Salvation loss. Is it possible?

[Helen]

So, if Jesus Christ is flesh and bone...then doesn't that bring to mind a concept that if we can travel long enough and far enough...we can reach a physical haven!!!

If heaven is within and if heaven is a spiritual realm and not a literal physical place..how come 'flesh and bone'...why ?

 

[Dcopymope]

So, if Jesus Christ is flesh and bone...then doesn't that bring to mind a concept that if we can travel long enough and far enough...we can reach a physical haven!!!

If heaven is within and if heaven is a spiritual realm and not a literal physical place..how come 'flesh and bone'...why ?

I don't think its as simple as people make it out to be. People take the "heaven is within" mantra too far. When the Lord returns with his army, the sky literally gets ripped open and God with all the hosts of heaven will come pouring down with ferocity. No change of state is ever described from "spirit" to physical, neither with Jesus or anything else.

(Revelation 19:11-16) "And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. {12} His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. {13} And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. {14} And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. {15} And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. {16} And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS."

(Isaiah 64:1-3) "Oh that thou wouldest rend the heavens, that thou wouldest come down, that the mountains might flow down at thy presence, {2} As when the melting fire burneth, the fire causeth the waters to boil, to make thy name known to thine adversaries, that the nations may tremble at thy presence! {3} When thou didst terrible things which we looked not for, thou camest down, the mountains flowed down at thy presence."

Obviously, there is more to heaven's location than it being from "within", unless people are going to claim that our orifices will be torn apart with the entrance of the host of heaven, or something to that effect. Limiting heaven as if its really "from within" is quite foolish, and taking the Bible too literally where it shouldn't be. This army John speaks of will come through this hole torn in the sky decked in fine clothing as well. Can a spirit wear clothing? Would it need to? I think everyone's concept of what they imagine spirit should be like in their heads is about as carnal as anything I've ever heard. The only thing anyone can say about the spirit realm is that its immaterial unless materialized as has happened in some cases throughout the Bible. Our little pea brains cannot possibly understand the full magnitude of the spirit realm beyond this.

 

[Helen]

@Dcopymope
Thank you for responding. True word...yes this little pee brain of mine cannot grap the half!! LOL
But I live in hope,that one day some of these mysteries will become crystal clear..

 

[101G]

So, if Jesus Christ is flesh and bone...then doesn't that bring to mind a concept that if we can travel long enough and far enough...we can reach a physical haven!!!

If heaven is within and if heaven is a spiritual realm and not a literal physical place..how come 'flesh and bone'...why ?

GINOLJC. first understand that this is a created world, and it came from the spiritual world , which is the REAL WORLD. this is NOT THE REAL WORLD we live in. then you said, "If heaven is within and if heaven is a spiritual realm and not a literal physical place..how come 'flesh and bone'...why ? FIRST CORRECTION. heaven is not in you, you're living in God. scripture, Acts 17:28 "For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring". STOP and think, we're in HIM let that settle in for a moment, and he, (God) is Spirit. the KINGDOM ..... "OF" ... God is in us, not the KINGDOM of heaven, he fills heaven (that kingdom) and earth (this kingdom).

second, you said, "if Jesus Christ is flesh and bone", where did the "IF" come from? did not our Lord say that he is flesh and bone?. no if or but about it. scripture, Luke 24:39 "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have". the Lord Jesus is spirit with a body. he said for a spirit HAVE NOT flesh and bone as you SEE ME HAVE. #1. the Lord Jesus don't lie. #2. the flesh & bone is the IMAGE of God to come in, (see Romans 5:14b). #3. this flesh and bone is the tabernacle of God with MEN.

