Jesus is a human being but not the one true God

[bbyrd009]

I guess that is the problem, how many versions of teh bible do you know about, how many "different" religions do we have based on the "bible". there was a reason why we are supposed to be Led by teh Spirit, just that people would rather follow men and religion.

you term this a problem, when it is actually the solution imo, if it is understood. Many will cry LordLord, right--we are not called to convince people that their doctrine is bad imo.

 

[pia]

Doctrine cannot be changed or Christianity will fall.

Oh boy........It never ceases to amaze me just how many really do believe this, and yet it was not meant to be like this.
Only a few times I have heard Jesus say something with a rather emphatic voice, and one time was when He made it clear to me . He said :" I am NOT a religion, but REALITY !".........
Do you recall we are asked to 'rightly divide the word of truth'? I used to think it meant to divide lies from truth, but He showed me I had that wrong also...Truth is to be divided into....Who is this truth for? Believers, Gentiles, Jews? Is this truth purely spiritual or for the world and so on......
You do as you feel you must....I keep saying I cannot make Jesus real for anyone, you must want that for yourselves.
I truly believe that the state of our so called religion is in such a mess exactly because most 'Christians' only ever sprouted scriptures at people, never telling them that Jesus loves them and that they too can have fellowship with Him. Thank God that someone got it at some point, and these days there ARE teachings out there, helping people to realize this.
Can you at least agree with me that there is a difference in having knowledge ABOUT something as opposed to KNOWING something?

 

[amadeus]

No, I was merely pointing out what that word actually means, and I come across people a LOT, who truly believe with everything in them that they are right, because they read it somewhere. I only just found out the true meaning of it a very short time ago.
As far as the rest........You do what you think you must, that's all you can do...It does however concern me a little ( and this is by no means, just you ) that people think of Jesus as what? Braindead? He can't speak for Himself? He has nothing new for anyone? He has been sitting on the throne in Heaven bored out of His skull, with nothing to do for 2 thousand years ? I have zero clue how millions of people declare that they believe in The Resurrected Christ, but mention Him AS Resurrected, well look out, here comes the 'inquisition' ready to take you apart.
You know, there is absolutely nothing I can do to make Jesus real to anyone else......However anyone can, just allow Him in....But when one is so full, of what they 'know' there is no room for Him, nor is He invited to do so.......
I simply won't argue scriptures with you, because Jesus also said :" You search the scriptures daily, THINKING that they give you life, but you REFUSE to come to Me." Remember Jesus IS The Life.
If He couldn't teach without a Bible, how come He could with me, all those years? Even after I got into a Bible. He can do so very much more than you give Him credit for....Why would you limit Him so?
Good luck with it.

Everything good that is in the Bible is in Jesus, for is he not the Word of God? He therefore of course could teach without an open Bible in his hand.

The Bible alone on the other hand is as Jesus was on the cross after he had said, "It is finished" and before he resurrected from the dead. His dead body could be and was quickened [brought to Life] and so it is with the dead words of scripture. They can be brought to Life within you and me the Holy Spirit.

 

[pia]

and so it is with the dead words of scripture. They can be brought to
BY The Holy Spirit yes, NOT however just by reading it imho.
You also rightly said :" Jesus is THE WORD of God.".....whereas many say that the Bible is The Word of God, that is just not right, nor could it ever be.
I remind people that Paul is quoted as saying that "The Spirit gives life, but the written letter kills."....That ought to give people a clue???

 

[pia]

@amadeus
I have no idea why my response to you got this mixed up on the page......
The first sentence was from your post, the rest was my reply, hope you can see how it went.

 

[amadeus]

@amadeus
I have no idea why my response to you got this mixed up on the page......
The first sentence was from your post, the rest was my reply, hope you can see how it went.

Yes, I understood.

 

[pia]

Yes, I understood.

