Thoughts on Church Unity

[amadeus]

Dear sir,

If the Holy Spirit does not teach contradiction or confusion then why are there 100 contradicting doctrines in thousands of different churches?
All those churches claim to be led by the Holy Spirit.

How do we discern who has the right doctrine led by the Holy Spirit?

Mary

The contradictions and confusions that exist, exist in the hearts of believers who in a measure are double minded. I did explain this in my post #151. You quoted a few lines of that post right above your own question.

Being double minded as James uses it means a person still thinks with his old way of thinking as he did before he ever even thought about serving God. Then when he met Jesus, a second and better way of thinking came to him, the Way that God would think. The trouble them is knowing the difference between the two. I gave my answer to that also, but my point was that it take more than cleaning out the garbage that is already in us from all of the years we have served ourselves our own ways and the ways of the devil.

In addition to cleaning garbage out of the house, the house must also refilled with the good things of God. This results from eating the flesh and drinking the blood of Jesus as per John 6:53. Some might say that is simply done through Holy Communion, but it is more than eating a small piece of bread or drinking a bit of wine. I'll no more on this post so as not to unnecessarily complicate things.

 

[Pisteuo]

Mary, Mary, quite contrary. You've not asked a "legitimate question" yet.

 

[Marymog]

If you have not accused me, then I have no need to answer. Nor will I.

OK... I accuse you of being a tare.

 

[Marymog]

Mary, Mary, quite contrary. You've not asked a "legitimate question" yet.

Hi Pissteuo,

YOU accused me of venom in my post. You provided no proof of that. So when I ask the question "What venom do YOU speak of?" that is not a legitimate question?

Fascinating! That means your accusation must not be a legitimate accusation?

Curious Mary

 

[Pisteuo]

You provide the proof of that in ALL of your posts.
So until you spell my name correctly you will be Harymog or Haryhog. Which do you prefer?

 

[Marymog]

The contradictions and confusions that exist, exist in the hearts of believers who in a measure are double minded. I did explain this in my post #151. You quoted a few lines of that post right above your own question.

Being double minded as James uses it means a person still thinks with his old way of thinking as he did before he ever even thought about serving God. Then when he met Jesus, a second and better way of thinking came to him, the Way that God would think. The trouble them is knowing the difference between the two. I gave my answer to that also, but my point was that it take more than cleaning out the garbage that is already in us from all of the years we have served ourselves our own ways and the ways of the devil.

In addition to cleaning garbage out of the house, the house must also refilled with the good things of God. This results from eating the flesh and drinking the blood of Jesus as per John 6:53. Some might say that is simply done through Holy Communion, but it is more than eating a small piece of bread or drinking a bit of wine. I'll no more on this post so as not to unnecessarily complicate things.

Dear sir,

My heart is not double minded. All my garbage is cleaned out and my house is filled with the good things of God. I went to a Catholic Mass therefor I have eaten his flesh and drank his blood. I have met all your criteria. Since I have met your criteria that means when the Holy Spirit speaks to ME I must be right?

Have you met your own criteria?

Curious Mary

 

[Marymog]

You provide the proof of that in ALL of your posts.
So until you spell my name correctly you will be Harymog or Haryhog. Which do you prefer?

Hi Pisteuo,

I do apologize. I should cut and paste instead of relying on spell check. I am embarrassed.

Now that I have spelled your name correctly are you going to answer?

Harymog is my preference. Since I am about 100 pounds overweight and eat to much Haryhog would be demeaning to me.

Love Mary

 

[Pisteuo]

No, I don't follow D. Pack. Yes I follow the apostles (though I doubt according to you). I can see the venom in your post but likely won't sufficiently be able to show you if you can't see it. And surely wouldn't want to demean you.

 

[amadeus]

Dear sir,

My heart is not double minded. All my garbage is cleaned out and my house is filled with the good things of God. I went to a Catholic Mass therefor I have eaten his flesh and drank his blood. I have met all your criteria. Since I have met your criteria that means when the Holy Spirit speaks to ME I must be right?

Have you met your own criteria?

Curious Mary

My criteria? No, it is God that gives what is needed or not... Not me or any other man.

If you know all of the answers, I am glad that you do. That should simplify the way for you.

As to not being double minded, everyone who walks still in the flesh in this world of men until he is an overcomer as Jesus is/was is still subject to the temptations in world of his own heart as described in these words:

"For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world." I John 2:16

The temptations are still with us in that tempted mind, while the other mind is of the Father. If we never sinned any more at all then perhaps we along with Jesus would have overcome all of the temptations within us and then we would no longer be double minded at all. Jesus was not, but how else has attained that place?

His flesh, is it not the Word of God that we consume? And is that not Jesus Himself?

