Avenge Our Blood!

[VictoryinJesus]

Well, I am not wrong about the dog. Dogs don't think. They react. And an abused dog or conditioned dog will act accordingly. Dogs don't make a choice, they react as they are programmed.

We as humans made in the image of God are a higher order of beings. But we are not immune to our experiences developing in us characteristics that we carry with us the rest of our lives. And God brings those experiences in our lives for that purpose.

As to being prideful, many times the term 'pride' is used instead of 'brave'. If you are going to a movie with your husband and walking down the street and several thugs attack you with intent to harm and rape you, what should your husband do? Should he say, I'm praying for you honey? God will be with you? And then start praying? Should He ask God to help you and then forgive these men for what they are going to do to you?

If your husband decides to defend you and do all he can to stop these attackers even if it means killing them, is he prideful? It is easier for a man to suffer wrong and abuse when he is the only one involved during the suffering. To have others involved in the wrong will cause the man to react to help or to stop the wrong. Is that prideful...I don't think so. Is that displaying Christ...I do think so.

You ask me what is the model? (Rom. 12:18) comes to mind. "If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men." With some it is not possible.

Stranger

I wasn't speaking of dogs and you know it.

Of course, I would want to be protected. But if three men in the dark overcome and restrained my husband, raped me, and murdered me. I would want the Lord to avenge my death by: through my death, bringing everyone involved to their knees in repentance and knowledge of Him. I would cry out for God to cause my enemies to be brought low and to allow them see Him. A real encounter with the Almighty. I would not want my husband to live out the remainder of his time here in bitterness and unforgiveness. I would pray for him to grow closer to God through my death, and to display forgiveness in a way that brings honour to God. I know it would be hard and nearly impossible. But that is what I would want. It is the only thing that makes sense.

Now you. Three black men meet you in an alley. They beat and kill you. How do you want to be avenged?

I do not liken bravery to pride. They are nothing alike. Bravery sacrifices for another. Don't think I have forgotten that women can also have pride. Women can also be complainers.



Christ is the model.

 

[pia]

Well, I am not wrong about the dog. Dogs don't think. They react. And an abused dog or conditioned dog will act accordingly. Dogs don't make a choice, they react as they are programmed.

I saw a documentary a couple of weeks ago, where they had a dog wired up to a brain scan machine, and people have been so very wrong...dogs and other animals do indeed think, as was shown in the areas of the brain which lit up, and was almost identical to the way human brains light up on that same machine... They also light up in relation to their feelings, just like we do....

 

[DPMartin]

One slight correction. Jesus is the 'last Adam'. Never the '2nd Adam'. It is a common error but needs to be corrected.

Stranger

Jesus isn't an Adam at all but there are those who say second Adam, whatever on what you said.

 

[aspen]

Jesus isn't an Adam at all but there are those who say second Adam, whatever on what you said.

You mean like Paul?

 

[Helen]

1

Jesus isn't an Adam at all but there are those who say second Adam, whatever on what you said.

Cor 15:45 "And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit."

The Last Adam took back what the first Adam lost to the Serpent. Right?

 

[Stranger]

I wasn't speaking of dogs and you know it.

Of course, I would want to be protected. But if three men in the dark overcome and restrained my husband, raped me, and murdered me. I would want the Lord to avenge my death by: through my death, bringing everyone involved to their knees in repentance and knowledge of Him. I would cry out for God to cause my enemies to be brought low and to allow them see Him. A real encounter with the Almighty. I would not want my husband to live out the remainder of his time here in bitterness and unforgiveness. I would pray for him to grow closer to God through my death, and to display forgiveness in a way that brings honour to God. I know it would be hard and nearly impossible. But that is what I would want. It is the only thing that makes sense.

Now you. Three black men meet you in an alley. They beat and kill you. How do you want to be avenged?

I do not liken bravery to pride. They are nothing alike. Bravery sacrifices for another. Don't think I have forgotten that women can also have pride. Women can also be complainers.



Christ is the model.

Well, the parallel has to equate.

I asked, should your husband try and defend you? Or should he just pray for you? It is not about being overcome. It is about what your husband should do. Please answer the question.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

Jesus isn't an Adam at all but there are those who say second Adam, whatever on what you said.

