Salvation loss. Is it possible?

[amadeus]

Salvation is a one time event of putting your trust in Jesus, then after you're saved forever. That's it.

So then since you did not directly respond to my words, I take it you believe that God is a respecter of persons.

 

[amadeus]

@amadeus Hey John, I will keep out of this one..as you know me...I am with him on this one. Haha!!
Maybe darkness in the picture...but not "forever".
There may indeed be 'few' that find the "life more abundantly.." and 'many' who will reap what they sow in this here and now...but God will have His people in the end, and every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord..to the Glory of God.
In other words...we can't have our cake here and eat it later...there is a cross in the life of the true believer. And the Scales will weigh us on The Day.
Well look at me...I didn't keep out after all....I had my two cents.
Be bless John...Kathy too x

Not to worry old friend! I have had too many good people oppose my point of view to hold it against them. A more important thing than anyone's doctrine is Charity as per I Cor 13:4-7...

Thank you for the blessings!

 

[blinkin1604]

So then since you did not directly respond to my words, I take it you believe that God is a respecter of persons.

No. God is not a respector of persons, why would you accuse me of believing that?

 

[amadeus]

No. God is not a respector of persons, why would you accuse me of believing that?

It would seem a likely conclusion since you have left the believers in the OT hanging. Where is their salvation?

 

[mjrhealth]

"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." Matt 7:13-14

One has to enter in before one can be saved, would you not say.??

So many Christians spend there entire life worried about there salvation, because teh world proclaims that God cannot save anyone, we have to do it ourselves.

If it was up to us God would not need a heaven any bigger than Tasmania.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes a believer can stop believing. But that doesn't mean they lose their salvation or they were never saved to begin with, no. You can't lose your salvation. It's once saved always saved. So let's see what the Bible says if you stop believing.

2 Timothy 2:13 (KJV) If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

Wow, so he (Jesus, by the context) cannot deny himself, he can't go against his purpose in mind and one of his purposes or promise to us is that we will have eternal life.

Titus 1:2 (KJV) In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

So, yes someone can stop believing, but they're still saved forever.

It's not a good idea to stop believing though because...

Hebrews 11:6 (KJV) But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

You won't be able to please God. And he's most likely not going to reward you in heaven.

Did you just say a believer can stop believing and still be saved?

To be saved one must believe and have faith.

If you believe and have faith, you're saved.
If you DON'T believe and have faith, you're NOT saved.

It's really easy.

If one cannot lose salvation, please explain Hewbrews 6:4-6
To whom is it addressed?

You say it yourself in posting Hebrews 11:6 !!

And I'm sure you've misunderstood 2 Timothy 2:13 if you think it means that God will stay with you even if you lose faith.

 

[GodsGrace]

Salvation is a one time event of putting your trust in Jesus, then after you're saved forever. That's it.

What if I decide I don't want to be saved anymore?
When we become saved, does God take away our free will?

 

[tabletalk]

I am talking about believing. What does it mean to believe? And can believer in God us stop being a believer?

You seem to be implying that man's will is stronger than God's will. Also, that once someone is made alive in Christ, by his/her own will he/she can become dead in their sins again. We are born from above, not by our own will. Amen.

 

[mjrhealth]

I guess it all comes down to this, of which I seem to be consistently reminded.

Luk 7:39 Now when the Pharisee which had bidden him saw it, he spake within himself, saying, This man, if he were a prophet, would have known who and what manner of woman this is that toucheth him: for she is a sinner.
Luk 7:40 And Jesus answering said unto him, Simon, I have somewhat to say unto thee. And he saith, Master, say on.
Luk 7:41 There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the one owed five hundred pence, and the other fifty.
Luk 7:42 And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave them both. Tell me therefore, which of them will love him most?
Luk 7:43 Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he forgave most. And he said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged.
Luk 7:44 And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest me no water for my feet: but she hath washed my feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head.
Luk 7:45 Thou gavest me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss my feet.
Luk 7:46 My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment.
Luk 7:47 Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.

