Catholics

[Job]

Why level a stupid, false charge if you can't answer?

I don't know, you do it all the time.

 

[Job]

Now - let Dcopymope see if he can answer it - or anybody else for that matter . . .

I don't know why you're picking on him, I'm the one who first brought it up.

 

[aspen]

Why is it important to nonCatholics to believe that Catholics worship statues? Whenever I see people vehnemently trying to prove an error in another's doctrine, which doesn't fit, it makes me question the intentions of the accuser.

I've certainly misrepresented the doctrines of other churches in order to discredit them, but it only works to convince me that I am right - no doubt, the other person is also convinced; convinced they are right.

The fact is, Catholics and Protestants agree that worshiping objects or anything other than God is blasphemy. Do some Catholics misunderstand the doctrines of their church; they sure do! People are superstitious - Americans worship materialism, consumerism, lucky rabbit foots, the American dream, actors, politicians, religious ideas, the Bible, etc - Catholics and Protestants and Mormons and Jews and Muslims and Atheists are all guilty - if you are a human, you are guilty of misdirecting worship. The answer is not to sanitize doctrine in order to make sure people can't misuse it - for one thing, it's impossible and for another, it is the religious equivalent of employing PC language in order to 'make sure' no one is offended.

If you can die from drinking too much water, you can probably misuse doctrine for your own satisfaction rather than glorifying God.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I don't know, you do it all the time.

Name ONE lie that I've posted on this forum - just ONE.
I eagerly await your response . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

I don't know why you're picking on him, I'm the one who first brought it up.

You BOTH brought it up.

YOU don't appear to be equipped to answer the question - so I deferred to Dcopymope

 

[Job]

Why is it important to nonCatholics to believe that Catholics worship statues?

For me personally, it's about the hypocrisy of the catholic church. The church claims to be the one true church of God, but it continues to harbor pedophiles. Grown men having sex with little kids. Leaders within the catholic church committing unspeakable sexual sins with unwilling children.

This alone disqualifies the catholic church as the one true church.

And the statue thing. You've all made it perfectly clear, you do not worship statues or images. Instead, you ask these things to speak for you. I don't know how that makes it any better.

And that obelisk sitting in the center of St.Peter Square...

o

 

[Job]

I eagerly await your response . . .

You might want to pack a lunch. You're about to be ignored.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You might want to pack a lunch. You're about to be ignored.

And that doesn't surprise me, coming from an uninformed anti-Catholic.
Expecting you to provide an answer for your asinine claim was just too much.

You're a cliché . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

For me personally, it's about the hypocrisy of the catholic church. The church claims to be the one true church of God, but it continues to harbor pedophiles. Grown men having sex with little kids. Leaders within the catholic church committing unspeakable sexual sins with unwilling children.

This alone disqualifies the catholic church as the one true church.

And the statue thing. You've all made it perfectly clear, you do not worship statues or images. Instead, you ask these things to speak for you. I don't know how that makes it any better.

And that obelisk sitting in the center of St.Peter Square...o

You disqualify the true Church because of the sins of some of its members?? That's a pretty pathetic reason to turn your back on Christ's Church. It's a good thing that the early Christian martyrs didn't think of each other that way because they ALL sinned.

As for statues and images - I thought you were just being stubborn when you kept accusing us of asking them to pray for us.
But, now I see that maybe you're just not bright enough to understand that we don't.

As for the obelisk in St. Peter's square - WHY do you think it's there, Einstein??
Take a look at the TOP of it - and what do you see?

Answer: a CROSS, signifying that paganism has been conquered by Christianity.
Good grief - do some homework . . .

 

[aspen]

For me personally, it's about the hypocrisy of the catholic church. The church claims to be the one true church of God, but it continues to harbor pedophiles. Grown men having sex with little kids. Leaders within the catholic church committing unspeakable sexual sins with unwilling children.

This alone disqualifies the catholic church as the one true church.

And the statue thing. You've all made it perfectly clear, you do not worship statues or images. Instead, you ask these things to speak for you. I don't know how that makes it any better.

And that obelisk sitting in the center of St.Peter Square...

o

Thanks for your response. I guess you would have a point about pedophilia if it was only found in the Catholic Church or was taught in Catholic doctrine; or if Catholic leaders invented this evil. Unfortunately, it is found within every institution on Earth and is covered up constantly because it is so difficult to root it out. We all need to be vigilant in confronting and erraticating this evil and care for the victims of predators.

The issue of hypocrisy is true - to be human and profess moral standards is to be a hypocrite. The only way to remove hypocrisy completely is to rid ourselves of morality. Jesus was pointing out the obvious to the Pharisees when he called them hypocrites - everyone knew it because they were human beings, but the Pharisees refused to admit it. Admitting sin is the first step of sanctification. We are all called to recognize personal sin and turn from it when it emerges. Just like it is impossible to stop sinning in this lifetime, it is impossible to avoid hypocrisy - all we can do is admit it and choose to love others.

