WHAT Is the Trinity?

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GodsGrace

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GodsGrace,

I consider that this is a brief, biblical summary of the Trinity:

trinity-11.gif


(image courtesy Christianity 201)

This is taken from my article, Is the Trinity taught in the Bible?

Here you will find biblical support for the Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God but they are all contained in the one Godhead.

However, the Father is not the Son, the Son is not the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is not the Father (see Bible verses associated with the diagram above).

Henry Thiessen notes that ‘the doctrine of the tripersonality of God is not in conflict with the doctrine of the unity of God. There are three persons in the one essence…. These distinctions are eternal. This is evident from the passages which imply Christ’s existence with the Father from eternity (John 1:1, 2; Phil. 2:6; John 17:5, 24) and from those which assert or imply the eternity of the Holy Spirit (Gen. 1:2; Heb. 9:14)’ (Thiessen 1949:145).

So, how should we define the Trinity?

The definition of the Trinity which has biblical support is: ‘God eternally exists as three persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and each person is fully God, and there is one God’ (Grudem 1999:104).

Oz

Works consulted

Grudem, W 1999. Bible doctrine: Essential teachings of the Christian faith. J Purswell (ed). Leister, England: Inter-Varsity Press (published by arrangement with Zondervan Publishing House, Grand Rapids, Michigan).

Thiessen, H C 1949. Introductory lectures in systematic theology. Grand Rapids, Michigan: Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Company.
Hi Oz
I did see the image in your article.
It is also my favorite and explains the Trinity really well.

I plan to explain the Trinity like this:

Nature: all 3 have the same nature: theos
Attributes: each has His own attribues (Father is not son, Son is not Holy Spirit...)
Order: Father is the HEAD, Son is next and then Holy Spirit. The Son and the Holy Spirit are begotten by the Father. (may need some help with the Holy Spirit)

I hope you join in...
 

GodsGrace

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You are alone on that one...It says clearly- " Whatsoever is not of Faith, is sin."
He had total faith in His Father...Jesus was sinless, therefore He did not fear.

He agonized in the garden because He knew what was before Him, and what He would have to go through. " I believe" (so this is just me talking...) that at that time in the Garden He knew that for probably the first time in His life, The divine anointing would lift from Him...the powerful presence of God would be withdrawn from Him, ...and He probably He felt alone and powerless ....knowing He would go through the cruel death that was ahead of Him as a Man, a sinless man, but as a man. He had to take that Victory Alone.
No fear at all, but sure a great reluctance of the unknown......and the thing that kept Him going at that time we are told Hebrews 12:1-3
"Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the JOY that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
For consider Him that endured such contradiction of sinners against Himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds."
Well as I read the scriptures, that is what I see there. :)
BG

I Always thought of the verse you posted as being a little bit like childbirth.
For the joy set before a woman, she is willing to endure childbirth.

I cannot agree with you. I believe Jesus did experience fear.
First you said He was only agonizing because of the unknown.
Doesn't agony comprise of some fear?

Then you said He didn't fear, but was reluctant because of the unknown.
I see a conflict here in your thinking.

Jesus experienced all the same emotions we have -- nothing wrong with being afraid.
Hebrews 4:15
 

GodsGrace

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Oh, I wouldn't say it cannot be supported by scripture. I am certain that I have previously and probably could again support it with scripture, but this alone would not make it right to anyone but me... if it were right to me. Personal revelations can be from God and therefore correct. But...

Some people find in support in scripture for some very unusual beliefs that contradict other beliefs also based on scripture. This is likely one reason there are 40,000 some Christian denominations.

The Holy Spirit, I believe, is the key to encounter God's truth which is Jesus. Any believer in a measure has truth, but the radical and sometimes seemingly impossible differences occur because people do not have all the truth and they mix some of their own man made misconceptions and/or conclusions. Of course, since they speak in unknown tongues [or LOL they don't], their conclusions most certainly are the correct ones while those other guys are deluded and false. It does go back to what Solomon wrote centuries before Jesus was born in Bethlehem:

"There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death." Prov 16:25

And...

"Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts." Prov 21:2

The key to always being right is to always be His sheep and then listen to all that He has to say and obey when He tells to do something.