"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." John 1:14

But for us as we read the Bible or hear someone read it, it is the dead flesh of our Lord until and if it is quickened within us by the Holy Spirit:

But the flesh alone is dead as Jesus was dead on the cross until He was resurrected from the dead. The Bible itself is dead in the Book until it has been quickened [brought to Life] within a person:

What is it that brings the letter of the Bible to Life?

"Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart." II Cor 3:3

"[God] Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." II Cor 3:6

That Life giving Spirit is the Holy Spirit or the Holy Ghost given to whosoever will from that day of Pentecost about 2000 years ago described in Acts chapter 2.

As to whether I have gotten to that place myself, I leave that judgment and work to God who is still working on me.

Give God the glory!

 

[mjrhealth]

So many accusers, and who is teh accuser

Rev_12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

And so we see the hearts of those who call themselves christians

 

[Marymog]

My criteria? No, it is God that gives what is needed or not... Not me or any other man.

If you know all of the answers, I am glad that you do. That should simplify the way for you.

As to not being double minded, everyone who walks still in the flesh in this world of men until he is an overcomer as Jesus is/was is still subject to the temptations in world of his own heart as described in these words:

"For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world." I John 2:16

The temptations are still with us in that tempted mind, while the other mind is of the Father. If we never sinned any more at all then perhaps we along with Jesus would have overcome all of the temptations within us and then we would no longer be double minded at all. Jesus was not, but how else has attained that place?

His flesh, is it not the Word of God that we consume? And is that not Jesus Himself?

"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." John 1:14

But for us as we read the Bible or hear someone read it, it is the dead flesh of our Lord until and if it is quickened within us by the Holy Spirit:

But the flesh alone is dead as Jesus was dead on the cross until He was resurrected from the dead. The Bible itself is dead in the Book until it has been quickened [brought to Life] within a person:

What is it that brings the letter of the Bible to Life?

"Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart." II Cor 3:3

"[God] Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." II Cor 3:6

That Life giving Spirit is the Holy Spirit or the Holy Ghost given to whosoever will from that day of Pentecost about 2000 years ago described in Acts chapter 2.

As to whether I have gotten to that place myself, I leave that judgment and work to God who is still working on me.

Give God the glory!

I do know all the answers. Scripture! It is the God spoken Truth. He has provided me the answers in scripture. And the authority of The Church backs up those answers.

God Bless....Mary

 

[Marymog]

No, I don't follow D. Pack. Yes I follow the apostles (though I doubt according to you). I can see the venom in your post but likely won't sufficiently be able to show you if you can't see it. And surely wouldn't want to demean you.

Dear Pisteuo,

You could never demean me. I have to much confidence.

Please do provide your evidence of my venom since I can't see it.

Mary

 

[Pisteuo]

No. You will provide plenty.

 

[mjrhealth]

And the authority of The Church backs up those answers.

Hmm

1Jn_5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

But so many prefer men and teh flesh

 

[amadeus]

I do know all the answers. Scripture! It is the God spoken Truth. He has provided me the answers in scripture. And the authority of The Church backs up those answers.

God Bless....Mary

How can we argue with what a person already believe that he/she knows? Only God can do that if the person's mind and heart is open to Him. The natural children of Jacob, the Israelites of old closed their minds and hearts to God, except for two men:

"Yea, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel." Psalm 78:41

The scripture contains all of the answers needed, without a doubt, if they can be understood. The authority any church has is only the authority that men have given to it. The accuracy of any answers any such group provides are correct only if God confirms that they are.

Has the Catholic Church ever missed the mark and taught people the wrong things? Ask the first ones who left that church along with or after Martin Luther? If the Catholic Church had all of the truth at that time, then someone misrepresented or taught it wrong so that people went looking elsewhere. What has changed to make them infallible today when they failed like that several hundred years ago?

If the presumption that one church group had all of the correct answers in every situation should prove to be incorrect, those who had followed blinded without question may well have blocked even God's way into their hearts.

 

[Marymog]

Hmm

1Jn_5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

But so many prefer men and teh flesh

I agree with you. What a surprise.

You prefer the truth of the man MJRHEALTH and I prefer The Truth of the men of The Church.

Mary

 

[Helen]

@amadeus " In addition to cleaning garbage out of the house, the house must also refilled with the good things of God. This results from eating the flesh and drinking the blood of Jesus as per John 6:53. Some might say that is simply done through Holy Communion, but it is more than eating a small piece of bread or drinking a bit of wine. I'll no more on this post so as not to unnecessarily complicate things."
Good thought. As we travel through our christian life and come into truth..we do dump overboard the things we learned that were not 'en pointe.' Then Goad leads us on into further deep Light and revelation.

I mentioned "elsewhere" that we have had close friends ...4 in all...who have dumped overboard what they no longer believed to be true...BUT, they did not fill the space with "good things". ( remember I mentioned how they threw out the book of James first..and after that threw out half the bible...) then all of it...then they went totally off the rails...so sad. One really close and dear friend of 30 years walking together in the Lord...ended and died not believing in God at all.

