Satan - who was he in the book of Job?

[tabletalk]

Here's your OP F2F.
Frankly, I don't understand it.
WHO was a mortal member of the community?

Also, I'm getting very tired of those who say that God is mean to us to train us for something or other.

I train my cat. I'm not mean to him.

Maybe if you explained your OP a little more...
I do agree that God allowed satan to have his way with Job.

You must be a saint if you can train a cat!

 

[amadeus]

Work out your own salvation, brother. For my salvation in not in your hands but him who created me.

If I have blaspheme God then let him deal with me, I invite it.

Have I blasphemed God?

I would say, NO! Of course, some people may also speak against me. For that matter they also spoke against Jesus, did they not?

Then we are not quite like Jesus. At least, not yet!

 

[bbyrd009]

I would say, NO! Of course, some people may also speak against me. For that matter they also spoke against Jesus, did they not?

Then we are not quite like Jesus. At least, not yet!

something i notice? is that quite old people, who have mostly gotten silent at that point, also don't really sin much lol. We should recognize that virtually all, if not all of our interaction with others about God lacks the perspective of ninety year olds.

 

[amadeus]

something i notice? is that quite old people, who have mostly gotten silent at that point, also don't really sin much lol. We should recognize that virtually all, if not all of our interaction with others about God lacks the perspective of ninety year olds.

Perhaps physically older people are more likely to be spiritually mature. This of course, is not a hard and fast rule, but when a person has had more years in which to serve God he should have been growing. This means more of Jesus and less of self. Self is what leads us to sin.

In our little assembly where I attend and sometimes preach or teach we have three who are 90+. Our pastor is 92. There are two sisters who are 95. All three are close to God.

 

[bbyrd009]

This means more of Jesus and less of self. Self is what leads us to sin.

yes, that is it, 90 year olds have a humble perspective of "self" that we are not blessed with a voice of much, generally speaking. Their perspective is generally absent. I even see a market for that lol, hmm...

 

[face2face]

They didn't have much knowledge at that time, as indeed a lot of religions do not today. A lot of people still think it is God killing their children and making people sick and so forth....Not ruddy like it !
God is not, nor has He ever been a contradiction to Himself.....

They understand the God is free to discipline as He likes...that is super clear...if you read the book.

 

[face2face]

Here's your OP F2F.

Frankly, I don't understand it.

WHO was a mortal member of the community?

The adversaries identity is not in view nor should it be other than to say they were envious and jealous of Jobs’ piety and prosperity…common even today!

Also, I'm getting very tired of those who say that God is mean to us to train us for something or other.

Mean is not the God I worship but He is severe with His children when required.

How do you understand God’s severity as it relates to the obedient?

I do agree that God allowed satan to have his way with Job.

That’s the issue – the book is clear that God metered out the afflictions to test His servant and to prove to those with envious hearts to be more like Job.

Thanks

F2F

 

[pia]

They understand the God is free to discipline as He likes...that is super clear...if you read the book.

Are you saying that you believe that our Father is capable of using evil to try to teach us something? That would be a grave error...It is one thing to read the Book, another to have understanding ! I suggest you pick up a concordance and look up the word 'evil' and see how many places it makes it clear that is is NOT of or from God, although some of the writers clearly thought so, when they were adamant that there is only ONE God, so therefore He must be both good and evil....Just a lack of KNOWING God and KNOWING His Way, they had an incomplete picture. Jesus did much to try to show them this also...

 

[pia]

But, God would not have called it a 'bad habit'. We really cannot understand even how He loves us without His help!

Because He IS Love, it is His very substance...He showed me that He cannot, but Love ! We may not always see it that way because of how people in the past viewed Him and tried to equate it with all they saw around them.
Also, humans have a way of loving, but His way is a MUCH higher Love, than we can even begin to imagine, but we surely must accept it....

 

[face2face]

Are you saying that you believe that our Father is capable of using evil to try to teach us something?