 

[blinkin1604]

What if I decide I don't want to be saved anymore?
When we become saved, does God take away our free will?

No God doesn't take away our free will. We still have it. But you must understand is that we don't maintain our own salvation. Just like how we can't earn salvation. It's the gift of God. We cannot work to maintain it. So even if we use our free will to do whatever, it's God that keeps us saved, not ourselves.

1 Peter 1:5 (KJV) Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

 

[blinkin1604]

Did you just say a believer can stop believing and still be saved?

To be saved one must believe and have faith.

If you believe and have faith, you're saved.
If you DON'T believe and have faith, you're NOT saved.

It's really easy.

If one cannot lose salvation, please explain Hewbrews 6:4-6
To whom is it addressed?

You say it yourself in posting Hebrews 11:6 !!

And I'm sure you've misunderstood 2 Timothy 2:13 if you think it means that God will stay with you even if you lose faith.

Yes someone can stop believing and still be saved. Salvation is one time. Once for all.

2 Timothy 2:13 (KJV) If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

 

[bbyrd009]

yikes, what a mess

 

[amadeus]

One has to enter in before one can be saved, would you not say.??

So many Christians spend there entire life worried about there salvation, because teh world proclaims that God cannot save anyone, we have to do it ourselves.

If it was up to us God would not need a heaven any bigger than Tasmania.

Perhaps even that is more room than needed. Remember out of 600,000 Israelites [without counting women and children] who were saved out of Egypt, only 2 made it into the Promised Land. The type or shadow message in that should speak to the hearts of people today. But... if people won't believe one who has risen from the grace, why should they believe me?

"And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:31

 

[Helen]

Did you just say a believer can stop believing and still be saved?

To be saved one must believe and have faith.

If you believe and have faith, you're saved.
If you DON'T believe and have faith, you're NOT saved.

It's really easy.

If one cannot lose salvation, please explain Hewbrews 6:4-6
To whom is it addressed?

You say it yourself in posting Hebrews 11:6 !!

And I'm sure you've misunderstood 2 Timothy 2:13 if you think it means that God will stay with you even if you lose faith.

Come, come...Have you never read the story Jesus told of what we call " The Prodigal Son" ( I prefer to call it "The Waiting Father!!" )

The son was still a son...a stinking son, a wayward son, a 'lost' son, for a while...but, he was STILL "a son', nothing could ever changed that!!!

As son is a son is a son...

 

[amadeus]

You seem to be implying that man's will is stronger than God's will. Also, that once someone is made alive in Christ, by his/her own will he/she can become dead in their sins again. We are born from above, not by our own will. Amen.

I believe that God gave us two choices, which are ours, but they must be made as often as a decision is ours to make. The two are follow God or follow ourselves. Each time we choose God rather than ourselves, we may need help to proceed on His Way, but is the Holy Spirit not available?

God did give man the authority to disobey Him. That authority is still ours after we have been born again. A born again person has nothing more than what Adam and Eve had in the Garden of Eden prior to their sin. They could and did sin. So can we! We can limit God because He gave us the authority. He doesn't want us to do it, but we do it nonetheless very regularly.

"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened." Matt 7:7-8

 

[amadeus]

Come, come...Have you never read the story Jesus told of what we call " The Prodigal Son" ( I prefer to call it "The Waiting Father!!" )

The son was still a son...a stinking son, a wayward son, a 'lost' son, for a while...but, he was STILL "a son', nothing could ever changed that!!!

As son is a son is a son...

"If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons." Heb 12:7-8

Also consider this conversation:

"They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. " John 8:39-42

If a person ceases to love Jesus, does he not cease to be a child of God?

 

[Helen]

@amadeus :-

If a person ceases to love Jesus, does he not cease to be a child of God?

NO!! A bastard son is still a son...being a bastard does not un-son him!!

I will die believe this ...I will die with my hands raised high, that God is a faithful Father..
I will die believing that Jesus did everything He said He did.
And everything God sent Him to do.

