jesus came that we may be born of the Spirit of God and now God sees you through or as the Life that Jesus has. I didn't make it that way, nor is it my judgmental attitude or some accusation like that. that's the way Jesus says it is, so be it.
 

Helen

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Yes and it doesn't address the question.

Are those who don't have a belief in Jesus condemned even though they've never heard of Him?


This question is open to everyone.

l

With that question, I always fall back on
Romans 1:20
20 "For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse."

On that Great Day, I believe that God will measure each of us by the amount of 'light' which we have each received, and chose to respond to, or not, to walk in with Him.
" To whom much is given, much will be required."


Good opening Post.
 

Dcopymope

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funny how this line of thinking is, revelations used to justify to others what one wants to believe God is like.

here Jesus says

Joh_3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

and He is the salvation of man, therefore He know who and what is and isn't saved, redeemed restored so on and so forth, the why and why not. how an interpretation of a verse in revelations supersedes what the Word of God in the flesh says, is ludacris.

who cares who or what scoffs, that proves nothing but the rebellious nature of man. man has insisted from the first man to go by his own judgement, hence that not only resulted in death for him, but also all his children who receive the life he gave them, which is his own, in sin and condemnation. you don't see God do you, why do you think that is? you start out in this life in the flesh away from God.

the life one is born of is what God sees you as, so the reason Jesus came that we may be born of the Spirit of God and now God sees you through or as the Life that Jesus has. I didn't make it that way, nor is it my judgmental attitude or some accusation like that. that's the way Jesus says it is, so be it.

In courtroom language, if there is no condemnation then it means that I have been found innocent. In the case of the gospel, all charges of my every sin have been dropped, or washed away because they have been atoned for by the blood of Jesus Christ. Therefore, as a believer my soul will face no judgement because Jesus already paid for the ransom. I would hate to be the one that believed not on judgement day. So yes, thanks for proving my point. God tossing someone in the Lake of Fire solely for not believing knowing full well that he could have never heard of the gospel to start with does not make him a just God. The real throne judgement of every soul that believed not will involve far more than them simply not believing, but practically their entire life experience.
 
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mjrhealth

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usually when one believes something or someone they trust the same,
Some can say i believe that roses exist though i have never seeing one, anothe rcan say roses exist because I grow them, teh bible saya

Joh 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

Faith is what it is all about. Knowing God comes after teh believeing bit.
 
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Job

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With that question, I always fall back on
Romans 1:20
20 "For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse."

I believe Paul is making reference to backsliding christians in that verse. In fact, the rest of the chapter is about backsliders and God letting them go.

What are your thoughts? Would you like to hear more?
m
 

bbyrd009

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I see you call yourself Christian, but to be Christian one must believe that Jesus Christ of Nazareth is the "First Son" as you put it
i don't think Christ fits in the parable of the Vineyard Owner with Two Sons, except possibly as the Owner? Have to think about that one i guess
the Son of God. and this is what the Son of God has to say to that subject you mention:


Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

therefore how can you be speaking of what is truth and righteous, if you lie to use of what you call your faith.
because when the parable of the Vineyard Owner is considered, Christ is realized as Light, and i stop caring about whether someone talks right about Jesus, (Second Son), and start recognizing workers in the vineyard who do not even speak my language (First Son). At least imo.