He uses calamity, trouble or trials...however you wish to call it, even evil as they did, then yes..He does...that's the whole premise of God chastening whom He wills. Hebrews 12:5-11 is a good study, but if you would like examples we could look at many. I don't mind taking you through them. Job is a great example of God chastening His Son and with the reconciliation and redemption which was in Job at the end what a victory! It's a type or ensample of the life of Jesus Christ...and he learned obedience by the things he suffered.

 

[GodsGrace]

You must be a saint if you can train a cat!

LOL
I have a cat that's like a dog.
He's soooo nice.
I trained him not to go in high places, like the table, other furniture, etc.
I trained him to come when I call him because he goes out. (using food)
MY HUSBAND trained him not to sleep on the bed.

So, though VERY LIMITED!, cats can be trained.
But I know what you mean.
You must own a cat!
He's the boss.

 

[GodsGrace]

They understand the God is free to discipline as He likes...that is super clear...if you read the book.

God is free to do as He likes.
But He's LOVE. Can He be divided from His love?

What was Jesus' purpose?
Was it not to make God known to us?
Jesus said that if we saw HIM, we saw GOD.
Did we learn nothing from Jesus' appearance on earth?
John 14:7

I've read the book.
And I find that God is a healing God.
He wishes the best for me.

He would not have created us had He not wanted to love us.
God is Love.
1 John 4:8

 

[GodsGrace]

He uses calamity, trouble or trials...however you wish to call it, even evil as they did, then yes..He does...that's the whole premise of God chastening whom He wills. Hebrews 12:5-11 is a good study, but if you would like examples we could look at many. I don't mind taking you through them. Job is a great example of God chastening His Son and with the reconciliation and redemption which was in Job at the end what a victory! It's a type or ensample of the life of Jesus Christ...and he learned obedience by the things he suffered.

You must be a Calvanist F2F.
You're serving a different God than the one represented in the bible.

 

[GodsGrace]

The adversaries identity is not in view nor should it be other than to say they were envious and jealous of Jobs’ piety and prosperity…common even today!



Mean is not the God I worship but He is severe with His children when required.

How do you understand God’s severity as it relates to the obedient?



That’s the issue – the book is clear that God metered out the afflictions to test His servant and to prove to those with envious hearts to be more like Job.

Thanks

F2F

Job is a book, probably the first one written and oldest in the O.T., by someone who was trying to understand why there is such trouble and heartache in the world.

It must surely be used to teach many things. But that God causes us to suffer to win a bet with satan is not one of them.

It teaches that if we hold firm, as the N.T. shows us, we will be rewarded in the end.
Does it answer the question as to why there is evil? NO. Although many look for the answer there.

God chastises us because we NATURALLY suffer when we do not follow His rules.
Rules and commandments are for our good and our protection. When we break them, we suffer but because of natural reasons.

For instance, if we smoke and mistreat our body, we MAY get some disease.
If we steal, we may end up in prison.
If we covet our neighbor's goods, we will end up jealous and suffer unhappiness.
etc.

God says not to steal because it might get us in trouble.
He doesn't meanly say that since we've stolen HE will get us into trouble.

You say the adversary's identity is not in view.
Who do you think the adversary was?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Part one

This is another one of those post that you won't want to read. I have followed this thread and wanted to post, but knew what I posted would either be attacked or completely ignored. It doesn't matter either way, since I am leaving the board. Call it crazy nonsense if you want. Sometimes we are too comfortable where we are at in our supposed knowledge and we don't want to approach the hard questions. Sometimes, we do not want to expand and leave our comfort zone because it may cost us: it may cost us everything; all the things we think we know...showing us...we really do not know anything.

Speaking of Job: Who is satan? The dragon. It is simple. Satan is the King of the flesh. King of the dunghill. The dunghill Jesus Christ lifts us up out of. This world. Dung. Full of pride. The very thing lodged in the flesh and prodded by the enemy to make us weak. Paul had a thorn (not just any thorn, a STAKE) that jabbed constantly at that old Man pleading with that old Man to awaken and rear up. That is what kept Paul humble: the constant knowledge that without Christ...Paul could do nothing.