Thanks....I didn't understand what happened lol

 

[OzSpen]

I won't argue any point in the Greek versus the English with you then. Perhaps sometime if I have a question you would be open to provide assistance in your areas of expertise. In another place I know an Orthodox priest whose Greek is very good. He and I have gotten along fairly even though on many points, we most certainly did disagree.

I'll be happy to respond where I have the time. I'm writing an apologetics' based curriculum for religious instruction in early high school (grades 7-8) - you'd call it Junior High. I plan to teach this one hour a week in secular high schools.

In addition, I have to turn a 488pp PhD dissertation into about 50 academic articles. That will keep me busy until the Lord takes me home.

I also teach a mid-week (mornings) seniors' Bible study and have lunch at a local Tavern with some of the group. My local church teaches subjects from Kingsley College and I've been invited to join the faculty. I don't have the time. I'm grateful I'm a touch typist.

And I preach occasionally. For an old bloke, I've never been so busy, and I try to get a little recreation - watching TV rugby league and cricket. The Aussie cricketers have just finished a test series in Bangladesh.

I better quit my raving!

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

ha, give us an unchangeable doctrine then, a for instance

Jesus existed, lived his life in first century Israel, died on the cross, was buried, and rose again.

 

[GodsGrace]

I guess that is the problem, how many versions of teh bible do you know about, how many "different" religions do we have based on the "bible". there was a reason why we are supposed to be Led by teh Spirit, just that people would rather follow men and religion.

Well, actually, there was only one untl the reformation.
The Orthodox split about the year 1,000 AD but they kept all the doctrine and only denied the authority of the Pope.

Protestantism has split into THOUSANDS of churches (counting the non-denominational)
precisely because we do not study and agree of doctrine.

How many have I heard that follow the Holy Spirit? So why doesn't the Holy Spirit teach everyone the same? Why do people come up with their own ideas and theories?

Maybe we SHOULD be depending on theologists who know the original Greek and who have studied the culture of the time and if you listen to them, you would find very few disagreements until the very recent time when Easy Believism has crept into the Church. Wolves in sheep's clothing coming at the end of time when Christianity will be washed down and no longer recognizable from the beginnng times.

We have a poster here who believes Jesus was born a man and became God. I've never even heard of that before. Very original. However incorrect.

So yes. I believe we should attend a denominationa Church who has theologians who understand the bible and teach it in that way.

THEN, whatever message we get from God personally, and I also have gotten one,
That is OUR business and is not to be considered anything to be taught in general.

Lastly, I also say that anything God tells us MUST adhere to what is written in scripture.

Otherewise, we might have another Joseph Smith....

 

[GodsGrace]

He was someone I did not know at the time, brought up in a totally atheist family,......He came, and through that I had to concede that God is indeed real and so is He...he taught me many many things, which church folk years later showed me were in Bibles, so I got one......As I have said before I can't make Him real for anyone else........Reject it if you wish......It does not affect me, to Him alone I stand !

Wow.

It's nice to know that only YOU know our Lord and the rest of us only THINK we know Him.

It was so nice of Him to reveal Himself to you and to no one else.

Do you ever read your posts before pushing the reply button??
We learn when we are humble, not when we think we know everything.

We NEVER know everything.

 

[GodsGrace]

But that is NOT what He died for, to give us.........

??????????????

What DID Jesus die for?

 

[GodsGrace]

ha, give us an unchangeable doctrine then, a for instance

If you want to call yourself a Christian, you MUST believe this:



Apostles' Creed
1. I believe in God the Father, Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth:

2. And in Jesus Christ, his only begotten Son, our Lord:

3. Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary:

4. Suffered under Pontius Pilate; was crucified, dead and buried: He descended into hell:

5. The third day he rose again from the dead:

6. He ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty:

7. From thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead:

8. I believe in the Holy Ghost:

9. I believe in the holy catholic church: the communion of saints:

10. The forgiveness of sins:

1l. The resurrection of the body:

12. And the life everlasting. Amen.

You must believe in God FAther.
God Son.
God Holy Spirit. IOW The Holy Trinity

You must believe that Jesus is a unique (begotten) creature and is GOD.
The word Catholic has a small c and the communion of saints means that EVERYONE who believes in Jesus is the Body of Christ. Alive or "dead".

