WHAT Is the Trinity?

[bbyrd009]

click to expand.

...and now our interaction is completely broken, see, i now have to go up and grab snippets anyway, from a different page even maybe

 

[bbyrd009]

"Jesus did not want Himself to be glorified while on earth, but only AFTER the ascension."

so you say, but to God be the glory

 

[bbyrd009]

"Also, as you know, He was afraid that He might be killed before His ministry was completed."

um, no, i don't know this at all, in fact i dispute it most etcetc

when God is your head you aren't afraid of stuff

 

[bbyrd009]

"Thus, the hiding."

ha literal hiding lol, what hiding "I was daily in the synagogue, and you seek Me here?"

the hiding is see and not see Jesus wasn't afraid the Greeks were going to kill Him, they came to worship Him, and He makes the Son of Man speech and "hides" from them, all by way of a reply to "Who is this 'Son of Man?'"

 

[Helen]

"Jesus did not want Himself to be glorified while on earth, but only AFTER the ascension."

so you say, but to God be the glory

Jesus didn't need to want or desire any glory....no one looks for something that they already have. He knew Father would reveal the glory of The Son..which He did on the Mount of transfiguration.

 

[GodsGrace]

GodsGrace, you started this thread. I have read in other threads your hope for serious conversation. I am a hundred percent serious, even if my questions are absurd. I hope you will take me as serious. I look to you guys for correction. So, please, do not hesitate to give scripture that admonishes any wayward notions I have. "I believe" and I will say "I believe" often in this post because I am not calling it revelation but rather, possibly, my error.

You asked about the three: Father, Son, and Spirit which is GOD. I believe it is obvious by His design. If we reduce the Godhead to two: being The Father, The Son, and then The Son as also the Spirit...then there are only Two. Yet, there was two with Christ(the Son) that were always present: The Father and the Spirit.

There are a few times in the N.T. when all three persons are present:

Mathew 3:16-17
Jesus is present, being baptized by John
God is pesent, announcing that He is well-pleased with His Son
Holy Spirit is present, represented by a dove as the Spirit of God

Also, see
2 Corinthians 13:14 and
1 Peter 1:1-2

The above mention all three persons of the Trinity.
So, yes, your deduction is correct.



Christ was born of immaculate seed. I realize this goes against what we are lead to believe: that Mary was immaculate. But Jesus was born of immaculate seed/ from an earthen vessel of flesh (womb of flesh, born into the world as we are). But Jesus also had to be born of an immaculate Womb. From above. There has to be immaculate seed and an immaculate womb. Hence, the Holy Spirit coming to rest on Jesus that began His true ministry. (Immaculate seed and Immaculate Womb) given from above.

Catholics say that Mary was immaculate.
Protestants do not use this word; however, it is biblically supported that Mary was a Young virgin when she married Joseph and remained so until Jesus was born.
Mathew 1:24-25

The Father, The Son, and The Spirit= The Father, The Son, and The Mother. Think of what God asks of Women throughout His Word. To be in subjection. As comforter. As nurturers. The Helpmeet. The unnamed servant. Alongside her husband.

I've heard this before from a respected source.
This can be believed, but it has to remain personal revelation since it's difficult to prove this biblically.
(Genesis 1:26)

I know it sounds absurd: The new city that comes from above is Zion (the new Jerusalem/not of this world) often referred to as a she/her. Reference to breast. Nursing. It is my understanding that she(Zion) is the womb. Yes. A city. But a Spiritual City. If you consider this: Jesus said the Kingdom is WITHIN you; meaning that City/kingdom is Within you (the Holy Spirit). He also said that The Father and the Son would come make their abode with the believer: The Father, The Son, and the Spirit= One. I am not really sure when this takes place, now or within the consummation of the deliverance of the New City. I realize it is crazy since the Church is also the Bride that belongs to Christ.

When Jesus said that the Kingdom is within you He meant it literally.
John 3:3
When a person becomes born again he enters into the Kingdom of God.
The Kingdom of God begins right here on this earth. This is why Jesus preached the Kingdom throughout His ministry and especially so in Mathew chapters 5 to 7, The Beatitudes.