I've never asked a created object to pray for me.

The oblesk is not used in worship. It would seem that removing the oblesk from your own Washington DC, before removing the much smaller oblesk from your brothers Vatican, might apply here. (That was a joke)

 

[epostle1]

Why do anti-Catholics get so bent out of shape over a picture of the Pope kneeling in prayer?
Would they rather he stand on his head?

 

[epostle1]

I've never asked a created object to pray for me.

Only STUPID people think we ask created objects to pray for us.

 

[aspen]

i think it comes down to dialectics - for some, in order to possess the right opinion, all other opinions have to be fatally flawed. Grasping at straws is justified......

 

[Job]

Thanks for your response. I guess you would have a point about pedophilia if it was only found in the Catholic Church or was taught in Catholic doctrine; or if Catholic leaders invented this evil. Unfortunately, it is found within every institution on Earth and is covered up constantly because it is so difficult to root it out. We all need to be vigilant in confronting and erraticating this evil and care for the victims of predators.

I understand what you're saying and I agree, there are pedophiles in every walk of life. Every denomination has their own problems with sex abuse.

The catholic church has paid out millions in hush money, billions in settlements and they're still harboring criminals.

How can the catholic church refer to itself as the one true of God with this hanging over it's head?

o

 

[Job]

Only STUPID people think we ask created objects to pray for us.

Dude you admitted to it.

 

[Job]

The oblesk is not used in worship. It would seem that removing the oblesk from your own Washington DC, before removing the much smaller oblesk from your brothers Vatican, might apply here. (That was a joke)

It doesn't have to be worshiped. It's an idol and we not suppose to have them.

 

[aspen]

I understand what you're saying and I agree, there are pedophiles in every walk of life. Every denomination has their own problems with sex abuse.

The catholic church has paid out millions in hush money, billions in settlements and they're still harboring criminals.

How can the catholic church refer to itself as the one true of God with this hanging over it's head?

o

There is never an excuse for covering up crimes. However, as hard as it is to imagine, until the 1980s sex crimes against women and children were consistently overlooked, hushed, and paid off. It is the ugly truth. Large agencies like schools, churches, prison systems etc routinely abused vulnerable populations. The larger the agency, the more entrenched the abuse and cover up. Also, the larger the agency, the slower the changes in policy. This is not an excuse, for there is no excuse; it is an unfortunate fact. The Catholic Church is decades behind in its response to this evil. There are still people in leadership that can't fathom this evil inside their own institution (the last two Popes).

The Catholic Church needs to be held accountable and Catholics need to confront their complacency and the impact this abuse and cover up has had on the victims, their faith, and the world.

I have no doubt that Jesus would/will confront all clergy who abuse their power, whatever the method.

As far as the hypocrisy of the Catholic Church, it is clearly visible wherever you see humans at work. It is definitely a hospital for the sick, but the medicine it administers is pure. Jesus is at work in the Church and will overcome all human failings.

 

[Job]

 

[ScottA]

Moses and Elijah don't count? Matthew 17:3

You misunderstand. They are among "the dead in Christ" - of course they count, Christ died for them.

No, that is not what it says. Jesus builds His Church on Peter's personal leadership.
Matthew 16 Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17 And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. 18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
Peter is the focus of the entire discourse.

Peter received binding and loosing authority and the keys as an individual. The Apostles were given just binding and loosing authority, no keys, AS A COLLECTIVE in Matthew 18:18. This is a clear indication of Peter's preeminence.

No, Peter is not the focus...unless you focus on him, which obviously you and the Catholic church have done. But the "subject" is NOT Peter. The subject is (1) who Jesus is, and (2) that Jesus would build His church upon the "rock" that came down from heaven. Notice Jesus did not say upon "you" (Peter), but upon "this rock", that being the One that is not "flesh and blood." So, yes, he is speaking "to" Peter, Peter is "blessed" in the exchange, and Jesus personally revealed to Peter just how it would come about...and then He gave the same keys to all his disciples, making Peter equal with...well, everyone else.

So...you gotta ask yourself: What part of not "flesh and blood", are you not reckoning with here?

 

[Old Man]

Wow! You convinced me! The crosses on Pope Francis' pallium are really smashed down pyramids. I was worshiping pyramids and I didn't even know it!? Huh! (so insulting!)

But seriously, actually the design on the Pope's pallium is called the "cruz patee". The stylized cross has a long heraldic history. Kings and knights. The Templars. Even the Nazis used it. So what?

All archbishops and metropolitans receive the pallium but only the pope's has the nails which signify, of course, the tools of the redemption. The pallium is made of lamb's wool and signifies the wearer's office as shepherd.