If one does not believe in the above, the cannot be considered Christian.

 

[GodsGrace]

Oh boy........It never ceases to amaze me just how many really do believe this, and yet it was not meant to be like this.
Only a few times I have heard Jesus say something with a rather emphatic voice, and one time was when He made it clear to me . He said :" I am NOT a religion, but REALITY !".........
Do you recall we are asked to 'rightly divide the word of truth'? I used to think it meant to divide lies from truth, but He showed me I had that wrong also...Truth is to be divided into....Who is this truth for? Believers, Gentiles, Jews? Is this truth purely spiritual or for the world and so on......
You do as you feel you must....I keep saying I cannot make Jesus real for anyone, you must want that for yourselves.
I truly believe that the state of our so called religion is in such a mess exactly because most 'Christians' only ever sprouted scriptures at people, never telling them that Jesus loves them and that they too can have fellowship with Him. Thank God that someone got it at some point, and these days there ARE teachings out there, helping people to realize this.
Can you at least agree with me that there is a difference in having knowledge ABOUT something as opposed to KNOWING something?

I think I made my feelings about what you write very clear in the post to you before this one.

We are NOT people of the book like the muslims.
I can almost gurantee that everyone on the forum knows Jesus in a personal way.
I don't see any "religious" types here from what I've read.
What makes you think Jesus is real only for you?


Come down from your highhorse and join the rest of the Body of Christ.

 

[GodsGrace]

@pia
In post no. 264 you said this:

and so it is with the dead words of scripture. They can be brought to
BY The Holy Spirit yes, NOT however just by reading it imho.
You also rightly said :" Jesus is THE WORD of God.".....whereas many say that the Bible is The Word of God, that is just not right, nor could it ever be.
I remind people that Paul is quoted as saying that "The Spirit gives life, but the written letter kills."....That ought to give people a clue???



This refers to 2 Corinthians 3:6


NASB
who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Interestingly enough, it says that WE are made servans, IOW MINISTERS, of which we cannot be if we do not KNOW the word and do not KNOW JESUS in order to unerstand.

Also, THE LETTER does NOT mean the bible, it means THE LAW and the spirit means the New Covenant of Spirit and NOT LAW as was the Old covenant.

You really do need to read more.

I'm going to do something I usually don't, and that is to attach a link since I know you won't take my word for it. I hope you read it.

*****************************************

• 2 Corinthians 3:5
  
• 2 Corinthians 3:7

2 Corinthians 3:6
Who also hath made us able ministers
This is an answer to the question in ( 2 Corinthians 2:16 ) who is sufficient for these things? no man is of himself; we are indeed sufficient for them, but not of ourselves; our sufficiency is of God, he hath made us able, or sufficient ministers: such ministers as are not of men's, but God's making, are sufficient ones; and none are sufficient but whom God makes so; and those he makes able and sufficient, by giving them spiritual gifts, fitting them for the ministry: and these are ministers

of the New Testament,
or "covenant"; the covenant of grace, of which Christ is the Mediator and surety; called "new", not because newly made, for it was made with Christ from everlasting; nor newly revealed, for it was made known to Adam after his fall, and to all the Old Testament patriarchs, and was exhibited under the legal dispensation, though but darkly, in types, shadows, sacrifices which therefore waxing old is vanished away; and the covenant of grace is now more clearly revealed under the Gospel dispensation, free from all the obscurity it before laboured under; and therefore is called "new", as well as because it will always continue so, and never give way to another covenant: now the Gospel, and the ministry of it, is nothing else but an exhibition of the covenant of grace, its blessings and promises; and the work and business of those who are ministers of it is not to insist upon the covenant of works, the terms, conditions, obligations, promises, and threatenings of that covenant; but to open and explain the nature, promises, and blessings of the covenant of grace: for such who are fit and proper ministers, are ministers