The New Jerusalem refers to the New Earth. This will happen at the end of times.

As to abiding... Jesus abides in the believer. WHEN HE BELIEVES.
John 15:6
But Jesus had to leave here so that the Holy Spirit may come.
John 16:7

Jesus abides in us.
The Holy Spirit dwells in us.
It's all God, both are God, God is both.
We could also say that God is in us.
It is all biblical.

The harlot would be that Spirit against God/ Jezebel/ the city Babylon( an earthly city). The Spirit of darkness that is very evident and working in opposition against God. Yet, used by God to deliver His people from bondage trough much tribulation.

The harlot is that spirit against God.
I can also be a real harlot
1 Corinthians 6:16

I don't understand what you mean by the highlighted above.

I ask you: If there is The Father and The Son... where or who is the Mother? Does there have to be one? Is it possible to be born withwout Mother and Father? Is it Mary. Or is Mary the earthly Mother? If that is the case, who is the Spiritual Mother/Spiritual Womb that gives birth to children from above?

There does not have to be a mother. God is spirit.
John 4:24

It cannot be Mary because she is not God.
Our spirit is born from above.
John 3:5 says that we are born physically and also spiritually when we come to believe. There does not have o be a mother. We receive God's spirit. (again, if you want to believe the Holy Spirit is female, that is personal and there is no biblical support).

Job 25:4-6 KJV
[4] How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman? [5] Behold even to the moon, and it shineth not; yea, the stars are not pure in his sight. [6] How much less man, that is a worm? and the son of man, which is a worm?

We that are born of woman are NOT clean.
We are born with sin.
We BECOME clean when we are born again from above.
When our spirit agrees with God's spirit and wishes to walk with Him.

Exodus 13:2 KJV
[2] Sanctify unto me all the firstborn, whatsoever openeth the womb among the children of Israel, both of man and of beast: it is mine.

Did Jesus Christ open the Spiritual Womb? Zion, that Spiritual City from above? Which we, of Christ, are born of? Is she(the Spirit) within us; the Kingdom: The Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit. Why did Jesus have to leave for the Spirit to come?

Yes. Jesus did open the spiritual womb.
See Mark 15:37-38
When Jesus was on the cross and died, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom.

Only the High Priest could enter into the Holy of Holies which was separated with that veil. Now WE ALL could enter into the Holy of Holies through our High Priest, Jesus. (Hebrews)

PART ONE

 

[GodsGrace]

PART TWO

Psalm 127:3-5 KJV
[3] Lo, children are an heritage of the Lord : and the fruit of the womb is his reward. [4] As arrows are in the hand of a mighty man; so are children of the youth. [5] Happy is the man that hath his quiver full of them: they shall not be ashamed, but they shall speak with the enemies in the gate.

Fruit of the womb? Whose womb? A woman of flesh? Or fruit from the womb of a spiritual woman/ Spirit? Zion. That Holy Kingdom which is Spirit?

You could understand the Whole bible in a spiritual sense.
However, in Psalm 127:3-5 it is speaking of real children.
But, here again,if you start at Psalm 127:1 you see that it is GOD building the house. You might be too concerned with this matter...


Isaiah 49:14-15 KJV
[14] But Zion said, The Lord hath forsaken me, and my Lord hath forgotten me. [15] Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? yea, they may forget, yet will I not forget thee.

This is just making a simple statement.
God will not forget His people even in times of tribulation.


Luke 1:15-17 KJV
[15] For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. [16] And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God. [17] And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

Was John born immediately from both wombs: the physical and Spiritual womb? (I have to add that John was NOT born of the womb but only carried the Holy Spirit as many in the OT was not born yet. They couldn't be because Christ(Jesus) is the FIRST. which makes sense: "For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom(Born)of God is greater than he.")

Very interesting question and one I've not encountered before.
I'd have to say that YES, John HAD to be born of both physical and spiritual wombs. How else could he be ready for such a great task?
Some will refer to Romans 3:23. I'm not saying that John was not a sinner. He had the sin nature like all men and ONLY JESUS did not have the sin nature because He is God.

However, we can say that the Holy Spirit dwelt within John the Baptist from Birth. Did he not leap for joy at meeting Jesus before even being born?
Luke 1:44

What do you believe your last and highlighted sentence means?