How many people say they are His sheep when they are really goats?
A
I know what you mean about supporting scripture...
However, if there is some, you should still post it.
I've never heard of what you're speaking of for instance.
I'd like to see it written down somewhere in the bible...
 

pia

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what do you mean by this?.
In my experience this lady has shown to posses great wisdom and understanding, so I just meant to weigh it carefully with what she had written already...No offense..
 

GodsGrace

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Post #2. "The Arm of God"
picking up where we left off at, what was said by our friend breathofdesire. "God didn't bruise anyone but himself, what no one could do he himself did". God almighty spoke this himself Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me". no one was found to do it, as said. listen to Revelation chapter 5 verses 1-5 "And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals. And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof? And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof". here in Revelation chapter 5 it is supporting what God said in Isaiah 63:5, you might want to make a cross reference here. there was NO ONE WORTHY. heaven and earth, and under the earth was search and no man was found worthy, hence the reason why God himself (THE ROOT) had to come as a man, in flesh, (see Philippians 2:6-8).

now let's look at this "ARM" of God, the ROOT in flesh. the term ARM of God in the bible is God strength or power. it's an anthropomorphism, meaning the attribution of human form or behavior given to a deity to understand its actions. in this action, the "ARM" of God is his POWER in display. remember, God in Isaiah said by his "own" ARM he brought salvation unto himself. so by his ARM, himself in flesh or the diversity or the share of himself in flesh he did the work. and work require POWER, hence the giving of the Holy Spirit, who is Christ standing in the Jordan river, and descended as a dove. just eliminated your 3 person again. remember the POWER of God is Christ, (see 1 Corinthians 1:24). a good example of this ARM/POWER of God at work can be seen and understood in a natural setting of action. the king of Assyria, Sennacherib, invaded Judah, and God intervene. and the POWER of the invading force was it's army, or military force. follow the scriptures and understand the concept of ARM use. scripture, 2 Chronicles 32:1-8 "After these things, and the establishment thereof, Sennacherib king of Assyria came, and entered into Judah, and encamped against the fenced cities, and thought to win them for himself. And when Hezekiah saw that Sennacherib was come, and that he was purposed to fight against Jerusalem, He took counsel with his princes and his mighty men to stop the waters of the fountains which were without the city: and they did help him. So there was gathered much people together, who stopped all the fountains, and the brook that ran through the midst of the land, saying, Why should the kings of Assyria come, and find much water? Also he strengthened himself, and built up all the wall that was broken, and raised it up to the towers, and another wall without, and repaired Millo in the city of David, and made darts and shields in abundance. And he set captains of war over the people, and gathered them together to him in the street of the gate of the city, and spake comfortably to them, saying, Be strong and courageous, be not afraid nor dismayed for the king of Assyria, nor for all the multitude that is with him: for there be more with us than with him: "With him is an arm of flesh; but with us is the LORD our God to help us, and to fight our battles. And the people rested themselves upon the words of Hezekiah king of Judah".

The ARM of Sennacherib, the king, an anthropomorphism, was his army, and here called an "ARM" of flesh, because this is where Sennacherib POWER lay, in his fighting men who is flesh and blood. the power of Sennacherib was his ARMed forces or military. the power is in the weapon that the fighting men, ARMed themselves with, hence the term an "ARM" of flesh. our Lord Jesus is God, his own, ARM, of flesh. are you seeing it now.

now some edification, many have said, that our Lord Jesus could do nothing of himself. John 8:28 "Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things". this is TRUE. as in our example, 2 Chronicles 32:1-8, no ARMY just jump up and start fighting anyone. the military must be AUTHORIZE to engage in a war. notice the Greek word for POWER ,G1849, exousia. it means authority. our Lord did nothing without authority, or being authorize to do something. knowing this go back to our example of the penny on the floor. you authorize your arm to pick up the penny. the way you authorize your ARM is to give it POWER to pick up the penny. listen, 1 Corinthians 1:24 "But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God". as in creation he "wisdom" is God. and in salvation to overcome death as in Revelation chapter 5 it is "HE" the "POWER" or the ARM of God that overcome death. because NO MAN was found to do it but God as a MAN.

re-read this also for edification and digestion. see, as the apostle Paul feed the original church father milk, some. I'm feeding you with strong meat.

be blessed.
Hi 101

Your posts are very good and very right on.
God had to be the One to atone for our sins because no mere human could atone for the sins of which he would have been one.