not of the letter, but of the spirit;
which is to be understood, not of any difference between the books of the Old and the New Testament, for a faithful minister of the word may and will bring forth things new and old, out of the one as well as the other; nor of the literal and allegorical, or mystical sense of the Scriptures, as if the latter and not the former was only to be attended to; nor of the difference of communicating the Gospel by letters, and preaching it by word of mouth; since both methods may be used for the spread of it, as were by the apostles themselves; but of the difference there is between the law and the Gospel. The law is "the letter", not merely because written in letters, for so likewise is the Gospel; but because it is a mere letter, hereby showing what is to be done or avoided, without any efficacy in it, or communicating any to enable persons to obey its commands, to give life to its observers, or either to sanctify or justify any who are under it, or of the works of it; it is a mere letter, as observed by an unregenerate man, who only regards the externals of it, being unacquainted with its spirituality. The Gospel is "the spirit"; see ( John 6:63 ) it contains spiritual things, and not things merely natural, moral, and civil, as does the law, but spiritual blessings and promises; it penetrates into the spirit and soul of man, and comes from, and is attended with the Spirit of God. The law is

the letter
that

killeth,
by irritating and provoking to sin, the cause of death, which though not the design and natural tendency of the law, and therefore not to be blamed, yet so it is, through the corruption of human nature; and by convincing of sin when the sinner is killed, and it dead in his own apprehension; and by not only threatening with death, but by cursing, condemning, and punishing with it:

but
the Gospel is

the spirit,
which

giveth life;
it is a means in the hand of the Spirit of God, of quickening dead sinners, of healing the deadly wounds of sin, of showing the way of life by Christ, and of working faith in the soul, to look to him, and live upon him; it affords food for the support of the spiritual life, and revives souls under the most drooping circumstances. The apostle may allude to a distinction among the Jews, between the body and sou] of the law; the words, they say, are (hrwt apwg) , "the body of the law"; and the book of the law is the clothing; and besides these, there is (atyrwad atmvn) , "the soul of the law"; which wise men look into F23.

 

[bbyrd009]

Thanks....I didn't understand what happened lol

you just replied before the "close quote" instead of after, where the cursor originally brought you

like that, which you can see if you go into edit on that post

 

[GodsGrace]

I admit I don't really understand this thread much
He had to be son of man ...in the temptation in the wilderness.
Jesus as a man had to take back all that Adam lost as a man.

I do believe that He was the I AM during His time on earth ...but I also believe that 'when He came' He laid all His power and glory down.
I think this is shown when He said :- "Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to My Father, and He shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?" Matt 26:53 . His own power was laid aside, it had to be...as He was the second/Last Adam while here... He passed the Adam test in the wilderness temptation. He took back victoriously all that Adam had lost...and the death blow to the devil, of that victory was on the cross. ✟

Hi ByGrace,
It's seems important to me to understand this thread.

What it's really asking is:
Was Jesus the Son of God when He was born?

What say you?

(or was He just a human baby that THEN became God?)

 

[bbyrd009]

Jesus existed, lived his in first century Israel, died on the cross, was buried, and rose again.

that is what you believe, but there are other Christians who would dispute this, not that it is a doctrine anyway. You cannot even demonstrate that Nazareth existed as a town in the first century, which it appears that it did not. It was inhabited before then, and after then, but is specifically absent in the first century. Go look.

But that is not a doctrine anyway, so first we would have to clear that up i guess

 

[bbyrd009]

If one does not believe in the above, the cannot be considered Christian.

so you say, yes

 

[bbyrd009]

see how "doctrine" now means "sayings that we stitch into little wall frames, and verbally repeat," all inevitably about some past or future event that we believe happened, or will happen; not at all what Paul meant by "doctrine."