This is the LORD's words: If you have a problem with them...take it up with Him.
Addressing Job is in Blue:

Job 41:1-34 KJV
[1] Canst thou draw out leviathan with an hook? or his tongue with a cord which thou lettest down? Can you draw out the Flesh Monster? can you with a cord let down that evil tongue (life and death is in the tongue)

Ezekiel 29:3-5 KJV
[3] Speak, and say, Thus saith the Lord God ; Behold, I am against thee, Pharaoh king of Egypt, the great dragon that lieth in the midst of his rivers, which hath said, My river is mine own, and I have made it for myself. It is not the great dragons river. It is Gods, and GOD makes it clear. [4] But I will put hooks in thy jaws, and I will cause the fish of thy rivers to stick unto thy scales, and I will bring thee up out of the midst of thy rivers, and all the fish of thy rivers shall stick unto thy scales. [5] And I will leave thee thrown into the wilderness, thee and all the fish of thy rivers: thou shalt fall upon the open fields; (a field Christ purchased) thou shalt not be brought together, nor gathered: I have given thee for meat to the beasts of the field and to the fowls of the heaven. (Very important: I have given thee for meat for beast and fowls- the unclean)(CHRIST crucified the flesh on the cross, and gives us NEW MEAT).

Isaiah 37:28-29 KJV
[28] But I know thy abode, and thy going out, and thy coming in, and thy rage against me. [29] Because thy rage against me, and thy tumult, is come up into mine ears, therefore will I put my hook in thy nose, and my bridle in thy lips, and I will turn thee back by the way by which thou camest. The LORD--Christ--has put a hook in the nose, and bridle in the lips of the dragon and all prideful flesh; to draw out that which is against GOD.


Matthew 17:25-27 KJV
[25] He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers? [26] Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free. [27] Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee. (Pay the Dunghill what is owed, the children are free.)

Supporting scripture for dunghill: 1 Samuel 2:8 "He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the Lord's, and he hath set the world upon them."

Psalm 113:7 "He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth the needy out of the dunghill;"


[3] Will he make many supplications unto thee? will he speak soft words unto thee? will the flesh make many supplications unto thee? speak soft words unto thee? oh yeah, our flesh makes supplications unto the LORD.

[4] Will he make a covenant with thee? GOD made a covenant with flesh? Oh, yes He did.

Genesis 17:13 KJV
[13] He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

And what is the covenant made? To redeem it.

Genesis 6:18 KJV
[18] But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee. Who is the Ark? THE LORD.

wilt thou take him for a servant for ever? Yes, our flesh(redeemed) becomes his and a servant unto the master. In obedience to His Word. We are servants. Not servants to the flesh, but to GOD. But how did we become servants to God, through the failure of the flesh.

[5] Wilt thou play with him as with a bird? or wilt thou bind him(flesh) for thy maidens?

We think of the flesh as so strong. So defeating and powerful. We think of the dragon as mighty. Unbeatable. Unstoppable. The dragon is but a bird in GODS hand. Small in relation to the power of GOD...which is Jesus Christ and His redemptive blood.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

[6] Shall the companions make a banquet of him(flesh)?

part two

shall they part him(flesh) among the merchants? And the LORD said: Forgive them Father for they know not what they do.

[7] Canst thou fill his skin with barbed irons? or his head with fish spears?

[8] Lay thine hand upon him, remember the battle, do no more. [9] Behold (SEE), the hope of him(FLESH) is in vain: shall not one be cast down even at the sight of him? STOP WORKING FOR SALVATION>>SALVATION DOES NOT COME BY WORKS OF THE FLESH.

[10] None is so fierce that dare stir him(FLESH) up: who then is able to stand before me? Only those made righteous by the blood of the Lamb can stand before a Holy GOD.