Excellent post.

John 3:16
 

101G

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Hi 101

Your posts are very good and very right on.
God had to be the One to atone for our sins because no mere human could atone for the sins of which he would have been one.

Excellent post.
GINOLJC, thanks for the response. but let's not stick our heads in the ground and ignore the truth. as it have been admitted, the trinity is hard to understand, no that's a lie. God is not the author of confusion. and the trinity doctrine is confusion.

now let's once again put the trinity to test and see how many PERSON are in it. scripture,1 Timothy 6:15 & 16 "Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen".

now, if he, the Lord Jesus, is the only with immortality then where do this leave your other two person in your trinity. not arguing, just seeking truth. please all these expert in the trinity they can answer the question if they can. see, a lie will not stand, but the truth will always stand.

be blessed.
 

101G

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In my experience this lady has shown to posses great wisdom and understanding, so I just meant to weigh it carefully with what she had written already...No offense..
no offense taken, but may I ask, is she the only one who show to posses great wisdom and understanding? or is that just your own opinion of her.

be bless.
 
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pia

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no offense taken, but may I ask, is she the only one who show to posses great wisdom and understanding? or is that just your own opinion of her.

be bless.
Not necessarily, but I have been in contact with her on and off for more than a decade now, so I know a little more about her. I do try not to jump to conclusions, but am imperfect like all others.... :)
Be blessed in Him
 

101G

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Not necessarily, but I have been in contact with her on and off for more than a decade now, so I know a little more about her. I do try not to jump to conclusions, but am imperfect like all others
true, we're all are imperfect, but that's not what I asked. are you saying the she' the only one with great wisdom. I hope not, God give Wisdom to all of us who ask, meaning in Faith.

be blessed.
 
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GodsGrace

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GINOLJC, thanks for the response. but let's not stick our heads in the ground and ignore the truth. as it have been admitted, the trinity is hard to understand, no that's a lie. God is not the author of confusion. and the trinity doctrine is confusion.

now let's once again put the trinity to test and see how many PERSON are in it. scripture,1 Timothy 6:15 & 16 "Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen".

now, if he, the Lord Jesus, is the only with immortality then where do this leave your other two person in your trinity. not arguing, just seeking truth. please all these expert in the trinity they can answer the question if they can. see, a lie will not stand, but the truth will always stand.

be blessed.
God has immortality.
God is the Head of the Trinity.
Jesus and the Holy Spirit also have immortality because they are OF God Father, the GodHEAD.

Will be posting on this now.
But first,
what does GINOLJC mean?
Glory.....Lord Jesus Christ ??
 

101G

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God has immortality.
God is the Head of the Trinity.
Jesus and the Holy Spirit also have immortality because they are OF God Father, the GodHEAD.

Will be posting on this now.
But first,
what does GINOLJC mean?
Glory.....Lord Jesus Christ ??
LOL, don't be silly GG... (smile). ERROR on your part, the scripture clearly states that the PERSON, Lord Jesus, is the ONLY ONE with immortality. read the scriptures again, 1 Timothy 6:13-16 "I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession; That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen".

who is the King of king and Lord of lords, scripture, Revelation 19:11 "And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS".

LOL, this is the same ONE who is King of kings and Lord of lords in 1 Timothy 6:16 so GG the scriptures are clear and there is no excuse. so once again, the Lord Jesus is the only one with immorality, and that destroys your trinity doctrine.

look, keep on unbelieving is you want, but remember this, Mark 16:16 "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned". now for all those who say Mark 16:16 was added, well, John 3:18 "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God".

I suggest you re-read this post.
 
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GodsGrace

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LOL, don't be silly GG... (smile). ERROR on your part, the scripture clearly states that the PERSON, Lord Jesus, is the ONLY ONE with immortality. read the scriptures again, 1 Timothy 6:13-16 "I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession; That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen".

who is the King of king and Lord of lords, scripture, Revelation 19:11 "And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS".

LOL, this is the same ONE who is King of kings and Lord of lords in 1 Timothy 6:16 so GG the scriptures are clear and there is no excuse. so once again, the Lord Jesus is the only one with immorality, and that destroys your trinity doctrine.

look, keep on unbelieving is you want, but remember this, Mark 16:16 "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned". now for all those who say Mark 16:16 was added, well, John 3:18 "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God".