John 3:4-6 KJV
[4] Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? [5] Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. [6] That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Easy. We must be born physically. AND SPIRITUALLY.
If we are not born spiritually, we cannot enter the Kingdom of God.
But.....The Kingdom of God starts right here on earth.


John 3:7 KJV

[7] Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

I am sorry. I realize that is a ton of questions. Maybe too many to answer. But I do feel, it pertains to your OP on "Trinity".

Well, whether it does or not, it's nice to discuss.

[/QUOTE]

 

[GodsGrace]

...and now our interaction is completely broken, see, i now have to go up and grab snippets anyway, from a different page even maybe

You're RIGHT!!

I'm sorry about that.
Will no longer DO...

 

[GodsGrace]

"Also, as you know, He was afraid that He might be killed before His ministry was completed."

um, no, i don't know this at all, in fact i dispute it most etcetc

when God is your head you aren't afraid of stuff

Jesus sweat blood in the Garden.
He was afraid.
He asked the Father to remove this cup from Him.

As far as the ministry being completed...
Jesus left Jerusalem about half way through His ministry because the Phaisees and Saducees were so upset with Him and he feared for His Ministry.

 

[amadeus]

You don't know me well enough to know how I dislike going to the Greek.
Not because I don't think it's important for PhD's and theologians because it does help to understand better what is meant.

But because I firmly believe that the translators did the best they could and that the N.T. contains all information necessary for our salvation.

If we really cannot understand something, it must not be too important for the normal folk.

e normal or not?
Indeed, whatever "normal folk" may be...

I agree that the translations contain all that is needed, but I also believe that brain power won't get us what we need. The following is a true story which relates to a couple of things here.

Many years ago [I have been retired for 17 years and it was long before that], a dear widowed sister in the Lord invited my wife and me over for dinner. She had been ruled as border line incompetent by Social Security disability Determination Service. They had found her disabled based on her mental level, but were unable to rule on her capability to handle money. Her case been referred to me for a decision [before I had come to know her personally in the church setting]. In spite of her slowness and limitations, she handled her finances better than most of the supposedly normal and above average people I knew. I made a binding ruling for her as being capable of handling her own money. That is to say, no representative would need to be appointed to handle her money for her. Was she normal or not?

During our conversation with her at the dinner, she casually and innocently let us know that she occasionally had a man friend over for... [you know what I mean here]. My wife and I exchanged glances but left the subject alone. We knew that our pastor would have had a fit over it, but we were not our pastor. This lady was a Christian and loved God better than most other church members that I knew, yet here she had admitted to regularly committing what legalists would call fornication. She really did not have any idea that anyone would think it was wrong. Was she normal? Was she really even a Christian?

While she could read her ability was not adequate to read the Bible with real understanding especially in the KJV which was what that assembly regularly used. Was she normal?

Who could or should judge the lady who was a mother and a grandmother who loved her natural family as well as and God and lived very close to the Lord according to my observations in all ways with the possible exception of the one mentioned. Who should or could condemn her? She's been gone now for several years, but her situation was a real one, rather than some hypothetical question often seen on Internet forums. Again was she normal and was she Christian?

Let God be her judge!

I find that the Greek is used to support beliefs that are not biblcal.
Some attempt to make a Whole verse change meaning by using the Greek.
And most times they'll use Strong's concordance.
I speak 3 languages (and a little bit of a 4th) and I KNOW FOR SURE, that you cannot use a dictionary to speak a lanuguage fluently and as the native speakers do.

So no use going to the Greek.

I agree absolutely. Sometimes the lexicon can help clarify something but among people who not know the original languages, it really cannot and should not, in my opinion, be the basis for a final decision.

 

[GodsGrace]

e normal or not?
Indeed, whatever "normal folk" may be...

I agree that the translations contain all that is needed, but I also believe that brain power won't get us what we need. The following is a true story which relates to a couple of things here.