These all jumped into my mind when I read your post...YES, we do need to allow the Lord to fill us ( and any gaps) with His Truth... ✟
.

 

[Marymog]

How can we argue with what a person already believe that he/she knows? Only God can do that if the person's mind and heart is open to Him. The natural children of Jacob, the Israelites of old closed their minds and hearts to God, except for two men:

"Yea, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel." Psalm 78:41

The scripture contains all of the answers needed, without a doubt, if they can be understood. The authority any church has is only the authority that men have given to it. The accuracy of any answers any such group provides are correct only if God confirms that they are.

Has the Catholic Church ever missed the mark and taught people the wrong things? Ask the first ones who left that church along with or after Martin Luther? If the Catholic Church had all of the truth at that time, then someone misrepresented or taught it wrong so that people went looking elsewhere. What has changed to make them infallible today when they failed like that several hundred years ago?

If the presumption that one church group had all of the correct answers in every situation should prove to be incorrect, those who had followed blinded without question may well have blocked even God's way into their hearts.

If the Catholic Church is wrong, who is right? Martin Luther? Amadeus? The Baptist? Calvin?

Were there corrupt PEOPLE in the Catholic Church? Yup. Jesus even had corrupt people around him. So did the Apostles. Was Jesus wrong or the Apostles wrong in their teaching...NO. Bad people in The Church does not equate to corrupt doctrine in The Church. If no one has the "correct answer" then how do we find the correct answer?

Curious Mary

 

[amadeus]

@amadeus " In addition to cleaning garbage out of the house, the house must also refilled with the good things of God. This results from eating the flesh and drinking the blood of Jesus as per John 6:53. Some might say that is simply done through Holy Communion, but it is more than eating a small piece of bread or drinking a bit of wine. I'll no more on this post so as not to unnecessarily complicate things."
Good thought. As we travel through our christian life and come into truth..we do dump overboard the things we learned that were not 'en pointe.' Then Goad leads us on into further deep Light and revelation.

I mentioned "elsewhere" that we have had close friends ...4 in all...who have dumped overboard what they no longer believed to be true...BUT, they did not fill the space with "good things". ( remember I mentioned how they threw out the book of James first..and after that threw out half the bible...) then all of it...then they went totally off the rails...so sad. One really close and dear friend of 30 years walking together in the Lord...ended and died not believing in God at all.

These all jumped into my mind when I read your post...YES, we do need to allow the Lord to fill us ( and any gaps) with His Truth... ✟
.

I believe that many in many churches have thrown away things which conflicted with their blurred vision but have failed to fill the resulting space with what God has.

I live in what people once regularly called the Bible belt in the United States. Maybe some still do, but what I see around me is often worse than what I saw when I lived in California many years ago. In those days you expected to see the garbage of the flesh in San Francisco and Chicago and New York City... but not in Oklahoma.

As a boy living in California I used to visit my father in Oklahoma. My father and my paternal grandmother lived for God as no others that I knew. I loved my mother and she was good to me, but she had no idea of what it really meant to live for God. Now Oklahoma is like California was and both of them are sinking fast into the bottomless pit without God. This did not start yesterday, but long ago when a little here and a little there was so often deemed unnecessary or wrong and was discarded in favor something more palatable to the masses. Never mind what God thought about it. Who cared?

Who cares today!

 

[amadeus]

If the Catholic Church is wrong, who is right? Martin Luther? Amadeus? The Baptist? Calvin?

Were there corrupt PEOPLE in the Catholic Church? Yup. Jesus even had corrupt people around him. So did the Apostles. Was Jesus wrong or the Apostles wrong in their teaching...NO. Bad people in The Church does not equate to corrupt doctrine in The Church. If no one has the "correct answer" then how do we find the correct answer?

Curious Mary

Both the Catholic Church and the reformers who left that church erred in their part. It has always been people who erred. The correct answers only come from God. He really is willing to share them with anyone who is really interested. You won't accept them from Martin Luther or me or the Baptists of the Calvinist and that is OK. Ask of God:

"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?
Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?" Matt 7:7-11

The answer must be found in your own heart as given to you by God. Catholics do have the correct answers at times as do Protestants at times which each of them have received from God. God's people are not bound by the lines that men have established between the established church groups that exist. Probably one of the biggest blockades between believers and God are the walls they have put up between themselves and other believers with slightly or even drastically different doctrines. I answers are to found easily in the 13th chapter of I Corinthians and/or in the sermon on the mount of Jesus. Those words need to be written by God on our hearts without regard to all of the disagreements and foolish debating that occurs daily in the more civilized countries. You are not likely to find such debates in the believers in China or in Haiti.