[11] Who hath prevented me, that I should repay him? whatsoever is under the whole heaven is mine. >Says THE LORD

[12] I will not conceal his parts, nor his power, nor his comely proportion. The LORD will not conceal the attractiveness, or power, or comely proportion of the King of the dung, nor the flesh. It(the world) is soo very attractive and enticing with all its greed and lust. Yet, our king and saviour is described as the exact opposite:

Isaiah 53:2-3 KJV
[2] For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. [3] He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

[13] Who can discover the face of his garment? or who can come to him(FLESH) with his double bridle? THE LORD (CHRIST) can. And He DID.

[14] Who can open the doors of his face? Who can open HELL. Who can open the face of the deep? The LORD can. And HE did.

his teeth are terrible round about. Keep Watch, Satan goes about like a roaring lion, seeing whom he can devour.

[15] His scales are his pride, shut up together as with a close seal. WHO can open the seal?

[16] One is so near to another, that no air can come between them. [17] They are joined one to another, they stick together, that they cannot be sundered.

Matthew 19:6 KJV
[6] Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

Mark 10:9 KJV
[9] What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

WE belong to the LORD(Christ).

Here comes the odd workings of the LORD:

[18] By his(FLESH/ THE DRAGONS) neesings a light doth shine, and his eyes are like the eyelids of the morning.

[19] Out of his mouth (OUT OF THE deep) go burning lamps, and sparks of fire leap out. (what comes OUT of the mouth of the deep?) (Burning lamps for what? To light the dark. We are the light of the dunghill. Hell has released us by the blood of the Lamb)

[20] Out of his nostrils goeth smoke, as out of a seething pot or caldron.

[21] His breath kindleth coals, and a flame goeth out of his mouth. (Heap hot coals upon the enemies heads)? why, because ...THE LORD tells us in the next verses:

[22] In his neck remaineth strength, and sorrow is turned into joy before him.

[23] The flakes of his flesh are joined together: they are firm in themselves; they cannot be moved.

[24] His heart is as firm as a stone; yea, as hard as a piece of the nether millstone .

[25] When he(FLESH? THE WORK OF THE DRAGON) raiseth up himself, the mighty are afraid: by reason of breakings they purify themselves.

[26] The sword of him that layeth at him cannot hold: the spear, the dart, nor the habergeon. [27] He esteemeth iron as straw, and brass as rotten wood. The path of our LORD(JESUS) was laid straw.

[28] The arrow cannot make him flee: slingstones are turned with him into stubble. [29] Darts are counted as stubble: he laugheth at the shaking of a spear. [30] Sharp stones are under him: he spreadeth sharp pointed things upon the mire.

[31] He maketh the deep to boil like a pot: he maketh the sea like a pot of ointment. The deep boils like a pot, HOT causing us to flee from the flesh/ The work of the DRAGON), the sea become ointment, to bring sight to a NEED for GOD. IN the PATH of the DESTRUCTION caused by the work of the flesh...a path shine.

[32] He maketh a path to shine after him; one would think the deep to be hoary. [33] Upon earth there is not his like, who is made without fear.

[34] He beholdeth all high things : he is a king over all the children of pride.
We call good evil, and evil good. God making a covenant with flesh to reveal that the flesh can do NOTHING aside from GOD is not evil. Trials bring light to our need for GOD. Sorrow brings cries, repentance, and a turning away from the flesh and a turning and yielding to THE LORD. We call sorrow, persecution, heartache, loss, grief, mourning, lamenting...destruction of self...EVIL. GOD calls it good. We call a life not touched by loss and hardship...blessed. Show, a life riddled by loss and hardship...and you will see the hand of God. What brings about righteousness? MUCH tribulation and suffering.
Yes, Christ (GOD IN THE FLESH) hung on the cross: He defeated the flesh, the dragon, and death. NOW, he gives us NEW purified meat.
HE gives us HIS FLESH to EAT.