Many years ago [I have been retired for 17 years and it was long before that], a dear widowed sister in the Lord invited my wife and me over for dinner. She had been ruled as border line incompetent by Social Security disability Determination Service. They had found her disabled based on her mental level, but were unable to rule on her capability to handle money. Her case been referred to me for a decision [before I had come to know her personally in the church setting]. In spite of her slowness and limitations, she handled her finances better than most of the supposedly normal and above average people I knew. I made a binding ruling for her as being capable of handling her own money. That is to say, no representative would need to be appointed to handle her money for her. Was she normal or not?

During our conversation with her at the dinner, she casually and innocently let us know that she occasionally had a man friend over for... [you know what I mean here]. My wife and I exchanged glances but left the subject alone. We knew that our pastor would have had a fit over it, but we were not our pastor. This lady was a Christian and loved God better than most other church members that I knew, yet here she had admitted to regularly committing what legalists would call fornication. She really did not have any idea that anyone would think it was wrong. Was she normal? Was she really even a Christian?

While she could read her ability was not adequate to read the Bible with real understanding especially in the KJV which was what that assembly regularly used. Was she normal?

Who could or should judge the lady who was a mother and a grandmother who loved her natural family as well as and God and lived very close to the Lord according to my observations in all ways with the possible exception of the one mentioned. Who should or could condemn her? She's been gone now for several years, but her situation was a real one, rather than some hypothetical question often seen on Internet forums. Again was she normal and was she Christian?

Let God be her judge!



I agree absolutely. Sometimes the lexicon can help clarify something but among people who not know the original languages, it really cannot and should not, in my opinion, be the basis for a final decision.

Yes. WE are the normal folk. By this I mean that I certainly don't have a PhD in theology and most probably most here don't. This is what I mean by "normal".

They say that NORMAL is what the majority of people do.
Go figure that one out...

As for your woman friend...
We all sin. Let the first one without sin cast the first stone.
I'm with you.
I'm happy I'm not the judge.
I will say this... God is Love and God is merciful and Jesus covers for our sins. or we're all lost.

 

[Helen]

Jesus sweat blood in the Garden.
He was afraid.
He asked the Father to remove this cup from Him.

As far as the ministry being completed...
Jesus left Jerusalem about half way through His ministry because the Phaisees and Saducees were so upset with Him and he feared for His Ministry.

You are alone on that one...It says clearly- " Whatsoever is not of Faith, is sin."
He had total faith in His Father...Jesus was sinless, therefore He did not fear.

He agonized in the garden because He knew what was before Him, and what He would have to go through. " I believe" (so this is just me talking...) that at that time in the Garden He knew that for probably the first time in His life, The divine anointing would lift from Him...the powerful presence of God would be withdrawn from Him, ...and He probably He felt alone and powerless ....knowing He would go through the cruel death that was ahead of Him as a Man, a sinless man, but as a man. He had to take that Victory Alone.
No fear at all, but sure a great reluctance of the unknown......and the thing that kept Him going at that time we are told Hebrews 12:1-3
"Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the JOY that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
For consider Him that endured such contradiction of sinners against Himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds."
Well as I read the scriptures, that is what I see there.

 

[101G]

"Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the JOY that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
For consider Him that endured such contradiction of sinners against Himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds."
Well as I read the scriptures, that is what I see there.

BG, I hope you don't mind me calling you BG. let's take this a little bit further. another poster
breathofdesire said: in the topic "Satan - who was he in the book of Job?" he said this.
"God didn't bruise anyone but himself, what no one could do he himself did.
The son was just his earthly body, but his spirit was God himself.
It was God hanging up on that cross". I Love this, listen to what he said, "what no one could do he himself did". WOW, that was a brilliant deduction of the TRUTH, (a Peter Moment, he got that from God). yes, God bruise himself. scripture, Isaiah 53:4 & 5 "Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed". now the QUESTION,"who was this that was bruise?" answer the "ARM" of the LORD right. let's go up a few scriptures and see, scripture, Isaiah 53:1 "Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed? For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him". now we know that the Lord Jesus is the ARM of God right. one more. Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me". this is exactly what breathofdesire said about no one could do it but God. listen, "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me". yes, he did it himself. remember this, (because it reveals who sits on the throne and stand at the samr time in Revelation Chapter 5).