Please go back to Sunday school 101. You are an embarassment.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

I saw a documentary a couple of weeks ago, where they had a dog wired up to a brain scan machine, and people have been so very wrong...dogs and other animals do indeed think, as was shown in the areas of the brain which lit up, and was almost identical to the way human brains light up on that same machine... They also light up in relation to their feelings, just like we do....

I saw a documentary on evolution not long ago. Didn't mean they were correct in their conclusions.

Stranger

 

[pia]

I saw a documentary on evolution not long ago. Didn't mean they were correct in their conclusions.

Stranger

Perhaps a forum discussing the ability of animals to think, would be in order here.

 

[Dcopymope]

Perhaps a forum discussing the ability of animals to think, would be in order here.

Well we know they can think well enough to follow orders and build nests, just don't expect them to ever be able to build anything like this beast:

I have somewhat of a background in aviation, so I really don't see why a thread on the brain capacity of animals is necessary, the evidence shows that there is nothing to discuss. Animals can only do what God intended them to do within the confines of their natural habitat. We are much more than that being the image bearers of God.

 

[pia]

Well we know they can think well enough to follow orders and build nests, just don't expect them to ever be able to build anything like this beast:

I have somewhat of a background in aviation, so I really don't see why a thread on the brain capacity of animals is necessary, the evidence shows that there is nothing to discuss. Animals can only do what God intended them to do within the confines of their natural habitat. We are much more than that being the image bearers of God.

ok

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Well, the parallel has to equate.

I asked, should your husband try and defend you? Or should he just pray for you? It is not about being overcome. It is about what your husband should do. Please answer the question.

Stranger

You are asking me an impossible question to satisfy your point. You know that I would plead with him to defend me. But I hate that about me. It makes me sick to my stomach that I would ask the man I love to forfeit his faith and trust in God, take matters into his own hands, to save my flesh.

Faith=works.

Faith would pray. If we don't believe it. Then why are we here?

 

[Stranger]

You are asking me an impossible question to satisfy your point. You know that I would plead with him to defend me. But I hate that about me. It makes me sick to my stomach that I would ask the man I love to forfeit his faith and trust in God, take matters into his own hands, to save my flesh.

Faith=works.

Faith would pray. If we don't believe it. Then why are we here?

Well, here we are miles apart. You would not be wrong in calling for help from your husband. And he would not be wrong in defending you to his death or theirs. He in no way would forfeit his faith, he would be doing his duty to God in protecting you. Faith does equal works and the works required at this time are your defense.

Stanger

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Well, here we are miles apart. You would not be wrong in calling for help from your husband. And he would not be wrong in defending you to his death or theirs. He in no way would forfeit his faith, he would be doing his duty to God in protecting you. Faith does equal works and the works required at this time are your defense.

Stanger

Maybe not so many miles apart. When I say faith = prayer. It would be to know God's will in that circumstance. That is why it is important to know His voice. Even if I didn't understand. I would listen to the Spirit, and not my own reasoning. If the Spirit tells you to, defend. Then I will not say otherwise. I do read the OT and God's order to exterminate a people. Although I may not understand, I do trust that God works good out of everything He is in.

My husband would say the same thing. Defend. Without question. He would defend. I wouldn't have to plead for him to do so. Sometimes attacks of the enemy is not physical but just as damaging. My husbands family has been attacked. As predicted in God's word. We have been drug before the court, our character brutally attacked, we are told by those with prestige and power that we are scum based off our lack of possessions, our faith is assaulted. We are led to feel ashamed or offended. His children. His grandchildren which are helpless... suffer. My husband watches it in a helpless state, unable to do a thing other than trust God.

He awakes at night in a cold sweat. He tells me that in his mind: he cuts throats, decapitates heads...murders. When the enemy comes at him on all sides: He paces with his jaw locked in fury. I get a man wanting to protect his family from harm. A husband carries the weight of his families pain on his shoulders...the point is...does my husband have to carry that weight alone? Where is trust in God? One of these cold-sweat nights was when he was given:

1 Corinthians 4: 12-14
12 And labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it:
13 Being defamed, we intreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day.
14 I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn you.

God is telling my husband to forgive his enemies.

Stranger, in that moment of defending your loved ones against a physical attack. If the Spirit spoke and told you to do the opposite, to intreat...would you submit?

 

[Stranger]

VictoryinJesus

Well, in the heat of the moment God would have to speak very loud to get my attention. Which He can. I think God would not get me in that situation without already knowing how I would respond. But He who spoke the worlds into existence can certainly speak loud enough to get my attention. And I believe I would listen.