 

[pia]

He uses calamity, trouble or trials...however you wish to call it, even evil as they did, then yes..He does...that's the whole premise of God chastening whom He wills. Hebrews 12:5-11 is a good study, but if you would like examples we could look at many. I don't mind taking you through them. Job is a great example of God chastening His Son and with the reconciliation and redemption which was in Job at the end what a victory! It's a type or ensample of the life of Jesus Christ...and he learned obedience by the things he suffered.

Boy, I don't get it, how can people who say they believe in God, say such wicked and terrible things. God took all that upon Himself through His son, so we didn't have to bear it. You, do not BELIEVE in Christ, that is plain, saying that. Go to Him, learn from Him, and then you may be able to help others like you, who have such a twisted perspective of God Almighty and our Redeemer.

 

[face2face]

Boy, I don't get it, how can people who say they believe in God, say such wicked and terrible things. God took all that upon Himself through His son, so we didn't have to bear it. You, do not BELIEVE in Christ, that is plain, saying that. Go to Him, learn from Him, and then you may be able to help others like you, who have such a twisted perspective of God Almighty and our Redeemer.

It's just that you have more to learn about Him..that's all.

 

[face2face]

@VictoryinJesus

I really appreciated your post and hope to respond shortly. I am also hoping you will be around for a while longer. Maybe some of those hard questions and hard sayings can be further illuminated.

In the Master's Service
F2F

 

[face2face]

Part one

This is another one of those post that you won't want to read. I have followed this thread and wanted to post, but knew what I posted would either be attacked or completely ignored.

I was well prepared for such behaviour prior to starting these studies/conversations, as I have been involved in this forum on and off for over 7 years now and during that time some have impressed me with their understanding and depth of thinking, while others have chosen a less honourable path shall we say, one you allude too in your opening remarks.

It doesn't matter either way, since I am leaving the board. Call it crazy nonsense if you want. Sometimes we are too comfortable where we are at in our supposed knowledge and we don't want to approach the hard questions. Sometimes, we do not want to expand and leave our comfort zone because it may cost us: it may cost us everything; all the things we think we know...showing us...we really do not know anything.

Certainly these forums can serve a purpose for a while, sometimes a selfish one at that. I find it beneficial to exercise my mind “iron sharpens iron” but its difficult to find people who truly want to grow in the knowledge of Jesus Christ.

I acknowledge we might not agree on everything but hopefully find a point of two in common.

Speaking of Job: Who is satan? The dragon. It is simple. Satan is the King of the flesh. King of the dunghill. The dunghill Jesus Christ lifts us up out of. This world. Dung. Full of pride. The very thing lodged in the flesh and prodded by the enemy to make us weak. Paul had a thorn (not just any thorn, a STAKE) that jabbed constantly at that old Man pleading with that old Man to awaken and rear up. That is what kept Paul humble: the constant knowledge that without Christ...Paul could do nothing.

To the point.

For me this is why I have come to the conclusion the adversary in Job is a human adversary who is manifesting fleshly characteristics. Galatians 5:19,20,21

This is the LORD's words: If you have a problem with them...take it up with Him.

Addressing Job is in Blue:

Job 41:1-34 KJV [1] Canst thou draw out leviathan with an hook? or his tongue with a cord which thou lettest down? Can you draw out the Flesh Monster? can you with a cord let down that evil tongue (life and death is in the tongue)

“tie a rope round his lower jaw, and so press down his tongue” Many savage animals are represented in the Assyrian sculptures as led along by a rope attached to their mouths….When God allowed the Assyrians into Israel because of their sins they were taken out by this very means Job 42:2. Isaiah 37:29

Sobering warning not to stir the anger of the Almighty…though He always offers redemption from King flesh.