Ok BG, the LORD, GOD, said his "OWN" ARM. STOP, and think for a moment, is your ARM a separate entity, or PERSON from you? of course not. is not your ARM is YOU, just like your head eyes and ears and so forth. one other thing. if YOUR hand picked up a penny from off the floor, who, I say, WHO picked up the penny you or YOU ARM. of course YOU, you will say I picked up the Penny. for YOUR, YOUR arm is you. not some separate PERSON or thing acting on it own. are you getting this now?

revelation Time: the Lord Jesus is the RIGHT ARM of God meaning God's "POWER". in the Greek G1411, dunamis. by coming in flesh he's the "objective", or the "concrete" present of the LORD, God, almighty in flesh, right. being the ARM of God, it is God who is doing the "WORK" or his ARM. remember it's you who is picking the penny up off the floor... (smile). began to see it now?. so that flesh, that man is God hanging on the cross, it is "I" as he said in Isaiah who do speak. scripture, Isaiah 52:6 "Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I". let's see who speak. John 8:24 "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins". now who is the "I am he" here in the OT and the NT?.....

I'm going to stop here and let you digest this , and afterward we will clearly show How the Lord Jesus is the ARM of God in "FLESH". remember , 1 Corinthians 1:24 "But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God". in creation he the LORD JESUS is the "WISDOM", the mind (subjectively) of God. but in the NT taking on flesh (objectively) we will see how he' s the "POWER" of God "IN FLESH".

be blessed. I suggest you re-read this post.

 

[Helen]

Thanks @101G I will indeed re read it ..and digest.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

GodsGrace, I am going to try to respond one at a time:
You said:

Mathew 3:16-17
Jesus is present, being baptized by John
God is pesent, announcing that He is well-pleased with His Son
Holy Spirit is present, represented by a dove as the Spirit of God

Also, see
2 Corinthians 13:14 and
1 Peter 1:1-2

The above mention all three persons of the Trinity.
So, yes, your deduction is correct.

Speaking of the dove: (Song of Songs 6) "My dove, my undefiled is but one; she is the only one of her mother ,she is the choice one of her that bare her. The daughters saw her, and blessed her; yea, the queens and the concubines, and they praised her.

Another quirky verse that, yes, I know is of Solomon: Song of Songs 3:11 "Go forth, O ye daughters of Zion, and behold king Solomon with the crown wherewith his mother crowned him in the day of his espousals, and in the day of the gladness of his heart."

Solomon foreshadows the Son(Christ) building the temple (heavenly), and taking the Fathers (David's) throne.

You said: Catholics say that Mary was immaculate.
Protestants do not use this word; however, it is biblically supported that Mary was a Young virgin when she married Joseph and remained so until Jesus was born.

Yes. I don't disagree: Mary was a virgin and was so until Jesus' birth. Yet, Mary was not sinless. If Mary were sinless, there would have been no need for Jesus. Blessed. Yes. Not sinless. or at least that is my understanding.

When Jesus said that the Kingdom is within you He meant it literally.
John 3:3
When a person becomes born again he enters into the Kingdom of God.
The Kingdom of God begins right here on this earth. This is why Jesus preached the Kingdom throughout His ministry and especially so in Mathew chapters 5 to 7, The Beatitudes.

The New Jerusalem refers to the New Earth. This will happen at the end of times.

As to abiding... Jesus abides in the believer. WHEN HE BELIEVES.
John 15:6
But Jesus had to leave here so that the Holy Spirit may come.
John 16:7

Jesus abides in us.
The Holy Spirit dwells in us.
It's all God, both are God, God is both.
We could also say that God is in us.
It is all biblical.

Yes. Christ abides in us. But you have just reduced the Godhead to two: Christ and Spirit. Where three that you began with:
1)Jesus is present, being baptized by John
2)God is pesent, announcing that He is well-pleased with His Son
3)Holy Spirit is present, represented by a dove as the Spirit of God
...I am sorry, now that I read that...it doesn't make much sense. I mean, Father, Son, Spirit.

The harlot is that spirit against God.
I can also be a real harlot (Yes I agree.)
1 Corinthians 6:16

Is the harlot spirit against God referred to as a she/her?
Is the counterfeit spirit a harlot? Why a harlot? why not something male?