Stranger

 

[DPMartin]

1


Cor 15:45 "And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit."

The Last Adam took back what the first Adam lost to the Serpent. Right?

I didn't say there wasn't a reference to "last Adam" did I? only that some say second Adam, I wasn't quoting scripture in that case, was I? therefore there was no error.

anyway, Adam didn't loss to the serpent, the serpent didn't get the Life Adam lost, did he? Jesus restored us to what was lost and what was lost was the Life Adam had:

Luk 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

the serpent doesn't "win" he remains where he is in darkness where the Presence of God is not. but Satan knows how to loss the life he had in Heaven therefore what he had to say was trusted and Adam lost what he had in the Presence of God. (kind of like if you want to be a loser, then trust what a loser says) so, the Life Adam had and lost requires the Presence of God. Adam lost that relationship or son ship and was left with dust to dust ashes to ashes as the rest of flesh in the earth has, even though he remains a soul.

the serpent didn't gain son ship with God.

now one could argue that Satan gained domination in the world, and that would be true of course, but that is because the world is in darkness without the Light of the world in it. hence those without the Word of God have not the ability to walk in the Lord's Judgements.


Psa 9:7 But the LORD shall endure for ever: he hath prepared his throne for judgment. 8 And he shall judge the world in righteousness, he shall minister judgment to the people in uprightness.

 

[amadeus]

You are asking me an impossible question to satisfy your point. You know that I would plead with him to defend me. But I hate that about me. It makes me sick to my stomach that I would ask the man I love to forfeit his faith and trust in God, take matters into his own hands, to save my flesh.

Faith=works.

Faith would pray. If we don't believe it. Then why are we here?

This, dear sister, is often the problem with hypothetical questions. There may indeed be a time when God would want a believer to use physical means to prevent a wrong, but what we as believers really need to do is simply stay on God's side all of the time by always following the lead of the Holy Ghost when there are no such physical threats to make decisions about...

Then when a real threatening situation does arise, we will then also be led by the Holy Ghost to take the action [or lack thereof] which God desires. Black and white rules were written in the OT by God for Moses to teach the Israelites. What both the OT and the NT teaches is that men cannot in their flesh alone always correctly obey such rules.

Now God through His Son, Jesus, has given the power of the Holy Spirit to use as we are led by the Holy Spirit to assure that we do the impossible. Yes, impossible for man but not for God in man.[see Col 1:27] When people quench the Holy Spirit in them [yes they can do this, but should not] they may then find themselves needing to make a hard decision for God and are unable to do it because they have not learned to listen to and to obey God.

If we do not learn to properly use what God has provided then our mistakes are our own.

 

[Helen]

now one could argue that Satan gained domination in the world, and that would be true of course, but that is because the world is in darkness without the Light of the world in it. hence those without the Word of God have not the ability to walk in the Lord's Judgements.

Thank you for your whole post...just a tiny bit quoted here...yes I like that thought.
You write in ways that " make me think"...sometimes you blast across the hull of the ship and 'really' make me think twice. haha!

I have ALWAYS believed that Satan took away from Adam the Dominion over the earth that he had been given by God. Adam 'gave it up'...and Jesus took back the Dominion and gave it to the church. But I will think more on your post. :)
I liked what you said in - " the Life Adam had and lost requires the Presence of God. Adam lost that relationship or son ship and was left with dust to dust ashes to ashes as the rest of flesh in the earth has, even though he remains a soul."
Very good.

 

[Truth]

note that the plea actually illustrates God's endless Grace though, however; it is the souls that are pleading for vengeance. very much :/

Yes it is the souls crying out from under the Alter, pleading for vindication, they were Slain for His Name sake, so It will be for His Name Sake that they will be avenged, By HIM!

 

[bbyrd009]

Yes it is the souls crying out from under the Alter, pleading for vindication, they were Slain for His Name sake, so It will be for His Name Sake that they will be avenged, By HIM!

so you say, but i am detecting some verbal wrangling in there, and it is the vengeance of men that bothers me.

God seems to be best defined by His Endless Grace, seems to me.
It is people who are all crying for vengeance, right.

I can't help but be minded of an older child applying their own understanding in wreaking vengeance on a younger sibling, until dad has to step in lol