Ezekiel 29:3-5 KJV

[3] Speak, and say, Thus saith the Lord God ; Behold, I am against thee, Pharaoh king of Egypt, the great dragon that lieth in the midst of his rivers, which hath said, My river is mine own, and I have made it for myself. It is not the great dragons river. It is Gods, and GOD makes it clear. [4] But I will put hooks in thy jaws, and I will cause the fish of thy rivers to stick unto thy scales, and I will bring thee up out of the midst of thy rivers, and all the fish of thy rivers shall stick unto thy scales. [5] And I will leave thee thrown into the wilderness, thee and all the fish of thy rivers: thou shalt fall upon the open fields; (a field Christ purchased) thou shalt not be brought together, nor gathered: I have given thee for meat to the beasts of the field and to the fowls of the heaven. (Very important: I have given thee for meat for beast and fowls- the unclean)(CHRIST crucified the flesh on the cross, and gives us NEW MEAT).

Isaiah 37:28-29 KJV

[28] But I know thy abode, and thy going out, and thy coming in, and thy rage against me. [29] Because thy rage against me, and thy tumult, is come up into mine ears, therefore will I put my hook in thy nose, and my bridle in thy lips, and I will turn thee back by the way by which thou camest. The LORD--Christ--has put a hook in the nose, and bridle in the lips of the dragon and all prideful flesh; to draw out that which is against GOD.

Nothing to add but Amen

Matthew 17:25-27 KJV

[25] He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers? [26] Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free. [27] Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee. (Pay the Dunghill what is owed, the children are free.)

Supporting scripture for dunghill: 1 Samuel 2:8 "He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the Lord's, and he hath set the world upon them."

Psalm 113:7 "He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth the needy out of the dunghill;"

[3] Will he make many supplications unto thee? will he speak soft words unto thee? will the flesh make many supplications unto thee? speak soft words unto thee? oh yeah, our flesh makes supplications unto the LORD.

[4] Will he make a covenant with thee? GOD made a covenant with flesh? Oh, yes He did.

Genesis 17:13 KJV

[13] He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

And what is the covenant made? To redeem it.

Genesis 6:18 KJV

[18] But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee. Who is the Ark? THE LORD.

wilt thou take him for a servant for ever? Yes, our flesh(redeemed) becomes his and a servant unto the master. In obedience to His Word. We are servants. Not servants to the flesh, but to GOD. But how did we become servants to God, through the failure of the flesh.

[5] Wilt thou play with him as with a bird? or wilt thou bind him(flesh) for thy maidens?

We think of the flesh as so strong. So defeating and powerful. We think of the dragon as mighty. Unbeatable. Unstoppable. The dragon is but a bird in GODS hand. Small in relation to the power of GOD...which is Jesus Christ and His redemptive blood.

In these threads I have seen people grappling with a God who disciplines (scourges) his children in a manner which they think is not consistent with His love. Ironically they are not unlike Job himself with all their concerns BUT at the end of the book when God brought Job to the comfort and peace of unquestioning love and trust, God solves all Job’s problems, even before He removed Job’s afflictions.

Their removal came later, after Job had waived all his complaints, and prostrated himself in loving worship. God banished Job’s questions, not by answering them, but by totally removing them from his concern. Job was wholly satisfied that whatever God did in afflicting Job must be right, and must be rooted in love and wisdom.

God’s answer was to give no answer, but to manifest a God so great that no answer was needed.

He is infinitely above all question and accountability.

How he conquers the king of flesh even in a sinless man is to subject a perfect and pure conscience through torturous trials “a baptism of fire” as the Lord said was all the days of his life…Job like Jesus had to learn obedience through the things which he suffered and he suffered more than most.

James 5:11 Think of how we regard as blessed those who have endured (through suffering). You have heard of Job’s endurance and you have seen the Lord’s purpose, that the Lord is full of compassion and mercy.

To all “have you seen God's purpose in afflicting Job?”

Let’s not introduce a fanciful creature of darkness into the Lord’s work – rather ask wise questions and compare Scripture with Scripture.

A great lesson was taught to the adversary and a great reconciliation took place for them and us.

As @VictoryinJesus has shown there is great wisdom here.

F2F