There does not have to be a mother. God is spirit.
John 4:24

Yes, but we have already agreed there are three. And we seem to agree there is immaculate seed, and a womb. Scripture says we are born of God, Born of Spirit. So, is there a spiritual womb? Are we born of the Father(immaculate seed) and the Spirit (womb). I am not saying God is female or Spirit is female. I am not even thinking gender. They are One. God. I am saying: I do not know of anything in nature where the male has a womb and delivers a child out of that womb. Is there? Why do we put Him in a box. Today, I was considering daughter-in-law, and how a woman becomes one-flesh with her husband. God is complex and encompassing.

It cannot be Mary because she is not God.
Our spirit is born from above.
John 3:5 says that we are born physically and also spiritually when we come to believe. There does not have o be a mother. We receive God's spirit. (again, if you want to believe the Holy Spirit is female, that is personal and there is no biblical support). But does the Spirit have a womb?


Yes. Jesus did open the spiritual womb.
See Mark 15:37-38
When Jesus was on the cross and died, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom.

Only the High Priest could enter into the Holy of Holies which was separated with that veil. Now WE ALL could enter into the Holy of Holies through our High Priest, Jesus. (Hebrews)

Then how could John the Baptist be born of God? Or anyone else in the OT. If Jesus opened the spiritual womb on the cross then no one before Him was born of God. Filled with the Spirit, yes. But not "born from above". The veil had not been torn until Jesus. That is what I meant by (Luke 7) making sense: For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.
John could not have been born of God yet, since Jesus was the first?! John came before Jesus. To prepare the way. Was John born "from above" and in the kingdom, or did he have to wait until the resurrection? and for the promise?

 

[pia]

You are alone on that one...It says clearly- " Whatsoever is not of Faith, is sin."
He had total faith in His Father...Jesus was sinless, therefore He did not fear.

He agonized in the garden because He knew what was before Him, and what He would have to go through. " I believe" (so this is just me talking...) that at that time in the Garden He knew that for probably the first time in His life, The divine anointing would lift from Him...the powerful presence of God would be withdrawn from Him, ...and He probably He felt alone and powerless ....knowing He would go through the cruel death that was ahead of Him as a Man, a sinless man, but as a man. He had to take that Victory Alone.
No fear at all, but sure a great reluctance of the unknown......and the thing that kept Him going at that time we are told Hebrews 12:1-3
"Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the JOY that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
For consider Him that endured such contradiction of sinners against Himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds."
Well as I read the scriptures, that is what I see there.

Well said, that is a great way of putting it. Many don't even realize what he did go through. I have thought it odd actually that a cross was chosen to signify Him because it says that he despised the shame of it, so we just keep on and on reminding Him of it, and some won't even let Him off that cross to this day...

 

[pia]

Thanks @101G I will indeed re read it ..and digest.

Don't sell yourself short though....

 

[101G]

Don't sell yourself short though....

what do you mean by this?.

 

[101G]

Post #2. "The Arm of God"
picking up where we left off at, what was said by our friend breathofdesire. "God didn't bruise anyone but himself, what no one could do he himself did". God almighty spoke this himself Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me". no one was found to do it, as said. listen to Revelation chapter 5 verses 1-5 "And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals. And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof? And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof". here in Revelation chapter 5 it is supporting what God said in Isaiah 63:5, you might want to make a cross reference here. there was NO ONE WORTHY. heaven and earth, and under the earth was search and no man was found worthy, hence the reason why God himself (THE ROOT) had to come as a man, in flesh, (see Philippians 2:6-8).