the apostle Paul clearly tells us, Romans 15:4 "For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope". the tabernacle in the OT (pitched by men) was the foreshadow of God's dwelling place among his people. now that realization have come, another fulfillment of Christ, God in flesh see John 1:14. but as God now dwells in us in these frail bodies (a temporary tabernacle that was pitched, (sowed by human hands), will be dominated by him fully when he comes back, and glorify it with his parousia, meaning making it immortal like his body, Philippians 3:21 "Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself". here the apostle Paul clearly states that Christ have a glorified body, which he did not shed. I suggest one read the commentaries on this verse.

lastly, you said, "then doesn't that bring to mind a concept that if we can travel long enough and far enough...we can reach a physical haven!!!". that's carnal thinking, Romans 8:5 "For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit". how one will look that's carnal minded. and who told you that you're going to heaven anyway? is not the Lord establishing his Kingdom here on earth?

 

[bbyrd009]

When the Lord returns with his army, the sky literally gets ripped open and God with all the hosts of heaven will come pouring down with ferocity. No change of state is ever described from "spirit" to physical, neither with Jesus or anything else.

because the physical part is irrelevant, and it is all about the spiritual, not about the physical even a little bit, becuase that would be like focusing on symptoms and expecting a cause to go away or something. The physical is used as a parable for the spiritual, and also so that the blind might see, or see and not see imo

 

[bbyrd009]

This army John speaks of will come through this hole torn in the sky decked in fine clothing as well.

so you say, but imo keep an open mind there at least, k

 

[101G]

John 6:63 "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life". John 6:55 "For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed".

let's see what meat means here, Hebrews 5:12 "For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. Hebrews 5:13 "For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. Hebrews 5:14 "But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil".

Let's see it clearly, 1 Corinthians 3:2 "I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able".

analog, analogy, analogy........

Milk is not alway good for the body, scripture, Isaiah 28:9 "Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

 

[aspen]

Every human has the choice to fall out of love; only abusers try to keep people who do. Conscious beings can never truly become property

 

[blinkin1604]

It's not possible. Jesus made it very clear.

John 6:47 (KJV) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

 

[amadeus]

It's not possible. Jesus made it very clear.

John 6:47 (KJV) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

And, of course, no one has ever changed what they believed. What was that Adam and Eve believed before they sinned? What did they believe afterward? If you say that things were different then, are you not saying that God is a respecter of persons?

"Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:" Acts 10:34

 

[blinkin1604]

And, of course, no one has ever changed what they believed. What was that Adam and Eve believed before they sinned? What did they believe afterward? If you say that things were different then, are you not saying that God is a respecter of persons?

"Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:" Acts 10:34

What are you talking about? I don't even know what you're talking about lol?

 

[amadeus]

What are you talking about? I don't even know what you're talking about lol?

I am talking about believing. What does it mean to believe? And can believer in God us stop being a believer?

 

[Helen]

Welcome to the forum @blinkin1604 ....what part of Canada?
I am in Alberta.

 

[blinkin1604]

I am talking about believing. What does it mean to believe? And can believer in God us stop being a believer?

Oh okay. Believing on Jesus means to put your trust in Jesus. To fully put your trust in him with all your heart. It means to acknowledge in your heart that God's record is true and that the gospel (death burial ressurection) is true. To trust that he's the only way to heaven, that he's God in the flesh, the only begotten of the Father and that he's the Saviour of the whole world. That's what it means to believe on Jesus.

1 John 5:10-11 (KJV) He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

Acts 16:30-31 (KJV) And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

John 3:16 (KJV) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Ephesians 1:13 (KJV) In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

1 John 2:23 (KJV) Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [but] he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

 

[blinkin1604]

Welcome to the forum @blinkin1604 ....what part of Canada?
I am in Alberta.

Hey ! God bless, I'm in Quebec! Nice!

 

[amadeus]

Oh okay. Believing on Jesus means to put your trust in Jesus. To fully put your trust in him with all your heart. It means to acknowledge in your heart that God's record is true and that the gospel (death burial ressurection) is true. To trust that he's the only way to heaven, that he's God in the flesh, the only begotten of the Father and that he's the Saviour of the whole world. That's what it means to believe on Jesus.