I would rather, 1) Die believing how I believe about God.....and then, if I am proved WRONG by the Father at the end....I have enjoyed my life of delusion that God is total love..and that He did all this for LOVE....2) rather than die like so many of you do, believing somehow, that God is going to say at the end-
" Yay people...a few saved...and the great majority of people are going to hell. What a wonderful victory..lets eat and party."..and then, horror of horrors, at the end, you all find out that what you believed about God has been totally WRONG....then before God you hang you face in shame, when God says to you...."And this is what you really believed I was and Am, what part of LOVE did you not understand, and what part of love did you not like?"

I am not willing to risk that!!
Too much scripture proves it otherwise.
And yes, we can all "pull the scriptures of choice", and each one will nullify the other..we can say until the cows come home. "So what do you say about this scripture, and what do you say about that?" It works both ways. Been there, done that...many times...it never works.
Do I understand then all NO...do I care...NO!! I trust.
With all the weight of scripture on both side of the issue..yes..BOTH sides..I have
then to go also with my heart, and what I have learned of God's heart, and God's character, to find the balance.

But, like I am always saying....we must all and each, be persuaded in our own hearts, a man stand or falls before his own Master. That is a true saying.

I am not a risk taker...I will not judge God as being what so many believe that He is...I cannot go there...and will proclaim it with my last breath...God is good...God is Love. God is so Mighty, and man is such dust...to charge Him with what so many charge Him...I cannot. He has shown us what he can and has done...with dust!!!
God bless...

 

[Job]

@amadeus :-

NO!! A bastard son is still a son...being a bastard does not un-bastard him!!

I will die believe this ...I will die with my hands raised high, that God is a faithful Father..
I will die believing that Jesus did everything He said He did.
And everything God sent Him to do.

I would rather, 1) Die believing how I believe about God.....and then, if I am proved WRONG by the Father at the end....I have enjoyed my life of delusion that God is total love..and that He did all this for LOVE....2) rather than die like so many of you do, believing somehow, that God is going to say at the end-
" Yay people...a few saved...and the great majority of people are going to hell. What a wonderful victory..lets eat and party."..and then, horror of horrors, at the end, you all find out that what you believed about God has been totally WRONG....then before God you hang you face in shame, when God says to you...."And this is what you really believed I was and Am, what part of LOVE did you not understand, and what part of love did you not like?"

I am not willing to risk that!!
Too much scripture proves it otherwise.
And yes, we can all "pull the scriptures of choice", and each one will nullify the other..we can say until the cows come home. "So what do you say about this scripture, and what do you say about that?" It works both ways. Been there, done that...many times...it never works.
Do I understand then all NO...do I care...NO!! I trust.
With all the weight of scripture on both side of the issue..yes..BOTH sides..I have
then to go also with my heart, and what I have learned of God's heart, and God's character, to find the balance.

But, like I am always saying....we must all and each, be persuaded in our own hearts, a man stand or falls before his own Master. That is a true saying.

I am not a risk taker...I will not judge God as being what so many believe that He is...I cannot go there...and will proclaim it with my last breath...God is good...God is Love. God is so Mighty, and man is such dust...to charge Him with what so many charge Him...I cannot. He has shown us what he can and has done...with dust!!!
God bless...

Averting ones eyes from the truth doesn't make it go away.

o

 

[amadeus]

@"ByGrace" You must stand where your beliefs are and change them when He helps you to change them in you, but more important than our individual beliefs as the scripture makes clear is LOVE or CHARITY as per I Corinthians chapter 13. If we really have that charity and we are really becoming what Jesus describes in the Beatitudes, will God condemn us? I would think not.

Helen as you say here and as I agree the Love is the most important thing. On the other things while we have time left here, we need to continue to pursue them and God may change us on this point or on that one, but the Love/Charity will make us ready at any point in our time up until our last moment to meet the Master and receive His words:

"Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord." Matt 25:21

 

[Helen]

Averting ones eyes from the truth doesn't make it go away.

o

Hi Job...can you tell me how a bastard son is no long a son?
I wait...holding my breath.
You are braver than me to believe in 'the God' that you believe in!!
But, no sweat....the Time is not here yet. We will see where the matter falls.