now let's look at this "ARM" of God, the ROOT in flesh. the term ARM of God in the bible is God strength or power. it's an anthropomorphism, meaning the attribution of human form or behavior given to a deity to understand its actions. in this action, the "ARM" of God is his POWER in display. remember, God in Isaiah said by his "own" ARM he brought salvation unto himself. so by his ARM, himself in flesh or the diversity or the share of himself in flesh he did the work. and work require POWER, hence the giving of the Holy Spirit, who is Christ standing in the Jordan river, and descended as a dove. just eliminated your 3 person again. remember the POWER of God is Christ, (see 1 Corinthians 1:24). a good example of this ARM/POWER of God at work can be seen and understood in a natural setting of action. the king of Assyria, Sennacherib, invaded Judah, and God intervene. and the POWER of the invading force was it's army, or military force. follow the scriptures and understand the concept of ARM use. scripture, 2 Chronicles 32:1-8 "After these things, and the establishment thereof, Sennacherib king of Assyria came, and entered into Judah, and encamped against the fenced cities, and thought to win them for himself. And when Hezekiah saw that Sennacherib was come, and that he was purposed to fight against Jerusalem, He took counsel with his princes and his mighty men to stop the waters of the fountains which were without the city: and they did help him. So there was gathered much people together, who stopped all the fountains, and the brook that ran through the midst of the land, saying, Why should the kings of Assyria come, and find much water? Also he strengthened himself, and built up all the wall that was broken, and raised it up to the towers, and another wall without, and repaired Millo in the city of David, and made darts and shields in abundance. And he set captains of war over the people, and gathered them together to him in the street of the gate of the city, and spake comfortably to them, saying, Be strong and courageous, be not afraid nor dismayed for the king of Assyria, nor for all the multitude that is with him: for there be more with us than with him: "With him is an arm of flesh; but with us is the LORD our God to help us, and to fight our battles. And the people rested themselves upon the words of Hezekiah king of Judah".

The ARM of Sennacherib, the king, an anthropomorphism, was his army, and here called an "ARM" of flesh, because this is where Sennacherib POWER lay, in his fighting men who is flesh and blood. the power of Sennacherib was his ARMed forces or military. the power is in the weapon that the fighting men, ARMed themselves with, hence the term an "ARM" of flesh. our Lord Jesus is God, his own, ARM, of flesh. are you seeing it now.

now some edification, many have said, that our Lord Jesus could do nothing of himself. John 8:28 "Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things". this is TRUE. as in our example, 2 Chronicles 32:1-8, no ARMY just jump up and start fighting anyone. the military must be AUTHORIZE to engage in a war. notice the Greek word for POWER ,G1849, exousia. it means authority. our Lord did nothing without authority, or being authorize to do something. knowing this go back to our example of the penny on the floor. you authorize your arm to pick up the penny. the way you authorize your ARM is to give it POWER to pick up the penny. listen, 1 Corinthians 1:24 "But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God". as in creation he "wisdom" is God. and in salvation to overcome death as in Revelation chapter 5 it is "HE" the "POWER" or the ARM of God that overcome death. because NO MAN was found to do it but God as a MAN.

re-read this also for edification and digestion. see, as the apostle Paul feed the original church father milk, some. I'm feeding you with strong meat.

be blessed.

 

[OzSpen]

What about the math?
Should it be 1+1+1 = 1 ??

GodsGrace,

I consider that this is a brief, biblical summary of the Trinity:

(image courtesy Christianity 201)

This is taken from my article, Is the Trinity taught in the Bible?

Here you will find biblical support for the Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God but they are all contained in the one Godhead.

However, the Father is not the Son, the Son is not the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is not the Father (see Bible verses associated with the diagram above).

Henry Thiessen notes that ‘the doctrine of the tripersonality of God is not in conflict with the doctrine of the unity of God. There are three persons in the one essence…. These distinctions are eternal. This is evident from the passages which imply Christ’s existence with the Father from eternity (John 1:1, 2; Phil. 2:6; John 17:5, 24) and from those which assert or imply the eternity of the Holy Spirit (Gen. 1:2; Heb. 9:14)’ (Thiessen 1949:145).

So, how should we define the Trinity?

The definition of the Trinity which has biblical support is: ‘God eternally exists as three persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and each person is fully God, and there is one God’ (Grudem 1999:104).

Oz

Works consulted

Grudem, W 1999. Bible doctrine: Essential teachings of the Christian faith. J Purswell (ed). Leister, England: Inter-Varsity Press (published by arrangement with Zondervan Publishing House, Grand Rapids, Michigan).

Thiessen, H C 1949. Introductory lectures in systematic theology. Grand Rapids, Michigan: Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Company.