I suggest you re-read this post.
Re-read your post?

The trinity is understood by studying theology, the study of God, it cannot be gleened only by reading he bible. It took theologians years to finalize the doctrine of the Trinity.

Stay with us.
I'll be back in a bit.
 

GodsGrace

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LOL, don't be silly GG... (smile). ERROR on your part, the scripture clearly states that the PERSON, Lord Jesus, is the ONLY ONE with immortality. read the scriptures again, 1 Timothy 6:13-16 "I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession; That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen".

who is the King of king and Lord of lords, scripture, Revelation 19:11 "And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS".

LOL, this is the same ONE who is King of kings and Lord of lords in 1 Timothy 6:16 so GG the scriptures are clear and there is no excuse. so once again, the Lord Jesus is the only one with immorality, and that destroys your trinity doctrine.

look, keep on unbelieving is you want, but remember this, Mark 16:16 "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned". now for all those who say Mark 16:16 was added, well, John 3:18 "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God".

I suggest you re-read this post.

See the highlighted above in blue.
WHO is the only begotten Son of God?
WHO is God?

Is the above not referring to TWO PERSONS?
Both God?

later.
 

101G

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See the highlighted above in blue.
WHO is the only begotten Son of God?
WHO is God?

Is the above not referring to TWO PERSONS?
Both God?

later.
LOL, see, Ignorance is no excuse, listen, Romans 1:18-20 "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse".

see, when people say the trinity is hard to understand and explain, meaning who is in the GODHEAD, they just contradicted the scriptures of God and called God a Lie. why do I say this, listen to the scripture, "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead see that, EVEN, EVEN, EVEN, his Godhead is CLEARLY understood. and what else he said, "so that they are without excuse".

so yes, later, much later......but be blessed.
 
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bbyrd009

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Jesus sweat blood in the Garden.
He was afraid.
He asked the Father to remove this cup from Him.

As far as the ministry being completed...
Jesus left Jerusalem about half way through His ministry because the Phaisees and Saducees were so upset with Him and he feared for His Ministry.
hmm, not familiar with these. I don't quite get how "fear" has been put across to you as a motivator for God tbh
 
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VictoryinJesus

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Post #2. "The Arm of God"
picking up where we left off at, what was said by our friend breathofdesire. "God didn't bruise anyone but himself, what no one could do he himself did". God almighty spoke this himself Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me". no one was found to do it, as said. listen to Revelation chapter 5 verses 1-5 "And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals. And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof? And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof". here in Revelation chapter 5 it is supporting what God said in Isaiah 63:5, you might want to make a cross reference here. there was NO ONE WORTHY. heaven and earth, and under the earth was search and no man was found worthy, hence the reason why God himself (THE ROOT) had to come as a man, in flesh, (see Philippians 2:6-8).


now let's look at this "ARM" of God, the ROOT in flesh. the term ARM of God in the bible is God strength or power. it's an anthropomorphism, meaning the attribution of human form or behavior given to a deity to understand its actions. in this action, the "ARM" of God is his POWER in display. remember, God in Isaiah said by his "own" ARM he brought salvation unto himself. so by his ARM, himself in flesh or the diversity or the share of himself in flesh he did the work. and work require POWER, hence the giving of the Holy Spirit, who is Christ standing in the Jordan river, and descended as a dove. just eliminated your 3 person again. remember the POWER of God is Christ, (see 1 Corinthians 1:24). a good example of this ARM/POWER of God at work can be seen and understood in a natural setting of action. the king of Assyria, Sennacherib, invaded Judah, and God intervene. and the POWER of the invading force was it's army, or military force. follow the scriptures and understand the concept of ARM use. scripture, 2 Chronicles 32:1-8 "After these things, and the establishment thereof, Sennacherib king of Assyria came, and entered into Judah, and encamped against the fenced cities, and thought to win them for himself. And when Hezekiah saw that Sennacherib was come, and that he was purposed to fight against Jerusalem, He took counsel with his princes and his mighty men to stop the waters of the fountains which were without the city: and they did help him. So there was gathered much people together, who stopped all the fountains, and the brook that ran through the midst of the land, saying, Why should the kings of Assyria come, and find much water? Also he strengthened himself, and built up all the wall that was broken, and raised it up to the towers, and another wall without, and repaired Millo in the city of David, and made darts and shields in abundance. And he set captains of war over the people, and gathered them together to him in the street of the gate of the city, and spake comfortably to them, saying, Be strong and courageous, be not afraid nor dismayed for the king of Assyria, nor for all the multitude that is with him: for there be more with us than with him: "With him is an arm of flesh; but with us is the LORD our God to help us, and to fight our battles. And the people rested themselves upon the words of Hezekiah king of Judah".