1 John 5:10-11 (KJV) He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

Acts 16:30-31 (KJV) And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

John 3:16 (KJV) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Ephesians 1:13 (KJV) In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

1 John 2:23 (KJV) Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [but] he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

Very good! You answered the question: "What does it meant to believe?', but what about the other question: "And can believer in God us stop being a believer?

Now re-read my post #1310.

By the way, sealing in the natural is what my mother used to do with the vegetables and fruits picked from the plants grown by my step-father. If they were sealed properly, the vegetables and fruits remained edible for years. If the seal was not done right the food within would spoil. Also if a person were break the seal the food within would spoil.

My mother did the sealing using a pressure cooker and jars with special lids, but even though sealed properly she could bread the seal herself at any time she chose to break it. Why would she do that and spoil the food? Why would someone who knew the love of God disobey Him?

Again, re-read my post #1310.

 

[blinkin1604]

Very good! You answered the question: "What does it meant to believe?', but what about the other question: "And can believer in God us stop being a believer?

Now re-read my post #1310.

By the way, sealing in the natural is what my mother used to do with the vegetables and fruits picked from the plants grown by my step-father. If they were sealed properly, the vegetables and fruits remained edible for years. If the seal was not done right the food within would spoil. Also if a person were break the seal the food within would spoil.

My mother did the sealing using a pressure cooker and jars with special lids, but even though sealed properly she could bread the seal herself at any time she chose to break it. Why would she do that and spoil the food? Why would someone who knew the love of God disobey Him?

Again, re-read my post #1310.

Yes a believer can stop believing. But that doesn't mean they lose their salvation or they were never saved to begin with, no. You can't lose your salvation. It's once saved always saved. So let's see what the Bible says if you stop believing.

2 Timothy 2:13 (KJV) If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

Wow, so he (Jesus, by the context) cannot deny himself, he can't go against his purpose in mind and one of his purposes or promise to us is that we will have eternal life.

Titus 1:2 (KJV) In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

So, yes someone can stop believing, but they're still saved forever.

It's not a good idea to stop believing though because...

Hebrews 11:6 (KJV) But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

You won't be able to please God. And he's most likely not going to reward you in heaven.

 

[amadeus]

Yes a believer can stop believing. But that doesn't mean they lose their salvation or they were never saved to begin with, no. You can't lose your salvation. It's once saved always saved. So let's see what the Bible says if you stop believing.

2 Timothy 2:13 (KJV) If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

Wow, so he (Jesus, by the context) cannot deny himself, he can't go against his purpose in mind and one of his purposes or promise to us is that we will have eternal life.

Titus 1:2 (KJV) In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

So, yes someone can stop believing, but they're still saved forever.

It's not a good idea to stop believing though because...

Hebrews 11:6 (KJV) But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

You won't be able to please God. And he's most likely not going to reward you in heaven.

Well my friend if you are right then things are easier than Jesus says that they are.

"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." Matt 7:13-14

If you are wrong, then you had better talk to the Lord about it because you might be in trouble...

 

[blinkin1604]

Well my friend if you are right then things are easier than Jesus says that they are.

"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." Matt 7:13-14

If you are wrong, then you had better talk to the Lord about it because you might be in trouble...

Salvation is a one time event of putting your trust in Jesus, then after you're saved forever. That's it.

 

[Helen]

@amadeus Hey John, I will keep out of this one..as you know me...I am with him on this one. Haha!!
Maybe darkness in the picture...but not "forever".
There may indeed be 'few' that find the "life more abundantly.." and 'many' who will reap what they sow in this here and now...but God will have His people in the end, and every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord..to the Glory of God.
In other words...we can't have our cake here and eat it later...there is a cross in the life of the true believer. And the Scales will weigh us on The Day.
Well look at me...I didn't keep out after all....I had my two cents.
Be bless John...Kathy too x