The ARM of Sennacherib, the king, an anthropomorphism, was his army, and here called an "ARM" of flesh, because this is where Sennacherib POWER lay, in his fighting men who is flesh and blood. the power of Sennacherib was his ARMed forces or military. the power is in the weapon that the fighting men, ARMed themselves with, hence the term an "ARM" of flesh. our Lord Jesus is God, his own, ARM, of flesh. are you seeing it now.

now some edification, many have said, that our Lord Jesus could do nothing of himself. John 8:28 "Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things". this is TRUE. as in our example, 2 Chronicles 32:1-8, no ARMY just jump up and start fighting anyone. the military must be AUTHORIZE to engage in a war. notice the Greek word for POWER ,G1849, exousia. it means authority. our Lord did nothing without authority, or being authorize to do something. knowing this go back to our example of the penny on the floor. you authorize your arm to pick up the penny. the way you authorize your ARM is to give it POWER to pick up the penny. listen, 1 Corinthians 1:24 "But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God". as in creation he "wisdom" is God. and in salvation to overcome death as in Revelation chapter 5 it is "HE" the "POWER" or the ARM of God that overcome death. because NO MAN was found to do it but God as a MAN.

re-read this also for edification and digestion. see, as the apostle Paul feed the original church father milk, some. I'm feeding you with strong meat.

be blessed.



101, Yes, it is clear throughout the Word that the Lord, Christ, The Son, is the right Arm of God. The power of God. I was so reassured when I first read your post, since it seemed to line up with what God had shown me sometime back about the Arm and the right hand of God. But then, I reread your post. And now I am so confused. I can not have you here to teach me His word. I have to rely on what I believe the Spirit teaches. I could shut this computer down and never come back here to weigh what I think I hear with others say. I could live in my fantasy world and pretty much make scripture mean what-ever I want it to mean. I don't want to do that. If I am being mislead, or operating off of imagination; I want to know it and correct it.

So, how can we hear opposite things, 101?

God is relationship. Everything He designed displays relationship. Even the command for us to love the brethren and carry one another's burdens. I get what you said about evil in another post. God has clearly revealed this. And why evil is there: it's purpose. I see that the LORD from the OT is Jesus(God in the flesh)in the NT. But I am really struggling with your rebuke against the trinity. God is complete. Correct? Lacking nothing. How can He...GOD...be complete within the context of your explanation? No Father. No Son. NO Spirit. No relationship. If there is only God, the LORD...come as flesh and no Trinity: no father, no spirit, Only the Son (GOD) then why do you believe God created us? Are we the relationship? Are we what completes God? Or does He complete us?
 
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VictoryinJesus

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hmm, not familiar with these. I don't quite get how "fear" has been put across to you as a motivator for God tbh

Jesus sweat blood in the garden because He was going to drink from the cup of Gods wrath. He was in anguish over God's coming wrath...he did NOT fear man. martyrs throughout history have went to their death singing hymns. Filled with the Spirit. Jesus was crushed under the weight of our sins. It had nothing to do with fear of nails or a crown of thorns.

Our saviour sweating blood tells us a lot about the magnitude of the wrath that was to be poured out of that cup He drank down for us.

Personally, I also believe His flesh was sweating in anticipation, ready to be redeemed.
 

bbyrd009

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I believe the attempt to understand the Trinity is an honest attempt to "understand" God, as far as we can.
i believe giving Trinity doctrine the force of Law, to be adhered to upon pain of death, should be a pretty good indicator of where it came from, and i am comfortable worshipping a God that i cannot define, myself. But i understand that much of this is cultural, not salvational i guess.

after all, if we were neighbors or something, and you one day changed your position on this, would i even notice?
What change in behavior would a change in position here engender?
think i'll try believing in Trinity on odd days next week and see what happens :)